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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:28:08 PM EDT
[#1]
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Like 98 percent responsibility falls on the user. There are the rare exceptions when people become hooked because of prescribed drugs, but theyre the exception not the rule. I've never done drugs. I've been offered them, but never used them. As a result, I've never had any of these problems. Legalize everything. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:28:44 PM EDT
[#2]
Except antibiotics those should still need a prescription and ban narcan outside of hospitals.
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:30:58 PM EDT
[#3]
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Nope. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:31:16 PM EDT
[#4]
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I saw the President's speech today and as someone who's had 4 major abdominal surgeries in one year, a 7 day script for Hydrocodone just won't cut it. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:31:37 PM EDT
[#5]
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How do you feel about murder for hire? Say your professor has it in for you, can you have him wacked? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Capitalism disagrees with you. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:31:58 PM EDT
[#6]
OK, is it an "opioid crisis" or just people looking to get high on anything.
How many of the deaths are actually an opioid vs some synthetic elephant or horse tranquilizer? Most of the deaths are NOT people with a prescription but street drugs, so how is tightening up on pain meds going to affect this? |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:34:46 PM EDT
[#7]
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Demand can be created through marketing and coercion. Kids were not dying left and right from opioids 20 years ago. The recent demand has been created by designer synthetic opioids that are exponentially more potent than street heroin from the 1990's. Middle school kids do not get the idea to try opioids unless street dealers are pushing the stuff. Think about alcohol and tobacco advertising. Illegal drugs are promoted in a similar manner. Free samples, music events, clubs, etc. https://image.slidesharecdn.com/salemclinicpresentation-170114221157/95/salem-clinic-presentation-6-638.jpg?cb=1484431971 |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:34:48 PM EDT
[#8]
People are weak. You included, dear reader. Every time you eat an extra cookie, or drink a little too much beer, or say something you regret soon after. We’re a lot less rational and in control than we like to think. Add that to collapsing society (it’s not a coincidence that this epidemic is worst in places that are economically depressed and broadly despised by the rest of the country ), a broader culture of immediate gratification and sensation seeking constructed by advertising and marketing to take advantage of all of those inherent human ‘weaknesses’, and a limitless supply of really cheap, incredibly potent drugs - it’s surprising there aren’t more junkies.
This is like the Indians drinking themselves to death on the reservation. A defeated people with no opportunities and nowhere to go poisoning themselves to death. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:35:05 PM EDT
[#9]
The question isn't who is to blame.....
The question is does the nation have the right to tellnits citizens what they can ingest. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:35:20 PM EDT
[#10]
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That does really piss me off fucking over the people who need it because of druggies. I’ve had 4 back surgeries and ankle reconstruction so know what I’m talking about as well. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:37:47 PM EDT
[#11]
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How do you feel about murder for hire? Say your professor has it in for you, can you have him wacked? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Capitalism disagrees with you. ... or, you know, an FBI sting. 
Note that I am NOT talking about legality or morality here, but purely about market forces. If you are willing to pay enough money to kill someone, there will be someone somewhere willing to sell you that service. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:38:22 PM EDT
[#12]
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coupled with the reduction in illegal immigration and hopefully also a reduction in human trafficking, raping of women and children the cartels are engaging in, I'm willing to take a chance that securing our southern boarder might have a slight reduction in drug importation. It can't make it worse. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:39:34 PM EDT
[#13]
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Demand can be created through marketing and coercion. Kids were not dying left and right from opioids 20 years ago. The recent demand has been created by designer synthetic opioids that are exponentially more potent than street heroin from the 1990's. Middle school kids do not get the idea to try opioids unless street dealers are pushing the stuff. Think about alcohol and tobacco advertising. Illegal drugs are promoted in a similar manner. Free samples, music events, clubs, etc. Make everything legal. Then show your kids pictures and stories of drug addicts. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:42:11 PM EDT
[#14]
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Question for ya, in two parts: This is hypothetical, not mean to be an insult or demeaning, but for the sake of argument, let's say you are an alcoholic, or addicted to nicotine, and I mean like a three pack a day habit. Tomorrow, with the stroke of a pen, all stores in the U.S. suddenly stop selling alcohol and nicotine, flat out. A: Do you think that means no one will sell illegal alcohol and nicotine in shady and potentially dangerous ways? and B: Are you going to up and say "well, that's that then, guess I won't be drinking/smoking ever again. Shucks," or are you going to go right ahead and buy what you want/need illegally? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Cartels are responsible for drug use in the same way the grocery stores and restaurants are responsible for obesity. This is hypothetical, not mean to be an insult or demeaning, but for the sake of argument, let's say you are an alcoholic, or addicted to nicotine, and I mean like a three pack a day habit. Tomorrow, with the stroke of a pen, all stores in the U.S. suddenly stop selling alcohol and nicotine, flat out. A: Do you think that means no one will sell illegal alcohol and nicotine in shady and potentially dangerous ways? and B: Are you going to up and say "well, that's that then, guess I won't be drinking/smoking ever again. Shucks," or are you going to go right ahead and buy what you want/need illegally?
