I am actually laughing. The mental gymnastics it is taking to explain away this is hysterical.

It has take on all the aspects of a religion, and as such anything contrary is seen as both heresy and evil

Pretty neat how many of the 5 to 30 minute segments in the MSM consistently skirt around nuanced contexts.

But remember to be a good informed citizen and consume MSM content!

I call this phenomenon "artificial stratification."  I don't know if there is a legitimate psychological term for this behavior (there probably is), but I will admit that I catch myself engaging in it at times.

The phenomenon wherein one's opponent reflexively assumes the diametrically opposite position.

Why is it so important to punish him now?

These 90 some y/o Nazis that have been in the news these past few years weren’t living in hiding. If it was critical to punish them it would have been pursued decades ago.

Charging them with war crimes now is an obvious virtue signal and is nothing more than political theater.

It's possible for both the USSR and the Nazis to have been pieces of shit that deserve to hang. In this particular instance the Nazis lost the war and this particular Nazi seems to have publicly outed himself instead of quietly living in a hole in South America.

You keep posting that bullshit. It is not at all true and/or complete.

The commission's decision to find the Waffen-SS 14th Galicia Division not guilty of collective war crimes was particularly controversial, as the SS had already been determined to have committed war crimes as an organization at earlier war crimes trials. It is thus difficult to determine whether the commission's conclusion that the number of suspected war criminals who either had or were residing in Canada was in fact exaggerated, given how much potential evidence wasn't considered.[9]

By contrast, experts in the field have long argued that Canada had an open door to war criminals, and that the country did far too little to prosecute the alleged war criminals and collaborators who had found refuge there. Historian Irving Abella stated to Mike Wallace of 60 Minutes it was relatively easy for former SS members to enter Canada, as their distinctive tattoos meant they were reliably anti-Communist.[10] Bernie Farber, then the director of the Canadian Jewish Congress, stated Nazis in Canada, of which there were estimated to be 3,000, was Canada's 'dirty little secret'. In the late-1990s, the issue of war criminals living in Canada, and the Canadian government's lack of interest in searching for and prosecuting these individuals, was the subject of investigative reporting by NBC, CBS, the CBC, Global Television, and the New York Times.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desch%C3%AAnes_Commission

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Was referring to the pro-Ukrainian faction

They remind me of the black lady on the Netflix Cleopatra who made the statement “my Grandmother told me Cleopatra was black and to ignore what everyone tells you, so I know Cleopatra was black.”

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On 12 May 2011, aged 91, Demjanjuk was convicted as an accessory to the murder of 28,060 Jews at Sobibor killing center and sentenced to five years in prison with two years already served. Presiding Judge Ralph Alt ordered Demjanjuk released from custody pending his appeal, as he did not appear to pose a flight-risk. This was the first time someone has been convicted by a German court solely on the basis of serving as a camp guard, with no evidence of being involved in the death of any specific inmate.

The emotionally charged hysteria over an elderly Waffen SS veteran in his mid 90s in this thread really surprises me.  It shouldn’t, but it does.  The Pavlovian conditioning is truly impressive.

I had to Google the division he is said to have served in, which is interesting.  From Wiki:



Fighting and killing communists was and is honorable, and I respect him and appreciate his service against the Godless Soviets.  

If he did participate in atrocities against innocent people then that’s another story, but nobody has proven he’s guilty of a damn thing in the last 70 years that prosecutors had a chance to do so, so his extradition by the Canadian government should be considered an official embarrassment to every Canadian.

Well said.

Being of Czech ancestry I would argue they were both bad in ways well past "evil."  I don't think its helpful to start making distinctions between degrees of evil at this level.

The fake outrage so many have is similar to leftist behavior.

The dude is going to be dead sooner than later, he lived his life already and nothing will change that. Maybe its because im younger but im more worried abut shit going on today than shit that happened almost 100 years ago.

You neglected the part of that wiki where they outlined those atrocities

In addition, his source for his "learning" is a Ukrainian Nationalist who has a very biased position.    Another member in another threaad made this very salient point:

When one only "studies" or "reads books" from nationalists with clear agendas, then one's "studies" are clearly flawed.

