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Posted: 8/10/2016 1:36:51 PM EDT
[#1]
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You have no idea how much heartburn it gives me to have to buy .380 AND 9mm. I've not picked up a 10mm yet because the thought of stocking 3 calibers really rustles my OCD  Y U NO 10mm? Or .45ACP? Or .38SPL/.357? Or .44SPL/Magnum? It's all so much damn fun!!!!
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Posted: 8/10/2016 1:36:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Today, I learned that humans are calibrated gelatin.
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Posted: 8/10/2016 1:38:35 PM EDT
[#3]
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Today, I learned that humans are calibrated gelatin. A lot more accurate than bowling pins and watermelons. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 1:38:58 PM EDT
[#4]
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Glock 43 is 6+1 and the shield is 6+1. If these were my options for carry, I'd take the .45 shield. 9mms big advantage is its increased capacity. I can tell from when I hit bowling pins at the range at 25 yards that the .45 is a harder hitting round than 9mm. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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.45ACP in a carry gun makes zero sense, but whatever floats your boat. Six rounds of nine or six rounds of .45, which one are u taking? Seven or eight (or more) rounds of 9X19. Glock 43 is 6+1 and the shield is 6+1. If these were my options for carry, I'd take the .45 shield. 9mms big advantage is its increased capacity. I can tell from when I hit bowling pins at the range at 25 yards that the .45 is a harder hitting round than 9mm. When people talk about being attacked in a dark alley, they don't mean cosmic bowling. Bowling pins aren't people. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 1:42:59 PM EDT
[#5]
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That's just like, your opinion, man. http://i1318.photobucket.com/albums/t656/AlamTX/Handguns/1BDBF96E-77B3-45BD-81A7-08C7268D3B36_zpstqkpeqd6.jpg Very cool, bonus points for the Crimson Trace. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 1:45:03 PM EDT
[#6]
Because of this thread I now have anxiety about being out in public carrying an xds in .45 with only three magazines on me. I am terribly afraid I will need more than 21 boolits.
 *should I actually stop by Walmart on the way home or just go home and shutter the Windows? I have 31 rounds of 10mm in the truck, will I make it? |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 1:45:52 PM EDT
[#7]
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At a point it becomes irrelevant when you're making COM hits at reasonable distances whether or not your group is as tight as possible. How many CCW'ers participate in IDPA? I would venture very, very few. Even in GD, where the number of people who shoot competitively is going to be very high among gun owners, I would bet less than half participate. Then of that small subset, how many have a dedicated race gun, and how many have a dedicated race gun they shoot more than their CCW piece, and how many dedicated race guns can be reasonably scaled into a CCW? You're welcome to call my argument stupid all you want, but bringing up incredibly narrow windows that rely entirely on chance and anecdote doesn't really reinforce your positions well at all. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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There are times that no matter how much you practice, one platform seems to excel in your hands versus another. Are you an IPSIC or IDPA shooter? Are you shooting a bunch of rounds in a competitive environment? Maybe your carry gun is as close to your race gun as you can get because thats what you shoot all the time? Lots of reasons why there are many different ways to skin a cat, and your argument is stupid I am saying all of this as a 9mm guy too  At a point it becomes irrelevant when you're making COM hits at reasonable distances whether or not your group is as tight as possible. How many CCW'ers participate in IDPA? I would venture very, very few. Even in GD, where the number of people who shoot competitively is going to be very high among gun owners, I would bet less than half participate. Then of that small subset, how many have a dedicated race gun, and how many have a dedicated race gun they shoot more than their CCW piece, and how many dedicated race guns can be reasonably scaled into a CCW? You're welcome to call my argument stupid all you want, but bringing up incredibly narrow windows that rely entirely on chance and anecdote doesn't really reinforce your positions well at all. So your telling me that the important part is making COM hits? I thought the only thing that mattered was the caliber? |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 1:47:48 PM EDT
[#8]
there's a little arfcom love in there near the end.... 