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:45:17 PM EDT
[#15]
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Good point, hadn't even considered that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Three choices: 1. We all live by what amounts to the rules of a prison camp to try to keep druggies from doing their druggie thing. 2. We spend unbelievable sums to treat this minority of druggies like kings and queens: endless free therapy, spa vacations at recovery centers, no consequences for crimes because they're "addicts", etc. 3. Freedom. Use whatever drugs, or not. The government is out of the business of telling you what to do. BUT: you must support yourself, pay for your own spa vacations when you feel the need to dry out, and be held accountable for crimes you commit while loaded or to further your addiction, or support your lifestyle because you can't hold a job. I pick 3. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:45:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Is 50k deaths really an epidemic?
There are 88k alcohol related deaths each year. Is there an alcohol epidemic? If so, should we repeal the 21st amendment. Should we blame InBev or other manufacturers? If 88k people die form alcohol does that mean I can’t have a beer. If we needed the 18th amendment to make alcohol illegal, what amendment gives the federal government the authority to prohibit drugs? (Hint, there isn’t one) If they really wanted to stop usage, they would carpet bomb every poppy field in Afghanistan instead of providing security for them. Subsidize the Afghans to grow something else. Legalize everything, including darwining yourself. At least it would be cheaper than the drug war. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:46:49 PM EDT
[#17]
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Civilization HAS to work for the decent people who make IT work, or it won't endure. At this point, we have reached a stage where it is the druggies, or the rest of us. You can't take any more money out of my pocket for this shit. That's why responses are mixed. Cultures who formerly considered themselves mutually exclusive with druggie scum are learning the premises for their moral superiority were or have become wrong. That's why Trump is addressing it - it's his base. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:46:53 PM EDT
[#18]
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I didn't hear his speech. What is he advocating? A maximum prescription of 7 days for pain relief? I hope this isn't real. My wife uses Hydrocodone for back pain. Has for years. No increase in usage and not a junkie by any means. It already sucks she has to see the doc every month to renew what they know is for pain. And I sympathize with the ab surgery. I've had two and likely going back for surgery to repair hernias caused by the original one that didn't stay fixed by the second one. Not worried about pain pills. heck they were giving them to me like candy and I have plenty left over. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:48:40 PM EDT
[#19]
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Its pretty bad down here. every few weeks I hear about someone else dying... some people will just say "my cousin died while using, she was trying to kick it" other say "they just went to sleep and didn't wake up" when they're too embarrassed to say they were using but you know what they mean. the reality is, if breaking bad had been about Heroin rather then Meth it would have been accurate for the state. Naloxone is now an OTC at walgreens here. seriously. I don't even live in a shitty poor area by any means and I see needles, spoons all over the place. any park I go by I have to watch out when walking my dog in some places to make sure he doesn't step on a needle. I know it ain't the diabetics tossing them out at the park and under the over passes. I stopped to check something on a car under an over pass one day, needles everywhere... Will slowing it at the border stop people who wanna do drugs? no, people are dumb and want to get fucked up, but it might make it more difficult for some to even get started in the first place. the cartels switched gears when weed started getting grown in the US. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I have no data to back up my claim but I think it's just another overblown mostly made up media crap. the reality is, if breaking bad had been about Heroin rather then Meth it would have been accurate for the state. Naloxone is now an OTC at walgreens here. seriously. I don't even live in a shitty poor area by any means and I see needles, spoons all over the place. any park I go by I have to watch out when walking my dog in some places to make sure he doesn't step on a needle. I know it ain't the diabetics tossing them out at the park and under the over passes. I stopped to check something on a car under an over pass one day, needles everywhere... Will slowing it at the border stop people who wanna do drugs? no, people are dumb and want to get fucked up, but it might make it more difficult for some to even get started in the first place. the cartels switched gears when weed started getting grown in the US. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:51:12 PM EDT
