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Posted: 3/30/2023 11:39:55 AM EST
[#1]
I actually regret all the money I spent on the old Surefire with the 123 batteries. I had a Streamlight Scorpion too. I spent a ton on 123 batteries too.
Now I have this little rechargeable flashlight in my shirt pocket that makes them look like shit. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 11:43:10 AM EST
[#2]
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Posted: 3/30/2023 11:48:18 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lumens suck. It includes frequencies that humans cannot see. Candelas measure what humans can see. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 11:56:18 AM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Double the lumens but still pretty dim. I wish I would have kept one or two just for nostalgia https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/132893/Surefire_png-2763482.JPG |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 12:01:22 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I actually regret all the money I spent on the old Surefire with the 123 batteries. I had a Streamlight Scorpion too. I spent a ton on 123 batteries too. Now I have this little rechargeable flashlight in my shirt pocket that makes them look like shit. I use these in my 3 cell SF lights, which are now running a 9-12 volt Malkoff LED: Efest 16340 V2 IMR 700mAh - Button Top They can't be used with a factory 3 volt SF LED light, because they produce as much as 4.2vdc fresh off the charger. They also won't fit inside my old SF A2 Aviator (a too wide battery -vs- a too narrow body). |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 12:22:27 PM EST
[#6]
I had an early SF light for my Beretta 92 and its dedicated safariland holster that was cumbersome as a frying pan. I think i looked like Robocop to some of my colleagues. It didn't last, but i still have them both. I used a maglite fornaroundnthe house up until few months ago, then i bought a 5$ USB rechargable handheld light that works way Better.
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Posted: 3/30/2023 12:59:18 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I actually regret all the money I spent on the old Surefire with the 123 batteries. I had a Streamlight Scorpion too. I spent a ton on 123 batteries too. Now I have this little rechargeable flashlight in my shirt pocket that makes them look like shit. I don't regret it because at the time they were great. But I get it, I wish I could get some of that money back to spend on new tech. That's the case with most tech though I'd say. I bought a bunch of 6Px Pros (LED) maybe 6-8 years ago when they had some sales. I loved those things, and they're still good lights. Used to use them pretty much daily. Now I rarely use them. On the plus side, I'm using a tiny fraction of the CR123s that I used to. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:13:36 PM EST
[#8]
The first weapon light I ever used was a stream light scorpion in a ring mount, up until that point I didn't even bother as they sucked. Now, that stream light is a just in case, door pocket of the off road rig kinda light.
I still have a 3D maglite too, though it's been converted to LEDs with battery adapters to utilize rechargeable AAs instead of shit, heavy Ds. It's heavy enough to be an effective bludgeoning tool even with the weight reduction and a massive increase in output, somewhere around 500 lumens or so, so "modern." Was compelled to rebuild it as it is a lower SN model from the 80s, new rubber button, lense, bulb and a clean/grease and she is better than new with all the old patina. Love it. EDC is 1K, which is plenty. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:21:25 PM EST
[#9]
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:22:48 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hell, mine's sitting on the end table next to my recliner. It's what I use at night to light up possums, 'coons, stray cats and 'dillos before I shoot them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lol. Somewhere in the house, I still have Surefire's 1st ever foray into LEDs (IIRC); the KL1 LED module. 15 lumens  Then again, I'm old enough to have carried the original Maglite Solitaire, when those first came out. By the time LED lights were common, I remember a joke on Candlepowerforums about the Solitaire, "Oh those. About as bright as a lit match, but with less runtime"  Hell, mine's sitting on the end table next to my recliner. It's what I use at night to light up possums, 'coons, stray cats and 'dillos before I shoot them.  Attached File My backyard, "What's that noise?" light, is an Imalent DX80 (ANSI confirmed 32,000 lumens). It's bright enough, and the spill is so wide, it lights up the entire ~40 yard wide backyard to the treeline ~100 yards away, without needing to sweep the light When I first got it, after playing around with it for a bit, I got back in the SUV, and immediately thought one of the HID headlights and high beams must've burned out. Nope. After getting used to the DX80, the HID headlights and high beams just appeared really dim in comparison. The WMLs are an assortment of 500 - 1000+ lumens. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:23:37 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Heck ya! I’ve been a flashoholic for my whole life. I had an HDS light that put out 60. I loved that thing. Yup. Tough little buggers, and again, awesome interface. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:23:56 PM EST
[#12]
Quote History |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:26:21 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I use this almost daily. It is on my work bench and I use it working on things. It is strange it throws a square beam almost. Yeah, the Surefire TIR lens design at that time picked up the shape of the emitter. I have the E2L 30L outdoorsman with the square beam as well. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:28:09 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What are you talking about? Lumens are the measurement of all visible light output generated by the LED. Integrated spheres used to test the lumen output of LED lights can only measure light in the visible spectrum. You'd need a sensor capable of IR capture, or UV, to measure that wavelength. Candela, preferred by some, is a mathematical calc based on the lux value at a measured distance from the light meter's target sensor. Some consider candela a superior measurement to lumens as it measures the collimated light intensity in the center of the beam, or 'hot spot'. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Lumens suck. It includes frequencies that humans cannot see. Candelas measure what humans can see. In a nutshell, Lumens = total light output Candela = maximum intensity Candela = throw. Higher Candela will illuminate an object to the same brightness, at further distances. |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:28:59 PM EST
[#15]
My first SureFire is an L4 - 60 lumens for an hour run time.