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Posted: 8/10/2016 1:48:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because of this thread I now have anxiety about being out in public carrying an xds in .45 with only three magazines on me. I am terribly afraid I will need more than 21 boolits. *should I actually stop by Walmart on the way home or just go home and shutter the Windows? I have 31 rounds of 10mm in the truck, will I make it?  |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 1:52:48 PM EDT
[#10]
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The G43 is smaller than the Shield. Not a valid comparison. Capacity is a huge advantage, since there's no lethality increase from 9mm to 45, having more rounds means more chances to make a stop. Bowling pins aren't humans, and "hitting harder" isn't significant when it comes to calibrated tests, like gelatin, where the "harder hitting" 45 has the same performance as a quality 9mm. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Glock 43 is 6+1 and the shield is 6+1. If these were my options for carry, I'd take the .45 shield. 9mms big advantage is its increased capacity. I can tell from when I hit bowling pins at the range at 25 yards that the .45 is a harder hitting round than 9mm. The G43 is smaller than the Shield. Not a valid comparison. Capacity is a huge advantage, since there's no lethality increase from 9mm to 45, having more rounds means more chances to make a stop. Bowling pins aren't humans, and "hitting harder" isn't significant when it comes to calibrated tests, like gelatin, where the "harder hitting" 45 has the same performance as a quality 9mm. Youre beating around the bush with my question. I want to know if you have a gun that holds the same amount of bullets, are u gonna take a .45 or a 9mm? So you want to hit the bad guy softer? Maybe that extra force will help going through a heavy coat? FWIW I'm not a die hard .45 fan. 9mm has a lot of advantages. But when you take the capacity away as an option, I at least want the extra power. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 1:59:05 PM EDT
[#11]
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Youre beating around the bush with my question. I want to know if you have a gun that holds the same amount of bullets, are u gonna take a .45 or a 9mm? .338 Lapua Magnum. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 2:02:35 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because of this thread I now have anxiety about being out in public carrying an xds in .45 with only three magazines on me. I am terribly afraid I will need more than 21 boolits. *should I actually stop by Walmart on the way home or just go home and shutter the Windows? I have 31 rounds of 10mm in the truck, will I make it? You are truly screwed.  The .45 is a worthless antique and the legacy bullets just bounce off everything. The only hope you have is making it to a gun store if the 31 rounds of 10mm will get you there and buy a 9mm. Once you gots a 9 you'll be invincible and all will be well. Good luck man! |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 2:08:42 PM EDT
[#13]
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I want one. I wouldn't mind one, but I already have a shield with a ton of custom work done to it that pretty much makes it CCW nirvana for me. I won't bag on anyone that wants a .45 in a carry gun, but for my uses I'd rather have a 9mm or .380. All handguns are weak from a ballistics standpoint, a hit from pretty much any centerfire caliber will yield the same results-I'd rather have the extra round and controllability. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 2:08:59 PM EDT
[#14]
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Because of this thread I now have anxiety about being out in public carrying an xds in .45 with only three magazines on me. I am terribly afraid I will need more than 21 boolits.
*should I actually stop by Walmart on the way home or just go home and shutter the Windows? I have 31 rounds of 10mm in the truck, will I make it? You only feel that way because you are struggling with the difference between a relative argument and absolute argument. Saying that one thing is "better" is not the same as saying the thing being compared to is "bad". Feel better now? |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 2:20:31 PM EDT
[#15]
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Youre beating around the bush with my question. I want to know if you have a gun that holds the same amount of bullets, are u gonna take a .45 or a 9mm? So you want to hit the bad guy softer? Maybe that extra force will help going through a heavy coat? FWIW I'm not a die hard .45 fan. 9mm has a lot of advantages. But when you take the capacity away as an option, I at least want the extra power. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Glock 43 is 6+1 and the shield is 6+1. If these were my options for carry, I'd take the .45 shield. 9mms big advantage is its increased capacity. I can tell from when I hit bowling pins at the range at 25 yards that the .45 is a harder hitting round than 9mm. The G43 is smaller than the Shield. Not a valid comparison. Capacity is a huge advantage, since there's no lethality increase from 9mm to 45, having more rounds means more chances to make a stop. Bowling pins aren't humans, and "hitting harder" isn't significant when it comes to calibrated tests, like gelatin, where the "harder hitting" 45 has the same performance as a quality 9mm. Youre beating around the bush with my question. I want to know if you have a gun that holds the same amount of bullets, are u gonna take a .45 or a 9mm? So you want to hit the bad guy softer? Maybe that extra force will help going through a heavy coat? FWIW I'm not a die hard .45 fan. 9mm has a lot of advantages. But when you take the capacity away as an option, I at least want the extra power. Why are you taking away capacity as an option? How does that hypothetical mirror reality? The only reason you're presenting that unrealistic scenario is to score a fictitious point. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 2:26:12 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are you taking away capacity as an option? How does that hypothetical mirror reality? The only reason you're presenting that unrealistic scenario is to score a fictitious point. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Glock 43 is 6+1 and the shield is 6+1. If these were my options for carry, I'd take the .45 shield. 9mms big advantage is its increased capacity. I can tell from when I hit bowling pins at the range at 25 yards that the .45 is a harder hitting round than 9mm. The G43 is smaller than the Shield. Not a valid comparison. Capacity is a huge advantage, since there's no lethality increase from 9mm to 45, having more rounds means more chances to make a stop. Bowling pins aren't humans, and "hitting harder" isn't significant when it comes to calibrated tests, like gelatin, where the "harder hitting" 45 has the same performance as a quality 9mm. Youre beating around the bush with my question. I want to know if you have a gun that holds the same amount of bullets, are u gonna take a .45 or a 9mm? So you want to hit the bad guy softer? Maybe that extra force will help going through a heavy coat? FWIW I'm not a die hard .45 fan. 9mm has a lot of advantages. But when you take the capacity away as an option, I at least want the extra power. Why are you taking away capacity as an option? How does that hypothetical mirror reality? The only reason you're presenting that unrealistic scenario is to score a fictitious point. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 2:35:38 PM EDT
[#17]
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Lots of people live in states that have arbitrary magazine limits. Soon, we may have Federal mag limits. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Glock 43 is 6+1 and the shield is 6+1. If these were my options for carry, I'd take the .45 shield. 9mms big advantage is its increased capacity. I can tell from when I hit bowling pins at the range at 25 yards that the .45 is a harder hitting round than 9mm. The G43 is smaller than the Shield. Not a valid comparison. Capacity is a huge advantage, since there's no lethality increase from 9mm to 45, having more rounds means more chances to make a stop. Bowling pins aren't humans, and "hitting harder" isn't significant when it comes to calibrated tests, like gelatin, where the "harder hitting" 45 has the same performance as a quality 9mm. Youre beating around the bush with my question. I want to know if you have a gun that holds the same amount of bullets, are u gonna take a .45 or a 9mm? So you want to hit the bad guy softer? Maybe that extra force will help going through a heavy coat? FWIW I'm not a die hard .45 fan. 9mm has a lot of advantages. But when you take the capacity away as an option, I at least want the extra power. Why are you taking away capacity as an option? How does that hypothetical mirror reality? The only reason you're presenting that unrealistic scenario is to score a fictitious point. Fine. Then I want 7 rounds of a ultra light revolver RPG. Also, from some freak genetic condition I'm totally ripped with no effort expended. And any defensive scenario occurs with the bad guy is outside arming distance and there is no wind. It's really damn easy to win points when you dictate hypotheticals. ETA: And in my scenario, there have been laws passed that make .45acp HP illegal, and ONLY .45acp HP. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 2:41:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're practically dead already. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Because of this thread I now have anxiety about being out in public carrying an xds in .45 with only three magazines on me. I am terribly afraid I will need more than 21 boolits. *should I actually stop by Walmart on the way home or just go home and shutter the Windows? I have 31 rounds of 10mm in the truck, will I make it?
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Posted: 8/10/2016 2:44:26 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You only feel that way because you are struggling with the difference between a relative argument and absolute argument. Saying that one thing is "better" is not the same as saying the thing being compared to is "bad". Feel better now? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Because of this thread I now have anxiety about being out in public carrying an xds in .45 with only three magazines on me. I am terribly afraid I will need more than 21 boolits. *should I actually stop by Walmart on the way home or just go home and shutter the Windows? I have 31 rounds of 10mm in the truck, will I make it? You only feel that way because you are struggling with the difference between a relative argument and absolute argument. Saying that one thing is "better" is not the same as saying the thing being compared to is "bad". Feel better now? Carry what you want. Just carry. People have different reasons. I'm all about Liberty. Maybe conjure up stuff about somebody that matches the profile you have mistakenly projected on me?? Reading is fundamental!!! Bro. *or maybe I completely misunderstood you? I dunno |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 2:45:41 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Youre beating around the bush with my question. I want to know if you have a gun that holds the same amount of bullets, are u gonna take a .45 or a 9mm? So you want to hit the bad guy softer? Maybe that extra force will help going through a heavy coat? FWIW I'm not a die hard .45 fan. 9mm has a lot of advantages. But when you take the capacity away as an option, I at least want the extra power. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Glock 43 is 6+1 and the shield is 6+1. If these were my options for carry, I'd take the .45 shield. 9mms big advantage is its increased capacity. I can tell from when I hit bowling pins at the range at 25 yards that the .45 is a harder hitting round than 9mm. The G43 is smaller than the Shield. Not a valid comparison. Capacity is a huge advantage, since there's no lethality increase from 9mm to 45, having more rounds means more chances to make a stop. Bowling pins aren't humans, and "hitting harder" isn't significant when it comes to calibrated tests, like gelatin, where the "harder hitting" 45 has the same performance as a quality 9mm. Youre beating around the bush with my question. I want to know if you have a gun that holds the same amount of bullets, are u gonna take a .45 or a 9mm? So you want to hit the bad guy softer? Maybe that extra force will help going through a heavy coat? FWIW I'm not a die hard .45 fan. 9mm has a lot of advantages. But when you take the capacity away as an option, I at least want the extra power.
