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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:20:43 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can only talk about my internal thought process. I have submitted form 1s and gotten them approved in the past. I lived thru the whole recent form 1 suppressor debacle and I can say the ATF did everything they could to have law abiding citizens arrested. I have non-res CCW in just about every state that allows it. I'm on many many lists. That's not my concern. My concern is that an agency that is known for killing innocent people is asking people to admit to a felony on the hopes to get something for free later AND not get charged with a felony. Then when people point out how the ATF has admitted and stated that they will take enforcement action against anyone who doesn't get their background check done in time when we have no oversight over the ATF intentionally delaying that background check that is the real issue. It's a scam by the ATF to arrest and jail people who disagree with the current political regime in power. It's that simple. So, am I in group 1, 2 or 3? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I have been reading every single thread on braces since the 13th. I have noticed everyone posting in them fall in one of three categories. 1.) People who already have NFA items, already on a "list". do not mind being on a "list". or had plans of SBR-ing items anyways. People that just want to take advantage of the free stamp or get ahead in the wait list. People who are scared and in panic. 2.) People who do not think none of this is right, know the ATF and the powers that be are in the wrong, do not believe they have right to just write laws as they see fit, and will fight this to the end. People who are tired of just giving up 2A rights little by little every decade. People that don't want on their list. Some will not ever comply. 3.) People who seem to have a motive to encourage others to just roll over before it even gets posted in the Federal Register and becomes official. People who do not want others to fight this one bit. Do not even want people to wait and see how this plays out in the courts. People who do not want others to even question any of it and just form 1 their SBRs. People who just want others to give up their rights without wait or question. I can only talk about my internal thought process. I have submitted form 1s and gotten them approved in the past. I lived thru the whole recent form 1 suppressor debacle and I can say the ATF did everything they could to have law abiding citizens arrested. I have non-res CCW in just about every state that allows it. I'm on many many lists. That's not my concern. My concern is that an agency that is known for killing innocent people is asking people to admit to a felony on the hopes to get something for free later AND not get charged with a felony. Then when people point out how the ATF has admitted and stated that they will take enforcement action against anyone who doesn't get their background check done in time when we have no oversight over the ATF intentionally delaying that background check that is the real issue. It's a scam by the ATF to arrest and jail people who disagree with the current political regime in power. It's that simple. So, am I in group 1, 2 or 3? Yep, anyone with a brace that wants to SBR it should take it apart, and submit a standard form 1. Admitting to a felony to save $200 is some smoothbrain shit. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:21:22 PM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have been reading every single thread on braces since the 13th. I have noticed everyone posting in them fall in one of three categories. 1.) People who already have NFA items, already on a "list". do not mind being on a "list". or had plans of SBR-ing items anyways. People that just want to take advantage of the free stamp or get ahead in the wait list. People who are scared and in panic. 2.) People who do not think none of this is right, know the ATF and the powers that be are in the wrong, do not believe they have right to just write laws as they see fit, and will fight this to the end. People who are tired of just giving up 2A rights little by little every decade. People that don't want on their list. Some will not ever comply. 3.) People who seem to have a motive to encourage others to just roll over before it even gets posted in the Federal Register and becomes official. People who do not want others to fight this one bit. Do not even want people to wait and see how this plays out in the courts. People who do not want others to even question any of it and just form 1 their SBRs. People who just want others to give up their rights without wait or question. Well put together and I agree. There's quite a few glowies on here that fit into #3  I'm at #2. If you take your list and apply it to all current AR pistol owners even outside of Arfcom, then you simply add a 4th class. This class would be about 90% of where folks would currently be...... 4.) People who own AR pistols and have absolutely no idea about this new ruling from the FATF. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:22:21 PM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmmm. Let's jump to when the background check countdown starts. Then ATF sits on it past the 88 days and does nothing at all, just ignores your application because they are "too busy". After that countdown, are you now a felon in possession (you admitted you are a felon, remember) and you have already provided proof to the ATF that they can use to arrest you? Yes or No? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: @nexttime did you read and full comprehended the rule layed out? They can delay the submittal for 5 years all they want…88 days doesn’t start until your background gets processed by an examiner…just like when your FFL submits your 4473 info for a background…either check is on the 88 day hook…NFA or 4473…if your background gets closed after 88 days…you have things to clear up either way. Unless you are registering a completed 80% lower and your a felon…this 88 day thing is blown way overboard… Most of us that have say a PCC that we completed a 4473 on already…do not really have to worry about the 88 day mark unless you’ve become a felon or have something else on your background that would prevent you from possessing said firearm. Hmmm. Let's jump to when the background check countdown starts. Then ATF sits on it past the 88 days and does nothing at all, just ignores your application because they are "too busy". After that countdown, are you now a felon in possession (you admitted you are a felon, remember) and you have already provided proof to the ATF that they can use to arrest you? Yes or No? @nexttime unless you get a denial … and your application shows in process/submitted…you are in the clear…88 days DOESNT START until your NCIS check start when the examiner starts your application. NICS check is instant…they can’t just sit on it unless your background comes up with further research. If they can’t clear up your background…it gets denied. Then you need to call them why…it’s the same process that your FFL does. You will either get an approval, denial or delayed… |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:23:04 PM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is no way different than 88 days on your 4473. Normally when you 4473 a firearm, you are usually not buying a NFA regulated item that is already made, in someone's possession, and not registered (contraband) though right? 4473 is usually for an item that is legal right? I think that is what the difference is many are getting at. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:23:06 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see. You don’t like being called out and proven wrong. I don’t like this anymore than most but at least I don’t gaslight the situation… Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Form 4999 had too many "work arounds" still. They got caught with the notation portion at the beginning which really made the rest of the form (i.e. complacence) pointless. One could have had a 10.5" with a blade brace on a std. pistol tube and strap using a red-dot sight no irons at min. Light weight BCG and handguard with a tuned gas system and your gtg. ( a 12.5" barrel could have used with a Strike Ind. short tube system weight being a consideration ) They want to kill it all and if they can put a few thousand in jail while doing it to send a message they will do it. This has all been a stage play leading up to registration confiscation or incarceration. I would not do the free tax stamp ..............................no way! 88 day auto denial while still having what they consider to be a non-reg NFA item is bad mojo. Remember by submitting the form you are attesting to what they accuse you of. Signed admission of guilt with provided photo evidence. If not processed within 88 days you are screwed. If you disassemble the weapon after submitting the form or after the 88 day auto denial you are possibly destroying evidence in what they would call an investigative case study. Remember you are already a felon in their eyes. It could land you in front of judge and at minimum you will lose the weapon. I'm waiting to see the first individuals to get pinched before the 120 day grace period is up on some other bastardized ATF interpretation of there own rule. Until it's published the 88 day auto denial wont start. (Will someone, a legal expert please correct me if I'm wrong on any of the above.) HIVE MIND at work. Safe bet based on new info and ambiguous interpretations: 1. Disassemble upper from lower. 2. remove buffer tube from lower. 3. de-barrel upper. Wait it out. The best fight is the one going on via legal routes. If SHTF all you need is 30 min to reconfigure and do a 25m-50m zero PDQ. Then again a 16" may be the better SHTF rig anyway. No time for heroes, just be smart people. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/534172309305425923/1066232285814341692/image.png OR https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/534172309305425923/958558074627555378/unknown.png FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME TO THE PEOPLE THAT DO NOT DO NFA....88 DAYS STARTS AFTER THEY START YOUR BACKGROUND NOT ON SUBMISSION OF YOUR PAPERWORK...I swear...many of you need to learn to STFU about NFA rules and regs...IT IS THE SAME 88 DAY RULE IF YOUR 4473 GETS DELAYED AND REMAINS OPEN... Yeah, but on a normal scenario, you're just out your time....here you've attested to possessing an unregistered SBR, so prepare for a visit. It’s obvious many of you can’t understand how things are written or work…but it’s good to spread hearsay… I don’t trust people that murder innocent women, and children. Gotcha. So that’s why many don’t have proper literacy or the ability to discern gaslighting topics they can’t comprehend… Listen. I don’t like this either but at least I don’t spread fakery. Even that GOA lawyer had to correct himself after the video… so please learn the rules and regs or STFU… Sorry, don’t trust you either. I’ll make up my own mind based on what my eyes have seen, and my ears have heard. Good. Read the ruling over and over again before you start unsubstantiated “facts” because you haven’t said any…I hope between seeing what your eyes see and hearing what your ears hear…you use your brain too. I have no desire to read unconstitutional “rules”, I’m heterosexual. I see. You don’t like being called out and proven wrong. I don’t like this anymore than most but at least I don’t gaslight the situation… Proven wrong? It will take a couple years to prove me wrong, and I hope I am. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:25:31 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So are you saying the pistol configs you have are illegal? Lol. The pistol you posses now and after whatever 120 days remains a pistol…if you attach a brace…that’s on you and all of us. It’s not hard to understand. If you get denied a NFA check for a background…you need to clear up whatever is on there or you are a felon. YOU CAN STILL REAPPLY after a denial and be in compliance with a brace pistol. But if your background gets flagged for a felony…it should trigger an enforcement action as you can’t posses firearms as felon. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 88 days its what stoped me doing mine. I will be honest it scares the heck out of me. I am to old and have to much invested to go to prison for a s&W mp15-p the only ar pistol I own which I got on a whim at the local gun shop to help him out cause he could not sell it and I was already picking up something else. heck throw it on, it will be fun for the kids/grandkids. all because I am past 88 days and its sit on someones desk and its taking to long to process cause nics ends up being down. so here I am stuck with it now. with no course of action since its even called out by name and picture in the FAQ as a SBR. do I sell it off to some body. remove the brace. dont think that will work since it doesnt need the buffer tube to work. so what do people like me and others do..... all the people in states that dont allow sbr. heck if this would have been years ago I would not even be able to file for the free sbr since mo required some form of FFL to have class 3 stuff. this is what I want answered is what do we do. with out the hoopla I just want answers and help. 1. I mean I cant switch the upper. S&W will not sell just a 16 inch upper, or barrel 2. take off the brace....dont know if that will work since the 22 doesnt need the buffer tube to function. it has a fake one. but you cannot remove the tube cause its fake and molded to the lower. 3. file and pray I dont mess up the form, and I get approved in 88 days. 4. sell it to someone and put them in the bind...I cant do this. 5. perm attach a device to bring it up to 16.. which there is only a couple on the market thats over 9 inches. which is really going look stupid. 6.destroy the whole gun..550 bucks gone I am not one of the afrcom rich people. 550 is good money to me. so what do we do... @rmdye the 88 days scare is just that. It is no way different than 88 days on your 4473. NFA doesn’t start your background on submission…your background starts just like on a 4473…when the examiner has your file and processes for approval. Just like when your FFL submits your background when buying a gun. Again. I don’t like this either but understand the framework we operate in. How many illegal guns have you tried to buy on a 4473? So are you saying the pistol configs you have are illegal? Lol. The pistol you posses now and after whatever 120 days remains a pistol…if you attach a brace…that’s on you and all of us. It’s not hard to understand. If you get denied a NFA check for a background…you need to clear up whatever is on there or you are a felon. YOU CAN STILL REAPPLY after a denial and be in compliance with a brace pistol. But if your background gets flagged for a felony…it should trigger an enforcement action as you can’t posses firearms as felon. I have stamped SBR’s, not pistols. The pistols in question will be considered illegal unregistered SBR’s once their made up “rule” is published. This isn’t hard. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:27:58 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Normally when you 4473 a firearm, you are usually not buying a NFA regulated item that is already made, in someone's possession, and not registered (contraband) though right? 4473 is usually for an item that is legal right? I think that is what the difference is many are getting at. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It is no way different than 88 days on your 4473. Normally when you 4473 a firearm, you are usually not buying a NFA regulated item that is already made, in someone's possession, and not registered (contraband) though right? 4473 is usually for an item that is legal right? I think that is what the difference is many are getting at. @Shane733 NFA and 4473 is practically the same thing minus the extra hoops and after approval you have certain things you have to follow (like interstate travel). You can’t make an NFA item without it being legal first ;) Unless you are a felon and trying to register your 80% lower… Both NFA NICS and a 4473 NICS both have a 88 day count down ONCE the info is SUBMITTED to run a background. From there. You will get an approval/denied/delayed… |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:29:40 PM EST