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Posted: 3/30/2023 1:35:48 PM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok that’s awesome. I gotta see that pic… Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: LEP Laser Excited Phosphor. I have the 1.8 million candela Weltool W4. In one of these flashlight threads, an arfcommer posted a pic. They hiked up to the top of a mountain, then called their (wife?) to ask if they could see the light from the mountaintop in the daytime. They could, and took a photo. The light is visible from the mountaintop, in the photo, in daylight, from about 10 miles away, IIRC (he was pointing the light in the general direction of the person who took the photo). Ok that’s awesome. I gotta see that pic… @highstepper Found it! Post with pic is halfway down the page. Mea Culpa, arfcommer says it was from ~TWENTY miles away  https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Remember-the-Fenix-TK30-LEP-flashlight-Well-prepare-to-give-Fenix-more-money-/5-2573849/?page=2&anc=bottom#bottom |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:17:17 PM EST
[#17]
Here are the salty bitches. Still have some IZ dust in the nooks and crannies. One appears to have a collapsed o ring inside the bezel. What can I do with these bodies as far as new heads and clicky tail caps?
 Attached File Attached File |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:36:20 PM EST
[#18]
20yrs has made for profound changes in LED tech.
My 2003 EDC vs my current EDC. 
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:41:05 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here are the salty bitches. Still have some IZ dust in the nooks and crannies. One appears to have a collapsed o ring inside the bezel. What can I do with these bodies as far as new heads and clicky tail caps? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/302703/22DF9033-BF28-4823-91DC-8B10CF49A5E2_jpe-2764165.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/302703/D3CAF0F9-DBB0-4E5E-8576-45E951E0D761_jpe-2764169.JPG Start looking for Surefire XM switches on the EE or ebay https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=surefire+XM&_sacat=0, and then you can use a current plug-in type SF tape switch. If you just want a pushbutton tailcap, look for a surefire Z41, which is the same as used on the 6P, C2, etc.. A Malkoff M61 is a drop-in fix, and he also sells delrin spacer rings ($1/each) to put in between the front of the LED and the bezel. https://malkoffdevices.com/products/fitting-ring-for-surefire-shock-absorbing-head |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:42:54 PM EST
[#20]
I still have a Pentagonlight out in the barn.
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Posted: 3/30/2023 3:53:32 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember that Glock used to have first-party WMLs that were dog crap by today's standards. Mine still works  Attached File |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 4:35:27 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Start looking for Surefire XM switches on the EE or ebay https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=surefire+XM&_sacat=0, and then you can use a current plug-in type SF tape switch. If you just want a pushbutton tailcap, look for a surefire Z41, which is the same as used on the 6P, C2, etc.. A Malkoff M61 is a drop-in fix, and he also sells delrin spacer rings ($1/each) to put in between the front of the LED and the bezel. https://malkoffdevices.com/products/fitting-ring-for-surefire-shock-absorbing-head Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here are the salty bitches. Still have some IZ dust in the nooks and crannies. One appears to have a collapsed o ring inside the bezel. What can I do with these bodies as far as new heads and clicky tail caps? https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/302703/22DF9033-BF28-4823-91DC-8B10CF49A5E2_jpe-2764165.JPG https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/302703/D3CAF0F9-DBB0-4E5E-8576-45E951E0D761_jpe-2764169.JPG Start looking for Surefire XM switches on the EE or ebay https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_from=R40&_trksid=p2380057.m570.l1313&_nkw=surefire+XM&_sacat=0, and then you can use a current plug-in type SF tape switch. If you just want a pushbutton tailcap, look for a surefire Z41, which is the same as used on the 6P, C2, etc.. A Malkoff M61 is a drop-in fix, and he also sells delrin spacer rings ($1/each) to put in between the front of the LED and the bezel. https://malkoffdevices.com/products/fitting-ring-for-surefire-shock-absorbing-head GunnyG for the win again. Thanks |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 5:16:02 PM EST
[#23]
"Old farts"........?
