User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
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Posted: 5/31/2023 8:36:41 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
FPC Statement Regarding Membership 
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Posted: 5/31/2023 9:55:29 AM EDT
[#2]
So, if you receive a rejection AFTER today, are you shit out of luck for the free stamp or will there be an opportunity to resubmit?
Asking for a friend. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 10:07:30 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, if you receive a rejection AFTER today, are you shit out of luck for the free stamp or will there be an opportunity to resubmit? Asking for a friend. You will be able to re-submit via paper form. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 10:44:17 AM EDT
[#4]
Man, good thing I saw this thread...
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Posted: 5/31/2023 10:46:49 AM EDT
[#5]
The actual injunction reads that anything tantamount to a nation wide injunction is denied. It’s very clear.
Yet all anyone has to do is join FPC to be covered? Anyone nation wide? According to FPC that is…. Hmmm Seems odd, but I don’t know anything and certainly am not a lawyer. Either way, I hope FPC gets lots of donations. Good group. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 10:56:41 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The actual injunction reads that anything tantamount to a nation wide injunction is denied. It’s very clear. Yet all anyone has to do is join FPC to be covered? Anyone nation wide? According to FPC that is…. Hmmm Seems odd, but I don’t know anything and certainly am not a lawyer. Either way, I hope FPC gets lots of donations. Good group. The issue I see is will they allow those holding onto hope with the FPC suit to register after the 31st if their suit fails? I'm sure the ATF will do all they can be difficult assholes to anyone in that position. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 11:00:24 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The issue I see is will they allow those holding onto hope with the FPC suit to register after the 31st if their suit fails? I'm sure the ATF will do all they can be difficult assholes to anyone in that position. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The actual injunction reads that anything tantamount to a nation wide injunction is denied. It’s very clear. Yet all anyone has to do is join FPC to be covered? Anyone nation wide? According to FPC that is…. Hmmm Seems odd, but I don’t know anything and certainly am not a lawyer. Either way, I hope FPC gets lots of donations. Good group. The issue I see is will they allow those holding onto hope with the FPC suit to register after the 31st if their suit fails? I'm sure the ATF will do all they can be difficult assholes to anyone in that position. Why would anyone do that? Those that would comply have done so for the most part. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 11:05:03 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those that would comply have done so for the most part. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 11:15:49 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd be willing to bet that there are millions of brace-equipped pistol owners out there that have no idea this is going on. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Those that would comply have done so for the most part. I'd be willing to bet that there are millions of brace-equipped pistol owners out there that have no idea this is going on. You both basically said the same thing. If even 10% of people who own a braced gun are aware of this I'd be amazed. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 11:59:33 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd be willing to bet that there are millions of brace-equipped pistol owners out there that have no idea this is going on. I know someone that doesn’t know about the bumpstocks. I wouldn’t even tell him cause he wouldn’t believe me. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 12:24:12 PM EDT
[#11]
I got my form in yesterday, went through suprinsgly easily, I used openeft for my prints.
Had a bad taste the whole time but said oh well I want to get a suppressor anyway  , that with I had more than 1 to do to take as much tax revenue from the ATF as I can.Joined the FPC too for all the work they have done. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 12:28:43 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would anyone do that? Those that would comply have done so for the most part. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: The actual injunction reads that anything tantamount to a nation wide injunction is denied. It’s very clear. Yet all anyone has to do is join FPC to be covered? Anyone nation wide? According to FPC that is…. Hmmm Seems odd, but I don’t know anything and certainly am not a lawyer. Either way, I hope FPC gets lots of donations. Good group. The issue I see is will they allow those holding onto hope with the FPC suit to register after the 31st if their suit fails? I'm sure the ATF will do all they can be difficult assholes to anyone in that position. Why would anyone do that? Those that would comply have done so for the most part. I'm sure there are quite a few FPC members who think if it fails they could still comply and register. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 12:29:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd be willing to bet that there are millions of brace-equipped pistol owners out there that have no idea this is going on. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Those that would comply have done so for the most part. I'd be willing to bet that there are millions of brace-equipped pistol owners out there that have no idea this is going on. Didn't think of them and you are probably correct. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 12:35:46 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, if you receive a rejection AFTER today, are you shit out of luck for the free stamp or will there be an opportunity to resubmit? Asking for a friend. Tell your friend there is no "free stamp." There is a tax-free, "conditional" registration. Depending on the reason for the rejection, you (or your) friend can resubmit. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 12:43:36 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure there are quite a few FPC members who think if it fails they could still comply and register. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 12:45:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They can but they'll have to pay the $200. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm sure there are quite a few FPC members who think if it fails they could still comply and register. And engrave |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 1:00:23 PM EDT
[#17]
Removing the brace off the pistol makes things kosher, right? I’m also a FPC member.