[#8]
Totally Agree 100 %
i took mine apart the day all this bullshit came out. and i didnt get a braced gun till just a few months ago. now brace is gone. im going to Form 1 the receiver and pay $200. if it takes two years ill wait till i get approved. and hopefully Desantis will be getting Sworn in this time two years from now. sorry Joe and AFT .. not today buddy Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, anyone with a brace that wants to SBR it should take it apart, and submit a standard form 1. Admitting to a felony to save $200 is some smoothbrain shit. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:30:27 PM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I can only talk about my internal thought process. I have submitted form 1s and gotten them approved in the past. I lived thru the whole recent form 1 suppressor debacle and I can say the ATF did everything they could to have law abiding citizens arrested. I have non-res CCW in just about every state that allows it. I'm on many many lists. That's not my concern. My concern is that an agency that is known for killing innocent people is asking people to admit to a felony on the hopes to get something for free later AND not get charged with a felony. Then when people point out how the ATF has admitted and stated that they will take enforcement action against anyone who doesn't get their background check done in time when we have no oversight over the ATF intentionally delaying that background check that is the real issue. It's a scam by the ATF to arrest and jail people who disagree with the current political regime in power. It's that simple. So, am I in group 1, 2 or 3? Sounds like 2. You may be on a list but not cause you wanted to be. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:31:40 PM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I see. You don’t like being called out and proven wrong. I don’t like this anymore than most but at least I don’t gaslight the situation… Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Form 4999 had too many "work arounds" still. They got caught with the notation portion at the beginning which really made the rest of the form (i.e. complacence) pointless. One could have had a 10.5" with a blade brace on a std. pistol tube and strap using a red-dot sight no irons at min. Light weight BCG and handguard with a tuned gas system and your gtg. ( a 12.5" barrel could have used with a Strike Ind. short tube system weight being a consideration ) They want to kill it all and if they can put a few thousand in jail while doing it to send a message they will do it. This has all been a stage play leading up to registration confiscation or incarceration. I would not do the free tax stamp ..............................no way! 88 day auto denial while still having what they consider to be a non-reg NFA item is bad mojo. Remember by submitting the form you are attesting to what they accuse you of. Signed admission of guilt with provided photo evidence. If not processed within 88 days you are screwed. If you disassemble the weapon after submitting the form or after the 88 day auto denial you are possibly destroying evidence in what they would call an investigative case study. Remember you are already a felon in their eyes. It could land you in front of judge and at minimum you will lose the weapon. I'm waiting to see the first individuals to get pinched before the 120 day grace period is up on some other bastardized ATF interpretation of there own rule. Until it's published the 88 day auto denial wont start. (Will someone, a legal expert please correct me if I'm wrong on any of the above.) HIVE MIND at work. Safe bet based on new info and ambiguous interpretations: 1. Disassemble upper from lower. 2. remove buffer tube from lower. 3. de-barrel upper. Wait it out. The best fight is the one going on via legal routes. If SHTF all you need is 30 min to reconfigure and do a 25m-50m zero PDQ. Then again a 16" may be the better SHTF rig anyway. No time for heroes, just be smart people. https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/534172309305425923/1066232285814341692/image.png OR https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/534172309305425923/958558074627555378/unknown.png FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME TO THE PEOPLE THAT DO NOT DO NFA....88 DAYS STARTS AFTER THEY START YOUR BACKGROUND NOT ON SUBMISSION OF YOUR PAPERWORK...I swear...many of you need to learn to STFU about NFA rules and regs...IT IS THE SAME 88 DAY RULE IF YOUR 4473 GETS DELAYED AND REMAINS OPEN... Yeah, but on a normal scenario, you're just out your time....here you've attested to possessing an unregistered SBR, so prepare for a visit. It’s obvious many of you can’t understand how things are written or work…but it’s good to spread hearsay… I don’t trust people that murder innocent women, and children. Gotcha. So that’s why many don’t have proper literacy or the ability to discern gaslighting topics they can’t comprehend… Listen. I don’t like this either but at least I don’t spread fakery. Even that GOA lawyer had to correct himself after the video… so please learn the rules and regs or STFU… Sorry, don’t trust you either. I’ll make up my own mind based on what my eyes have seen, and my ears have heard. Good. Read the ruling over and over again before you start unsubstantiated “facts” because you haven’t said any…I hope between seeing what your eyes see and hearing what your ears hear…you use your brain too. I have no desire to read unconstitutional “rules”, I’m heterosexual. I see. You don’t like being called out and proven wrong. I don’t like this anymore than most but at least I don’t gaslight the situation… He's not gaslighting anything. We are dealing with a rogue criminal gang with zero empathy for the citizens. Now they've openly stated they WILL take action should built in system error occur. Given past history why wouldn't they? |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:31:45 PM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have stamped SBR’s, not pistols. The pistols in question will be considered illegal unregistered SBR’s once their made up “rule” is published. This isn’t hard. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 88 days its what stoped me doing mine. I will be honest it scares the heck out of me. I am to old and have to much invested to go to prison for a s&W mp15-p the only ar pistol I own which I got on a whim at the local gun shop to help him out cause he could not sell it and I was already picking up something else. heck throw it on, it will be fun for the kids/grandkids. all because I am past 88 days and its sit on someones desk and its taking to long to process cause nics ends up being down. so here I am stuck with it now. with no course of action since its even called out by name and picture in the FAQ as a SBR. do I sell it off to some body. remove the brace. dont think that will work since it doesnt need the buffer tube to work. so what do people like me and others do..... all the people in states that dont allow sbr. heck if this would have been years ago I would not even be able to file for the free sbr since mo required some form of FFL to have class 3 stuff. this is what I want answered is what do we do. with out the hoopla I just want answers and help. 1. I mean I cant switch the upper. S&W will not sell just a 16 inch upper, or barrel 2. take off the brace....dont know if that will work since the 22 doesnt need the buffer tube to function. it has a fake one. but you cannot remove the tube cause its fake and molded to the lower. 3. file and pray I dont mess up the form, and I get approved in 88 days. 4. sell it to someone and put them in the bind...I cant do this. 5. perm attach a device to bring it up to 16.. which there is only a couple on the market thats over 9 inches. which is really going look stupid. 6.destroy the whole gun..550 bucks gone I am not one of the afrcom rich people. 550 is good money to me. so what do we do... @rmdye the 88 days scare is just that. It is no way different than 88 days on your 4473. NFA doesn’t start your background on submission…your background starts just like on a 4473…when the examiner has your file and processes for approval. Just like when your FFL submits your background when buying a gun. Again. I don’t like this either but understand the framework we operate in. How many illegal guns have you tried to buy on a 4473? So are you saying the pistol configs you have are illegal? Lol. The pistol you posses now and after whatever 120 days remains a pistol…if you attach a brace…that’s on you and all of us. It’s not hard to understand. If you get denied a NFA check for a background…you need to clear up whatever is on there or you are a felon. YOU CAN STILL REAPPLY after a denial and be in compliance with a brace pistol. But if your background gets flagged for a felony…it should trigger an enforcement action as you can’t posses firearms as felon. I have stamped SBR’s, not pistols. The pistols in question will be considered illegal unregistered SBR’s once their made up “rule” is published. This isn’t hard. ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE BRACE ATTACHED TO THEM AFTER THE 120 days…IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE BRACE ON IT…IT IS STILL A FREAKIN’ PISTOL… If one chooses to keep the brace on after the 120 days and they didn’t start a form 1 process then yes. They will be considered having an unregistered SBR with the brace on it. IF YOU DO NOT have said brace attached to firearm. It remains a pistol. IF YOU REGISTERED the pistol either within the rule with tax exemption or regular…you have a registered SBR… Not sure what is so hard to understand… |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:33:56 PM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @nexttime unless you get a denial … and your application shows in process/submitted…you are in the clear…88 days DOESNT START until your NCIS check start when the examiner starts your application. NICS check is instant…they can’t just sit on it unless your background comes up with further research. If they can’t clear up your background…it gets denied. Then you need to call them why…it’s the same process that your FFL does. You will either get an approval, denial or delayed… Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: @nexttime did you read and full comprehended the rule layed out? They can delay the submittal for 5 years all they want…88 days doesn’t start until your background gets processed by an examiner…just like when your FFL submits your 4473 info for a background…either check is on the 88 day hook…NFA or 4473…if your background gets closed after 88 days…you have things to clear up either way. Unless you are registering a completed 80% lower and your a felon…this 88 day thing is blown way overboard… Most of us that have say a PCC that we completed a 4473 on already…do not really have to worry about the 88 day mark unless you’ve become a felon or have something else on your background that would prevent you from possessing said firearm. Hmmm. Let's jump to when the background check countdown starts. Then ATF sits on it past the 88 days and does nothing at all, just ignores your application because they are "too busy". After that countdown, are you now a felon in possession (you admitted you are a felon, remember) and you have already provided proof to the ATF that they can use to arrest you? Yes or No? @nexttime unless you get a denial … and your application shows in process/submitted…you are in the clear…88 days DOESNT START until your NCIS check start when the examiner starts your application. NICS check is instant…they can’t just sit on it unless your background comes up with further research. If they can’t clear up your background…it gets denied. Then you need to call them why…it’s the same process that your FFL does. You will either get an approval, denial or delayed… They can and will sit on it and they will blame the "huge backlog". What recourse do you have if they do sit it past the 88 days? Write a letter? You've already admitted you are felon in possession of an SBR. Nolo asked them this question and the reply from the ATF is that they would start their standard enforcement procedure. How much clearer do you need to hear it? This is a trap. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:34:04 PM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He's not gaslighting anything. We are dealing with a rogue criminal gang with zero empathy for the citizens. Now they've openly stated they WILL take action should built in system error occur. Given past history why wouldn't they? @mooreshawnm…what system error? The 88 days? That starts when your background NICS gets checked…just like a 4473…nothing new. Just more gaslighting. