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Posted: 7/31/2023 5:54:23 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have the exact same problem. Log in works fine, It lets me select the form under pending but shows zero forms in the listing. I sent a ticket to them and they replied back that they can see them in pending on their end. They didn’t offer any help as to why the system isn’t displaying them on my end. VPN on? 
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Posted: 8/1/2023 4:24:27 PM EST
[#2]
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Posted: 8/1/2023 4:33:07 PM EST
[#3]
Those that remain...
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Posted: 8/1/2023 4:35:37 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
 Attached File |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 4:40:22 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryThis is beyond BIGLY!! |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 4:47:52 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Those that remain... Sucks for all the cucks. |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 4:49:24 PM EST
[#7]
OUTSTANDING!
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Posted: 8/1/2023 4:58:50 PM EST
[#8]
 This is big. |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 5:00:19 PM EST
[#9]
So everybody gets to put their brace back on?
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Posted: 8/1/2023 5:05:40 PM EST
[#10]
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Posted: 8/1/2023 5:06:28 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are some very positive words in that ruling to remand it. Now it is 60 days in the District Court to be heard. Then another appeal to the Circuit. |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 5:09:43 PM EST
[#12]
So much win, glad I gave FPC money!
If the rule is unconstutional, so is the grace period for muh frreee SBR folks. Hello ATF coming door to door to collect 
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Posted: 8/1/2023 5:10:31 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There are some very positive words in that ruling to remand it. Now it is 60 days in the District Court to be heard. Then another appeal to the Circuit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted:
There are some very positive words in that ruling to remand it. Now it is 60 days in the District Court to be heard. Then another appeal to the Circuit. They just took the leash off the 5th circuit judges in question. With this remarkable rulling, their is zero question what that judge is now going to do. 5th circuit is going to be ban free. For years - maybe forever. I don't think USSC is going to back 5th on this, but they might. More likely, they'll just leave them alone, defacto leaving this change standing. Wow |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 5:44:51 PM EST
[#14]
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Posted: 8/1/2023 5:49:50 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Great news!
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Posted: 8/1/2023 5:53:44 PM EST
[#16]
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Posted: 8/1/2023 5:58:24 PM EST
[#17]
[Deleted]
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Posted: 8/1/2023 6:37:06 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
inb4 those who complied come into this thread and seethe lmao |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 6:49:03 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: inb4 those who complied come into this thread and seethe lmao |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 6:51:58 PM EST
[#20]
Glad to see my donations are paying dividends. About time!
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Posted: 8/1/2023 7:02:37 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So everybody gets to put their brace back on? uh... yeah... back on...  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 7:07:46 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So much win, glad I gave FPC money! If the rule is unconstutional, so is the grace period for muh frreee SBR folks. Hello ATF coming door to door to collect It doesn't work that way. |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 7:11:34 PM EST
[#23]
 BREAKING JUST NOW: Pistol Brace Rule FOUND LIKELY UNCONSTITUTIONAL… 
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Posted: 8/1/2023 7:16:14 PM EST
[#24]
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Posted: 8/1/2023 7:21:42 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So everybody gets to put their brace back on? "back on...." SensibleChuckle.gif |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 7:26:23 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would we seethe? This has been my prediction all along. I'm stoked as it's going even faster than I expected. Yeah this is best case scenario. Back to being a pistol instead of an SBR is a million times better for me. |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 7:32:16 PM EST
[#27]
So still a very narrow interpretation and if upheld will only apply to the fifth circuit and not a national relief?
Do I have all that correct? |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 7:38:49 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would we seethe? This has been my prediction all along. I'm stoked as it's going even faster than I expected. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: inb4 those who complied come into this thread and seethe lmao The same reason people with a license to carry were seething when constitutional carry passed. lol Never mind that the biggest supporters of constitutional carry had LTCs in the meantime (and maybe still do for reciprocity and NICS skip.) |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 7:39:38 PM EST
[#29]
The decision is technical and dependent on atf not using the process correctly.
It doesn't say they can't make braces sbrs. So if that holds up in the trial on merits the atf just starts the process over asap? |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 7:44:09 PM EST
[#30]
The 3 judge panel took 3 different views.
The majority said the rule should be tossed on technicality. The assent said it is also fundamentally unconstitutional. The dissent said the rule should stand. |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 7:47:55 PM EST
[#31]
So if I had one of these evil devices as of today am I a Felon or a Free Man again?
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Posted: 8/1/2023 7:49:28 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The decision is technical and dependent on atf not using the process correctly. It doesn't say they can't make braces sbrs. So if that holds up in the trial on merits the atf just starts the process over asap? The process being they can't make law. Your statement is incorrect. You are confusing the mention of the flaws in the process as THE flaw. |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 7:54:32 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The decision is technical and dependent on atf not using the process correctly. It doesn't say they can't make braces sbrs. So if that holds up in the trial on merits the atf just starts the process over asap? The judges quoted the ATF themselves from 2012 when the ATF said that braces DO NOT make pistols SBR's. |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 8:01:06 PM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The process being they can't make law. Your statement is incorrect. You are confusing the mention of the flaws in the process as THE flaw. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The decision is technical and dependent on atf not using the process correctly. It doesn't say they can't make braces sbrs. So if that holds up in the trial on merits the atf just starts the process over asap? The process being they can't make law. Your statement is incorrect. You are confusing the mention of the flaws in the process as THE flaw. That is absolutely not the basis of the ruling. The majority ruling was the the rule was 'legislative' and that's ok except the final rule was too technically different from the proposed rule. |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 9:09:48 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The judges quoted the ATF themselves from 2012 when the ATF said that braces DO NOT make pistols SBR's. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The decision is technical and dependent on atf not using the process correctly. It doesn't say they can't make braces sbrs. So if that holds up in the trial on merits the atf just starts the process over asap? The judges quoted the ATF themselves from 2012 when the ATF said that braces DO NOT make pistols SBR's. That was part of the justification for considering the rule 'legislative'. If it's 'legislative' then the APA rules are more strict for posting, responses, etc. I don't claim to understand it all in depth but that is what's in the ruling. |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 9:42:23 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That was part of the justification for considering the rule 'legislative'. If it's 'legislative' then the APA rules are more strict for posting, responses, etc. I don't claim to understand it all in depth but that is what's in the ruling. I didn't think that particular part was part of the 5 point "legislative" test. I thought that part (and the repeated mentions of flip-flopping and the SB-Mini) was just the court kicking the ATF in the sack for fun, and I enjoyed every word of it.  I think the legislative test starts in on page 23, and runs through page 31, and then is turn to "logical out-growth". IANAL, but it sure was a good read! (Well, the decent was stupid and circular). |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 10:34:24 PM EST
[#37]
So what's the consensus here? Is this going to be another 5th circuit win like the bumpstocks and the rest of us get left in the cold when SCOTUS never takes it up?