I take it you really don't understand ballistics. Riddle me this, why can a .45ACP be stopped with a Level 1 NIJ rated vest; but it takes a minimum of a level 2A to stop a low velocity 9mm, or a level 2 to stop a NATO 9mm FMJ? |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 2:45:52 PM EDT
[#21]
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You must not have read any of posts? You are pointing the wrong finger. Carry what you want. Just carry. People have different reasons. I'm all about Liberty. Maybe conjure up stuff about somebody that matches the profile you have mistakenly projected on me?? Reading is fundamental!!! Bro. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Because of this thread I now have anxiety about being out in public carrying an xds in .45 with only three magazines on me. I am terribly afraid I will need more than 21 boolits.
*should I actually stop by Walmart on the way home or just go home and shutter the Windows? I have 31 rounds of 10mm in the truck, will I make it? You only feel that way because you are struggling with the difference between a relative argument and absolute argument. Saying that one thing is "better" is not the same as saying the thing being compared to is "bad". Feel better now? Carry what you want. Just carry. People have different reasons. I'm all about Liberty. Maybe conjure up stuff about somebody that matches the profile you have mistakenly projected on me?? Reading is fundamental!!! Bro. None of this discussion is about liberty or the concept of carrying as a whole. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 2:46:40 PM EDT
[#22]
I just came here to see pictures, and I am disappoint.
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Posted: 8/10/2016 2:47:12 PM EDT
[#23]
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6+1 Quote HistoryQuoted:
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What's the capacity? 6+1 Better than I thought it would be... I'll pass. I had a .40 Shield and the .40 was a little too much for that little frame. Hot defense loads would flex the frame and the mag would drop out. I can only assume this has been fixed by now but still if I ever buy another Shield it will be 9mm. But now the Grok 43 is out so I will buy that instead. 
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Posted: 8/10/2016 2:47:40 PM EDT
[#24]
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Glock 43 is 6+1 and the shield is 6+1. If these were my options for carry, I'd take the .45 shield. 9mms big advantage is its increased capacity. I can tell from when I hit bowling pins at the range at 25 yards that the .45 is a harder hitting round than 9mm. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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.45ACP in a carry gun makes zero sense, but whatever floats your boat. Six rounds of nine or six rounds of .45, which one are u taking? Seven or eight (or more) rounds of 9X19. Glock 43 is 6+1 and the shield is 6+1. If these were my options for carry, I'd take the .45 shield. 9mms big advantage is its increased capacity. I can tell from when I hit bowling pins at the range at 25 yards that the .45 is a harder hitting round than 9mm. 1. G43 is smaller than a Shield 2. My 9mm Shield is 9+1 3. Humans aren't bowling pins and bowling pins aren't humans. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 2:49:28 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: None of this discussion is about liberty or the concept of carrying as a whole. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Because of this thread I now have anxiety about being out in public carrying an xds in .45 with only three magazines on me. I am terribly afraid I will need more than 21 boolits. *should I actually stop by Walmart on the way home or just go home and shutter the Windows? I have 31 rounds of 10mm in the truck, will I make it? You only feel that way because you are struggling with the difference between a relative argument and absolute argument. Saying that one thing is "better" is not the same as saying the thing being compared to is "bad". Feel better now? Carry what you want. Just carry. People have different reasons. I'm all about Liberty. Maybe conjure up stuff about somebody that matches the profile you have mistakenly projected on me?? Reading is fundamental!!! Bro. None of this discussion is about liberty or the concept of carrying as a whole. It's about know it all pretending to have it all under control telling people they are carrying the wrong caliber. When they don't have a clue what is right or wrong for mystery man or woman on the internets??!! The Liberty part comes in where I get to carry what I damn well please without Mo, Larry, or Curly telling me why and how my caliber is wrong. Do you grasp that? We can get MS Paint involved if necessary? |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 2:53:23 PM EDT
[#26]
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The Liberty part comes in where I get to carry what I damn well please without Mo, Larry, or Curly telling me why and how my caliber is wrong. Do you grasp that? We can get MS Paint involved if necessary? This part you have (assuming you live in a a halfway-free state). This part you have no reasonable expectation of in a public forum.... why in the hell would you think otherwise? Don't want to hear disagreement with your opinions? Don't share them. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 2:56:08 PM EDT
[#27]
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Ya think??? Nice job, Carnac couldn't have said it better. It's about know it all pretending to have it all under control telling people they are carrying the wrong caliber. When they don't have a clue what is right or wrong for mystery man or woman on the internets??!! The Liberty part comes in where I get to carry what I damn well please without Mo, Larry, or Curly telling me why and how my caliber is wrong. Do you grasp that? We can get MS Paint involved if necessary? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Because of this thread I now have anxiety about being out in public carrying an xds in .45 with only three magazines on me. I am terribly afraid I will need more than 21 boolits.