Damn youngsters..  Early Surefire and Maglites were like magic compared to the ORIGINAL late 60's Kel-Lite super dim skull wackers........... Still have one around. (not my pic)  |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 5:20:50 PM EST
[#24]
#iremember
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Posted: 3/30/2023 5:38:02 PM EST
[#25]
If I recall correctly I had to twist the bezel to turn on the one I had. Unfortunately I believe an old girlfriends son took it
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Posted: 3/30/2023 5:58:09 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryI still use those shotgun lights |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 6:07:15 PM EST
[#27]
I remember camping/whitewater-rafting back in the 80s when a Mini-Mag flashlight got you in the cool kids club
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Posted: 3/30/2023 6:19:05 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryAnd now $10 will get you a light that fits in a toddler’s hand and has more lumens/candelas than all of those combined 
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Posted: 3/30/2023 8:14:15 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryLoved that light! My best friend still has my Thrunite Scorpion V2, which was a modernized version. Best duty light I've ever owned! |
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Posted: 3/30/2023 8:21:46 PM EST
[#30]
Quoted: My first Surefire (Laser Products marked) light was the shit at 60 lumens! First WML was an HK UTL that cost half as much as my USP 45. Lost my first 6Z (a ton of $ at the time) in a bar fight. $12 for 60 minute run time batteries, in the 90s. Now, looking for more TLR-1 WMLs at 300 lumens to not be blinded by the $10 more 1000 lumens HLs indoors. Yeah, I'm old... Still using mine however it was upgraded to a Malkoff. I have many other lights, it’s still my favorite and the one that sits on my nightstand.  
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Posted: 3/31/2023 6:04:07 AM EST
[#31]
these work okay for cheap lamp upgrades. May require tweaking of spring
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Posted: 3/31/2023 6:31:45 AM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: these work okay for cheap lamp upgrades. May require tweaking of spring www.amazon.com/dp/B008PN0Q2Q I've got similar in my 951, it works pretty good but the whole assembly is just so big and clunky compared to what's on the market now I don't have it mounted on anything, and none of the drop-ins work with the IR filter. Someone should really make a drop in that has an IR and vis LED side by side - you'd lose some battery life, but it would still be an improvement over the old Xenon bulbs. |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 6:40:12 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @highstepper Found it! Post with pic is halfway down the page. Mea Culpa, arfcommer says it was from ~TWENTY miles away https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Remember-the-Fenix-TK30-LEP-flashlight-Well-prepare-to-give-Fenix-more-money-/5-2573849/?page=2&anc=bottom#bottom That’s NUTS!!! Thanks for finding it.   Attached File |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 6:58:20 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just for shits and giggles I bought one of the USGI right angle flashlights. Still made in USA believe it or not. A cigarette lighter puts out more light. The old school Fulton moonbeam. They offer a LED & battery conversion. I think I read that it'll take it to 25 lumens or something. Edit: can someone point me towards a decent headlamp please. I've used a small 2032 clip-on style for years in my truck and it recently died. I'd like to try one of the elastic band styles this time I think. |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 8:37:24 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've got similar in my 951, it works pretty good but the whole assembly is just so big and clunky compared to what's on the market now I don't have it mounted on anything, and none of the drop-ins work with the IR filter. Someone should really make a drop in that has an IR and vis LED side by side - you'd lose some battery life, but it would still be an improvement over the old Xenon bulbs. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: these work okay for cheap lamp upgrades. May require tweaking of spring www.amazon.com/dp/B008PN0Q2Q I've got similar in my 951, it works pretty good but the whole assembly is just so big and clunky compared to what's on the market now I don't have it mounted on anything, and none of the drop-ins work with the IR filter. Someone should really make a drop in that has an IR and vis LED side by side - you'd lose some battery life, but it would still be an improvement over the old Xenon bulbs. Thanks for the link and background. Gonna order a 2-pack for one of the 951s I posted earlier and the 6P I recently found. How would you select between the IR and visible LEDs on something that doesn't have a mechanical mode selection process like the vampire series? Or would that be part of the new drop on head? @arr199 |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 8:59:14 AM EST
[#36]
For those who might be digging out old SF lights and trying to remember what the hell they were called if you're looking for replacement and/or upgrade parts, this link to an archived post breaks it down nicely.