[#20]
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Most of these amount restrictions are for initial prescriptions of opiates with exceptions for people like myself with chronic ongoing pain that stay with the normal 30 day scripts. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:51:49 PM EDT
[#21]
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I haven't found an announcement of limiting prescriptions to 7 days. Can you point me to some information on this? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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That does really piss me off fucking over the people who need it because of druggies. I’ve had 4 back surgeries and ankle reconstruction so know what I’m talking about as well. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:55:26 PM EDT
[#22]
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Thanks goodness. It's already a PITA for her. Used to get 3 months at a pop. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Most of these amount restrictions are for initial prescriptions of opiates with exceptions for people like myself with chronic ongoing pain that stay with the normal 30 day scripts. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 8:59:45 PM EDT
[#23]
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It’s still a drop in the bucket 50,000 people in a country of 321,000,000 who gives a fuck. If you're a small town right winger, perhaps a coal miner who's been obsoleted by natural gas and solar or a veteran on VA benefits... someone with a self-image built on railing against parasites, who has become one against their will on account of making 95-100IQ tier life choices...then it's a problem. Capitalists have little sympathy for deplorables. Flag-waving populists love em. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 9:02:06 PM EDT
[#24]
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As a guy with over a decade "fighting" the WOD, I can tell you you don't know very much about the trade. Or, really, the market in general---but that tends to happen when people get emotionally invested in a subject. (Check out a "price gouging" thread some time.) I mean, you wanna check out the freest market there is, study the black market in drugs. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 9:03:51 PM EDT
[#25]
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Not sure if a trump mentioned it in the speech but that’s the “popular” solution in a lot of states staring with Gov. Krispy Kreme in New Jersey. They normally have exceptions for people with chronic pain and the restrictions are for initial prescriptions for opiates. That's the shit that needs to stop. People with verifiable long term pain shouldn't have to jump through hoops to get relief. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 9:27:09 PM EDT
[#26]
How bout the drug companies who lie to docs telling them their new narcotic pain meds aren't addictive? Then cut everyone off after blowback (planned crisis?).
Which way western junky? |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 9:37:30 PM EDT
[#27]
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Both. I want the National Guard on the border. Fuck 'em, you get one warning shot, if you dont turn a 180° and start running you get some .30 cal holes. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 9:38:04 PM EDT
[#28]
Suppliers can’t force consumption; that’s all on the user.
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Posted: 10/26/2017 9:40:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Actually the habits starts at Walgreens or CVS, not Mexican cartels.
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Posted: 10/26/2017 9:49:59 PM EDT
[#30]
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You don't quite get markets, do you? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Capitalism disagrees with you. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 9:50:35 PM EDT
[#31]
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Actually the habits starts at Walgreens or CVS, not Mexican cartels. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 9:52:04 PM EDT
[#32]
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Actually, I do. The difference here is that people view murder as unacceptable and don’t view drugs with the same level of social stigma. Because there is a high social stigma for murder vary few engage in it. If there were the same level of social stigma for drugs very few people would engage in it too. The real consideration is is the activity illegal? Both are illegal; but one isn’t enforced as hard as the other. While both of those things are illegal (broadly speaking), you're comparing apples and rottweilers. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 9:53:17 PM EDT
[#33]
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If a professor is such a colossal dick, that students would actually be willing to hire someone to kill him - then yes, the market WILL provide a solution. It might be more than the wronged student wants to pay, but the supply/demand equilibrium will be available. ... or, you know, an FBI sting.
