Door dash, Amazon, fed ex, Usps and UPS get it wrong often even though my house number is on the curb, my mailbox and my house and they are delivering in daylight

Sad what NM has turned into. Used to be a decent state then liberals and communists ruined it.

It's a jury trial, and the judge made no rulings on trespass or illegal search.  

A jury comes to a verdict, and isn't asked to explain why.  This is why verdicts are simply verdicts in individual trials, and can't and shouldn't be used to interpret and apply law in other cases.

Looking forward to the bodycam.

Dear Police: You shoot enough innocent people every year that innocent people should view you as a threat to life and limb.  I once got asked by an officer why i had a radar detector.  I was in too many wrecks in my racing days on the track to have any interest in speeding. “Well officer…it tells me when the most dangerous driver on the road is about to make a surprise appearance at 150 miles an hour going the wrong way down the highway…you know, that guy…”



If I have enough presence of mind to tell that someone has a holstered pistol I probably have the presence of mind to see their complete police uniform if they were wearing it.  If the homeowner shoved a gun in the officers face then yeah fuck that guy even though it was the wrong house.  If the guy had it in hand, good for him.  That’s his right.

Rule number 1: NEVER have a gun in your hand when dealing with the police.   The first thing I did, even after having killed someone and being wasted on adrenaline, was sit the gun down on my wife's car and walk away from it.  I knew the cops were about 30 seconds away, and I'm not dying like that.

Rule number 2: NEVER FORGET RULE #1.

You can violate that rule if you want to, but all you are going to do is have the police saying how sorry they are while you are dead on the floor, and even if they pay out a lawsuit, you're still dead.  

Wow.

Those specific police officers seem to be really bad at that specific time.

I don't know protocol needs to be put into place for this to stop happening but it needs to happen before more random innocent homeowners are killed by the government.

That was different.
Evidence was presented at trial to support the claim that the resident pointed a firearm at the intruder.
And I don't believe evidence to dispute that claim was presented. So far we have no evidence that Dotson pointed a firearm at anybody.

And apparently the jury decided, as I did, that she had every right to point a firearm at Dean, or any other intruder who breached a fence and shined a flashlight in her bedroom window.
It could also be argued that she had the right to shoot Dean if he presented an immediate threat by pointing a firearm at her (which he did) or attempting to breach the window.

Did the officers commit a crime by knocking on the door of a home? No.

Did the homeowner respond to a knock on his door in a criminal manner? Maybe.

Is self defense justified when someone unlawful points a firearm at you? Yes.

All of the above it true whether they were cops, Mormon missionaries or magazine salesmen

Yeah this would all be good info, but we will never get it.

While that is VERY good advice - it is not clear that the occupants KNEW the police were at their front door.

In fact the Police press release indicates the wife only realised it was police AFTER she had seen her husband shot and she had returned fire.

Maybe in your town.

Holstered, holding, brandishing or aiming? Do you even know the difference?

I put on my pants before I answer the door. Handgun in its holster.

They should start using pizza delivery boys as cop car drivers to make sure they get the right address.

Or at least throw your vest or plates on.

Why mine stay near my gun.

Cops need to realize they are working in an environment where they can screw up.  They don't get to shoot everyone.  It is normal behavior to have a gun if someone is unexpectedly at the front door, especially in the middle of the night.

If there was any hint of aggressive action on the part of the homeowner, I have no doubt the cops would have lead with that.

I probably would have been trying to get verbal communication started while out of sight, enough to tell whoever it was, cops or not, to GTFO, and also be trying to call 911 about unwelcome visitors.

I'm betting they teach in police academy to shoot the instant a gun is visible. There are too many instances of these types of incidents happening. Further, is there not a better way? Like confirming the address, landmarks (cars in driveway, types of cars, etc any info that dispatch must obtain), etc? Finally QI must end. Just because you have a badge doesn't place you above the law. You should be held to the same standard any non leo is held to concerning the law.

It looks like the front door had a lot of glass.

I wonder if it was opaque ?

Could officers see in ?

Could homeowner see out ?

Attached File

Get a video doorbell and you will never have to deal with this shit.