https://www.ar15.com/forums/ar-15/Identify-This-Surefire---/118-725281/ SUREFIRE MILLENNIUM UNIVERSAL M9xx Series Weapon Lights –----- Basically like the Millennium series handhelds, but have battery retention and either a lever mount or thumbscrew mounts built in. They have complete parts interchangeability with the Millenniums. M95x ----- 6V Small head M96x-----9V Small head M97x-----9V Turbo head, has greater throw but weighs more M98x-----12V Turbo head, a M4 Dominator weapon light The last number indicates mount type M9x1-----Thumbscrew mounts M9x2-----Arms throw lever M9xL-----Larue Adjustable Mount Suffix indicates tail cap type C -----Two step pushbutton, part way is momentary; all the way clicks on/off. P -----Momentary push button on only, but twist for constant on. SUxx -----Pressure pad switch with xx length lead. Typically 5, 6 or 7”. XMxx -----C type switch + a pressure pad switch of xx length built into one. The pressure pad can be disconnected and a rubber plug put in its place. |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 9:13:04 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The old school Fulton moonbeam. They offer a LED & battery conversion. I think I read that it'll take it to 25 lumens or something. . . . There a couple of people on Ebay selling 3D printed battery adapters ( i.e., putting a single 26650 or others, in place of 2 D cells) too.  https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?item=194778745572&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2562&_ssn=bino1973 and https://www.ebay.com/usr/printworksdesign?_trksid=p2047675.m3561.l2559 I have bought this sub-$20 LED to use in a 4D cell maglite, and was pleasantly surprised with it. It casts a better throw and spill than the similar 75 lumens offering from NiteIze, and it is a two stage (first press of the light switch gives 55 lumens, 2nd press goes to 525 lumens, 3rd is off). It should work with a single rechargeable 4.2vdc battery too: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08L2JZM1F?tag=arfcom00-20;qid=1680271095&sr=8-1-spons&psc=1&spLa=ZW5jcnlwdGVkUXVhbGlmaWVyPUEyVFczQTY5NjJWQ1FBJmVuY3J5cHRlZElkPUEwNTMxNzUwMjdVRExFVU5ZWFA0TSZlbmNyeXB0ZWRBZElkPUEwNzU4NTE4MUNaOTM3U01PQVU1TSZ3aWRnZXROYW1lPXNwX2F0ZiZhY3Rpb249Y2xpY2tSZWRpcmVjdCZkb05vdExvZ0NsaWNrPXRydWU= |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 9:17:02 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Edit: can someone point me towards a decent headlamp please. I've used a small 2032 clip-on style for years in my truck and it recently died. I'd like to try one of the elastic band styles this time I think. Look at a COB LED headband like https://www.govx.com/p/126000/pro-1000-headlamp, or others like it. |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 9:24:10 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The old school Fulton moonbeam. They offer a LED & battery conversion. I think I read that it'll take it to 25 lumens or something. Edit: can someone point me towards a decent headlamp please. I've used a small 2032 clip-on style for years in my truck and it recently died. I'd like to try one of the elastic band styles this time I think. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just for shits and giggles I bought one of the USGI right angle flashlights. Still made in USA believe it or not. A cigarette lighter puts out more light. The old school Fulton moonbeam. They offer a LED & battery conversion. I think I read that it'll take it to 25 lumens or something. Edit: can someone point me towards a decent headlamp please. I've used a small 2032 clip-on style for years in my truck and it recently died. I'd like to try one of the elastic band styles this time I think. I got a 2-pack of these for $25. Rechargeable and a number of red/white hi/low modes. If just want a simple off/on this isn't for you, but I have them in drawers and on a couple workbenches all over the house and they've worked well so far. https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0972XCG19/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1 |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 9:34:43 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Look at a COB LED headband like https://www.govx.com/p/126000/pro-1000-headlamp, or others like it. Roger, thanks. I had looked at the cob style but was unsure whether they were snake oil. |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 10:04:41 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Roger, thanks. I had looked at the cob style but was unsure whether they were snake oil. I've had the Liteband1000 pro for a couple of years, and it is good quality. It really does cast a great 210 degree flood of usable light, and with reasonably good throw too, really good for walking at night, on unlit trails. I have a SF Minimus, and a Streamlight Sidewinder Compact to compare it to, and those two are narrower and weaker. |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 10:08:44 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Thanks for the link and background. Gonna order a 2-pack for one of the 951s I posted earlier and the 6P I recently found. How would you select between the IR and visible LEDs on something that doesn't have a mechanical mode selection process like the vampire series? Or would that be part of the new drop on head? @arr199 You wouldn't! They'd just both always be on. You'd use the IR filter just like way back when. I don't expect that would be a particularly marketable product, but I'd like one to make my 951 make sense now that I'm gradually moving everything over to NV compatible. |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 10:10:18 AM EST
[#43]
I didn't read the whole thread, so this may have already been mentioned...
