Panama is getting competition - China to fund £25B canal through Nicaragua - Page 2

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Panama is getting competition - China to fund £25B canal through Nicaragua (Page 2 of 2)

Posted: 6/11/2013 1:58:30 PM EDT

[#1]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3HvPczuF6H8/TVwFJJqcAVI/AAAAAAAACFs/Es2_uUg5iK4/s1600/political-pictures-chinese-soldier-epic-fail.jpg

Have at it fellas. As long as America doesn't support this with engineers and trained supervisors, it will fail. Maybe given 40-50 years China will have something resembling a canal, but by that point I (hope) that the US has woken up to the need for finishing the Panama canal widening.

Edit: typo

Don't bet on it. They pulled off the Three Gorges Dam, the canal would be a cake walk by comparison.

And by the time this canal is built they'll need to build a new Three Gorges dam to replace the current one when it collapses. From things I've read about that place, a failure of that dam is a sure thing due to cutting corners and pocketing of funds intended for materials like rebar and concrete. The dam had major cracks and voids with water running inside the earth-fill sections of the structure before they cut the ribbon on the place.

Glad I'm nowhere downstream of that place, cause one good earthquake and it's going to be one really wet mess downstream of that place.

Posted: 6/11/2013 2:00:00 PM EDT

[#2]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3HvPczuF6H8/TVwFJJqcAVI/AAAAAAAACFs/Es2_uUg5iK4/s1600/political-pictures-chinese-soldier-epic-fail.jpg

Have at it fellas. As long as America doesn't support this with engineers and trained supervisors, it will fail. Maybe given 40-50 years China will have something resembling a canal, but by that point I (hope) that the US has woken up to the need for finishing the Panama canal widening.

Edit: typo

Don't bet on it. They pulled off the Three Gorges Dam, the canal would be a cake walk by comparison.

And by the time this canal is built they'll need to build a new Three Gorges dam to replace the current one when it collapses. From things I've read about that place, a failure of that dam is a sure thing due to cutting corners and pocketing of funds intended for materials like rebar and concrete. The dam had major cracks and voids with water running inside the earth-fill sections of the structure before they cut the ribbon on the place.

Glad I'm nowhere downstream of that place, cause one good earthquake and it's going to be one really wet mess downstream of that place.

And Chinese construction companies are building similar dams along the Mekong.

Posted: 6/11/2013 2:01:34 PM EDT

[#3]

It will probably have a bunch of problems.

Posted: 6/11/2013 2:04:14 PM EDT

[#4]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I can see it now the Chinese using it to move there warships through it and setting up a Chinese Naval base right next to it. Maybe even setting up some industry down there too.

Once the Chinese sailors experience the hotness of the local women, the ships will never leave the dock.

I've been to several international destinations with Chinese ships in them. The ships won't be leaving the dock for several other reasons first... namely, being empty and still 6 feet farther below the water line than they should be. Imagine if you relied on pumps that Harbor Freight can't even sell to clear your bilge and you get a good idea on the Chinese merchant marine.

Posted: 6/11/2013 2:06:12 PM EDT

[#5]

They build buildings that fall over. Wonder if this will cause Central American to tip over.

Posted: 6/11/2013 2:18:17 PM EDT

[#6]

Quoted:
They build buildings that fall over. Wonder if this will cause Central American to tip over.

Best get Hank on it!

Posted: 6/11/2013 2:18:56 PM EDT

[#7]

Quoted:

Quoted:
I will be impressed if they can complete the project for 25 billion.

Slave labor is cheap...

They can do a nuke plant for $4B where the identical plant in the US costs $10-12B

They can also build cities in the middle of nowhere where virtually no one lives for billions as well. Doesn't mean we should take any cues from them.

Posted: 6/11/2013 2:24:19 PM EDT

[#8]

It will be blocked by the environmental impact study. Wait,the Commies don't give a shit about the environment.

Posted: 6/11/2013 2:31:25 PM EDT

[#9]

Quoted:
Just do a East to West coast canal right through the U.S.

We tried that. It was called the Florida cross state barge canal. They built some segments then
the enviro's shut it down. Probably would of been a money losing project anyway.

Posted: 6/11/2013 2:51:21 PM EDT

[#10]

Quoted:
They build buildings that fall over. Wonder if this will cause Central American to tip over.

Didn't the Three Gorges Dam alter the rotation of the Earth once it filled? If that happened with a dam then this canal might break the planet completely!

Posted: 6/11/2013 2:56:55 PM EDT

[#11]

Quoted:
I will be impressed if they can complete the project for 25 billion.