*should I actually stop by Walmart on the way home or just go home and shutter the Windows? I have 31 rounds of 10mm in the truck, will I make it? You only feel that way because you are struggling with the difference between a relative argument and absolute argument. Saying that one thing is "better" is not the same as saying the thing being compared to is "bad". Feel better now? Carry what you want. Just carry. People have different reasons. I'm all about Liberty. Maybe conjure up stuff about somebody that matches the profile you have mistakenly projected on me?? Reading is fundamental!!! Bro. None of this discussion is about liberty or the concept of carrying as a whole. It's about know it all pretending to have it all under control telling people they are carrying the wrong caliber. When they don't have a clue what is right or wrong for mystery man or woman on the internets??!! The Liberty part comes in where I get to carry what I damn well please without Mo, Larry, or Curly telling me why and how my caliber is wrong. Do you grasp that? We can get MS Paint involved if necessary? Liberty is when other people don't get to tell you you're wrong. Got it. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 3:05:24 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Liberty is when other people don't get to tell you you're wrong. Got it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You only feel that way because you are struggling with the difference between a relative argument and absolute argument. Saying that one thing is "better" is not the same as saying the thing being compared to is "bad". Feel better now? Carry what you want. Just carry. People have different reasons. I'm all about Liberty. Maybe conjure up stuff about somebody that matches the profile you have mistakenly projected on me?? Reading is fundamental!!! Bro. None of this discussion is about liberty or the concept of carrying as a whole. It's about know it all pretending to have it all under control telling people they are carrying the wrong caliber. When they don't have a clue what is right or wrong for mystery man or woman on the internets??!! The Liberty part comes in where I get to carry what I damn well please without Mo, Larry, or Curly telling me why and how my caliber is wrong. Do you grasp that? We can get MS Paint involved if necessary? Liberty is when other people don't get to tell you you're wrong. Got it. *yea liberty is a about a bit more than that. but getting to shoot whatever caliber i want is a small portion of it. liberty is also freedom to justify your pet caliber or unjustify your non pet caliber how you see fit on the internet. there was a much broader context intended but i did actually get up the courage to go by walmart, so i really was walking and chewing gum. hard to believe i could do all three in fear because i was only wearing 21 boolits. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 3:08:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Sort of want. I've survived many summers carrying a 5 shot snubby, so a 7 shot 45 would be a step up in firepower. I am invested in .357 Mag and .45 acp. I don't do 9 or 40.
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Posted: 8/10/2016 3:20:15 PM EDT
[#30]
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Good. Glad you got it. It was however poorly stated as I walked and chewed gum while posting from my iPhone. But its all good as long as you got it.
*yea liberty is a about a bit more than that. but getting to shoot whatever caliber i want is a small portion of it. liberty is also freedom to justify your pet caliber or unjustify your non pet caliber how you see fit on the internet. there was a much broader context intended but i did actually get up the courage to go by walmart, so i really was walking and chewing gum. hard to believe i could do all three in fear because i was only wearing 21 boolits. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You must not have read any of posts? You are pointing the wrong finger. Carry what you want. Just carry. People have different reasons. I'm all about Liberty. Maybe conjure up stuff about somebody that matches the profile you have mistakenly projected on me?? Reading is fundamental!!! Bro. None of this discussion is about liberty or the concept of carrying as a whole. It's about know it all pretending to have it all under control telling people they are carrying the wrong caliber. When they don't have a clue what is right or wrong for mystery man or woman on the internets??!! The Liberty part comes in where I get to carry what I damn well please without Mo, Larry, or Curly telling me why and how my caliber is wrong. Do you grasp that? We can get MS Paint involved if necessary? Liberty is when other people don't get to tell you you're wrong. Got it.
*yea liberty is a about a bit more than that. but getting to shoot whatever caliber i want is a small portion of it. liberty is also freedom to justify your pet caliber or unjustify your non pet caliber how you see fit on the internet. there was a much broader context intended but i did actually get up the courage to go by walmart, so i really was walking and chewing gum. hard to believe i could do all three in fear because i was only wearing 21 boolits. You might make it if you started with 20 in the gun. Git mor 
But no one is saying you aren't allowed to do any of those things. They're just saying you're wrong. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 3:23:41 PM EDT
[#31]
Meh....my ccw capacity is 8x .357....M&P factory triggers are atrocious. Pass!