Note that I am NOT talking about legality or morality here, but purely about market forces. If you are willing to pay enough money to kill someone, there will be someone somewhere willing to sell you that service. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 9:54:50 PM EDT
[#34]
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Murder is an act. Drugs are objects. While both of those things are illegal (broadly speaking), you're comparing apples and rottweilers. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 9:56:07 PM EDT
[#35]
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I agree with you. In my original post I was saying that there are two groups here, the users and the suppliers. We lack the social will to kill the users; but we don’t lack the social will to kill the suppliers who are part of a transnational drug cartel. Remove the supply and the problem goes away. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 10:00:59 PM EDT
[#36]
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Of course, the US military has had a bit of an opportunity to destroy poppy crops in Afghanistan over the last 15 years. Just sayin. I doubt it. The US government would never engage in the importation and distribution of chemicals to make a fucking boat load of dough. They are so ethical, it wouldn't even cross their collective minds. I feel better now. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 10:03:35 PM EDT
[#37]
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90-95% of opioids in the U.S. come from Mexico. 
Like manufactured in a pharmaceutical plant in Mexico? |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 10:09:46 PM EDT
[#38]
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You forgot option C: Suckin dick for menthols. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Cartels are responsible for drug use in the same way the grocery stores and restaurants are responsible for obesity. This is hypothetical, not mean to be an insult or demeaning, but for the sake of argument, let's say you are an alcoholic, or addicted to nicotine, and I mean like a three pack a day habit. Tomorrow, with the stroke of a pen, all stores in the U.S. suddenly stop selling alcohol and nicotine, flat out. A: Do you think that means no one will sell illegal alcohol and nicotine in shady and potentially dangerous ways? and B: Are you going to up and say "well, that's that then, guess I won't be drinking/smoking ever again. Shucks," or are you going to go right ahead and buy what you want/need illegally?
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Posted: 10/26/2017 10:13:33 PM EDT
[#39]
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Bulllllllllshit. The whole "hey kid, try this... all the cool kids are doing it" stereotype was a load of crap dreamed up by the idiots pushing "Just Say No" propaganda. People are curious by nature and if they hear someone say "this pill makes you feel good", a significant number of folks want to try it just to see what it's like. Just the name "painkiller" is enough to make people want to try it and everybody has a mom, dad, aunt, uncle, or grandparent who has commented about painkillers at some point and it's never "oh those are terrible, don't ever try them because they make you feel bad!" Do you really think kids need to be pursuaded to try alochol, nicotine, or narcotics? That's like saying nobody would want sugar or sex if not for effective advertising. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Middle school kids do not get the idea to try opioids unless street dealers are pushing the stuff. The whole "hey kid, try this... all the cool kids are doing it" stereotype was a load of crap dreamed up by the idiots pushing "Just Say No" propaganda. People are curious by nature and if they hear someone say "this pill makes you feel good", a significant number of folks want to try it just to see what it's like. Just the name "painkiller" is enough to make people want to try it and everybody has a mom, dad, aunt, uncle, or grandparent who has commented about painkillers at some point and it's never "oh those are terrible, don't ever try them because they make you feel bad!" Do you really think kids need to be pursuaded to try alochol, nicotine, or narcotics? That's like saying nobody would want sugar or sex if not for effective advertising. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 10:16:41 PM EDT
[#40]
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They have been trying for years. And all they have done is create a massive narco trade with so much profit there are people willing to kill and die to reap the benefits. At some point when progress isn't visible maybe the strategy should be called into question. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 10:28:21 PM EDT
[#41]
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There isn’t much we can do about weak minded people. There is a whole lot we can do about transnational drug cartels. I say, let SoD Mathis solve the problem under the clear and present danger doctrine. He can ISIS then out of business. They let El Chapo go so he'd calm the cartel wars that follow every time they lock him up. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 10:28:59 PM EDT
[#42]
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OMG A CRISIS!!!! 
