I just chose a possible cause. I don't think there's any evidence of this being malicious on the part of the reporting party in the airmans case? Mostly looks to be incompetence and not minding their own business to be the cause.

Yes the actual trigger pulling is all on the deputy. Not that anything legal will possibly happen to the caller, but I'd say morally they share some fault by initiating the whole thing to begin with.

The point is you shouldn't be harassing people based on weak and unreliable third party allegations. Then fucking innocent people over once you're there.

knocking on a door to determine if you are beating the hell out of your life partner isnt harassing people. And if someone thinks they are witnessing a crime then they should get the police involved.   Who knows, maybe if someone had called 911 before the day of the shooting the situation would have had a different outcome.

No one "witnessed" anything at all. An uninvolved party reported hearing some noises.

You guys would love it if everyone was a snitch huh?

What are you trying to say with calling the cops on an earlier date? Are you still subscribing to the airman being guilty of any sort of DV previously?

For anyone defending this cop, I am genuinely asking you to comment on a situation that I actually experienced first hand.

One night, the alarm went off at my house. It indicated that our front door had been opened after we armed the house. My wife woke me up and showed me, so I armed myself with an 11.5" AR with a flashlight and got to work. Wife stayed in the bedroom with her Glock 43x and waited.

I cleared our floor, then the 2nd floor, then the main floor. Not even 15 seconds after I had finished clearing the lowest floor (where the glass front door is), a police officer knocked. I had set my rifle down upstairs at the same second he knocked, meaning he missed seeing a large (6'3") male with an AR with a flashlight in the dark in the house by maybe 30 seconds. He was responding to a (possible) B&E.

I survived, explained to the cop that it must have been a sensor error since I had just cleared the house. He thanked me, asked me what I cleared it with, we had a good laugh and he left.

Here's the big question:

Would the cop have been justified in shooting me if he saw me through the glass door, with an AR, acting in an "aggressive" manner, when he came upon the house?

Please explain to the fullest of you ability why you think he would be justified in shooting me inside my own home. Thank you.

I believe that is the US capitol police you are referencing.

A woman said she heard a domestic disturbance from that apartment.  She also stated, according to the 911 caller, having heard similar things in the past coming from the same apartment.  The 911 caller is the one that stated she had heard a DV assault 2 weeks prior but was unsure of the exact address at the time and didn’t call.  



I do wish people would call more often when they see stuff versus waiting until someone else calls then coming out and telling me that they saw the suspect at a point where we could have caught them but decided to “mind their own business”. If you view that as being a “snitch” then that’s your issue to deal with





IIRC his girlfriend is said to live in Atlanta and is refusing to talk to FDLE about what happened.  As a result it is possible that the other resident hears the pair arguing via FaceTime. If that is the case, and the woman had called 911 instead of the office there’d be more info for the responding deputies to work with.   They would still knock the door but would have an idea of what might be going on.  

Like I've been saying, highly unreliable as she was WRONG.



Which crimes should people report? Would you like the public to report any and all lawbreakers they witness? Do you support every single law on the books in this country?




"Sheriff’s records obtained by the Miami Herald on Thursday show that in the 17 months prior to the shooting, there were no calls, complaints or incidents at Fortson’s unit. However, another unit — 1412 — had repeated domestic calls, including a “battery,” several welfare checks and an EMS call for a “hemorrhage” at the unit. Deputies were called 10 times to 1412 since August 2023, records show. It’s not clear from the records whether that unit is in the same building as Fortson’s, but no other unit in the complex had as many complaints."

From a few pages back. If this proves to be accurate then he had absolutely nothing to do with any DV whatsoever. Some half-assed intel gathering prior to making contact could have avoided the whole fuck up.

I think the disconnect is stronger than even I thought it was.  Ever since 2020 most folks I know went from “Back the Blue” to “Wouldn’t piss in a cops ass if his guys were on fire”.  I can’t imagine why that happened though, so I’m probably wrong.  So, carry on.

Well, since my other thread was filled with a few stupid comments and then shut down I'll ask it again here. Considering @Low_Country brought up 'training practices' and that seems to be a 'get out of jail free' card sometimes for questionable behavior, have any lawsuits been brought specifically against, or included the training department or those that sign off on training. @LaywerUp

@Stryker - why'd you shut down my thread?? I asked a legitimate question regarding a LEGAL question b/c I am genuinely interested in this aspect.  With all the jackassery that Mods allow around here, and all the trolling, you choose to shut down a legitimate thread because you are afraid OTHER people can't control themselves?  If the responses weren't to your liking then ban the responder from that thread.