Me too. Sounds awful low.

Posted: 6/11/2013 3:01:34 PM EDT

[#12]

Quoted:

Quoted:
They build buildings that fall over. Wonder if this will cause Central American to tip over.

Didn't the Three Gorges Dam alter the rotation of the Earth once it filled? If that happened with a dam then this canal might break the planet completely!

Technically, me jumping alters the Earth's rotation. Both are statistically insignificant in the big picture.

Posted: 6/11/2013 5:48:51 PM EDT

[#13]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3HvPczuF6H8/TVwFJJqcAVI/AAAAAAAACFs/Es2_uUg5iK4/s1600/political-pictures-chinese-soldier-epic-fail.jpg

Have at it fellas. As long as America doesn't support this with engineers and trained supervisors, it will fail. Maybe given 40-50 years China will have something resembling a canal, but by that point I (hope) that the US has woken up to the need for finishing the Panama canal widening.

Edit: typo

Don't bet on it. They pulled off the Three Gorges Dam, the canal would be a cake walk by comparison.

Last I heard the 3GD has some, ah, problems. Nothing that can't be covered up fixed, but still not exactly working as planned.

Posted: 6/11/2013 5:49:26 PM EDT

[#14]

Quoted:

Quoted:
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-3HvPczuF6H8/TVwFJJqcAVI/AAAAAAAACFs/Es2_uUg5iK4/s1600/political-pictures-chinese-soldier-epic-fail.jpg

Have at it fellas. As long as America doesn't support this with engineers and trained supervisors, it will fail. Maybe given 40-50 years China will have something resembling a canal, but by that point I (hope) that the US has woken up to the need for finishing the Panama canal widening.

Edit: typo

Don't bet on it. They pulled off the Three Gorges Dam, the canal would be a cake walk by comparison.

And by the time this canal is built they'll need to build a new Three Gorges dam to replace the current one when it collapses. From things I've read about that place, a failure of that dam is a sure thing due to cutting corners and pocketing of funds intended for materials like rebar and concrete. The dam had major cracks and voids with water running inside the earth-fill sections of the structure before they cut the ribbon on the place.

Glad I'm nowhere downstream of that place, cause one good earthquake and it's going to be one really wet mess downstream of that place.

True, but they did it. Consequences? Well, those may eventually come later....but in the meantime, the Dam is built and they are milking the fuck out of it.

So could they dredge a canal? Absolutely, and if its fucked up so what, unlike the dam it's not even in their own back yard.

Posted: 6/11/2013 5:52:38 PM EDT

[#15]

Quoted:

Quoted:
But if they put a saltwater lock system and canal through a freshwater lake, it will destroy the lake!!! They would never consider destroying the environment for profit and control! Inconceivable!!

I've met a few people who have been to that lake. They say it's spectacularly beautiful, and sure to be ruined if this project is ever completed.

Not that the PRC or los hermanos Ortega care.

No but Costa Rica is up in arms about it. They stand to be impacted by all this tom foolery and aren't happy about it.

Me personally I just think it's some chinese "businessman" running a scam and it'll never get built.

Posted: 6/11/2013 6:24:15 PM EDT

[#16]

Paging James Monroe. President Monroe, please check in at the courtesy desk to issue an update.
Paging President James Monroe.

Posted: 6/11/2013 6:53:19 PM EDT

[#17]

Quoted:

Panama's currency is the US dollar balboa.

Obviously you never did all you can drink night @ Josephines.

Digging a ditch is mucho easier than building a epic proportion water retention reservoir.

Even a harbor freight made in china ditch...is still a ditch.

Posted: 6/11/2013 8:50:33 PM EDT

[#18]

Quoted:

Quoted:
But if they put a saltwater lock system and canal through a freshwater lake, it will destroy the lake!!! They would never consider destroying the environment for profit and control! Inconceivable!!

I've met a few people who have been to that lake. They say it's spectacularly beautiful, and sure to be ruined if this project is ever completed.

Not that the PRC or los hermanos Ortega care.

No but Costa Rica is up in arms about it. They stand to be impacted by all this tom foolery and aren't happy about it.

Me personally I just think it's some chinese "businessman" running a scam and it'll never get built.

It will be partially built, much of the foreign and Chinese money will go missing, the portion of the canal built will be built in manner that is substandard and dangerous. Some people may go to jail or be executed but all the right people in the Chinese.gov will profit and not be touched when the shit hits the fan.

Posted: 6/11/2013 8:55:54 PM EDT

[#19]

Quoted:
Is that the lake that is chock full of maneating Bull Sharks who have adapted to living in "fresh" water permanently?