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:35:13 PM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have stamped SBR’s, not pistols. The pistols in question will be considered illegal unregistered SBR’s once their made up “rule” is published. This isn’t hard. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 88 days its what stoped me doing mine. I will be honest it scares the heck out of me. I am to old and have to much invested to go to prison for a s&W mp15-p the only ar pistol I own which I got on a whim at the local gun shop to help him out cause he could not sell it and I was already picking up something else. heck throw it on, it will be fun for the kids/grandkids. all because I am past 88 days and its sit on someones desk and its taking to long to process cause nics ends up being down. so here I am stuck with it now. with no course of action since its even called out by name and picture in the FAQ as a SBR. do I sell it off to some body. remove the brace. dont think that will work since it doesnt need the buffer tube to work. so what do people like me and others do..... all the people in states that dont allow sbr. heck if this would have been years ago I would not even be able to file for the free sbr since mo required some form of FFL to have class 3 stuff. this is what I want answered is what do we do. with out the hoopla I just want answers and help. 1. I mean I cant switch the upper. S&W will not sell just a 16 inch upper, or barrel 2. take off the brace....dont know if that will work since the 22 doesnt need the buffer tube to function. it has a fake one. but you cannot remove the tube cause its fake and molded to the lower. 3. file and pray I dont mess up the form, and I get approved in 88 days. 4. sell it to someone and put them in the bind...I cant do this. 5. perm attach a device to bring it up to 16.. which there is only a couple on the market thats over 9 inches. which is really going look stupid. 6.destroy the whole gun..550 bucks gone I am not one of the afrcom rich people. 550 is good money to me. so what do we do... @rmdye the 88 days scare is just that. It is no way different than 88 days on your 4473. NFA doesn’t start your background on submission…your background starts just like on a 4473…when the examiner has your file and processes for approval. Just like when your FFL submits your background when buying a gun. Again. I don’t like this either but understand the framework we operate in. How many illegal guns have you tried to buy on a 4473? So are you saying the pistol configs you have are illegal? Lol. The pistol you posses now and after whatever 120 days remains a pistol…if you attach a brace…that’s on you and all of us. It’s not hard to understand. If you get denied a NFA check for a background…you need to clear up whatever is on there or you are a felon. YOU CAN STILL REAPPLY after a denial and be in compliance with a brace pistol. But if your background gets flagged for a felony…it should trigger an enforcement action as you can’t posses firearms as felon. I have stamped SBR’s, not pistols. The pistols in question will be considered illegal unregistered SBR’s once their made up “rule” is published. This isn’t hard. Yep. And they've openly stated they'd go after anyone making or transferring one IMMEDIATELY after publishing if the law would allow them, but they have to wait 60 days to do so. Therefore, ATF may enforce the NFA against any person or entity that—any time after the publication date of this rule—newly makes or transfers a weapon with an attached “stabilizing brace” that constitutes a short-barreled rifle under the NFA. For purposes of the Congressional Review Act, however, the Department will wait to actually initiate such enforcement actions for at least 60 days from publication of the rule in the Federal Register. See 5 U.S.C. 801(a)(3). |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:36:23 PM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE BRACE ATTACHED TO THEM AFTER THE 120 days…IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE BRACE ON IT…IT IS STILL A FREAKIN’ PISTOL… If one chooses to keep the brace on after the 120 days and they didn’t start a form 1 process then yes. They will be considered having an unregistered SBR with the brace on it. IF YOU DO NOT have said brace attached to firearm. It remains a pistol. IF YOU REGISTERED the pistol either within the rule with tax exemption or regular…you have a registered SBR… Not sure what is so hard to understand… Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 88 days its what stoped me doing mine. I will be honest it scares the heck out of me. I am to old and have to much invested to go to prison for a s&W mp15-p the only ar pistol I own which I got on a whim at the local gun shop to help him out cause he could not sell it and I was already picking up something else. heck throw it on, it will be fun for the kids/grandkids. all because I am past 88 days and its sit on someones desk and its taking to long to process cause nics ends up being down. so here I am stuck with it now. with no course of action since its even called out by name and picture in the FAQ as a SBR. do I sell it off to some body. remove the brace. dont think that will work since it doesnt need the buffer tube to work. so what do people like me and others do..... all the people in states that dont allow sbr. heck if this would have been years ago I would not even be able to file for the free sbr since mo required some form of FFL to have class 3 stuff. this is what I want answered is what do we do. with out the hoopla I just want answers and help. 1. I mean I cant switch the upper. S&W will not sell just a 16 inch upper, or barrel 2. take off the brace....dont know if that will work since the 22 doesnt need the buffer tube to function. it has a fake one. but you cannot remove the tube cause its fake and molded to the lower. 3. file and pray I dont mess up the form, and I get approved in 88 days. 4. sell it to someone and put them in the bind...I cant do this. 5. perm attach a device to bring it up to 16.. which there is only a couple on the market thats over 9 inches. which is really going look stupid. 6.destroy the whole gun..550 bucks gone I am not one of the afrcom rich people. 550 is good money to me. so what do we do... @rmdye the 88 days scare is just that. It is no way different than 88 days on your 4473. NFA doesn’t start your background on submission…your background starts just like on a 4473…when the examiner has your file and processes for approval. Just like when your FFL submits your background when buying a gun. Again. I don’t like this either but understand the framework we operate in. How many illegal guns have you tried to buy on a 4473? So are you saying the pistol configs you have are illegal? Lol. The pistol you posses now and after whatever 120 days remains a pistol…if you attach a brace…that’s on you and all of us. It’s not hard to understand. If you get denied a NFA check for a background…you need to clear up whatever is on there or you are a felon. YOU CAN STILL REAPPLY after a denial and be in compliance with a brace pistol. But if your background gets flagged for a felony…it should trigger an enforcement action as you can’t posses firearms as felon. I have stamped SBR’s, not pistols. The pistols in question will be considered illegal unregistered SBR’s once their made up “rule” is published. This isn’t hard. ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE BRACE ATTACHED TO THEM AFTER THE 120 days…IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE BRACE ON IT…IT IS STILL A FREAKIN’ PISTOL… If one chooses to keep the brace on after the 120 days and they didn’t start a form 1 process then yes. They will be considered having an unregistered SBR with the brace on it. IF YOU DO NOT have said brace attached to firearm. It remains a pistol. IF YOU REGISTERED the pistol either within the rule with tax exemption or regular…you have a registered SBR… Not sure what is so hard to understand… As of the date it’s filed with the registry, not 120 days. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:36:50 PM EST
[#16]
What a complete and utter, incompetent, cluster fuck! What kind of half assed run organization would make tens of millions of citizens jump through retroactive hoops to clean up their mess?
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:38:26 PM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They can and will sit on it and they will blame the "huge backlog". What recourse do you have if they do sit it past the 88 days? Write a letter? You've already admitted you are felon in possession of an SBR. Nolo asked them this question and the reply from the ATF is that they would start their standard enforcement procedure. How much clearer do you need to hear it? This is a trap. @nexttime … they don’t simply sit on a NICS check … when it gets entered you get a result: approved/denied/delayed… Examiner gets your file…say after 3 months of submittal. The examiner checks your submitted info…ok. Checks out. Cool. Next comes background…into the NICS we go…88 days starts. Ok cool. You pass. Green light. Stamp approved. You get email. NCIS check result is pretty darn instant with again…a result… |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:39:23 PM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ADA interaction is going to be a real interesting angle to this. Not everyone who is disabled has outwardly visible indications. This. First off -- let me clarify my personal stance so there is no misunderstanding of where I stand: I will NOT participate in this BATF "brace is really an SBR" illegal overreach, and validate their ruling just so I can save a measly $200 via so-called "amnesty". And I think anyone who does is just emboldening the BATF to take even more. Don't be eager to admit in writing to a crime you didn't commit just to save a few bucks. Ok, with that out of the way, on to the question regarding ADA and braces: A lot of people, including many on this very board I'll wager, suffer from diabetes and other conditions that cause the nerves to degenerate, and subsequently have shaking/tremors in their hands that hinder their ability to hold a pistol steady. These people very likely have not considered themselves officially "disabled". But are they "disabled" in a way relevant to this topic? Is there some sort of "official" proclamation they need to acquire before they can utilized devices to assist the disabled? Does one have to have a "blue wheelchair" disability license plate to be "disabled"? |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:40:13 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: As of the date it’s filed with the registry, not 120 days. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 88 days its what stoped me doing mine. I will be honest it scares the heck out of me. I am to old and have to much invested to go to prison for a s&W mp15-p the only ar pistol I own which I got on a whim at the local gun shop to help him out cause he could not sell it and I was already picking up something else. heck throw it on, it will be fun for the kids/grandkids. all because I am past 88 days and its sit on someones desk and its taking to long to process cause nics ends up being down. so here I am stuck with it now. with no course of action since its even called out by name and picture in the FAQ as a SBR. do I sell it off to some body. remove the brace. dont think that will work since it doesnt need the buffer tube to work. so what do people like me and others do..... all the people in states that dont allow sbr. heck if this would have been years ago I would not even be able to file for the free sbr since mo required some form of FFL to have class 3 stuff. this is what I want answered is what do we do. with out the hoopla I just want answers and help. 1. I mean I cant switch the upper. S&W will not sell just a 16 inch upper, or barrel 2. take off the brace....dont know if that will work since the 22 doesnt need the buffer tube to function. it has a fake one. but you cannot remove the tube cause its fake and molded to the lower. 3. file and pray I dont mess up the form, and I get approved in 88 days. 4. sell it to someone and put them in the bind...I cant do this. 5. perm attach a device to bring it up to 16.. which there is only a couple on the market thats over 9 inches. which is really going look stupid. 6.destroy the whole gun..550 bucks gone I am not one of the afrcom rich people. 550 is good money to me. so what do we do... @rmdye the 88 days scare is just that. It is no way different than 88 days on your 4473. NFA doesn’t start your background on submission…your background starts just like on a 4473…when the examiner has your file and processes for approval. Just like when your FFL submits your background when buying a gun. Again. I don’t like this either but understand the framework we operate in. How many illegal guns have you tried to buy on a 4473? So are you saying the pistol configs you have are illegal? Lol. The pistol you posses now and after whatever 120 days remains a pistol…if you attach a brace…that’s on you and all of us. It’s not hard to understand. If you get denied a NFA check for a background…you need to clear up whatever is on there or you are a felon. YOU CAN STILL REAPPLY after a denial and be in compliance with a brace pistol. But if your background gets flagged for a felony…it should trigger an enforcement action as you can’t posses firearms as felon. I have stamped SBR’s, not pistols. The pistols in question will be considered illegal unregistered SBR’s once their made up “rule” is published. This isn’t hard. ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE BRACE ATTACHED TO THEM AFTER THE 120 days…IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE BRACE ON IT…IT IS STILL A FREAKIN’ PISTOL… If one chooses to keep the brace on after the 120 days and they didn’t start a form 1 process then yes. They will be considered having an unregistered SBR with the brace on it. IF YOU DO NOT have said brace attached to firearm. It remains a pistol. IF YOU REGISTERED the pistol either within the rule with tax exemption or regular…you have a registered SBR… Not sure what is so hard to understand… As of the date it’s filed with the registry, not 120 days. Correct. The 120 day countdown starts after in the Federal Register… |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:41:56 PM EST
[#20]
Why are those that are fuck this brace rule, fuck that bump stock rule, fuck the SBR pistol rule, fuck the FRT rule, not all fuck that 3rd hole rule.