Was she?  Again; what was happening between the victim and the female he was FaceTime'ing? That is one thing that should be in the FDLE report if the female begins to speak with LE.  This may also be determined via other means






Crimes against person and property such as larcenies, assaults, murders, shootings in city limits, etc.  Add in suspicious people/vehicles and traffic offenses like DWI and reckless driving.  







What constitutes "half assed intel gathering"? Would talking to people that know/have been told about prior incidents count? Would getting a specific address count? Would listening at the door of the specific residence prior to knocking on the door count? How much information from "half-assed intel gathering should be required before 1) a call for service is entered 2) LEOs starting heading towards an incident location 3)officers begin to interact with anyone at the incident location 4)begin to address the incident?




The FDLE report should consist of:

- the results of neighborhood canvases where the victim's neighbors talk about what they heard
- interview with the person the victim was FaceTime'ing with (if she chooses to talk to LEOs)
- interview with the 911 caller (the person seen on the BWC footage)
- interview with the woman that called the leasing office
- review of the audio of the 911 call (and any associated incidents that may pop up)
- notes on the victim's address held b the leasing office (if any exist)
- interviews with other apartment staff
- interviews with members of the victim's unit
- interview with the deputy
- review of the deputy's training and performance records
- review of the deputy's record
- any lab work done on the deputy
- criminal history for everyone involved
- prior interactions with that agency and other agencies (again for all the parties involved)
- list of calls for service for the complex, in particular the building where the shooting occurred



The items that are underlined will paint a more accurate picture of what things were like at/around the victim's residence

That would have been a good question to ask the cop. That particular cop may NOT have shot you. Another, like the subject of this thread, probably would have.

ETA: "Justified" seems to be very subjective. But, regardless, you would be dead.

What video did you watch where a woman said she heard a domestic disturbance from that apartment?

Maybe most of the people you know dont support police....people are free to feel however they want. I interact with the public 5-6 days a week in a jurisdiction that is home to over 1 million people (not to include people that come into the area for work/travel) and my day easily has more positive interactions with the community than negative ones. Multiple times a day I, and I'm certainly not the exception, have people randomly come up to me and thank me for the job that I do and point out that there are more people that support us than the vocal minority that hates us that the media shows. So you have your experiences and I have mine.




Was there a drop in support of LE during COVID/2020 riots? Sure there was.  Was it significant, no. Has the lack in support remained at those levels? Again no....especially with people learning how bogus BLM was.

Well seeing as how the guy was alone in his apartment, no one has claimed he harmed them, and there is no record of him having any sort of DV issue ever.. yes I would call that wrong. They were wrong about hearing any kind of assault coming from his apartment just like they were wrong about him having DV calls. They just knew it was him in that apartment.. except it was someone else two doors down.





Some things may be a lot more cut and dry - I'm watching someone being stabbed and screaming for help right now. Sure. Do I trust nosey moronic karens to call in what they think is a DWI or larceny or yelling that sounds like DV? Not so much.






This in your list bellow, is checking a call/service history for the location you're going to not a standard practice? If he had checked and found that no one has been called to that apartment ever, that might be a clue. Then if he's smart enough to check for incidents elsewhere in the building, and oh hey look two doors down has an extensive history, he just might be on to something.

I don't consider going in blind solely based off of what someone thinks they heard to be intel gathering.


The FDLE report should consist of:

- the results of neighborhood canvases where the victim's neighbors talk about what they heard
- interview with the person the victim was FaceTime'ing with (if she chooses to talk to LEOs)
- interview with the 911 caller (the person seen on the BWC footage)
- interview with the woman that called the leasing office
- review of the audio of the 911 call (and any associated incidents that may pop up)
- notes on the victim's address held b the leasing office (if any exist)
- interviews with other apartment staff
- interviews with members of the victim's unit
- interview with the deputy
- review of the deputy's training and performance records
- review of the deputy's record
- any lab work done on the deputy
- criminal history for everyone involved
- prior interactions with that agency and other agencies (again for all the parties involved)
- list of calls for service for the complex, in particular the building where the shooting occurred




Most of what you listed, especially the underlined, has nothing to do with what happened. Even if he did slap his girlfriend around on a previous occasion it would have no impact on the justification for shooting him on that day. He was alone in the apartment.

If it was unknown to the officer or irrelevant then, why should it have any impact on trying to justify his shooting the man now?

What in the blue fuck would calls for service in another apartment, let alone another building, have to do with whether or not it was acceptable police work for this cop to kill an innocent man who wasn't an immediate threat?

If those are acceptable parts of the FDLE investigation, then Officer Acorn and all of the other errors that other cops on his department should be considered.

IIRC, the current situation was hearsay.
And then Karen threw in a convoluted story about personally hearing a violent slap half a month earlier.