Chinese don't care. Will make good Shark Fin Soup for them as they build the canal.

Posted: 6/11/2013 9:02:29 PM EDT

[#20]

Quoted:
I can see it now the Chinese using it to move there warships through it and setting up a Chinese Naval base right next to it. Maybe even setting up some industry down there too.

They will try. They want to create a fire in our backyard, and this is their foot in the door. I am sure idiot politicians will let them, and down the road we will all pay for it.

Posted: 6/11/2013 9:05:10 PM EDT

[#21]

Quoted:
Malaria is going to be a Bitch.

Mararia?!!

Do they got a rot of mararia down there?

Posted: 6/11/2013 9:43:27 PM EDT

[#22]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Is that the lake that is chock full of maneating Bull Sharks who have adapted to living in "fresh" water permanently?

Actually, it turns out that Bull sharks can tolerate fresh water. The sharks just cruise up and down the river to the lake.
Wonder how far up the Mississippi or Hudson they could make it?

Alton, IL according to wikipedia.

Posted: 6/12/2013 2:44:22 AM EDT

[#23]

Bull Sharks in Illinois?

Someone needs to shove a few bloated FSA members into the river and give those sharks a taste.

Time Bull Sharks started to do something useful instead of swimming around aimlessly and hamming it up for a cameo on Shark Week.

Posted: 6/12/2013 2:54:09 AM EDT

[#24]

Quoted:
But if they put a saltwater lock system and canal through a freshwater lake, it will destroy the lake!!! They would never consider destroying the environment for profit and control! Inconceivable!!

You are aware that water flows downhill, I hope.

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Posted: 6/12/2013 3:25:04 AM EDT

[#25]

Quoted:
How much y'all want to bet China stations a shitload of troops in Nicaragua to protect their new canal?

Not their style.

Posted: 6/12/2013 3:35:03 AM EDT

[#26]

Quoted:
Did the Monroe doctrine die? When?

It did not help the Monroe Doctrine when Reagan facilitated Thatcher's deployment into Argentina during the Falklands War. Especially since the doctrine was specifically designed to keep Britain and Russia out of our hemisphere. Reagan was the best we've had, but just sayin'.

Posted: 6/12/2013 3:37:28 AM EDT

[#27]

Quoted:
As soon as Clinton honored Jimmuh Carter's signaway of our Panama Canal, the Chinese occupied the locks and management company that we used to run the canal zone. They had prepared for it for decades.

Another canal fully-controlled by China means they get to call the shots. Communist Daniel Ortega was supposed to leave office last year, and yet he still is in power. Why no coverage on that?

http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2013/06/11/article-2339521-1A43F40D000005DC-580_634x504.jpg

A canal through Nicaragua will reduce shipping costs, as it cuts out several hundred miles of oceanic travel to go down to Panama. This was a consideration back in the 1800's, but France sold its interests in Panama to the US at a reasonable cost, which is why we went there instead. Here's the 1800's proposal:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/76/NicaraguaCanalPanorama.jpg

I was stationed in Ft Davis, Panama '93 - '95. The Chinese were already started to exercise control at that point in time. They are pretty damned close to completing the renovations to include the larger locks to fit the larger cargo ships currently in use.

Posted: 6/12/2013 3:38:15 AM EDT

[#28]

Having been to Nicaragua many times there are lots of bridges in the area built by the Chinese and gifted to the Nicaraguans.( signs on the bridges tell you this)

I have a friend who works in a T shirt factory in Managua that is owned by the Chinese.

Apparently the poor Nicaraguan people work for less money than the poor Chinese so it was profitable for them to open a factory there.

There is a plan to build a bridge East of San Carlos across the Rio San Juan into Costa Rica.

This bridge will open the area up to tourism as there currently is only one road into Costa Rica from Nicaragua and that is Highway 1 on the East coast near San Juan del Sur.

Posted: 6/12/2013 3:38:16 AM EDT

[#29]

Quoted:
I can see it now the Chinese using it to move there warships through it and setting up a Chinese Naval base right next to it. Maybe even setting up some industry down there too.

It will give better access for mega tankers to Venezuela and the hundreds of drilling rigs that the Chinese will have in the Gulf of Mexico and Cuban waters.