Penalties are the same but there seems to be a definite increased level of fear based compliance to the 3rd hole rule. Videos full of “fuck all that”, but not of fuck that 3rd hole. Seems like the 3rd hole instills fear of the ATF coming a knocking. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:43:01 PM EST
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct. The 120 day countdown starts after in the Federal Register… Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 88 days its what stoped me doing mine. I will be honest it scares the heck out of me. I am to old and have to much invested to go to prison for a s&W mp15-p the only ar pistol I own which I got on a whim at the local gun shop to help him out cause he could not sell it and I was already picking up something else. heck throw it on, it will be fun for the kids/grandkids. all because I am past 88 days and its sit on someones desk and its taking to long to process cause nics ends up being down. so here I am stuck with it now. with no course of action since its even called out by name and picture in the FAQ as a SBR. do I sell it off to some body. remove the brace. dont think that will work since it doesnt need the buffer tube to work. so what do people like me and others do..... all the people in states that dont allow sbr. heck if this would have been years ago I would not even be able to file for the free sbr since mo required some form of FFL to have class 3 stuff. this is what I want answered is what do we do. with out the hoopla I just want answers and help. 1. I mean I cant switch the upper. S&W will not sell just a 16 inch upper, or barrel 2. take off the brace....dont know if that will work since the 22 doesnt need the buffer tube to function. it has a fake one. but you cannot remove the tube cause its fake and molded to the lower. 3. file and pray I dont mess up the form, and I get approved in 88 days. 4. sell it to someone and put them in the bind...I cant do this. 5. perm attach a device to bring it up to 16.. which there is only a couple on the market thats over 9 inches. which is really going look stupid. 6.destroy the whole gun..550 bucks gone I am not one of the afrcom rich people. 550 is good money to me. so what do we do... @rmdye the 88 days scare is just that. It is no way different than 88 days on your 4473. NFA doesn’t start your background on submission…your background starts just like on a 4473…when the examiner has your file and processes for approval. Just like when your FFL submits your background when buying a gun. Again. I don’t like this either but understand the framework we operate in. How many illegal guns have you tried to buy on a 4473? So are you saying the pistol configs you have are illegal? Lol. The pistol you posses now and after whatever 120 days remains a pistol…if you attach a brace…that’s on you and all of us. It’s not hard to understand. If you get denied a NFA check for a background…you need to clear up whatever is on there or you are a felon. YOU CAN STILL REAPPLY after a denial and be in compliance with a brace pistol. But if your background gets flagged for a felony…it should trigger an enforcement action as you can’t posses firearms as felon. I have stamped SBR’s, not pistols. The pistols in question will be considered illegal unregistered SBR’s once their made up “rule” is published. This isn’t hard. ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE BRACE ATTACHED TO THEM AFTER THE 120 days…IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE BRACE ON IT…IT IS STILL A FREAKIN’ PISTOL… If one chooses to keep the brace on after the 120 days and they didn’t start a form 1 process then yes. They will be considered having an unregistered SBR with the brace on it. IF YOU DO NOT have said brace attached to firearm. It remains a pistol. IF YOU REGISTERED the pistol either within the rule with tax exemption or regular…you have a registered SBR… Not sure what is so hard to understand… As of the date it’s filed with the registry, not 120 days. Correct. The 120 day countdown starts after in the Federal Register… Correct, and braced pistols are illegal on day 1. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:43:07 PM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Shane733 NFA and 4473 is practically the same thing minus the extra hoops and after approval you have certain things you have to follow (like interstate travel). You can’t make an NFA item without it being legal first ;) Unless you are a felon and trying to register your 80% lower… Both NFA NICS and a 4473 NICS both have a 88 day count down ONCE the info is SUBMITTED to run a background. From there. You will get an approval/denied/delayed… A lot of these people in the thread are purposely trying to make it seem worst than it really is and are making the NFA application seem as if it's considerably different than doing a 4473. It's literally the same exact people searching the same databases for the same criteria under both "checks", but I think either these people are too dense to get it or they are deliberately trying to dissuade people from making an informed decision based on facts. A lot of these guys live in shitholes like Illinois which already has some of the most draconian gun legislation ever, and NFA was never an option for them, so they basically want everybody to be potential felons in the same boat if they can't have the cuckbrace. I've made the same point and I'll make it again that "lying" on a 4473 is a felony, and if you are prohibited possessor without knowing that's on you, and you'd be surprised how many people get transferred firearms during a delay and then find out they are prohibited a few days after they've already taken the gun home. The risk is the same. Anybody applying for a tax stamp is fine so long as your record is clear. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:43:11 PM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE BRACE ATTACHED TO THEM AFTER THE 120 days…IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE BRACE ON IT…IT IS STILL A FREAKIN’ PISTOL… If one chooses to keep the brace on after the 120 days and they didn’t start a form 1 process then yes. They will be considered having an unregistered SBR with the brace on it. IF YOU DO NOT have said brace attached to firearm. It remains a pistol. IF YOU REGISTERED the pistol either within the rule with tax exemption or regular…you have a registered SBR… Not sure what is so hard to understand… Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 88 days its what stoped me doing mine. I will be honest it scares the heck out of me. I am to old and have to much invested to go to prison for a s&W mp15-p the only ar pistol I own which I got on a whim at the local gun shop to help him out cause he could not sell it and I was already picking up something else. heck throw it on, it will be fun for the kids/grandkids. all because I am past 88 days and its sit on someones desk and its taking to long to process cause nics ends up being down. so here I am stuck with it now. with no course of action since its even called out by name and picture in the FAQ as a SBR. do I sell it off to some body. remove the brace. dont think that will work since it doesnt need the buffer tube to work. so what do people like me and others do..... all the people in states that dont allow sbr. heck if this would have been years ago I would not even be able to file for the free sbr since mo required some form of FFL to have class 3 stuff. this is what I want answered is what do we do. with out the hoopla I just want answers and help. 1. I mean I cant switch the upper. S&W will not sell just a 16 inch upper, or barrel 2. take off the brace....dont know if that will work since the 22 doesnt need the buffer tube to function. it has a fake one. but you cannot remove the tube cause its fake and molded to the lower. 3. file and pray I dont mess up the form, and I get approved in 88 days. 4. sell it to someone and put them in the bind...I cant do this. 5. perm attach a device to bring it up to 16.. which there is only a couple on the market thats over 9 inches. which is really going look stupid. 6.destroy the whole gun..550 bucks gone I am not one of the afrcom rich people. 550 is good money to me. so what do we do... @rmdye the 88 days scare is just that. It is no way different than 88 days on your 4473. NFA doesn’t start your background on submission…your background starts just like on a 4473…when the examiner has your file and processes for approval. Just like when your FFL submits your background when buying a gun. Again. I don’t like this either but understand the framework we operate in. How many illegal guns have you tried to buy on a 4473? So are you saying the pistol configs you have are illegal? Lol. The pistol you posses now and after whatever 120 days remains a pistol…if you attach a brace…that’s on you and all of us. It’s not hard to understand. If you get denied a NFA check for a background…you need to clear up whatever is on there or you are a felon. YOU CAN STILL REAPPLY after a denial and be in compliance with a brace pistol. But if your background gets flagged for a felony…it should trigger an enforcement action as you can’t posses firearms as felon. I have stamped SBR’s, not pistols. The pistols in question will be considered illegal unregistered SBR’s once their made up “rule” is published. This isn’t hard. ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE BRACE ATTACHED TO THEM AFTER THE 120 days…IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE BRACE ON IT…IT IS STILL A FREAKIN’ PISTOL… If one chooses to keep the brace on after the 120 days and they didn’t start a form 1 process then yes. They will be considered having an unregistered SBR with the brace on it. IF YOU DO NOT have said brace attached to firearm. It remains a pistol. IF YOU REGISTERED the pistol either within the rule with tax exemption or regular…you have a registered SBR… Not sure what is so hard to understand… But you can only apply for the free stamp if your pistol has a brace fitted ? If it was fitted then you are denied, removing it does not "cure" the fact you had a SBR when you applied. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:44:48 PM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are those that are fuck this brace rule, fuck that bump stock rule, fuck the SBR pistol rule, fuck the FRT rule, not all fuck that 3rd hole rule. Penalties are the same but there seems to be a definite increased level of fear based compliance to the 3rd hole rule. Videos full of “fuck all that”, but not of fuck that 3rd hole. Seems like the 3rd hole instills fear of the ATF coming a knocking. Owning a braced pistol is a pretty defensible position to be in. The others, not so much. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:45:13 PM EST
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct. The 120 day countdown starts after in the Federal Register… Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 88 days its what stoped me doing mine. I will be honest it scares the heck out of me. I am to old and have to much invested to go to prison for a s&W mp15-p the only ar pistol I own which I got on a whim at the local gun shop to help him out cause he could not sell it and I was already picking up something else. heck throw it on, it will be fun for the kids/grandkids. all because I am past 88 days and its sit on someones desk and its taking to long to process cause nics ends up being down. so here I am stuck with it now. with no course of action since its even called out by name and picture in the FAQ as a SBR. do I sell it off to some body. remove the brace. dont think that will work since it doesnt need the buffer tube to work. so what do people like me and others do..... all the people in states that dont allow sbr. heck if this would have been years ago I would not even be able to file for the free sbr since mo required some form of FFL to have class 3 stuff. this is what I want answered is what do we do. with out the hoopla I just want answers and help. 1. I mean I cant switch the upper. S&W will not sell just a 16 inch upper, or barrel 2. take off the brace....dont know if that will work since the 22 doesnt need the buffer tube to function. it has a fake one. but you cannot remove the tube cause its fake and molded to the lower. 3. file and pray I dont mess up the form, and I get approved in 88 days. 4. sell it to someone and put them in the bind...I cant do this. 5. perm attach a device to bring it up to 16.. which there is only a couple on the market thats over 9 inches. which is really going look stupid. 6.destroy the whole gun..550 bucks gone I am not one of the afrcom rich people. 