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Link Posted: 6/9/2019 6:04:07 AM EDT
[#1]
Rolling blackouts sound rather 3rd wordlish/dystopian...

Really shows what a failure CA is..
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 6:08:33 AM EDT
[#2]
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 6:15:16 AM EDT
[#3]
Who cares?
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 9:55:22 AM EDT
[#4]
I think that once the tech is ready for residential use, you'll see energy servers installed as part of new home construction.  The ones I am familiar with are made by Bloom and use natural gas and water to produce electricity through some kind of electrochemical reaction.  They are being installed all over the SF Bay Area for commercial use.  Kaiser Hospitals are probably the biggest customer right now with all facilities planning to have them installed.

Bloom Energy
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 10:27:26 AM EDT
[#5]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

OP's editorialization is baloney.  The cited article says NOTHING about the state not allowing trees to be trimmed.  The situation has nothing to do with California environmental protection laws.

Utilities are permitted by federal law to trim trees, shrubs, etc. in the vicinity of power transmission lines on both private and public lands.  California state law requires it.  (Several years ago SDG&E took out a LARGE Mexican fan palm that my ex-wife brilliantly planted right under a 12 KV line in front of my house.  I paid nothing.)

The problem is that it's very expensive to maintain adequate clearance in densely forested areas.  The California Public Utilities Commission has to approve plans to improve fire safety.  PG&E and others haven't spent the money, they've been dragging their feet, and there is some controversy about where the money would come from.  The blackout plan is a cheap kludge to avoid liability until a workable plan to trim vegetation can be worked out and implemented.

https://www.cpuc.ca.gov/General.aspx?id=1974

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/02/07/business/energy-environment/pge-wildfire-plan-blackouts.html
View Quote
Thank you for the info.
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 3:02:45 PM EDT
[#6]
Brilliant! I'm sure the fire risk will be a lot less from the thousands of people running generators.
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 3:09:18 PM EDT
[#7]
What a wonderful company!   Cancel electricity sales to your customers on the weekend.

Give that CEO another $3M bonus.

https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2019/04/17/pge-ceo-bonus-3-million-first-day/
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 3:13:26 PM EDT
[#8]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Rolling blackouts sound rather 3rd wordlish/dystopian...

Really shows what a failure CA is..
View Quote
Rolling black outs have been a thing here for a very long time in the summer months when the grid gets over loaded. CA residents should not be surprised. But somehow they always seem to forget.
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 3:27:57 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
Brilliant! I'm sure the fire risk will be a lot less from the thousands of people running generators.
View Quote
This isn't really about reducing fire risk. It's about reducing lawsuit risk.
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 3:28:11 PM EDT
[#10]
We have a full time dept that's out keeping the lines clear and cleaned from trees brush etc. People complain constantly about us destroying nature....
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 3:29:35 PM EDT
[#11]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

This isn't really about reducing fire risk. It's about reducing lawsuit risk.
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If I was in charge of a utility anytime wind strong enough to cause lines to clap I would be shutting power off unless I had brush cleared for a 100 yards underneath them.
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 3:32:54 PM EDT
[#12]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Rolling blackouts sound rather 3rd wordlish/dystopian...

Really shows what a failure CA is..
View Quote
These are planned shutdowns during exceptionally warm and dry weather in rural areas prone to fires.

But I'm sure rolling blackout is a better headline.
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 3:34:00 PM EDT
[#13]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The best way for a utility to avoid being sued is to cease producing electricity. Clearly cleaning up dry brush around power lines and passing tort reform specific to power generation is not the answer.
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Not when they want customers in an uproar and blaming ambulance chasers.
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 3:36:25 PM EDT
[#14]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
We have a full time dept that's out keeping the lines clear and cleaned from trees brush etc. People complain constantly about us destroying nature....
View Quote
Didn’t PG&E get a ration of shit from the State of California for cutting environmentally protected brush under power lines?
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 3:50:53 PM EDT
[#15]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Didn’t PG&E get a ration of shit from the State of California for cutting environmentally protected brush under power lines?
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I wouldn't doubt it one bit. Those guys at PG&E are fucked no matter what they do or try.
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 3:56:11 PM EDT
[#16]
You get what you get
Link Posted: 6/9/2019 6:11:06 PM EDT
[#17]
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 9:59:26 AM EDT
[#18]
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 10:25:48 AM EDT
[#19]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I don't know a lot about power transmission, but it seems to me that underground lines would make sense in fire-prone areas.  I'm sure the cost is high, but it's one and done as opposed to having to come back and trim vegetation every few years.
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I have very little experience with UG transmission lines, but the one cost study that I saw put the cost at 20 times the price of overhead construction (that was at 69 kV I believe).  It is my understanding that UG transmission has to be in oil encased pipe to mitigate the potential static as well.
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 10:33:07 AM EDT
[#20]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

I have very little experience with UG transmission lines, but the one cost study that I saw put the cost at 20 times the price of overhead construction (that was at 69 kV I believe).  It is my understanding that UG transmission has to be in oil encased pipe to mitigate the potential static as well.
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Not always. There are lots of UG lines that are just in conduit. However like you said they are extremely expensive. Just the cable itself being insulated bumps costs way up. Never mind the digging/boring and other associated costs.