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Posted: 8/10/2016 3:26:31 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You might make it if you started with 20 in the gun. Git mor http://www.midwestgunworks.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/MGCZ7519AFC.jpg But no one is saying you aren't allowed to do any of those things. They're just saying you're wrong.----by the way I am not! Emphatically not! And you have no way of proving or disproving what is right for me. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: None of this discussion is about liberty or the concept of carrying as a whole. It's about know it all pretending to have it all under control telling people they are carrying the wrong caliber. When they don't have a clue what is right or wrong for mystery man or woman on the internets??!! The Liberty part comes in where I get to carry what I damn well please without Mo, Larry, or Curly telling me why and how my caliber is wrong. Do you grasp that? We can get MS Paint involved if necessary? Liberty is when other people don't get to tell you you're wrong. Got it. *yea liberty is a about a bit more than that. but getting to shoot whatever caliber i want is a small portion of it. liberty is also freedom to justify your pet caliber or unjustify your non pet caliber how you see fit on the internet. there was a much broader context intended but i did actually get up the courage to go by walmart, so i really was walking and chewing gum. hard to believe i could do all three in fear because i was only wearing 21 boolits. You might make it if you started with 20 in the gun. Git mor http://www.midwestgunworks.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/MGCZ7519AFC.jpg But no one is saying you aren't allowed to do any of those things. They're just saying you're wrong.----by the way I am not! Emphatically not! And you have no way of proving or disproving what is right for me. I would not feel bad about carrying 9mm. I have. I usually carry .45 on me. I have 10mm within reach a whole lot. And then when drama dusts up, I keep some 5.56 fairly handy. Obviously not while strolling through walmart blowing bubbles, though. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 3:28:17 PM EDT
[#33]
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Why are you taking away capacity as an option? How does that hypothetical mirror reality? The only reason you're presenting that unrealistic scenario is to score a fictitious point. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Glock 43 is 6+1 and the shield is 6+1. If these were my options for carry, I'd take the .45 shield. 9mms big advantage is its increased capacity. I can tell from when I hit bowling pins at the range at 25 yards that the .45 is a harder hitting round than 9mm. The G43 is smaller than the Shield. Not a valid comparison. Capacity is a huge advantage, since there's no lethality increase from 9mm to 45, having more rounds means more chances to make a stop. Bowling pins aren't humans, and "hitting harder" isn't significant when it comes to calibrated tests, like gelatin, where the "harder hitting" 45 has the same performance as a quality 9mm. Youre beating around the bush with my question. I want to know if you have a gun that holds the same amount of bullets, are u gonna take a .45 or a 9mm? So you want to hit the bad guy softer? Maybe that extra force will help going through a heavy coat? FWIW I'm not a die hard .45 fan. 9mm has a lot of advantages. But when you take the capacity away as an option, I at least want the extra power. Why are you taking away capacity as an option? How does that hypothetical mirror reality? The only reason you're presenting that unrealistic scenario is to score a fictitious point. LOL! I thought we were talking about subcompact, single stack pistols? I would take a .45 shield with one less round over a 9mm shield, or similar sized single stack 9mm. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 3:40:59 PM EDT
[#34]
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I take it you really don't understand ballistics. Riddle me this, why can a .45ACP be stopped with a Level 1 NIJ rated vest; but it takes a minimum of a level 2A to stop a low velocity 9mm, or a level 2 to stop a NATO 9mm FMJ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Glock 43 is 6+1 and the shield is 6+1. If these were my options for carry, I'd take the .45 shield. 9mms big advantage is its increased capacity. I can tell from when I hit bowling pins at the range at 25 yards that the .45 is a harder hitting round than 9mm. The G43 is smaller than the Shield. Not a valid comparison. Capacity is a huge advantage, since there's no lethality increase from 9mm to 45, having more rounds means more chances to make a stop. Bowling pins aren't humans, and "hitting harder" isn't significant when it comes to calibrated tests, like gelatin, where the "harder hitting" 45 has the same performance as a quality 9mm. Youre beating around the bush with my question. I want to know if you have a gun that holds the same amount of bullets, are u gonna take a .45 or a 9mm? So you want to hit the bad guy softer? Maybe that extra force will help going through a heavy coat? FWIW I'm not a die hard .45 fan. 9mm has a lot of advantages. But when you take the capacity away as an option, I at least want the extra power.