Wait, why wasn't this "OMG A CRISIS!" 10 years ago in 2007 where that very sinister graph stops? I'm sure it's not because certain forces in the govmedia decided to recently start banging the drum for another push in the WoD. why is this a problem again? junkies(typically people who have 0 benefit to society) kill themselves off, especially with fentanol being introduced these days. teach your kids about the realities of drugs. not the DARE bullshit that was fed to us in the 2000s. i had a health teacher tell a class of sophmores that if they are considering smoking weed, they should do heroin instead, as its safer. idk if this was some pathetic attempt to scare kids from smoking pot. The truth is the only way to win. as the internet will prove more than enough data to back up reality |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 10:31:43 PM EDT
[#43]
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I think I saw the article on here but someone made an argument that it was the partially the pill distributer's fault. Wouldn't report suspicious orders. 
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Posted: 10/26/2017 10:35:55 PM EDT
[#44]
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For my kid? Yeah, I'd intervene... by raising them well enough in the first place to have the wherewithal to make the right choices in life. Your kid? That's your responsibility. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I guess when drugs are pushed to teenagers I tend to place most of the blame on dealers. Opioid dealers often get people hooked on pills and then convince a user that IV is cheaper, easier whatever once that person is hooked. Often they give pills away for free at parties knowing that they'll create new customers. If a 30 year old Mexican was selling cheap moonshine to your middle school child would you say f*ck it and let the kid get blacked out every weekend or would you intervene? Your kid? That's your responsibility. if by "dealer" you mean wallgreens, CVS, etc etc then yes you are correct. pain pills are expensive as hell on the black market. the ones getting people hooked are the doctors and pharmacies. my buddy broke his leg falling down a flight of stairs at a icy train station, they prescribed him 100 pills. my Dr friend said that he should have only gotten half or a quarter that. then used OTC meds. he got a refill for 100 more because he didnt ask for it, so the dr gave it to him as he didnt exhibit "drug seeker" tenancies. at the end of the day, its the patients who are making the mistakes. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 10:37:43 PM EDT
[#45]
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The sale of drugs are an act too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Murder is an act. Drugs are objects. While both of those things are illegal (broadly speaking), you're comparing apples and rottweilers. When someone hires someone to commit murder, the person to be murdered isn't voluntarily a part of it. When the person is killed, it's something done to someone else. It's equating masturbation to rape. It isn't the same. It's a dumb argument. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 10:38:54 PM EDT
[#46]
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That does really piss me off fucking over the people who need it because of druggies. I’ve had 4 back surgeries and ankle reconstruction so know what I’m talking about as well. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I saw the President's speech today and as someone who's had 4 major abdominal surgeries in one year, a 7 day script for Hydrocodone just won't cut it. Sure, it was hard to sleep during knee surgery and I woke up every time I moved my leg. Before and after collar bone surgery it hurt every time I took a breath. Esophagus surgery was a constant pain, but I’d rather not sleep than ever get hooked on pills. I’ve dealt with to many people hooked on pills to take them. I’d rather suffer silently. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 10:43:19 PM EDT
[#47]
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I guess when drugs are pushed to teenagers I tend to place most of the blame on dealers. Opioid dealers often get people hooked on pills and then convince a user that IV is cheaper, easier whatever once that person is hooked. Often they give pills away for free at parties knowing that they'll create new customers. If a 30 year old Mexican was selling cheap moonshine to your middle school child would you say f*ck it and let the kid get blacked out every weekend or would you intervene? 
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Posted: 10/26/2017 10:44:44 PM EDT
[#48]
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You're kidding right? 80's and 90's tons of people were dying from heroin. It was huge. This is just a swingback from all the meth users of the late 90s and 2000s because opiates got cheaper. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Demand can be created through marketing and coercion. Kids were not dying left and right from opioids 20 years ago. The recent demand has been created by designer synthetic opioids that are exponentially more potent than street heroin from the 1990's. Middle school kids do not get the idea to try opioids unless street dealers are pushing the stuff. Think about alcohol and tobacco advertising. Illegal drugs are promoted in a similar manner. Free samples, music events, clubs, etc. |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 10:45:41 PM EDT
[#49]
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so this gives Sessions something to do besides getting the clintons in the clink? |
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Posted: 10/26/2017 10:49:39 PM EDT
[#50]
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This is true; but we can close the drug grocery store. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Cartels are responsible for drug use in the same way the grocery stores and restaurants are responsible for obesity.
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