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Posted: 5/31/2023 1:01:38 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Removing the brace off the pistol makes things kosher, right? I’m also a FPC member. Now they're saying remove and destroy, at least that's the latest I've heard. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 1:06:57 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Now they're saying remove and destroy, at least that's the latest I've heard. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Removing the brace off the pistol makes things kosher, right? I’m also a FPC member. Now they're saying remove and destroy, at least that's the latest I've heard. The ATF has flip flopped on this (shocking I know) but it makes zero sense that you have to destroy a brace if they are claiming that braces are (always were) stocks. If you have a rifle then you have a gun to legally use the brace on Unless theyre going to try to defend in court the idea that you cannot have an AR pistol so long as you own a rifle with a removeable stock |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 1:58:14 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Removing the brace off the pistol makes things kosher, right? I'm also a FPC member. If you just remove the brace you could still be in legal jeopardy. 27. Can I possess a pistol and unattached "stabilizing brace"? An NFA firearm need not be assembled to be regulated as such. Whether a person may be in constructive possession of an NFA firearm depends on the facts of a particular case. Quoted: Now they're saying remove and destroy, at least that's the latest I've heard. They've always said remove and destroy. I think the confusion came from the ATF Director's testimony at a Congressional hearing where he didn't know or failed to clearly articulate the compliance options and seemed to say the brace need not be destroyed. If ATF issued a clarification on that point I haven't seen it. 4. What are the compliance options for an individual (non-licensee) in possession of a firearm equipped with a "stabilizing brace," which is a short-barreled rifle (SBR), after the effective date of the final rule? Submit through the eForms system an Application to Make and Register a Firearm, ATF Form 1 (E-Form 1) before May 31, 2023. Permanently remove or alter the "stabilizing brace" so that it cannot be reattached and thereby removing it from regulation as a "firearm" under the NFA. Remove the short barrel and attach a 16-inch or longer rifled barrel to the firearm thus removing it from the provisions of the NFA. Turn the firearm into your local ATF office. Destroy the firearm. For more information go to How to Properly Destroy Firearms | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (atf.gov). Full ATF FAQ . |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 2:19:43 PM EDT
[#21]
FPC, if you donated your a member?
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Posted: 5/31/2023 2:31:13 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: FPC, if you donated your a member? From their site "LAS VEGAS, NV (May 30, 2023) — Today, Firearms Policy Coalition (FPC) issued a statement regarding membership: On Sunday, May 28, 2023, the Board of Directors of Firearms Policy Coalition made a number of formal changes to the membership structure of the organization. First, the Board granted an Individual Membership to all individual monetary donors of FPC who have supported FPC’s activities through financial contribution(s) of twenty U.S. Dollars ($20) or more from June 1, 2022, through May 31, 2023, inclusive. Those memberships will have an effective date of June 1, 2022, and an expiration date of December 31, 2023, unless the Individual Member renews the granted membership on or before the end of 2023. This granted membership will ensure that all individuals who supported the work of the organization in the period with a financial contribution of $20 or more are officially recognized by FPC as an Individual Member. FPC will update its membership records accordingly on or about June 1, 2023, and then send a message confirming the granted membership status to all such individuals by email as soon as possible. This one-time donor membership program will not affect the membership term of current FPC members." |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 2:33:40 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'd be willing to bet that there are millions of brace-equipped pistol owners out there that have no idea this is going on. Yep. Couple of us at work were talking about this the other day. Boss chimed in and said he has a braced pistol under his bed. He was shocked when I told him about the atf ruling bullshit. He had no idea. He’s chosen not to comply. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 2:57:31 PM EDT
[#24]
Donated. Member.
I’m not registering anything as a freebie. I have chosen not to play the game. Back to 16" barrel until this shit gets sorted out. They are actually getting shit done so they deserve some financial help. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 3:18:00 PM EDT
[#25]
Anyone tried to register using a trust? Seems like they make it intentionally a PITA...