If you were part of the LE units there at Waco then I would agree with you, but this guy was part of a unit that specifically was part of the effort to kill people for their ethnicity. It isn't because he was under the purview of German command but rather in a specific unit.

I'm siding with the Poles on this one.

begs the question: If that was the case, why didn't the prosecutors at Nuremburg target them? What was SO special about them that they basically wiped their hands of them?

It also states:



The text indicates the the police regiment or regiments assigned to the division were implicated, but I haven’t seen where this old man was a member of same.  

I’m other words, no proof at all he was a war criminal.  

I think there is line you can take between take him out and shoot him in the back the head right now, and probably not a good idea to celebrate the service of an SS officer.  

I think it is entirely reasonable to say, if there is no proof of specific war crimes he should not be left to die of natural causes and also saying he should not be given recognition for his service in front of their parliament

Over 200000 Nazi's were accused of war crimes. Only 6645 were ever brought to trial. Nuremburg simply declared all Waffen-SS units war criminals and then let the Canadians whitewash it.


Nuremburg became boring. There were at least 10 known war criminals under deportation order in the US that never left. No country that could prosecute them is willing to take them.

This.    Applauding in parliment an SS guy for fighting done while he was an SS guy is pretty moronic and a seperate issue than if he was guilty or not of any specific war crime--however, whitewashing an SS division because "Slava Ukraine" is also moronic, IMHO.

Skorzeny is rumored to have worked with the Mossad, the CIA and various other intel agencies around the world.......I dont recollect him being implicated in any Holocaust related activities, else Israel might have killed him........he was associated with SS units dressing as American GIs during the Ardennes offensive and conducting sabotage behind the lines......a predecessor to the Werewolf units

I won't speak for others, but for me this is just another example of a broader trend when it relates to the conflict.

Putin went into this citing the need for denazification in Ukraine.  

First, this was called a False Narrative, Disinformation, Kremlin Information Attacks, etc across the entire spectrum of media

Next, people become aware of nazi symbols and bandera imagery all over Ukraine, but it was called isolated incidents and asked to be covered up

Now, an actual Waffen SS veteran is being honored at a ceremony with Zelensky

This can be abstracted down to
1. Claim happens
2. Ukraine supporters screech "Fake!" and call names
3. Claim can no longer be denied
4. Ukraine supporters start defending it instead of saying its not real

Honestly I don't care whether this 90 year old gets harmed at all, its more interesting to see NAFO getting demoralized and having to take sides between Poland/Russia and Ukraine. Suddenly that part of the world gets a bit more complex than their Cocomelon understanding.

It’s also amusing how they justify current Ukrainian soldiers wearing Nazi symbology… while seemingly not realizing they are by default vindicating those groups in the US that use Nazi symbology as well .

You're not biased at all and it has nothing to do with Nazis, real or imagined.

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Was he in the unit at the time of the crime? Did he actively participate on the crime?

These are some key things you should think about

Now here's a guy who killed a lot of Poles: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mykola_Lebed

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2023/09/27/poland-ukrainian-nazi-veteran-canada-extradition/

Poland’s ambassador to Canada, Witold Dzielski, said the move was a preliminary bid to establish whether Hunka is responsible for crimes committed in Poland as a basis for extraditing him.

He told Canada’s Global News that an extradition process has not started but that the minister has sent a request to Poland’s Institute of National Remembrance — a government body which investigates Polish history including crimes committed during World War II — to consider a possible extradition.

Like I said, this whole POLAND EXTRADITING UKRAINIAN NAZI thing is just baiting the suckers, and the suckers here always rise to the bait. We will likely never hear anything about this guy again.

Big difference between foreign waffen SS units and what you are probably thinking (black uniformed Algemeine SS)

Shit, he figured out that I do not like Ukraine. Cover is blown.