550 is good money to me. so what do we do... @rmdye the 88 days scare is just that. It is no way different than 88 days on your 4473. NFA doesn’t start your background on submission…your background starts just like on a 4473…when the examiner has your file and processes for approval. Just like when your FFL submits your background when buying a gun. Again. I don’t like this either but understand the framework we operate in. How many illegal guns have you tried to buy on a 4473? So are you saying the pistol configs you have are illegal? Lol. The pistol you posses now and after whatever 120 days remains a pistol…if you attach a brace…that’s on you and all of us. It’s not hard to understand. If you get denied a NFA check for a background…you need to clear up whatever is on there or you are a felon. YOU CAN STILL REAPPLY after a denial and be in compliance with a brace pistol. But if your background gets flagged for a felony…it should trigger an enforcement action as you can’t posses firearms as felon. I have stamped SBR’s, not pistols. The pistols in question will be considered illegal unregistered SBR’s once their made up “rule” is published. This isn’t hard. ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE BRACE ATTACHED TO THEM AFTER THE 120 days…IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE BRACE ON IT…IT IS STILL A FREAKIN’ PISTOL… If one chooses to keep the brace on after the 120 days and they didn’t start a form 1 process then yes. They will be considered having an unregistered SBR with the brace on it. IF YOU DO NOT have said brace attached to firearm. It remains a pistol. IF YOU REGISTERED the pistol either within the rule with tax exemption or regular…you have a registered SBR… Not sure what is so hard to understand… As of the date it’s filed with the registry, not 120 days. Correct. The 120 day countdown starts after in the Federal Register… But that countdown only applied to the 200 coupon. Nowhere are they promising non enforcement during that period. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:45:20 PM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But you can only apply for the free stamp if your pistol has a brace fitted ? If it was fitted then you are denied, removing it does not "cure" the fact you had a SBR when you applied. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 88 days its what stoped me doing mine. I will be honest it scares the heck out of me. I am to old and have to much invested to go to prison for a s&W mp15-p the only ar pistol I own which I got on a whim at the local gun shop to help him out cause he could not sell it and I was already picking up something else. heck throw it on, it will be fun for the kids/grandkids. all because I am past 88 days and its sit on someones desk and its taking to long to process cause nics ends up being down. so here I am stuck with it now. with no course of action since its even called out by name and picture in the FAQ as a SBR. do I sell it off to some body. remove the brace. dont think that will work since it doesnt need the buffer tube to work. so what do people like me and others do..... all the people in states that dont allow sbr. heck if this would have been years ago I would not even be able to file for the free sbr since mo required some form of FFL to have class 3 stuff. this is what I want answered is what do we do. with out the hoopla I just want answers and help. 1. I mean I cant switch the upper. S&W will not sell just a 16 inch upper, or barrel 2. take off the brace....dont know if that will work since the 22 doesnt need the buffer tube to function. it has a fake one. but you cannot remove the tube cause its fake and molded to the lower. 3. file and pray I dont mess up the form, and I get approved in 88 days. 4. sell it to someone and put them in the bind...I cant do this. 5. perm attach a device to bring it up to 16.. which there is only a couple on the market thats over 9 inches. which is really going look stupid. 6.destroy the whole gun..550 bucks gone I am not one of the afrcom rich people. 550 is good money to me. so what do we do... @rmdye the 88 days scare is just that. It is no way different than 88 days on your 4473. NFA doesn’t start your background on submission…your background starts just like on a 4473…when the examiner has your file and processes for approval. Just like when your FFL submits your background when buying a gun. Again. I don’t like this either but understand the framework we operate in. How many illegal guns have you tried to buy on a 4473? So are you saying the pistol configs you have are illegal? Lol. The pistol you posses now and after whatever 120 days remains a pistol…if you attach a brace…that’s on you and all of us. It’s not hard to understand. If you get denied a NFA check for a background…you need to clear up whatever is on there or you are a felon. YOU CAN STILL REAPPLY after a denial and be in compliance with a brace pistol. But if your background gets flagged for a felony…it should trigger an enforcement action as you can’t posses firearms as felon. I have stamped SBR’s, not pistols. The pistols in question will be considered illegal unregistered SBR’s once their made up “rule” is published. This isn’t hard. ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE BRACE ATTACHED TO THEM AFTER THE 120 days…IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE BRACE ON IT…IT IS STILL A FREAKIN’ PISTOL… If one chooses to keep the brace on after the 120 days and they didn’t start a form 1 process then yes. They will be considered having an unregistered SBR with the brace on it. IF YOU DO NOT have said brace attached to firearm. It remains a pistol. IF YOU REGISTERED the pistol either within the rule with tax exemption or regular…you have a registered SBR… Not sure what is so hard to understand… But you can only apply for the free stamp if your pistol has a brace fitted ? If it was fitted then you are denied, removing it does not "cure" the fact you had a SBR when you applied. Correct. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:47:00 PM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are those that are fuck this brace rule, fuck that bump stock rule, fuck the SBR pistol rule, fuck the FRT rule, not all fuck that 3rd hole rule. Penalties are the same but there seems to be a definite increased level of fear based compliance to the 3rd hole rule. Videos full of “fuck all that”, but not of fuck that 3rd hole. Seems like the 3rd hole instills fear of the ATF coming a knocking. Drilling that third hole has the same legal ramifications, but there's literally 0 benefit to doing it unless you have the requisite parts to utilize it. ATF considers the lower to be a machinegun even in the absence of those parts. Merely marking the correct location is sufficient for them to declare it a machinegun. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:48:52 PM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do you want to be a white conservative...  |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:49:22 PM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @nexttime … they don’t simply sit on a NICS check … when it gets entered you get a result: approved/denied/delayed… Examiner gets your file…say after 3 months of submittal. The examiner checks your submitted info…ok. Checks out. Cool. Next comes background…into the NICS we go…88 days starts. Ok cool. You pass. Green light. Stamp approved. You get email. NCIS check result is pretty darn instant with again…a result… Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: They can and will sit on it and they will blame the "huge backlog". What recourse do you have if they do sit it past the 88 days? Write a letter? You've already admitted you are felon in possession of an SBR. Nolo asked them this question and the reply from the ATF is that they would start their standard enforcement procedure. How much clearer do you need to hear it? This is a trap. @nexttime … they don’t simply sit on a NICS check … when it gets entered you get a result: approved/denied/delayed… Examiner gets your file…say after 3 months of submittal. The examiner checks your submitted info…ok. Checks out. Cool. Next comes background…into the NICS we go…88 days starts. Ok cool. You pass. Green light. Stamp approved. You get email. NCIS check result is pretty darn instant with again…a result… https://www.ammoland.com/2022/03/fbi-and-atf-in-a-lovers-quarrel/ During the application process, the ATF relies on the recommendations that come from the FBI NICS check. The nuance here is that the FBI only makes recommendations in these cases to the ATF. They do not make a decision, as would be the case of regular firearm purchases. The FBI is only giving the ATF their results and has no skin in the game. But what happens when there is a denial by the ATF and an applicant wants to appeal that decision? There basically is no suitable appeal process for those seeking relief in these situations. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:50:36 PM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But that countdown only applied to the 200 coupon. Nowhere are they promising non enforcement during that period. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 88 days its what stoped me doing mine. I will be honest it scares the heck out of me. I am to old and have to much invested to go to prison for a s&W mp15-p the only ar pistol I own which I got on a whim at the local gun shop to help him out cause he could not sell it and I was already picking up something else. heck throw it on, it will be fun for the kids/grandkids. all because I am past 88 days and its sit on someones desk and its taking to long to process cause nics ends up being down. so here I am stuck with it now. with no course of action since its even called out by name and picture in the FAQ as a SBR. do I sell it off to some body. remove the brace. dont think that will work since it doesnt need the buffer tube to work. so what do people like me and others do..... all the people in states that dont allow sbr. heck if this would have been years ago I would not even be able to file for the free sbr since mo required some form of FFL to have class 3 stuff. this is what I want answered is what do we do. with out the hoopla I just want answers and help. 1. I mean I cant switch the upper. S&W will not sell just a 16 inch upper, or barrel 2. take off the brace....dont know if that will work since the 22 doesnt need the buffer tube to function. it has a fake one. but you cannot remove the tube cause its fake and molded to the lower. 3. file and pray I dont mess up the form, and I get approved in 88 days. 4. sell it to someone and put them in the bind...I cant do this. 5. perm attach a device to bring it up to 16.. which there is only a couple on the market thats over 9 inches. which is really going look stupid. 6.destroy the whole gun..550 bucks gone I am not one of the afrcom rich people. 550 is good money to me. so what do we do... @rmdye the 88 days scare is just that. It is no way different than 88 days on your 4473. NFA doesn’t start your background on submission…your background starts just like on a 4473…when the examiner has your file and processes for approval. Just like when your FFL submits your background when buying a gun. Again. I don’t like this either but understand the framework we operate in. How many illegal guns have you tried to buy on a 4473? So are you saying the pistol configs you have are illegal? Lol. The pistol you posses now and after whatever 120 days remains a pistol…if you attach a brace…that’s on you and all of us. It’s not hard to understand. If you get denied a NFA check for a background…you need to clear up whatever is on there or you are a felon. YOU CAN STILL REAPPLY after a denial and be in compliance with a brace pistol. But if your background gets flagged for a felony…it should trigger an enforcement action as you can’t posses firearms as felon. I have stamped SBR’s, not pistols. The pistols in question will be considered illegal unregistered SBR’s once their made up “rule” is published. This isn’t hard. ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE BRACE ATTACHED TO THEM AFTER THE 120 days…IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE BRACE ON IT…IT IS STILL A FREAKIN’ PISTOL… If one chooses to keep the brace on after the 120 days and they didn’t start a form 1 process then yes. They will be considered having an unregistered SBR with the brace on it. IF YOU DO NOT have said brace attached to firearm. It remains a pistol. IF YOU REGISTERED the pistol either within the rule with tax exemption or regular…you have a registered SBR… Not sure what is so hard to understand… As of the date it’s filed with the registry, not 120 days. Correct. The 120 day countdown starts after in the Federal Register… But that countdown only applied to the 200 coupon. Nowhere are they promising non enforcement during that period. Speaking of... Do they actually have the statutory authority to disregard the tax requirements for "making" an NFA firearm (which is what a Form 1 is). |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:53:21 PM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Correct, and braced pistols are illegal on day 1. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 88 days its what stoped me doing mine. I will be honest it scares the heck out of me. I am to old and have to much invested to go to prison for a s&W mp15-p the only ar pistol I own which I got on a whim at the local gun shop to help him out cause he could not sell it and I was already picking up something else. heck throw it on, it will be fun for the kids/grandkids. all because I am past 88 days and its sit on someones desk and its taking to long to process cause nics ends up being down. so here I am stuck with it now. with no course of action since its even called out by name and picture in the FAQ as a SBR. do I sell it off to some body. remove the brace. dont think that will work since it doesnt need the buffer tube to work. so what do people like me and others do..... all the people in states that dont allow sbr. heck if this would have been years ago I would not even be able to file for the free sbr since mo required some form of FFL to have class 3 stuff. this is what I want answered is what do we do. with out the hoopla I just want answers and help. 1. I mean I cant switch the upper. S&W will not sell just a 16 inch upper, or barrel 2. take off the brace....dont know if that will work since the 22 doesnt need the buffer tube to function. it has a fake one. but you cannot remove the tube cause its fake and molded to the lower. 3. file and pray I dont mess up the form, and I get approved in 88 days. 4. sell it to someone and put them in the bind...I cant do this. 5. perm attach a device to bring it up to 16.. which there is only a couple on the market thats over 9 inches. which is really going look stupid. 6.destroy the whole gun..550 bucks gone I am not one of the afrcom rich people. 550 is good money to me. so what do we do... @rmdye the 88 days scare is just that. It is no way different than 88 days on your 4473. NFA doesn’t start your background on submission…your background starts just like on a 4473…when the examiner has your file and processes for approval. Just like when your FFL submits your background when buying a gun. Again. I don’t like this either but understand the framework we operate in. How many illegal guns have you tried to buy on a 4473? So are you saying the pistol configs you have are illegal? Lol. The pistol you posses now and after whatever 120 days remains a pistol…if you attach a brace…that’s on you and all of us. It’s not hard to understand. If you get denied a NFA check for a background…you need to clear up whatever is on there or you are a felon. YOU CAN STILL REAPPLY after a denial and be in compliance with a brace pistol. But if your background gets flagged for a felony…it should trigger an enforcement action as you can’t posses firearms as felon. I have stamped SBR’s, not pistols. The pistols in question will be considered illegal unregistered SBR’s once their made up “rule” is published. This isn’t hard. ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE BRACE ATTACHED TO THEM AFTER THE 120 days…IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE BRACE ON IT…IT IS STILL A FREAKIN’ PISTOL… If one chooses to keep the brace on after the 120 days and they didn’t start a form 1 process then yes. They will be considered having an unregistered SBR with the brace on it. IF YOU DO NOT have said brace attached to firearm. It remains a pistol. IF YOU REGISTERED the pistol either within the rule with tax exemption or regular…you have a registered SBR… Not sure what is so hard to understand… As of the date it’s filed with the registry, not 120 days. Correct. The 120 day countdown starts after in the Federal Register… Correct, and braced pistols are illegal on day 1. After the 120 days...IF you decide to be non-compliant and keep it a brace pistol...The pistol itself is not illegal without a brace on it even after the 120 days....if you attach a brace to it...and its not on a form 1...it is non-compliant...based on this rule...which I do not like either...but at least I see how the framework laid out...we will have a choice to make within 120 days ... or after the 120 days ... that decision is solely on you ... |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 3:58:23 PM EST
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But you can only apply for the free stamp if your pistol has a brace fitted ? If it was fitted then you are denied, removing it does not "cure" the fact you had a SBR when you applied. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 88 days its what stoped me doing mine. I will be honest it scares the heck out of me. I am to old and have to much invested to go to prison for a s&W mp15-p the only ar pistol I own which I got on a whim at the local gun shop to help him out cause he could not sell it and I was already picking up something else. heck throw it on, it will be fun for the kids/grandkids. all because I am past 88 days and its sit on someones desk and its taking to long to process cause nics ends up being down. so here I am stuck with it now. with no course of action since its even called out by name and picture in the FAQ as a SBR. do I sell it off to some body. remove the brace. dont think that will work since it doesnt need the buffer tube to work. so what do people like me and others do..... all the people in states that dont allow sbr. heck if this would have been years ago I would not even be able to file for the free sbr since mo required some form of FFL to have class 3 stuff. this is what I want answered is what do we do. with out the hoopla I just want answers and help. 1. I mean I cant switch the upper. S&W will not sell just a 16 inch upper, or barrel 2. take off the brace....dont know if that will work since the 22 doesnt need the buffer tube to function. it has a fake one. but you cannot remove the tube cause its fake and molded to the lower. 3. file and pray I dont mess up the form, and I get approved in 88 days. 4. sell it to someone and put them in the bind...I cant do this. 5. perm attach a device to bring it up to 16.. which there is only a couple on the market thats over 9 inches. which is really going look stupid. 6.destroy the whole gun..550 bucks gone I am not one of the afrcom rich people. 550 is good money to me. so what do we do... @rmdye the 88 days scare is just that. It is no way different than 88 days on your 4473. NFA doesn’t start your background on submission…your background starts just like on a 4473…when the examiner has your file and processes for approval. Just like when your FFL submits your background when buying a gun. Again. I don’t like this either but understand the framework we operate in. How many illegal guns have you tried to buy on a 4473? So are you saying the pistol configs you have are illegal? Lol. The pistol you posses now and after whatever 120 days remains a pistol…if you attach a brace…that’s on you and all of us. It’s not hard to understand. If you get denied a NFA check for a background…you need to clear up whatever is on there or you are a felon. YOU CAN STILL REAPPLY after a denial and be in compliance with a brace pistol. But if your background gets flagged for a felony…it should trigger an enforcement action as you can’t posses firearms as felon. I have stamped SBR’s, not pistols. The pistols in question will be considered illegal unregistered SBR’s once their made up “rule” is published. This isn’t hard. ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE BRACE ATTACHED TO THEM AFTER THE 120 days…IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE BRACE ON IT…IT IS STILL A FREAKIN’ PISTOL… If one chooses to keep the brace on after the 120 days and they didn’t start a form 1 process then yes. They will be considered having an unregistered SBR with the brace on it. IF YOU DO NOT have said brace attached to firearm. It remains a pistol. IF YOU REGISTERED the pistol either within the rule with tax exemption or regular…you have a registered SBR… Not sure what is so hard to understand… But you can only apply for the free stamp if your pistol has a brace fitted ? If it was fitted then you are denied, removing it does not "cure" the fact you had a SBR when you applied. @Vic_Crown this is where reading the rule and reading over and over again helps...really the only way for a NFA submittal to be denied is 1) an error on your form that you fill out...which you can resubmit and still be in compliance (stated within the FAQ) 2) you get denied because you can't pass a background ... but if you can pass a 4473 ... its the same NCIS check ... Anyways...but say you get denied other than being a felony...you at that point can either A) resubmit or B) not submit, destroy the brace and move on or C) install a 16" barrel and a stock ... It is really not rocket science... |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:05:06 PM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ammoland.com/2022/03/fbi-and-atf-in-a-lovers-quarrel/ During the application process, the ATF relies on the recommendations that come from the FBI NICS check. The nuance here is that the FBI only makes recommendations in these cases to the ATF. They do not make a decision, as would be the case of regular firearm purchases. The FBI is only giving the ATF their results and has no skin in the game. But what happens when there is a denial by the ATF and an applicant wants to appeal that decision? There basically is no suitable appeal process for those seeking relief in these situations. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: They can and will sit on it and they will blame the "huge backlog". What recourse do you have if they do sit it past the 88 days? Write a letter? You've already admitted you are felon in possession of an SBR. Nolo asked them this question and the reply from the ATF is that they would start their standard enforcement procedure. How much clearer do you need to hear it? This is a trap. @nexttime … they don’t simply sit on a NICS check … when it gets entered you get a result: approved/denied/delayed… Examiner gets your file…say after 3 months of submittal. The examiner checks your submitted info…ok. Checks out. Cool. Next comes background…into the NICS we go…88 days starts. Ok cool. You pass. Green light. Stamp approved. You get email. NCIS check result is pretty darn instant with again…a result… https://www.ammoland.com/2022/03/fbi-and-atf-in-a-lovers-quarrel/ During the application process, the ATF relies on the recommendations that come from the FBI NICS check. The nuance here is that the FBI only makes recommendations in these cases to the ATF. They do not make a decision, as would be the case of regular firearm purchases. The FBI is only giving the ATF their results and has no skin in the game. But what happens when there is a denial by the ATF and an applicant wants to appeal that decision? There basically is no suitable appeal process for those seeking relief in these situations. @nexttime ... if you get a denial on your background and you haven't been denied before ... you can call up the ATF and ask what is the delay or denial on your application and start the process of resubmital or clearing up the background error with NICS ... if your background shows you are a felon than you deserve the darwin award ... sometimes ... if you have a common name and you haven't provided a social .... your background can get delayed ... on NFA stuff ... I always include my social ... even though I have a very uncommon name ... I do not want any hiccups there ... on a 4473 ... I leave the SS# off ... I can guarantee that 95% of people on here that complain about the process never actually talked to the NFA Division before ... do I like the process ... HECK NO ... I wish we didn't have NFA controls ... but we do ... and here we are ... I usually give the NFA branch a buzz if my application is still in the submitted/in-process phase to make sure all is ok ... they usually just say ... sir it is still in-process and active ... but I do that every 6 months if I have an item in "jail" just to make sure ... one time ... a year passed ... called my dealer ... hey has my can been approved ... no ... I call the NFA branch afterwards ... and asked it has been over a year ... could you provide me with an update ... ATF was like we approved this 2 months ago ... called the dealer back ... sure enough ... they didn't take my file out of the "waiting to be approved" stack after receiving the paperwork ... |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:05:21 PM EST
[#34]
yes, totally agree.