Oil filled lines are even more so.
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 10:33:55 AM EDT
[#21]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Putting electrical under ground is insanely high. putting high voltage is even more so. Wires hanging in free air aid in the cooling of the lines. When its hot out and demand is high, high voltage lines sag like a mofo. As a matter of fact, they hang so low they hit the tops of trees or even the ground, starting fires.
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If your high voltage lines sag to the ground in high demand times, someone needs to be fired (whether that is the designer, the installer or the operator).
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 10:35:29 AM EDT
[#22]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Sue for causing fires, we turn off your power in dry windy conditions. Pretty straightforward outcome.
View Quote
Yup.
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 10:36:17 AM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:
Can they not charge one rate for urban populations, and another rate for these people with high maintenance lines? I can understand city folk not wanting to pay high rates to subsidize the people who choose to live in BFE. I'm sure the people who actually live in these areas would be happy to pay a little more to keep their lights on.
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Unless those city folk have some type of generation next door to them, chances are their power comes from a far away generation facility via transmission lines that run through BFE.
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 10:50:36 AM EDT
[#24]
My Insurance has been canceled because of this... It is now 3x the rate from the bigger companies... We and all neighbors maintain fire breaks as prescribed... We are hoping to sell in next couple of years... We have people running things that could not keep a business a float...
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 10:58:40 AM EDT
[#25]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
My Insurance has been canceled because of this... It is now 3x the rate from the bigger companies... We and all neighbors maintain fire breaks as prescribed... We are hoping to sell in next couple of years... We have people running things that could not keep a business a float...
View Quote
There were quite a few insurance companies that took huge hits last year between the Carr, Ranch, and Camp fires. They are now pulling out of all forest foothill and Mountian areas.

I saw quite a few houses go up that had good fire defence. Ultimately, nothing stops raining embers that are falling from a half mile away from jumping your fire line.

The places that did survive that shouldn't have was a stucco house with metal roof. The fire melted the abs vents out of the roof and rubber gasket around the thresholds. Bad smoke and heat damage. But the houses survived.
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 11:46:27 AM EDT
[#26]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

Unless those city folk have some type of generation next door to them, chances are their power comes from a far away generation facility via transmission lines that run through BFE.
View Quote
The article said lines are shut down based on fire conditions.  If these are the same lines, with the same risk, why do they still have power?  They are either not exposed to the same risk, or everyone is being lied to about the reason for the blackouts.
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 12:07:07 PM EDT
[#27]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
The article said lines are shut down based on fire conditions.  If these are the same lines, with the same risk, why do they still have power?  They are either not exposed to the same risk, or everyone is being lied to about the reason for the blackouts.
View Quote
I have no idea.  I would assume that a transmission system operator would look at the conditions in different area and de-energize lines based on a risk/reward type basis.  i.e.: if you're going to roll the dice on starting a fire, I would think that you would roll the dice on the line that kept the largest quantity of lights on.  But that is pure speculation on my part.  The Illuminati may be calling the shots.  Or the brass at PG&E may go with the South Park federal bailout award selection process.
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 1:12:05 PM EDT
[#28]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
If your high voltage lines sag to the ground in high demand times, someone needs to be fired (whether that is the designer, the installer or the operator).
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:

Putting electrical under ground is insanely high. putting high voltage is even more so. Wires hanging in free air aid in the cooling of the lines. When its hot out and demand is high, high voltage lines sag like a mofo. As a matter of fact, they hang so low they hit the tops of trees or even the ground, starting fires.
If your high voltage lines sag to the ground in high demand times, someone needs to be fired (whether that is the designer, the installer or the operator).
No high voltage line is hitting the ground from temperature differences. Most spans might expand or contract inches( there is math for it. Look it up.  Varies by length, temp, material). It’s why they are set up the way they are. So they can expand and contract.
Link Posted: 6/10/2019 2:46:44 PM EDT
[#29]
Happened today
Link Posted: 6/11/2019 8:00:35 AM EDT
[#30]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
No high voltage line is hitting the ground from temperature differences. Most spans might expand or contract inches( there is math for it. Look it up.  Varies by length, temp, material). It’s why they are set up the way they are. So they can expand and contract.
View Quote
Like I said, if they are on the ground, there is a major problem, but they will sag and decrease vertical clearances by multiple feet going from one extreme to the other.
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