She directed the deputy explicitly to Fortson's apartment.
It's not his fault he was knocking on Fortson's door.
Everything after that point IS his fault.

The call they were dealing with on that day was a domestic disturbance, not a DV assault.  The assault claim was made in reference to an incident from 2 weeks ago while the call for that day is described as "okay but this time it sounds like it is getting out of hand" (time stamp 16:29:08 - BWC, 1:04 YT). At no point des the 911 caller say that there have been calls to 911 made about that apartment. She says "She says this happens frequently" (BWC - 16:29:05, 1:00 - YT).  So again; what was being said between the victim and the female he was FaceTime'ing?  It seems like that is what prompted the call.







Cool; thanks for outlining that.








Ok lets break this down.  

For a lot of CAD systems you will see a list of prior calls at the address entered for the call for service.  In this call, it appears the address given is either for the leasing office (not uncommon) or an apartment building but not a specific apartment.  So, a search of call history is only going to net you so much.  The issue you have is that you are speaking directly (in person, face to face) with a person that is telling you it is a specific apartment; in this case apartment 1401 (16:29:35 - BWC, 1:30 YT) . She isnt saying "I think it might be 1401" or "it sounds like it coming from around the staircase on the 4th floor".  She reconfirms it is 1401 (16:29:37 BWC, 1:33 YT and 16:29:39 BWC, 1:35 YT) before the deputy enters the elevator. She even provides directions of how to get to that apartment ( 16:29:54 BWC, 1:50 YT).

Now absent that interaction, the deputy might be inclined to go to 1412 (has it been determined that 1412 is in that building; one of the linked articles said that it hadnt) first if he knew about the history there and there wasnt any more info providing a specific address.   Now if the deputy knows that 1412 has domestics, he likely isnt going to go there first unless he hears something coming from that direction since he has been told that THIS incident is coming from 1401. You are dealing with an apartment complex where I am sure more than one argument has happened in an apartment other than 1412.  After going to 1401 and finding no disturbance he may then go over to 1412 since he knows they have a history.





So what information should cops have before doing anything (entering a call, responding to a location, interacting with people, etc)?

Also; is speaking with people who have knowledge of an incident location, people involved, etc "half assed intel gathering" or not?







The underlined most certainly has something to do with what happened. That is telling you what other people heard that day, history of similar things coming from that apartment, etc. It is dumbfounding that such information would be viewed as having nothing to do with what happened.






Correct and Ive never said that it had an impact on the shooting.



Not directed solely at you:

the victim could have been having a screaming match and it isnt going to suddenly make the shooting justified. It seems like people view the incident as "the shooting was wrong, so the entire thing was wrong" which isnt the way these things usually shake out.  Absent something new popping up about the management or someone having an issue with the victim; it seems like SOMETHING happened in 1401 and thats why that apartment was specifically cited to the deputy.  Again; that doesnt justify the shooting

The statement about previous violence should have been given essentially no credence since she followed it up with "but I wasn't sure where it came from".

Nothing that we heard should have lead the officer to think that there was violence in play in the apartment.  It all goes to the officer escalating from the moment he touched the door.

"but I wasn't sure where it came from".

The short answer is they would have found a way to justify it to get him off the hook and it’s pretty easy for them to do when they come upon someone holding a gun.  

I get it to an extent, they’re coming into an unknown situation where all they know is there’s a possible bad guy doing real bad guy shit.  But they have to understand they can come across an armed homeowner as well.  


And I had similar incident, only our door and windows were covered with blinds so I was able to pull down a single blind to see it was the cops banging on my door at 2am and put my gun down out of sight before answering the door.  

Here’s a video from several years ago that didn’t end well for the homeowner.  

Curtilage includes the area right outside the domicile.  In this case the "doorstep" (your words) is part of the curtilage, which at an apartment is much smaller than you are assuming.



You've made this claim already, its not true.  As I said earlier, and as the deputy actually did pre-shooting, he could've moved perpendicular to the "doorstep", parallel with the wall/railing.  In fact he did it once.



It does.  Whether you want it to or not does matter.



So he wasn't brandishing now?  He got himself killed because he was:

A. He was minding his own business
B. Someone brought the man into his life
C. He was unaware someone brought the man into his life
D. He was unaware of the situation
E. He chose to exercise his 2nd Amendment
F. He ran across/into 'that cop' on 'that day'
G. He broke no law, at all
H. He was not afforded the ability to surrender
I. He was gunned down

Those are some mighty interesting "pieces" to a hell of a "puzzle".

And you blame him?  Get some help.