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Posted: 5/31/2023 3:48:27 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone tried to register using a trust? Seems like they make it intentionally a PITA... |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 4:07:52 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Anyone tried to register using a trust? Seems like they make it intentionally a PITA... There is a thread in tech. Here |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 4:10:45 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you just remove the brace you could still be in legal jeopardy. 27. Can I possess a pistol and unattached "stabilizing brace"? An NFA firearm need not be assembled to be regulated as such. Whether a person may be in constructive possession of an NFA firearm depends on the facts of a particular case. They've always said remove and destroy. I think the confusion came from the ATF Director's testimony at a Congressional hearing where he didn't know or failed to clearly articulate the compliance options and seemed to say the brace need not be destroyed. If ATF issued a clarification on that point I haven't seen it. 4. What are the compliance options for an individual (non-licensee) in possession of a firearm equipped with a "stabilizing brace," which is a short-barreled rifle (SBR), after the effective date of the final rule? Submit through the eForms system an Application to Make and Register a Firearm, ATF Form 1 (E-Form 1) before May 31, 2023. Permanently remove or alter the "stabilizing brace" so that it cannot be reattached and thereby removing it from regulation as a "firearm" under the NFA. Remove the short barrel and attach a 16-inch or longer rifled barrel to the firearm thus removing it from the provisions of the NFA. Turn the firearm into your local ATF office. Destroy the firearm. For more information go to How to Properly Destroy Firearms | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (atf.gov). Full ATF FAQ . Having a spare takeoff brace is no different than destroying the brace but having spare takeoff stocks for other rifles. The above answer is disingenuous, and it is doubtful that the ATF would win a case like that in court. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 4:11:25 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Removing the brace off the pistol makes things kosher, right? I’m also a FPC member. Essentially yes. Though if they are stored together, there is potential for awkwardness. As to FPC, that's nice, but just note it's a temporary injunction so judge can have more time to assess. It also doesn't extend the ATF forbarance window. Neither the "free SBR" ("corrot"), nor the "braces were intended to be stocks as of June 1" (stick) are actually linked and dependant on the other. The FPC injunction is a judicial temporary pause on the enforcement of that interpretation ("the stick"), and that's all. (Corrot still goes away tomorrow, though who knows - ATF is motivated to get those numbers up, so not impossible they might proactively chose to extend it, though that will take an updated letter from USAG Garland, to whom has "The discretion" to offer the forebarance (not some ATF clerk); or the judge specifically stating he is using his judicial authority to extend it - which I think he can do, and probably won't be fought even if he cant - though don't bank on him doing that) If your plan was to register if you have to, you basically have today to decide what you are going to do; regardless of FPC membership. (Though good shit you joined - they are more active and effective than most). If your plan was to alter, or to not-comply; then there you go; you are not to face enforcement action on an armbrace equiped firearm for the duration of the temporary injunction. Regardless, I doubt anyone is going to come out of the blue to ask you about it now or in the near future either way. .. probably. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 4:12:51 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Donated. Member. I’m not registering anything as a freebie. I have chosen not to play the game. Back to 16" barrel until this shit gets sorted out. They are actually getting shit done so they deserve some financial help. You're playing the game by switching to a 16" barrel. Totally your perogative, but you're playing. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 4:21:38 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Removing the brace off the pistol makes things kosher, right? I’m also a FPC member. Then there is no need to remove anything, you're good to go. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 4:23:25 PM EDT
[#32]
I have a lower, purchased as "Other". Built it in like 2019 or so with the intent of making it a pistol. Have a blade style brace on the lower, but never purchased the upper.