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Posted: 8/1/2023 10:39:08 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what's the consensus here? Is this going to be another 5th circuit win like the bumpstocks and the rest of us get left in the cold when SCOTUS never takes it up? Neither of them are a win until we can go into our LGS and buy a bump stock and or a braced pistol and walk out with it. Both of these rules are intended to target manufacturers and proliferation more than current owners. Communists are always after your children's rights, as much, or more so, than ours. FPC earned another $50 from me today. |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 10:46:49 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what's the consensus here? Is this going to be another 5th circuit win like the bumpstocks and the rest of us get left in the cold when SCOTUS never takes it up? Currently this is just a remand to the lower court. It has a long way to go. After remand, I still expect the lower court to find against FPC, then an appeal goes to the circuit court at which point we probably win. Then ATF appeals higher, and the en banc hearing goes in FPC's favor. Then ATF appeals to the supreme court and the case doesn't get taken unless another district court has already ruled the ATF's rule is lawful. |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 10:50:52 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So everybody gets to put their brace back on? Never took it off. |
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Posted: 8/1/2023 11:12:10 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The supreme court probably won't take the case without a circuit split. Currently this is just a remand to the lower court. It has a long way to go. After remand, I still expect the lower court to find against FPC, then an appeal goes to the circuit court at which point we probably win. Then ATF appeals higher, and the en banc hearing goes in FPC's favor. Then ATF appeals to the supreme court and the case doesn't get taken unless another district court has already ruled the ATF's rule is lawful. Okay thanks for that explanation. I guess that's probably not going to happen before the current makeup of the court is changed. 
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Posted: 8/1/2023 11:15:27 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Never took it off. We were supposed to take them off? |
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Posted: 8/2/2023 12:21:09 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The supreme court probably won't take the case without a circuit split. Currently this is just a remand to the lower court. It has a long way to go. After remand, I still expect the lower court to find against FPC, then an appeal goes to the circuit court at which point we probably win. Then ATF appeals higher, and the en banc hearing goes in FPC's favor. Then ATF appeals to the supreme court and the case doesn't get taken unless another district court has already ruled the ATF's rule is lawful. My apologize, that's reference the Frame and Receiver rule. |
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Posted: 8/2/2023 12:32:59 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ATF already filed an emergency appeal to the SCOTUS, tomorrow briefs are due to Justice Alito. Friday he rules by 5pm EST. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The supreme court probably won't take the case without a circuit split. Currently this is just a remand to the lower court. It has a long way to go. After remand, I still expect the lower court to find against FPC, then an appeal goes to the circuit court at which point we probably win. Then ATF appeals higher, and the en banc hearing goes in FPC's favor. Then ATF appeals to the supreme court and the case doesn't get taken unless another district court has already ruled the ATF's rule is lawful. ATF already filed an emergency appeal to the SCOTUS, tomorrow briefs are due to Justice Alito. Friday he rules by 5pm EST. Oh that should be interesting! Have a source for further reading? |
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Posted: 8/2/2023 12:59:44 AM EST
[#45]
Excellent!!!
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Posted: 8/2/2023 1:31:33 AM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh that should be interesting! Have a source for further reading? My mistake, got my ATF challenges mixed up. That's their Ghost gun frame and receiver challenge NOT pistol brace rule. |
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Posted: 8/2/2023 3:27:37 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The same reason people with a license to carry were seething when constitutional carry passed. lol Never mind that the biggest supporters of constitutional carry had LTCs in the meantime (and maybe still do for reciprocity and NICS skip.) Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: inb4 those who complied come into this thread and seethe lmao The same reason people with a license to carry were seething when constitutional carry passed. lol Never mind that the biggest supporters of constitutional carry had LTCs in the meantime (and maybe still do for reciprocity and NICS skip.) I keep my LTC and absolutely celebrate everytime a new state gets Constitutional carry 
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Posted: 8/2/2023 3:29:59 AM EST
[#48]
I never thought about building a 80% framed handgun until they said they didn't want me to have one.
Now I'm going to build one. I never thought about building a braced AR until they said they didn't want me to have one. Guess what I'm ready to do?
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Posted: 8/2/2023 3:36:49 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would we seethe? This has been my prediction all along. I'm stoked as it's going even faster than I expected. Same. I am surprised the lawsuits are working this fast. Maybe it is just WA state where things go at a breakneck speed to take away rights, and cold molasses speed when trying to get them back… |
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Posted: 8/2/2023 3:54:54 AM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if I had one of these evil devices as of today am I a Felon or a Free Man again? You were free since the day you were born and even conceived! Do not comply! Never comply! Be ungovernable! |
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