Lock your outside door.  Make sure it's not all glass otherwise they'll see your firearm.

leave your light on

very clearly put your house numbers under said light next to the door.

Talk through the door, no need to open it.

Not this guys fault but when idiots are near you need to go to extra lengths to protect yourself.

Bottom line is a man is dead because Cops were looking for an even number address on the odd number side of the street…Sad

Ohh For sure.  This is a given.

If this happened to me, if police (or anyone) showed up at my place after dark, especially in the middle of the night and I did not recognize them (by window, peephole or security cam or their voice) I certainly would not open the door to give them a better/more accurate shot at me, no mater what weapon I was packing.

I would demand them to ID themselves.  IF Not LE and unknown to me, I'd say, "I think you need to head ass on up the road as nothing in here is worth dying for."  If I thought it was LE, I'd ask what they wanted, if I didn't think it was LE I'd tell them to hold on, I'm calling 911, to verify it was LE, before I open the door.

I think unless it was something really bad I was wanted for (in which I would not be) that anyone legit, would wait for me to make the call.
Anyone coming through the door before or during my call would be fair game and could be picked up later at the coroners convenience.

So....just to make sure I understand this....I go knocking on doors at night, someone points a gun at me I can shoot them? Everything's GTG?

JBT this it getting old.

the corrupt cops will get off with no punishment

but if the home owner had lived, he would go to prison

FJBTs

F anyone that supports this shit in the least.

If the door is accessible to the public, you’re good.

if you can support either, you are the problem.

"Did the home owner respond to a knock on his door in a criminal manner?"  WTF is that?
And how is "all of the above (is) true" when you inserted a "maybe" and a "criminal manner"?




While there is a difference, someone showing up unexpected at 11:30 at night might meet an armed response.   So my original question remains.  You show up at my house at 11:30 at night looking for your lost spouse, and I answer my door armed, do you think you can legally shoot me?  Are YOU armed on MY property at 11:30 at night....if so, does any of those differences matter?

yep

murder charge. That is what it would be if the homeowner killed a cop.

Can't expect the police to get the right side of the street for an address.  Who do you think they are?  Dominos?  Pizza Hut?

no excuse to support murder.

an innocent died. typ cop argument. make up whatever excuse you need.

So if I'm in my own house, with my own gun, and I open my own door, what would responding to a knock on my door at 11:30 pm in a "criminal manner" look like?

There is no excuse no matter what you say. The cops were at the wrong house. IT IS THEIR FAULT NO MATTER WHAT THE INNOCENT PERSON DID.

KEEP SUPPORTING MURDER

If I show up at your door at 11:30 day or night and you point a firearm at me I am legally justified in shooting you. You don’t get to point a gun at someone for knocking on your door. The place potential visitors are supposed to be. Have some self control and muzzle discipline or buy a holster.

Wth is "respond to a knock on his door in a criminal manner" even supposed to mean?

Are implying its illegal to answer YOUR OWN DOOR in the middle of the night armed?

I never got shot but had the cops respond to an armed burglary in Corona CA back in the 90s to the wrong address.

I lived in apartment building G and they responded to apartment building L down the road. Not sure why they randomly picked building L because I had told dispatch apartment building "G" as in "Gulf" and as in "Golf". The L building was close enough for the four burglars cleaning out my neighbors townhouse to hear the commotion and hit the wind.

Corona PD responded very quickly, if not to the wrong apartment building, but after I convinced dispatch that NO her officers weren't all around my building now but rather a block down the road they brought a K9 officer with the biggest police dog I ever saw in my life. The K9 was an Irish Wolfhound and was nearly bigger than the officer holding its leash. The K9 alerted on the residence across the greenbelt from me so from my upstairs patio I had a perfect overwatch (Mossberg 12-gauge with 00 buck) as the K9 zeroed in on the enclosed barbecue patio of my neighbors.

That dog was up on its hind legs barking and pulling the officer towards the trimmed bushes and short 40" fence. The officer got his feet planted and started winning the war against that 110 pound dog. The officer says something to the dog and it sits. The officer pulls his pistol and points it towards the bushes and yells stand up or I'll release the dog. Dude pops up, officer says put your hands in the air! Dude complies and starts mumbling about his dropped hat and lowers his arms - dog is well trained and leaps up from the sit towards the kid and the officer barely restrains the dog with one hand while holding gun with the other.