It's pretty common for grown-ass men who are online gamers to shout, holler, scream like a loon, make angry outbursts, and also at times throw things. I don't do such buffoonery as that, but I've see'nt it. None of which is illegal, unless it rises to a level of an excessive noise violation.

Who knows, maybe the airman was a gamer?  That's one plausible  explanation for strange sounds to have come from his apartment other than domestic violence.

Sooner or later the girlfriend will probably make a statement of some sort.

Here's one that didn't go so well for the cop. But yea, you're still dead.

https://www.wfaa.com/article/news/local/tarrant-county/appeals-court-upholds-aaron-dean-conviction-fatal-atatiana-jefferson-shooting/287-4bc64efb-74c8-430a-b148-0ae6a4e909c6

Probably as soon as soon as the family’s lawyer establishes her statement will assist the lawsuit and she should be included in the settlement.  

"Arfcop" who rarely posts here. There's a saying "Lawful but awful". I'm not sure he'll be found guilty of anything under Fl law, but every one of my officers that watched it had the same reaction - they didn't like the shoot.

IMO this shoot was not really a system, training, or even a mindset failure, but an individual making a terrible decision under stress. I wonder if he ever "What if'd" that scenario. I know it's one that we bring up to officers often. We've had 2 similar encounters in the past 2 weeks, one with a knife and the other with a gun, but both were resolved peacefully.

It was real simple to ask my desk if there were any other calls to an address or adjacent addresses . It's important to know, especially if it's a DV or potential DV call.

The problem with "lawful but awful" is that it's effectively the same as a righteous self-defense shooting.  Heck, it's worse because "awful" shoots are accepted as what reasonable officers do.

"You get what you tolerate."  

What relevance do calls to adjacent addresses have?

And yet the cops still knelt for blm.

What someone thinks they hear from one location, may not actually be where the noise is coming from.

It's not to say that something isn't going on a 2, but since 4 had previous calls, and the caller just reported noise and nothing visually at 2, the noise could have been from any structure in a line from the callers location.
I might change my approach to how I go to the address since 4 has previous. Instead of coming from the left and going to 2, I would either come down the road going past 5 and 4 before making the turn to 2, or ask another unit to do the same if available.  

ETA: It's just trying to get as much info as possible about the area I'm going into, more or less in the blind.

That sounds like a very effective method to get unrelated information to create RAS when there isn't any.

APP ARMOR to the rescue.

Some did


Just like politicians

Just like average citizens

Just like members of the military

Just like countless other people across the planet



and just like the overwhelming majority of people; cops didnt take a knee.

"call the cops"
"I am the cops"
"What is wrong with you??!"

Upon seeing the homeowner with his WML, he did what GD says could have been done in Florida: Moved to where the resident couldn't shoot him without moving himself.
Having gotten himself out of potential danger, the cop then moved in on the homeowner for the purpose of shooting him.

lol

Exactly.

Fortson needed a Linux security app?

That like button would be handy now.

Proposed this earlier.  He could have been on xbox live playing COD for all the 2 Karens knew.  Common to call others Bitch and all sorts of names that might be confused for DV.  Not unheard of to toss controllers either.  

The body cam reveals that the Deputy knew it was 4th party information.  The apartment employee clearly didn't want any part of it and deferred to the Karen that was present.  Then she had her sketchy 2 weeks ago slap story. No history of DV calls to the residence.  The question is how moronic of a story does it have to be before it doesn't warrant an investigation.

I suspect the Deputy knew it was BS and was pissed about being there.  Hence why he doesn't wait for backup and starts pounding on the door. Airman opens the door with gun, he's caught off guard and starts blasting.

funny how people on this board will rabidly defend cops acting as Judge Dredd style executioners, mowing people down for possessing a firearm when they themselves could just as easily be murdered by the police for little to no reason.

What exactly is 4th party information?

To everyone not a LEO, there is a huge difference between knocking on a door and pounding on it demanding entry.

After the cop murdered her boy friend?  Knowing how the TBL covers each other's asses?  She will live a lot longer and happier life just saying "No comment "

This person asked me to tell you that there may be some sort of argument.

https://weartv.com/news/local/he-excelled-with-honor-hurlburt-field-airmen-travel-to-atlanta-for-airmans-funeral

Not sure if posted before, but that's a lot of backing the Blue (USAF).

Info from a party who heard about it from a 3rd party, AKA hearsay.

And yet some did.

FIFY because I can relate.

In the 90's we sang running cadences begging somebody to start a war when we weren't pondering the delicacy of eskimo pie.

I’m curious as to how calling the police on a guy talking to his girlfriend on the phone earlier would have provided a different outcome.  Are you saying they had a missed opportunity to send a non faggot coward to only lecture him about loud telephone conversations instead of shooting him for it?