fuck their SCAM amnesty. this isnt 1986 anymore. take it apart. doesnt matter its its day 119. its apart non NFA item. then register it on a Form 1. how ever long it takes who cares. and they arent going to rush. or if you dont want to go NFA attach a cool looking fake can on it and be done. Quote HistoryQuoted: They can and will sit on it and they will blame the "huge backlog". What recourse do you have if they do sit it past the 88 days? Write a letter? You've already admitted you are felon in possession of an SBR. Nolo asked them this question and the reply from the ATF is that they would start their standard enforcement procedure. How much clearer do you need to hear it? This is a trap. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:07:42 PM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. First off -- let me clarify my personal stance so there is no misunderstanding of where I stand: I will NOT participate in this BATF "brace is really an SBR" illegal overreach, and validate their ruling just so I can save a measly $200 via so-called "amnesty". And I think anyone who does is just emboldening the BATF to take even more. Don't be eager to admit in writing to a crime you didn't commit just to save a few bucks. Ok, with that out of the way, on to the question regarding ADA and braces: A lot of people, including many on this very board I'll wager, suffer from diabetes and other conditions that cause the nerves to degenerate, and subsequently have shaking/tremors in their hands that hinder their ability to hold a pistol steady. These people very likely have not considered themselves officially "disabled". But are they "disabled" in a way relevant to this topic? Is there some sort of "official" proclamation they need to acquire before they can utilized devices to assist the disabled? Does one have to have a "blue wheelchair" disability license plate to be "disabled"? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ADA interaction is going to be a real interesting angle to this. Not everyone who is disabled has outwardly visible indications. This. First off -- let me clarify my personal stance so there is no misunderstanding of where I stand: I will NOT participate in this BATF "brace is really an SBR" illegal overreach, and validate their ruling just so I can save a measly $200 via so-called "amnesty". And I think anyone who does is just emboldening the BATF to take even more. Don't be eager to admit in writing to a crime you didn't commit just to save a few bucks. Ok, with that out of the way, on to the question regarding ADA and braces: A lot of people, including many on this very board I'll wager, suffer from diabetes and other conditions that cause the nerves to degenerate, and subsequently have shaking/tremors in their hands that hinder their ability to hold a pistol steady. These people very likely have not considered themselves officially "disabled". But are they "disabled" in a way relevant to this topic? Is there some sort of "official" proclamation they need to acquire before they can utilized devices to assist the disabled? Does one have to have a "blue wheelchair" disability license plate to be "disabled"? I don't think bringing the ADA and the medical field anywhere near gun ownership is a good idea. That's just more gov that hates us. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:08:03 PM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why are those that are fuck this brace rule, fuck that bump stock rule, fuck the SBR pistol rule, fuck the FRT rule, not all fuck that 3rd hole rule. Penalties are the same but there seems to be a definite increased level of fear based compliance to the 3rd hole rule. Videos full of “fuck all that”, but not of fuck that 3rd hole. Seems like the 3rd hole instills fear of the ATF coming a knocking. Because right now, or yesterday, or even last week, shit two years ago, someone bought an AR pistol equipped with a brace, legally. They filled out the 4473, passed NICS and went on their merry way. If their life doesn't include online gun stuff, they have no idea that 120 days after this gets published, they're a felon. They changed nothing about the pistol, didn't lie on the 4473, and didn't shoot a bus full of nuns or people that disrespected them, but that doesn't matter. That's why this is bullshit. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:10:19 PM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @nexttime ... if you get a denial on your background and you haven't been denied before ... you can call up the ATF and ask what is the delay or denial on your application and start the process of resubmital or fixing the error ... if your background shows you are a felon than you deserve the darwin award ... I can guarantee that 95% of people on here that complain about the process never actually talked to the NFA Division before ... do I like the process ... HECK NO ... I wish we didn't have NFA controls ... but we do ... and here we are ... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: They can and will sit on it and they will blame the "huge backlog". What recourse do you have if they do sit it past the 88 days? Write a letter? You've already admitted you are felon in possession of an SBR. Nolo asked them this question and the reply from the ATF is that they would start their standard enforcement procedure. How much clearer do you need to hear it? This is a trap. @nexttime … they don’t simply sit on a NICS check … when it gets entered you get a result: approved/denied/delayed… Examiner gets your file…say after 3 months of submittal. The examiner checks your submitted info…ok. Checks out. Cool. Next comes background…into the NICS we go…88 days starts. Ok cool. You pass. Green light. Stamp approved. You get email. NCIS check result is pretty darn instant with again…a result… https://www.ammoland.com/2022/03/fbi-and-atf-in-a-lovers-quarrel/ During the application process, the ATF relies on the recommendations that come from the FBI NICS check. The nuance here is that the FBI only makes recommendations in these cases to the ATF. They do not make a decision, as would be the case of regular firearm purchases. The FBI is only giving the ATF their results and has no skin in the game. But what happens when there is a denial by the ATF and an applicant wants to appeal that decision? There basically is no suitable appeal process for those seeking relief in these situations. @nexttime ... if you get a denial on your background and you haven't been denied before ... you can call up the ATF and ask what is the delay or denial on your application and start the process of resubmital or fixing the error ... if your background shows you are a felon than you deserve the darwin award ... I can guarantee that 95% of people on here that complain about the process never actually talked to the NFA Division before ... do I like the process ... HECK NO ... I wish we didn't have NFA controls ... but we do ... and here we are ... I have had to deal with them several times on a professional basis. I will admit they were always cool. The problem is there was absolutely no consistency between dealings. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:11:18 PM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Vic_Crown this is where reading the rule and reading over and over again helps...really the only way for a NFA submittal to be denied is 1) an error on your form that you fill out...which you can resubmit and still be in compliance (stated within the FAQ) 2) you get denied because you can't pass a background ... but if you can pass a 4473 ... its the same NCIS check ... Anyways...but say you get denied other than being a felony...you at that point can either A) resubmit or B) not submit, destroy the brace and move on or C) install a 16" barrel and a stock ... It is really not rocket science... Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 88 days its what stoped me doing mine. I will be honest it scares the heck out of me. I am to old and have to much invested to go to prison for a s&W mp15-p the only ar pistol I own which I got on a whim at the local gun shop to help him out cause he could not sell it and I was already picking up something else. heck throw it on, it will be fun for the kids/grandkids. all because I am past 88 days and its sit on someones desk and its taking to long to process cause nics ends up being down. so here I am stuck with it now. with no course of action since its even called out by name and picture in the FAQ as a SBR. do I sell it off to some body. remove the brace. dont think that will work since it doesnt need the buffer tube to work. so what do people like me and others do..... all the people in states that dont allow sbr. heck if this would have been years ago I would not even be able to file for the free sbr since mo required some form of FFL to have class 3 stuff. this is what I want answered is what do we do. with out the hoopla I just want answers and help. 1. I mean I cant switch the upper. S&W will not sell just a 16 inch upper, or barrel 2. take off the brace....dont know if that will work since the 22 doesnt need the buffer tube to function. it has a fake one. but you cannot remove the tube cause its fake and molded to the lower. 3. file and pray I dont mess up the form, and I get approved in 88 days. 4. sell it to someone and put them in the bind...I cant do this. 5. perm attach a device to bring it up to 16.. which there is only a couple on the market thats over 9 inches. which is really going look stupid. 6.destroy the whole gun..550 bucks gone I am not one of the afrcom rich people. 550 is good money to me. so what do we do... @rmdye the 88 days scare is just that. It is no way different than 88 days on your 4473. NFA doesn’t start your background on submission…your background starts just like on a 4473…when the examiner has your file and processes for approval. Just like when your FFL submits your background when buying a gun. Again. I don’t like this either but understand the framework we operate in. How many illegal guns have you tried to buy on a 4473? So are you saying the pistol configs you have are illegal? Lol. The pistol you posses now and after whatever 120 days remains a pistol…if you attach a brace…that’s on you and all of us. It’s not hard to understand. If you get denied a NFA check for a background…you need to clear up whatever is on there or you are a felon. YOU CAN STILL REAPPLY after a denial and be in compliance with a brace pistol. But if your background gets flagged for a felony…it should trigger an enforcement action as you can’t posses firearms as felon. I have stamped SBR’s, not pistols. The pistols in question will be considered illegal unregistered SBR’s once their made up “rule” is published. This isn’t hard. ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE BRACE ATTACHED TO THEM AFTER THE 120 days…IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE BRACE ON IT…IT IS STILL A FREAKIN’ PISTOL… If one chooses to keep the brace on after the 120 days and they didn’t start a form 1 process then yes. They will be considered having an unregistered SBR with the brace on it. IF YOU DO NOT have said brace attached to firearm. It remains a pistol. IF YOU REGISTERED the pistol either within the rule with tax exemption or regular…you have a registered SBR… Not sure what is so hard to understand… But you can only apply for the free stamp if your pistol has a brace fitted ? If it was fitted then you are denied, removing it does not "cure" the fact you had a SBR when you applied. @Vic_Crown this is where reading the rule and reading over and over again helps...really the only way for a NFA submittal to be denied is 1) an error on your form that you fill out...which you can resubmit and still be in compliance (stated within the FAQ) 2) you get denied because you can't pass a background ... but if you can pass a 4473 ... its the same NCIS check ... Anyways...but say you get denied other than being a felony...you at that point can either A) resubmit or B) not submit, destroy the brace and move on or C) install a 16" barrel and a stock ... It is really not rocket science... Again, you are in possession of what they say is a SBR upon application. Removing it upon denial does not make that go away. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:12:38 PM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Speaking of... Do they actually have the statutory authority to disregard the tax requirements for "making" an NFA firearm (which is what a Form 1 is). This is also in question, as there a lot of people who think BATF has no authority to waive the payment of congressionally-mandated taxes. I think there is the possibility that the "free" tax portion of this could get struck and leave the rest of the ruling in place. Be quite the surprise to all those who are just doing it for the 'free' stamp if they suddenly got a notice from Treasury stating they now have a delinquent $200 tax bill. If the BATF can prosecute you because they were "wrong" on what a brace was and now will enforce their new position -- they can CERTAINLY prosecute you for their being "wrong" on the ability to waive taxes, and demand that you now pay them... because, you know... you owed them all along and they BATF just didn't realize it. Kind of like how BATF's position is that braced pistols were actually SBR's all along but they just didn't realize it. Kind of like how they struck the federal "mandate" and fines for ObamaCare, and left the rest in place. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:14:12 PM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 38.5% of all inmates in federal prisons are black which is racist according to the race baiters. The DOJ is taking a lot of heat from the race baiters as a result. So the DOJ is doing everything they can to get that number down, and the best way they can do that is to declare white Trump supporters the greatest threat to the nation and stop putting black people in prison. Do you want to be a white conservative going up in front of an Obama appointed judge on an NFA violation? Not me Jack! Quote HistoryQuoted: 38.5% of all inmates in federal prisons are black which is racist according to the race baiters. The DOJ is taking a lot of heat from the race baiters as a result. So the DOJ is doing everything they can to get that number down, and the best way they can do that is to declare white Trump supporters the greatest threat to the nation and stop putting black people in prison. Do you want to be a white conservative going up in front of an Obama appointed judge on an NFA violation? Not me Jack! Nice attempt at sympathy "baiting" (pun intended). There is clearly no limit as to how far you glowies and imposters will stoop. Just to be clear....your reason attempting to register via the free candy rape van route (even before the rule has been published) is because you are scared of being in front of an Obama judge?  Attached FileLike I said, you glowies and imposters suck at this. https://www.texastribune.org/2018/08/30/under-trump-5th-circuit-becoming-even-more-conservative/  and https://gov.texas.gov/news/post/governor-abbott-signs-second-amendment-legislation-into-law-2021%22 Governor Greg Abbott today signed seven pieces of legislation into law to protect Second Amendment Rights in Texas. The Governor was joined for the bill signing ceremony by Lieutenant Governor Dan Patrick, Speaker Dade Phelan, Senators Donna Campbell, Brandon Creighton, Charles Schwertner, and Drew Springer, Representatives Giovanni Capriglione, Cole Hefner, Tom Oliverson, Matt Schaefer, David Spiller, and other members of the legislature, as well as representatives of the National Rifle Association. Politicians from the federal level to the local level have threatened to take guns from law-abiding citizens — but we will not let that happen in Texas," said Governor Abbott. "Texas will always be the leader in defending the Second Amendment, which is why we built a barrier around gun rights this session. These seven laws will protect the rights of law-abiding citizens and ensure that Texas remains a bastion of freedom. Thank you to the Texas Legislature for getting these bills to my desk." You are not a native Texan, are you son? |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:17:03 PM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I have had to deal with them several times on a professional basis. I will admit they were always cool. The problem is there was absolutely no consistency between dealings. @mooreshawnm just like everything else ... it's how you approach things ... if your call is professional and clear ... no issues ... if you have the MyCOldDeaDHanDs attitude ... they won't be as nice ... but that is the same for any interaction between people ... I've yet to have a rude experience personally both with my local ATF and on the East Coast ... heck ... one time I called the local ATF office because my Class 3 FFL didn't answer phone calls for weeks ... they didn't post anything on their website or social media ... but they did notify the ATF that they will be taking a long vaca ... so cleared that up right away ... |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:24:00 PM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again, you are in possession of what they say is a SBR upon application. Removing it upon denial does not make that go away. @Vic_Crown ... have you read the rule ... if you have or not clear about it ... re-read it ... again ... again ... until you have informed yourself ... I am on my 4th NFA item ... so this isn't anything really new to me ... Again...you get denied for 2 reasons 1) An application error ... no problem ... you can fixed that ... resubmit and still be compliant with the rule ... stated in the rule ... errors are fixable and covered ... resubmits are covered ... 