Never had an upper on it. Just the lower and the brace blade. I have no pistol uppers what so ever. All my AR's have 16" or longer. I am thinking I can remove the blade and just cut it up and be good. Wonder if I should toss the pieces in a box in case I get questioned about it or if I can toss it in the fire pit... |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 4:25:39 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you just remove the brace you could still be in legal jeopardy. 27. Can I possess a pistol and unattached "stabilizing brace"? An NFA firearm need not be assembled to be regulated as such. Whether a person may be in constructive possession of an NFA firearm depends on the facts of a particular case. They've always said remove and destroy. I think the confusion came from the ATF Director's testimony at a Congressional hearing where he didn't know or failed to clearly articulate the compliance options and seemed to say the brace need not be destroyed. If ATF issued a clarification on that point I haven't seen it. 4. What are the compliance options for an individual (non-licensee) in possession of a firearm equipped with a "stabilizing brace," which is a short-barreled rifle (SBR), after the effective date of the final rule? Submit through the eForms system an Application to Make and Register a Firearm, ATF Form 1 (E-Form 1) before May 31, 2023. Permanently remove or alter the "stabilizing brace" so that it cannot be reattached and thereby removing it from regulation as a "firearm" under the NFA. Remove the short barrel and attach a 16-inch or longer rifled barrel to the firearm thus removing it from the provisions of the NFA. Turn the firearm into your local ATF office. Destroy the firearm. For more information go to How to Properly Destroy Firearms | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (atf.gov). Full ATF FAQ . Same as anything SBR related. You need a legal place to use the parts. If you have an SBR or a rifle you have a legal item to use a brace on and can own as many as you want. If you ONLY own an AR pistol, and remove the brace, they could potentially have a constructive possession case. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 4:31:29 PM EDT
[#34]
JFC the ATF is so retarded. Strike that, our government is retarded, and hates the good folks.
Can we just nuke them from orbit already? Lets go back before all these arbitrary and capricious laws. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 4:46:36 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Having a spare takeoff brace is no different than destroying the brace but having spare takeoff stocks for other rifles. The above answer is disingenuous, and it is doubtful that the ATF would win a case like that in court. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: If you just remove the brace you could still be in legal jeopardy. 27. Can I possess a pistol and unattached "stabilizing brace"? An NFA firearm need not be assembled to be regulated as such. Whether a person may be in constructive possession of an NFA firearm depends on the facts of a particular case. They've always said remove and destroy. I think the confusion came from the ATF Director's testimony at a Congressional hearing where he didn't know or failed to clearly articulate the compliance options and seemed to say the brace need not be destroyed. If ATF issued a clarification on that point I haven't seen it. 4. What are the compliance options for an individual (non-licensee) in possession of a firearm equipped with a "stabilizing brace," which is a short-barreled rifle (SBR), after the effective date of the final rule? Submit through the eForms system an Application to Make and Register a Firearm, ATF Form 1 (E-Form 1) before May 31, 2023. Permanently remove or alter the "stabilizing brace" so that it cannot be reattached and thereby removing it from regulation as a "firearm" under the NFA. Remove the short barrel and attach a 16-inch or longer rifled barrel to the firearm thus removing it from the provisions of the NFA. Turn the firearm into your local ATF office. Destroy the firearm. For more information go to How to Properly Destroy Firearms | Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (atf.gov). Full ATF FAQ . Having a spare takeoff brace is no different than destroying the brace but having spare takeoff stocks for other rifles. The above answer is disingenuous, and it is doubtful that the ATF would win a case like that in court. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 4:48:25 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have a lower, purchased as "Other". Built it in like 2019 or so with the intent of making it a pistol. Have a blade style brace on the lower, but never purchased the upper. Never had an upper on it. Just the lower and the brace blade. Really does bring up "when was a stripped lower 'made' into a pistol"? Example: I have been meaning to build a particular AR frame into a functional gun for years. • I have a bare lower, sold to me as an "other" or "receiver only" in 2019. • I have a SB brace, and a dated receipt from SB tactical showing I got the brace for it in 2020. • I have a 12" upper and bolt in the same box. Got that also in 2020. • I never did put any trigger/bolt catch/buffer tube/etc. into the lower. ATF FAQ says Q: "If my short-barreled rifle (SBR) is made after the date of publication of the final rule, can I still register it as an SBR for free during the tax forbearance period?" A: "No. The registration options available to a possessor of such firearm applies to those possessed as of January 31, 2023" I could see ATF in their current make-it-up-as-we-go claiming that pistol wasn't "possessed" prior to Jan 31, 2023 if it wasn't fully built up to be able to shoot. Sigh. |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 5:56:47 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Removing the brace off the pistol makes things kosher, right? I'm also a FPC member. Now they're saying remove and destroy, at least that's the latest I've heard. That's changed? |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 7:01:34 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I thought that one cum guzzling ATF guy in front of congress said all you need to do is remove it. That's changed? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Removing the brace off the pistol makes things kosher, right? I'm also a FPC member. Now they're saying remove and destroy, at least that's the latest I've heard. That's changed? I'm pretty sure they said as much in this training presentation from a while back too, but without watching it again I don't have a time stamp.  ATF Brace Rule Training - 01/31/23 |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 7:36:55 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Really does bring up "when was a stripped lower 'made' into a pistol"? Example: I have been meaning to build a particular AR frame into a functional gun for years. • I have a bare lower, sold to me as an "other" or "receiver only" in 2019. • I have a SB brace, and a dated receipt from SB tactical showing I got the brace for it in 2020. • I have a 12" upper and bolt in the same box. Got that also in 2020. • I never did put any trigger/bolt catch/buffer tube/etc. into the lower. ATF FAQ says Q: "If my short-barreled rifle (SBR) is made after the date of publication of the final rule, can I still register it as an SBR for free during the tax forbearance period?" A: "No. The registration options available to a possessor of such firearm applies to those possessed as of January 31, 2023" I could see ATF in their current make-it-up-as-we-go claiming that pistol wasn't "possessed" prior to Jan 31, 2023 if it wasn't fully built up to be able to shoot. Sigh. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have a lower, purchased as "Other". Built it in like 2019 or so with the intent of making it a pistol. Have a blade style brace on the lower, but never purchased the upper. Never had an upper on it. Just the lower and the brace blade. Really does bring up "when was a stripped lower 'made' into a pistol"? Example: I have been meaning to build a particular AR frame into a functional gun for years. • I have a bare lower, sold to me as an "other" or "receiver only" in 2019. • I have a SB brace, and a dated receipt from SB tactical showing I got the brace for it in 2020. • I have a 12" upper and bolt in the same box. Got that also in 2020. • I never did put any trigger/bolt catch/buffer tube/etc. into the lower. ATF FAQ says Q: "If my short-barreled rifle (SBR) is made after the date of publication of the final rule, can I still register it as an SBR for free during the tax forbearance period?" A: "No. The registration options available to a possessor of such firearm applies to those possessed as of January 31, 2023" I could see ATF in their current make-it-up-as-we-go claiming that pistol wasn't "possessed" prior to Jan 31, 2023 if it wasn't fully built up to be able to shoot. Sigh. Owning a receiver, barrel, and brace are all that it takes, they don't even have to be assembled. Constructive possession goes both ways. Kharn |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 7:45:56 PM EDT
[#40]
Just stopping by to say I'm not complying. Come arrest me ATF.
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Posted: 5/31/2023 8:18:27 PM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 5/31/2023 8:32:32 PM EDT
[#42]
Reference numbers going up by 30 per minute right now...
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Posted: 5/31/2023 8:54:05 PM EDT
[#43]
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Posted: 5/31/2023 8:55:07 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Reference numbers going up by 30 per minute right now... Serfs |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 8:59:39 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Owning a receiver, barrel, and brace are all that it takes, they don't even have to be assembled. Constructive possession goes both ways. Kharn So here’s the rub. If you have other C3 Sbr’s how can they prove they are not spares for those. Sounds like it’s unenforceable in this situation |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 9:02:20 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So here’s the rub. If you have other C3 Sbr’s how can they prove they are not spares for those. Sounds like it’s unenforceable in this situation Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Owning a receiver, barrel, and brace are all that it takes, they don't even have to be assembled. Constructive possession goes both ways. Kharn So here’s the rub. If you have other C3 Sbr’s how can they prove they are not spares for those. Sounds like it’s unenforceable in this situation They're supposed to attempt to assemble everything into legal configurations, and then see if anything leftover makes illegal configurations. I guess the outcome depends on how much shit you've bought from PSA on sale without paying attention to what you've got.  Kharn |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 9:03:16 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Serfs What’s the current value of 40 pieces of silver? Has to be more than $200… |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 9:06:27 PM EDT
[#48]
TX v ATF was granted an injunction, PDF at link
It is valid for the plaintiff named Brady Brown, GOA & Gun Owners Foundation, their current members and their resident family members, and individuals employed directly by the State of Texas or its agencies. Kharn |
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Posted: 5/31/2023 9:08:05 PM EDT
[#49]
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Posted: 5/31/2023 9:15:09 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just stopping by to say I'm not complying. Come arrest me ATF. 
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