PUT YOUR HANDS IN THE AIR!

Dude complies and the dog stops, officer puts it to sit again.

For a second time the kid lowers his hands while telling the officer I just dropped my hat, I'm going to pick it up yo' ... and lowers his hands.

Dog springs at the guy's thoat for a second time barking and snapping like a demon possessed. The cop is leaning back at 45-50 degrees trying to hold the dog back and shouts:

PUT YOUR MOTHER FUCKING HANDS IN THE GOD DAMN AIR OR I WILL RELEASE THIS DOG AND HE WILL FUCK YOU UP! (or words to the effect)

Finally the kid complies and a minute or two the additional responding officers cuff the kid.

What I didn't see is what was happening to the other three thieves. One was a juvie female who was caught without incident by an officer. The other two older ones were approached from behind on the sidewalks that snake around the complex. As the cop came upon them from behind they continued to talk back-n-forth after being told to stop. He had them drop to their knees and put their hands up. They continued to talk between each other. As the lone officer came up he noticed a (stolen) .357 revolver sitting on the sidewalk between the two guys.

That officer announced the gun on the radio while the kid I was watching was worried about his hat and that's why K9 was so aggressive with his response.

That was my very first felony trial.

Ends up my neighbor is a kid of a legit LA rapper. Dad is wealthy enough to put his kid in the townhouse next to me. Where he plays rap music at volume 10 from 1 PM when he wakes up to 10 PM when he has to turn it down everyday of the week. He knocked up one of the homies sisters (the juvie female) so they want Pampers money so they take to robbing the guy. When I walked into the courtroom for the case one side was all blue uniforms and the other side was all red gang members colors. The juvenile cases disappeared from my perspective, the two adults weren't charged with the gun because although it was stolen from the very neighborhood they lived in 30 miles away it was just discovered there by coincidence. They were convicted of residential burglary and sentenced to 2-5 years. The local police said that it would be a good thing for me to move after testifying against the blood gang members.

The story is better over beers.

Never talk to cops, stay out of sight, instruct them to leave.  Report people claiming to be cops, still stay out of sight.

All I'm learning from this is shoot faster than whoever is about to murder you.

That rule applies to LE as well?

You'll see the shooting caused by one of two things:


1- home owner opens the door with gun in hand but not pointed at anyone. One officer calls gun and the victim is shot


2 - home owner opens door with gun in hand, is lax with muzzle awareness and sweeps/points at officers, officers then shoot victim.

Brandishing a firearm in a threatening manner which is different than merely holding it.

Pointing (aiming) the firearm which is more serious than mere brandishing and is a form of assault.

Shooting the firearm.

edit not worth it.

JBTs will always be JBT.

These problems are academic and not an issue in rural BFE WY. BUT...we have very few officers...where they live is common knowledge. If I were to wait until midnight and make the rounds knocking on each of their doors what is the chance I will have a firearm pointed at me. It isn't zero. You're telling me I'm good to pop them.

It isn't 11:30 in the morning, it is 11:30 at night and no one knows if the person pointed a gun AT the cops or not.
And no, you are not legally justified in shooting me if you (a stranger) show up at my door at 11:30 at night.

Just to be clear, BLM could have legally blasted these guys, right?

edit

once again, not worth it.

I am so glad i see the JBT side of it.

now i know to shoot first because it doesnt matter how wrong they are, they are going to kill innocents.

Yes. They screwed up

I would bet you money, less than 1% of the population was ever taught that. Even fewer remember it. Kudos to you for knowing.

They could have easily been legally blasted.

No, your a Citizen in your own home, answering the door late at night. Dealing with people, from govt, you can't trust.

It is just to bad that the wife did not have a an AR15 with 100rd mag full of green tip and a mad moment resulting from seeing her man gunned down. Maybe the next one will.

I'm about to get into the assassination business.  
Show up at someone's door at 3 in the morning.  
If they answer the door armed, blast them.
If they are not armed, simply walk away and come back the next night, and the next night, and the next night, UNTIL they get pissed/scared and show up armed....and them BLAST THEM.