2) You fail background ... if its a NICS error ... that can be fixed ... resubmit ... if you fail because you are a felon or not supposed to have access to firearms ... well ... you got bigger problems to think about at that point ... I don't think we want felons to own firearms now do we? |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:24:10 PM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hmmm. Let's jump to when the background check countdown starts. Then ATF sits on it past the 88 days and does nothing at all, just ignores your application because they are "too busy". After that countdown, are you now a felon in possession (you admitted you are a felon, remember) and you have already provided proof to the ATF that they can use to arrest you? Yes or No? No. You submit your application to the ATF. When they get around to your application, they ask the FBI for a BGC and wait for their proceed or deny response. The 88 days starts when the FBI runs the initial BGC. They try to clear up any unresolved or uncertain issues on that BGC. If they can’t in 88 days, they’ll deny for “Background Check Unresolved”. It’s not the AFT’s decision. They approve or deny based on the FBI’s response. Hope that clarifies it. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:24:29 PM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Again, you are in possession of what they say is a SBR upon application. Removing it upon denial does not make that go away. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The 88 days its what stoped me doing mine. I will be honest it scares the heck out of me. I am to old and have to much invested to go to prison for a s&W mp15-p the only ar pistol I own which I got on a whim at the local gun shop to help him out cause he could not sell it and I was already picking up something else. heck throw it on, it will be fun for the kids/grandkids. all because I am past 88 days and its sit on someones desk and its taking to long to process cause nics ends up being down. so here I am stuck with it now. with no course of action since its even called out by name and picture in the FAQ as a SBR. do I sell it off to some body. remove the brace. dont think that will work since it doesnt need the buffer tube to work. so what do people like me and others do..... all the people in states that dont allow sbr. heck if this would have been years ago I would not even be able to file for the free sbr since mo required some form of FFL to have class 3 stuff. this is what I want answered is what do we do. with out the hoopla I just want answers and help. 1. I mean I cant switch the upper. S&W will not sell just a 16 inch upper, or barrel 2. take off the brace....dont know if that will work since the 22 doesnt need the buffer tube to function. it has a fake one. but you cannot remove the tube cause its fake and molded to the lower. 3. file and pray I dont mess up the form, and I get approved in 88 days. 4. sell it to someone and put them in the bind...I cant do this. 5. perm attach a device to bring it up to 16.. which there is only a couple on the market thats over 9 inches. which is really going look stupid. 6.destroy the whole gun..550 bucks gone I am not one of the afrcom rich people. 550 is good money to me. so what do we do... @rmdye the 88 days scare is just that. It is no way different than 88 days on your 4473. NFA doesn’t start your background on submission…your background starts just like on a 4473…when the examiner has your file and processes for approval. Just like when your FFL submits your background when buying a gun. Again. I don’t like this either but understand the framework we operate in. How many illegal guns have you tried to buy on a 4473? So are you saying the pistol configs you have are illegal? Lol. The pistol you posses now and after whatever 120 days remains a pistol…if you attach a brace…that’s on you and all of us. It’s not hard to understand. If you get denied a NFA check for a background…you need to clear up whatever is on there or you are a felon. YOU CAN STILL REAPPLY after a denial and be in compliance with a brace pistol. But if your background gets flagged for a felony…it should trigger an enforcement action as you can’t posses firearms as felon. I have stamped SBR’s, not pistols. The pistols in question will be considered illegal unregistered SBR’s once their made up “rule” is published. This isn’t hard. ONLY IF YOU HAVE THE BRACE ATTACHED TO THEM AFTER THE 120 days…IF YOU DO NOT HAVE THE BRACE ON IT…IT IS STILL A FREAKIN’ PISTOL… If one chooses to keep the brace on after the 120 days and they didn’t start a form 1 process then yes. They will be considered having an unregistered SBR with the brace on it. IF YOU DO NOT have said brace attached to firearm. It remains a pistol. IF YOU REGISTERED the pistol either within the rule with tax exemption or regular…you have a registered SBR… Not sure what is so hard to understand… But you can only apply for the free stamp if your pistol has a brace fitted ? If it was fitted then you are denied, removing it does not "cure" the fact you had a SBR when you applied. @Vic_Crown this is where reading the rule and reading over and over again helps...really the only way for a NFA submittal to be denied is 1) an error on your form that you fill out...which you can resubmit and still be in compliance (stated within the FAQ) 2) you get denied because you can't pass a background ... but if you can pass a 4473 ... its the same NCIS check ... Anyways...but say you get denied other than being a felony...you at that point can either A) resubmit or B) not submit, destroy the brace and move on or C) install a 16" barrel and a stock ... It is really not rocket science... Again, you are in possession of what they say is a SBR upon application. Removing it upon denial does not make that go away. Not only that.. you gave them all the evidence they need to arrest you and put you jail. That is how this is NOT like any other form 1 application. @thehun06, Not sure why you are trying to make it seem like it's a regular form 1 process because it's bloody well not. You've given a trigger happy, family and children killing agency proof that you are felon, what the fuck do you think they are going to do with that information? You think they are you fucking friends? That they will let it slide? No... they only exist to put you in jail and if they happen to kill you and your dog in the process, they will lose no sleep over it. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:26:36 PM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s important because it’s a test run for them. The Biden administration has openly stated that they want all “assault weapons” on the NFA. This ruling is testing the waters for how many gun owners will fall on their knees for a free tax stamp. Imagine if they came out next week and expanded this “rule” to all AR’s….just fill out the form and you can have a free SBR. Tons of people in this thread would jump on it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Why is this important now? Are pistol braced weapons being used during crimes by the thousands? Hundreds? Tens? Seems like the Glock switches are creating a lot more havoc. Where is the crack-down? Things that make one think, “hmm…” ETA- This is the same group that thought Mt. Carmel would be a morale booster, in addition to securing some additional funding. Brilliant! Now let’s do the smooth .gov thing & pose with some incinerated bodies! It’s important because it’s a test run for them. The Biden administration has openly stated that they want all “assault weapons” on the NFA. This ruling is testing the waters for how many gun owners will fall on their knees for a free tax stamp. Imagine if they came out next week and expanded this “rule” to all AR’s….just fill out the form and you can have a free SBR. Tons of people in this thread would jump on it. This needs repeated. Look at everything we have seen from TPTB over the last few years. This is not a big leap. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:28:50 PM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Vic_Crown ... have you read the rule ... if you have or not clear about it ... re-read it ... again ... again ... until you have informed yourself ... I am on my 4th NFA item ... so this isn't anything really new to me ... Again...you get denied for 2 reasons 1) An application error ... no problem ... you can fixed that ... resubmit and still be compliant with the rule ... stated in the rule ... errors are fixable and covered ... resubmits are covered ... 2) You fail background ... if its a NICS error ... that can be fixed ... resubmit ... if you fail because you are a felon or not supposed to have access to firearms ... well ... you got bigger problems to think about at that point ... I don't think we want felons to own firearms now do we? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Again, you are in possession of what they say is a SBR upon application. Removing it upon denial does not make that go away. @Vic_Crown ... have you read the rule ... if you have or not clear about it ... re-read it ... again ... again ... until you have informed yourself ... I am on my 4th NFA item ... so this isn't anything really new to me ... Again...you get denied for 2 reasons 1) An application error ... no problem ... you can fixed that ... resubmit and still be compliant with the rule ... stated in the rule ... errors are fixable and covered ... resubmits are covered ... 2) You fail background ... if its a NICS error ... that can be fixed ... resubmit ... if you fail because you are a felon or not supposed to have access to firearms ... well ... you got bigger problems to think about at that point ... I don't think we want felons to own firearms now do we? REGARDLESS of the reason for denial - you are already in possession ( or were ) at the point that you are denied. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:31:06 PM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Vic_Crown ... have you read the rule ... if you have or not clear about it ... re-read it ... again ... again ... until you have informed yourself ... I am on my 4th NFA item ... so this isn't anything really new to me ... Again...you get denied for 2 reasons 1) An application error ... no problem ... you can fixed that ... resubmit and still be compliant with the rule ... stated in the rule ... errors are fixable and covered ... resubmits are covered ... 2) You fail background ... if its a NICS error ... that can be fixed ... resubmit ... if you fail because you are a felon or not supposed to have access to firearms ... well ... you got bigger problems to think about at that point ... I don't think we want felons to own firearms now do we? You forgot one: 3) The BATF thinks they have reason to believe the SBR may have been acquired or built after the ruling hit the federal register. Any braced weapon that was NOT possessed or constructed PRIOR to the ruling hitting the register (NOT "before the end of the 120 day amnesty period") does NOT qualify for amnesty nor the waiver of the "free" stamp. *IF* that is found to be the case, you've already submitted an official doc admitting to the felony. This is NOT like a standard SBR form where you are prohibited from possessing or constructing the SBR until you have stamp in hand. In this Pistol Brace situation, you are formally and officially admitting you have an unregistered SBR already in hand, and are applying for amnesty registration so that you are not charged with the crime you have already committed. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:32:23 PM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @nexttime unless you get a denial … and your application shows in process/submitted…you are in the clear…88 days DOESNT START until your NCIS check start when the examiner starts your application. NICS check is instant…they can’t just sit on it unless your background comes up with further research. If they can’t clear up your background…it gets denied. Then you need to call them why…it’s the same process that your FFL does. You will either get an approval, denial or delayed… Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: @nexttime did you read and full comprehended the rule layed out? They can delay the submittal for 5 years all they want…88 days doesn’t start until your background gets processed by an examiner…just like when your FFL submits your 4473 info for a background…either check is on the 88 day hook…NFA or 4473…if your background gets closed after 88 days…you have things to clear up either way. Unless you are registering a completed 80% lower and your a felon…this 88 day thing is blown way overboard… Most of us that have say a PCC that we completed a 4473 on already…do not really have to worry about the 88 day mark unless you’ve become a felon or have something else on your background that would prevent you from possessing said firearm. Hmmm. Let's jump to when the background check countdown starts. Then ATF sits on it past the 88 days and does nothing at all, just ignores your application because they are "too busy". After that countdown, are you now a felon in possession (you admitted you are a felon, remember) and you have already provided proof to the ATF that they can use to arrest you? Yes or No? @nexttime unless you get a denial … and your application shows in process/submitted…you are in the clear…88 days DOESNT START until your NCIS check start when the examiner starts your application. NICS check is instant…they can’t just sit on it unless your background comes up with further research. If they can’t clear up your background…it gets denied. Then you need to call them why…it’s the same process that your FFL does. You will either get an approval, denial or delayed… But it is not the same. If you get delayed on a 4473 and 3 days elapse, the gun shop has the option to proceed with the transaction. With NFA, you don't know until you get a denial letter for the status being "OPEN" for 88 days. And the "OPEN" status may have nothing to actually do with you aside from having a common name but the FBI is too busy doing other shit, like making up more Russiagate documents. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:34:42 PM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No. You submit your application to the ATF. When they get around to your application, they ask the FBI for a BGC and wait for their proceed or deny response. The 88 days starts when the FBI runs the initial BGC. They try to clear up any unresolved or uncertain issues on that BGC. If they can’t in 88 days, they’ll deny for “Background Check Unresolved”. It’s not the AFT’s decision. They approve or deny based on the FBI’s response. Hope that clarifies it. When they call in ten million or so background checks in a couple of month period how many are going to be shelved until NICS has a chance to get to them? Once ATF submits the 88 days start. Once NICS gets around to completing them 2025 has come and gone. |
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Posted: 1/21/2023 4:35:01 PM EST
[#50]
Why is the process so damn long? For any NFA stuff. If they're relying on same background system we use for firearms why isn't NFA approval 5 min? What is the time consuming part?
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