But this is the reason for the love of old Coleman style mantle gas lamps. Old style filament bulbs powered by alkaline batteries had no chance against them. Modern Lithium + LEDs are another story and are better performers. Except for collectors: https://www.ar15.com/forums/general/Any-Coleman-Lantern-fans-in-here-/5-2628796/ |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 10:19:37 AM EST
[#44]
My 6P and 6Z lights got the malkof bulb and 16650 batteries
 Attached FileMade them into usable lights again. |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 10:22:07 AM EST
[#45]
Read through most of the thread. Brings back great memories.
I'd like to second what others have said about how a Malkoff M60 or M61 breathes new life into any Surefire that takes a replaceable bulb. They tend to use older (trusted) emitters, and are made in the USA! I started using these about a decade ago, my favorite are the 2-modes: turns an old Surefire into a very functional modern light. Fully potted, large brass heat sink, extremely durable and sufficiently bright! I have used a ton of Asian-made drop-ins over the years and found the Sportac versions to be top notch, never had a failure and they offer very high lumen options. Brass heatsink, modern emitters, and neutral tint options. These make a Surefire equivalent to many modern 2x CR123 lights. Over 1000 ANSI lumens, with a 1-hour runtime. I've used these in weapon lights on 12ga shotguns with great success: 
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Posted: 3/31/2023 11:24:21 AM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You wouldn't! They'd just both always be on. You'd use the IR filter just like way back when. I don't expect that would be a particularly marketable product, but I'd like one to make my 951 make sense now that I'm gradually moving everything over to NV compatible. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Thanks for the link and background. Gonna order a 2-pack for one of the 951s I posted earlier and the 6P I recently found. How would you select between the IR and visible LEDs on something that doesn't have a mechanical mode selection process like the vampire series? Or would that be part of the new drop on head? @arr199 You wouldn't! They'd just both always be on. You'd use the IR filter just like way back when. I don't expect that would be a particularly marketable product, but I'd like one to make my 951 make sense now that I'm gradually moving everything over to NV compatible. Ah, now I think I'm tracking. A white LED for normal eyeball shit, and another LED that emits on the spectrum that would allow the IR filter to do its thing. Kinda makes sense, but that filter kills so much of the light I wonder if making it a selectable, Vampire-esque, setup would actually be better in the long run. |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 12:53:35 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @memsu What's a reputable 16650 battery? All the ones on Amazon have ~40 ratings, so likely all Chinese co-workers saying how awesome the battery is (until it lights my house on fire). Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: FYI the Surefire G2 can run on rechargeable batteries. Get a 16650 battery. It's just 2mm smaller than a 18650. Get several hours of run time out of it as well. Now no need for CR123 batteries. @memsu What's a reputable 16650 battery? All the ones on Amazon have ~40 ratings, so likely all Chinese co-workers saying how awesome the battery is (until it lights my house on fire). @glenn_r I've heard these are good. https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09TW87YBM?tag=arfcom00-20 Mine are Efest 16650s. No issues with them, but don't seem to have them anymore. |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 1:02:49 PM EST
[#48]
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Posted: 3/31/2023 1:31:50 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember that Glock used to have first-party WMLs that were dog crap by today's standards. I still have one of those on a Glock! Enough light to see it ain't Santa in your living room. |
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Posted: 3/31/2023 1:48:14 PM EST
[#50]
What Malkov conversion works in the old SF 870 forend lights?
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