He was in the SS and is a Nazi.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ukrainian_collaboration_with_Nazi_Germany

The elimination of Jews during the Holocaust in Ukraine started within a few days of the beginning of the Nazi occupation. The Ukrainian Auxiliary Police, which formed mid August 1941,[15] assisted by Einsatzgruppen C, and Police battalions rounded up Jews and undesirables for the Babi Yar massacre,[16] as well as other later massacres in cities and towns of modern-day Ukraine, such as Kolky [17][18], Stepan,[19][20] Lviv, Lutsk, and Zhytomyr.[21] During this period, on 1 September 1941, Nazi-sponsored Ukrainian newspaper Volhyn wrote, in the article "Zavoiovuimo misto" (Let's conquer the City): "All elements that reside in our land, whether they are Jews or Poles, must be eradicated. We are at this very moment resolving the Jewish question, and this resolution is part of the plan for the Reich's total reorganization of Europe."[22][23][24][25], "The empty space that will be created, must immediately and irrevocable be filled by the real owners and masters of this land, the Ukrainian people".[26][27]


In May 2006, the Ukrainian newspaper Ukraine Christian News commented, "Carrying out the massacre was the Einsatzgruppe C, supported by members of a Waffen-SS battalion and units of the Ukrainian auxiliary police, under the general command of Friedrich Jeckeln. The participation of Ukrainian collaborators in these events, now documented and proven, is a matter of painful public debate in Ukraine"

The prevailing belief is that these men eagerly volunteered to take part in a patriotic war against the Soviets, not because of any support for Nazi Germany.[47][page needed] Also, at least some of them were victims of compulsory conscription, since Germany had by then suffered defeats and lost manpower on the eastern front.[48] Sol Litman of the Simon Wiesenthal Center states that there are many proven and documented incidents of atrocities and massacres committed by the unit against minorities, particularly Jews during World War II.

In total, the Germans enlisted 250,000 native Ukrainians for duty in five separate formations including the Nationalist Military Detachments (VVN), the Brotherhoods of Ukrainian Nationalists (DUN), the SS Division Galicia, the Ukrainian Liberation Army (UVV) and the Ukrainian National Army (Ukrainische Nationalarmee, UNA).[6][39] By the end of 1942, in Reichskommissariat Ukraine alone, the SS employed 238,000 native police and 15,000 Germans, a ratio of 1 to 16.


Basically EVERYTHING that happened in UKR during WW2 was done by UKR collaborators




 

As long as he fought against the communists honorably and without atrocities directed at civilians then I don’t have a problem with it.  You’re right though, in that the optics are difficult to overcome for the emotional masses as this thread demonstrates.

Great point. Imagine that Russia sees foreigners coming in, and setting up the same armies of collaborators (using the same symbols as before, even), and it is cause for concern to put it mildly

I thought the number was closer to 20 MILLION murdered by Nazis, 40 MILLION by Stalin and 60 MILLION by Mao.

Your 100 MILLION by commies is spot-on, but I think you're light on the Nazi murder victims' number.

We can toss in some Best Korea, Cambodia, Laos, Vietnam numbers too, but I'm not going to look them up. Hell, commies went on murder sprees in South/Central America too, for that matter. Who knows what the tally may actually be?

Bless your heart.

That region during that time period was anything but black & white.

And you probably think the Civil War was all about slavery too

People wanting further US involvement in Ukraine

And/or

H. S. Precision/Troy Industries market being concerned about setting a precedent.

I am going on the assumption that at least some of the support for the SS guy is also support for those involved in Ruby Ridge, Waco, et al and how this kind of thing could set a precedent.

Yep a two bit Nation with imaginary or non imaginary Nazis is about to invade a nuclear superpower.

Do you even think these things through?

I had a neighbor in 2000 that told me he was in the nazi youth.  I wasn't too keen on the old guy.  When he spoke out against Bush over Gore, I recall thinking that I wish he could be imprisoned for being a war criminal.  Now, whatever.  He's dead my now, I'll bet.

You're the one making up an invasion scenario, so no it doesn't sound well thought out.

All kinds of stuff Ukraine was (key word: was) capable of besides Invading Russia, Such as hosting neo nazi military organizations right next to their border (at least they hit the speedrun record for nazis hiding in a bunker from the russian army, congrats), shooting artillery into areas that were trying to join russia because their say in government had just been violently revoked, etc. How long do you think we'd let artillery battles go on in monterrey MX before taking action? "But Russia was involved from the start" - so would we be

and "Imaginary nazis" lol, check thread title and report back.

Because the Polacks are pissed off by the Ukrainians.

Ironic

i could be wrong on the number the Nazi's killed of their own people.

just nothing even close to how many people the commie's killed.

Talk about guilt by association… is there any proof he directly participated in war crimes?