I take it you really don't understand ballistics. Riddle me this, why can a .45ACP be stopped with a Level 1 NIJ rated vest; but it takes a minimum of a level 2A to stop a low velocity 9mm, or a level 2 to stop a NATO 9mm FMJ? I know 9mm fmj has good penetration, but I don't carry fmj for defense. Two months ago there was a shooting with NYPD where a guys carHart jacket had a few 9mm ammo fail to penetrate the jacket. While this was probably an ammo problem, it still happend. Again, I like 9mm. I like the capacity and low recoil. But if we're talking single stack subcompact pistols for like ease of concealment or summer carry or whatever, I like that s&w came out with a small single stack .45 that is comparable with the other single stack 9mm Really don't see what the problem is. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 3:58:52 PM EDT
[#35]
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I am certainly not AGAINST more, both, 9 or 45(10 aint bad either). Carry what you can. Carry what you are comfortable with. There are pluses and minuses to various calibers. I would not feel bad about carrying 9mm. I have. I usually carry .45 on me. I have 10mm within reach a whole lot. And then when drama dusts up, I keep some 5.56 fairly handy. Obviously not while strolling through walmart blowing bubbles, though.
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Liberty is when other people don't get to tell you you're wrong. Got it.
*yea liberty is a about a bit more than that. but getting to shoot whatever caliber i want is a small portion of it. liberty is also freedom to justify your pet caliber or unjustify your non pet caliber how you see fit on the internet. there was a much broader context intended but i did actually get up the courage to go by walmart, so i really was walking and chewing gum. hard to believe i could do all three in fear because i was only wearing 21 boolits. You might make it if you started with 20 in the gun. Git mor http://www.midwestgunworks.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/MGCZ7519AFC.jpg But no one is saying you aren't allowed to do any of those things. They're just saying you're wrong.----by the way I am not! Emphatically not! And you have no way of proving or disproving what is right for me. I would not feel bad about carrying 9mm. I have. I usually carry .45 on me. I have 10mm within reach a whole lot. And then when drama dusts up, I keep some 5.56 fairly handy. Obviously not while strolling through walmart blowing bubbles, though.
Of course what I'm saying is an opinion. I hold this opinion because I believe it's backed up by fact. Specifically that all of the standard handgun calibers are terrible and shot placement is the vital criteria for getting a stop. And that anyone can become comfortable with a 9mm with more capacity than a same sized .45. And I'm not saying anyone is screwed for carrying .45. I would feel comfortable with 21 rounds of .45, but that's not what i carry because I believe there are better options. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 4:00:23 PM EDT
[#36]
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Not wrong. The .45ACP is a great cartridge, fun as shit at the range, super cool suppressed. But in a carry gun you're either adding size/weight or giving up capacity (or both) in exchange for nothing useful. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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.45ACP in a carry gun makes zero sense, but whatever floats your boat. lol.. wrong Not wrong. The .45ACP is a great cartridge, fun as shit at the range, super cool suppressed. But in a carry gun you're either adding size/weight or giving up capacity (or both) in exchange for nothing useful.
they gain might be minimal...but sometimes even 5% matters... |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 4:04:37 PM EDT
[#37]
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45 Shield vs 9 shield vs 40 shield 20.5 oz vs 19 vs 19 3.3" vs 3.1 vs 3.1 Barrel 6.45" OAL vs 6.1 vs 6.1 .99" Width vs. .95 vs .95 4.88" Height vs. 4.6 vs 4.6 6+1 vs 7+1 vs 6+1 capacity In short, its heavier, longer, wider, taller and holds less rounds than the 9mm? Also, are those empty or full weights? |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 4:11:37 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course what I'm saying is an opinion. I hold this opinion because I believe it's backed up by fact. Specifically that all of the standard handgun calibers are terrible and shot placement is the vital criteria for getting a stop. And that anyone can become comfortable with a 9mm with more capacity than a same sized .45. And I'm not saying anyone is screwed for carrying .45. I would feel comfortable with 21 rounds of .45, but that's not what i carry because I believe there are better options. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Liberty is when other people don't get to tell you you're wrong. Got it. *yea liberty is a about a bit more than that. but getting to shoot whatever caliber i want is a small portion of it. liberty is also freedom to justify your pet caliber or unjustify your non pet caliber how you see fit on the internet. there was a much broader context intended but i did actually get up the courage to go by walmart, so i really was walking and chewing gum. hard to believe i could do all three in fear because i was only wearing 21 boolits. You might make it if you started with 20 in the gun. Git mor http://www.midwestgunworks.com/mm5/graphics/00000001/MGCZ7519AFC.jpg But no one is saying you aren't allowed to do any of those things. They're just saying you're wrong.----by the way I am not! Emphatically not! And you have no way of proving or disproving what is right for me. I would not feel bad about carrying 9mm. I have. I usually carry .45 on me. I have 10mm within reach a whole lot. And then when drama dusts up, I keep some 5.56 fairly handy. Obviously not while strolling through walmart blowing bubbles, though. Of course what I'm saying is an opinion. I hold this opinion because I believe it's backed up by fact. Specifically that all of the standard handgun calibers are terrible and shot placement is the vital criteria for getting a stop. And that anyone can become comfortable with a 9mm with more capacity than a same sized .45. And I'm not saying anyone is screwed for carrying .45. I would feel comfortable with 21 rounds of .45, but that's not what i carry because I believe there are better options. Carry what you want. I'll pass on 380 unless that is all there is, since I don't own one that would not be the case. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 4:19:13 PM EDT
[#39]
ARFCOM "herd mentality" says 9mm rules and .45acp sucks.