Posted: 6/12/2013 3:41:26 AM EDT

[#30]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is very interesting. The Chinese all but run the Panama Canal now (thanks to that fucking idiot Jimmy P-Nut

) When I was in Panama a few years back the people I talked to didnt like the Chinese much and would have preferred the US to stay around. When we left it really hurt the local economy. They are in the process of building a 2nd canal alongside the first so that larger Post-Panamax ships can use it and be able to go straight to the US east coast and Europe without going through the Suez Canal or using intermodal trains.

The Chinese have the money to do this (our money by the way) and if thats what they want to do then so be it. If there is ever a war that comes around and has to do with the canals hopefully this country is still strong enough to take or destroy them if necessary.

Who's got more of who's money? lol.

We sold them how much in Treasure Notes?

Yeah, I've a bit confused. I thought the borrowed used the lender's money, not the other way around.

What's the motivation for China doing this if they already have control over Panama? It's about as far for Chinese shipping to get to Panama as it is for it to get to southern Europe through the Suez, so I can't see them making great use of this. Are their ships too large for the Suez, forcing them to go around Africa?

To distract the people. You can only build so many ghost towns.

Posted: 6/12/2013 3:43:38 AM EDT

[#31]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Panama's currency is the US dollar balboa.

Obviously you never did all you can drink night @ Josephines.

Digging a ditch is mucho easier than building a epic proportion water retention reservoir.

Even a harbor freight made in china ditch...is still a ditch.

Somewhere I have a T-shirt from that place.

Posted: 6/12/2013 4:02:06 AM EDT

[#32]

Quoted:

Quoted:

Malaria is going to be a Bitch.

China has enough peasants to make it work. This might be part of their population control program.

I'd be more concerned they'll pull a UAE and move lots of dirt poor Malaysians to the area. Resulting in a growing foothold of islamists right smack dab in the middle of a bunch of unstable or commie or both countries on our doorstep.

Mainland Chinese I am fine with, they seem to turn into capitalists pretty quick and can be dealt with. Religious radicalism isn't so clear on what would happen next. Chinese influence would just make a place for rich Chinese to go spend money. No big deal.

Posted: 6/12/2013 4:08:17 AM EDT

[#33]

Quoted:

Quoted:
Did the Monroe doctrine die? When?

It did not help the Monroe Doctrine when Reagan facilitated Thatcher's deployment into Argentina during the Falklands War. Especially since the doctrine was specifically designed to keep Britain and Russia out of our hemisphere. Reagan was the best we've had, but just sayin'.

Your history teachers failed you.

The Monroe Doctrine was an attempt to keep European power from further colonizing the Americas. It had nothing to do with either foreign investments in American infrastructure nor was it intended to deprive European powers of colonies that existed at the time.

The Monroe Doctrine had the support of England, which means they wouldn't have supported it had it been contrary to their interests in places like the Falklands.

Posted: 6/12/2013 4:14:46 AM EDT

[#34]

Quoted:
Did the Monroe doctrine die? When?

Under Bubba who was too busy chasing skirts than attending to the nation.

Posted: 6/12/2013 4:54:21 AM EDT

[#35]

Quoted:

Quoted:
This is very interesting. The Chinese all but run the Panama Canal now (thanks to that fucking idiot Jimmy P-Nut

) When I was in Panama a few years back the people I talked to didnt like the Chinese much and would have preferred the US to stay around. When we left it really hurt the local economy. They are in the process of building a 2nd canal alongside the first so that larger Post-Panamax ships can use it and be able to go straight to the US east coast and Europe without going through the Suez Canal or using intermodal trains.

The Chinese have the money to do this (our money by the way) and if thats what they want to do then so be it. If there is ever a war that comes around and has to do with the canals hopefully this country is still strong enough to take or destroy them if necessary.

Who's got more of who's money? lol.

We sold them how much in Treasure Notes?

Yeah, I've a bit confused. I thought the borrowed used the lender's money, not the other way around.

What's the motivation for China doing this if they already have control over Panama? It's about as far for Chinese shipping to get to Panama as it is for it to get to southern Europe through the Suez, so I can't see them making great use of this. Are their ships too large for the Suez, forcing them to go around Africa?

I sailed on one of the largest vessels able yo transit the Suez canal. We were 1090' long and 190' wide. We could only go though empty, with a draft of about 39'. Loaded at 72' we had to go around South Africa.
The new Maersk super container ships are bigger but not as deep. I'm sure the Chinese have plans for even bigger.

Emma Maersk

Posted: 6/12/2013 6:29:11 AM EDT

[#36]

Good. Twenty five years after it is completed the Nicaraguans will nationalize it and China will know what it's like.

[ARCHIVED THREAD] - Panama is getting competition - China to fund £25B canal through Nicaragua (Page 2 of 2)

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