Cause nobody ever gets in a gunfight in Mom's basement.
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Posted: 8/10/2016 4:23:26 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not wrong. The .45ACP is a great cartridge, fun as shit at the range, super cool suppressed. But in a carry gun you're either adding size/weight or giving up capacity (or both) in exchange for nothing useful. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: .45ACP in a carry gun makes zero sense, but whatever floats your boat. lol.. wrong Not wrong. The .45ACP is a great cartridge, fun as shit at the range, super cool suppressed. But in a carry gun you're either adding size/weight or giving up capacity (or both) in exchange for nothing useful. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 5:31:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ARFCOM "herd mentality" says 9mm rules and .45acp sucks. Cause nobody ever gets in a gunfight in Mom's basement. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 5:35:02 PM EDT
[#42]
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I know 9mm fmj has good penetration, but I don't carry fmj for defense. Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know 9mm fmj has good penetration, but I don't carry fmj for defense. Neither does any other reasonable person. But the idea that a fat slow moving bullet will penetrate better than a narrower faster moving projectile is just luicrous. Two months ago there was a shooting with NYPD where a guys carHart jacket had a few 9mm ammo fail to penetrate the jacket. While this was probably an ammo problem, it still happend.
Some bullet didn't get enough of a powder charge at the factory, a one in a billion chance, and you use that as justification> You realize the exact same problem can happen to ANY round in existence? That's a manufacturing issue not a round issue.
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Posted: 8/10/2016 5:38:40 PM EDT
[#43]
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.45ACP in a carry gun makes zero sense, but whatever floats your boat. My G36 says you are wrong. 
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Posted: 8/10/2016 8:41:23 PM EDT
[#44]
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My G36 says you are wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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.45ACP in a carry gun makes zero sense, but whatever floats your boat. My G36 says you are wrong. So does my full size 1911. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 8:45:44 PM EDT
[#45]
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they gain might be minimal...but sometimes even 5% matters... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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.45ACP in a carry gun makes zero sense, but whatever floats your boat. lol.. wrong Not wrong. The .45ACP is a great cartridge, fun as shit at the range, super cool suppressed. But in a carry gun you're either adding size/weight or giving up capacity (or both) in exchange for nothing useful.
they gain might be minimal...but sometimes even 5% matters... True, but IMHO, the odds of an extra shot before the slide locks back "mattering" are better than the slightly bigger bullet if something shitty happens. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 8:48:06 PM EDT
[#46]
Jeez, people are very sensitive about their caliber choices.
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Posted: 8/10/2016 8:52:40 PM EDT
[#47]
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I want one. A'Yup. |
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Posted: 8/10/2016 8:57:04 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So does my full size 1911. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: .45ACP in a carry gun makes zero sense, but whatever floats your boat. My G36 says you are wrong. So does my full size 1911. No it doesn't. Half the capacity at twice the weight does not make sense. If you like it that's cool though. |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 10:50:29 AM EDT
[#49]
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No it doesn't. Half the capacity at twice the weight does not make sense. If you like it that's cool though. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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.45ACP in a carry gun makes zero sense, but whatever floats your boat. My G36 says you are wrong. So does my full size 1911. No it doesn't. Half the capacity at twice the weight does not make sense. If you like it that's cool though. Its 8+1 with a spare mag. And it carries more comfortably than my g17. I agtee you give up some rounds to certain other guns but not a g36 or this shield. |
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Posted: 8/11/2016 10:53:46 AM EDT
[#50]
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Its 8+1 with a spare mag. And it carries more comfortably than my g17. I artee you give up some rounds to certain other guns but not a g36 or this shield. The same gun would be 10+1 in 9mm... with the same 1 spare mag you're looking at 21 versus 17... or almost 25% moar chances to stop the fight.
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