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Posted: 3/8/2022 7:36:53 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yay one step closer to nuclear Armageddon  Nah. Those planes will never be in Ukrainian hands. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 7:39:46 PM EDT
[#2]
Is this like the military industrial complex version of Cash for Clunkers?
Trade in your beater mig and get a sweet F-16 |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 7:39:46 PM EDT
[#3]
Methinks the MIG29s are just dealer trade-ins for F16 replacements
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Posted: 3/8/2022 7:41:16 PM EDT
[#4]
I’ll go out on a limb and say those planes never get to the Ukrainians.
There will be avionics that need to be changed. Then there will be something else, who knows And then there will be that none of the nato countries will let them be flown from their borders into Ukrainian air space. Especially not armed. I’d even bet they’re nothing more than a bargaining chip for one side against the other. A concession that can later be given on something you never truly intended to do in the first place. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 7:43:12 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's the question that makes people swallow hard. High tech jets require sophisticated airport and maintenance facilities. Any airfield not in Ukraine that is used for takeoffs and landings becomes subject to attack for not remaining neutral. So, to your question--just because the Ukrainians might get fighter planes now--where in the blue blazes do they take off from? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Does Ukraine have a relatively safe airbase still open to refuel and rearm these? That's the question that makes people swallow hard. High tech jets require sophisticated airport and maintenance facilities. Any airfield not in Ukraine that is used for takeoffs and landings becomes subject to attack for not remaining neutral. So, to your question--just because the Ukrainians might get fighter planes now--where in the blue blazes do they take off from? Turkey would be a good choice |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 7:45:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Direct military assistance of a non defensive nature violates the previous pact Russia had with the Ukraine. It will be used as provocation and validation by Russia to go all in. So the Russians aren't all in now? What's left...declare war and invade Ukraine? 
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Posted: 3/8/2022 7:45:47 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Turkey would be a good choice Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Does Ukraine have a relatively safe airbase still open to refuel and rearm these? That's the question that makes people swallow hard. High tech jets require sophisticated airport and maintenance facilities. Any airfield not in Ukraine that is used for takeoffs and landings becomes subject to attack for not remaining neutral. So, to your question--just because the Ukrainians might get fighter planes now--where in the blue blazes do they take off from? Turkey would be a good choice Turkey is a NATO country, though. Putin would look at that as NATO involvement and that would lead to some not-very-nice things. I think Poland just thought they'd cooked up a clever way to get some F-16's by trading in their cash for clunkers like somebody said.  They knew the US wouldn't necessarily go along with it, but they might get other NATO members to put pressure on the US to let the Ukrainians have them. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 7:52:42 PM EDT
[#8]
Looks like it’s a no go again
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Posted: 3/8/2022 7:54:30 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Turkey is a NATO country, though. Putin would look at that as NATO involvement and that would lead to some not-very-nice things. I think Poland just thought they'd cooked up a clever way to get some F-16's by trading in their cash for clunkers like somebody said. They knew the US wouldn't necessarily go along with it, but they might get other NATO members to put pressure on the US to let the Ukrainians have them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Does Ukraine have a relatively safe airbase still open to refuel and rearm these? That's the question that makes people swallow hard. High tech jets require sophisticated airport and maintenance facilities. Any airfield not in Ukraine that is used for takeoffs and landings becomes subject to attack for not remaining neutral. So, to your question--just because the Ukrainians might get fighter planes now--where in the blue blazes do they take off from? Turkey would be a good choice Turkey is a NATO country, though. Putin would look at that as NATO involvement and that would lead to some not-very-nice things. I think Poland just thought they'd cooked up a clever way to get some F-16's by trading in their cash for clunkers like somebody said. They knew the US wouldn't necessarily go along with it, but they might get other NATO members to put pressure on the US to let the Ukrainians have them. Putin would NEVER attack Turkey. Of all the NATO countries bordering Russia, never Turkey. Germany will put the MIG29s on ebay. Someone will step up with $5-million in Pay Pal F&F for one in the US. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:01:53 PM EDT
[#10]
Have y'all ever thought that this is all smoke and mirrors and the deal is done with the jets already trickling in quietly?
It makes zero sense to just take all the jets fly them in all at once. That would be the biggest fur-ball since WWII. Hell, some of them could already be there and flying. Everyone that thinks they will just fly a massive mission into the country is an idiot. If the folks in control fly them in like that then they are dumber than the Russian logistics officers. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:03:56 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. How many does the Russian Air Force shoot down and Putin escalate? We should've been arming UKR 8 years ago. They should have spent some of the money they've been fleecing from everybody for years on some national defense. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:04:13 PM EDT
[#12]
Biden will fuck over the Polish people just like Obama did. To the people of Poland, you can’t trust the current United States Democrat Party.
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:05:51 PM EDT
[#13]
they will never see these migs
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:21:28 PM EDT
[#14]
If they actually intend to do this, then why the fuck is it being talked about in public? Just quietly give some of them a new paint job, put Ukrainian roundels and markings on them, then let Ukrainian pilots pick them up in a neighboring country and fly them home. Nobody would know with any certainty where the fuck they came from at that point. But by blobbing about it in public, now it is obvious. So if there really is any intention at all about giving these to the Ukrainians, the people involved went about this in the most stupid way possible. How fucking dumb can you be?
Frankly, I don't think a handful of worn out MiG-29s would be of any benefit to Ukraine anyway. Every single airfield they have is within range of Russian weapons. So they'll just get blown up on the ground like most of their other aircraft were. Keeping the anti-tank missiles and shoulder fired SAMs flowing will be far more beneficial to Ukraine. And it isn't so overt. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:23:45 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So the Russians aren't all in now? What's left...declare war and invade Ukraine? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Direct military assistance of a non defensive nature violates the previous pact Russia had with the Ukraine. It will be used as provocation and validation by Russia to go all in. So the Russians aren't all in now? What's left...declare war and invade Ukraine? Russia made it crystal clear for other nations to stay out of it past the arms agreement previously accepted, when the Ukraine broke away. which means neighboring countries and select NATO countries could only provide short range defensive arms. Period. Any escalation by those countries providing long range offensive type weapons would be regarded as an act of war. In or out ya can’t have both without paying a price. No Russia is not all in yet. Putin already mentioned nukes and the asshole might get desperate enough to do it ! Almost as if he is baiting another country to dare to step up and validate his will to attack a NATO allied country. Actually invading a previously non aggressive country is a dam dangerous way to saber rattle ! In or out ? Make a decision ! In..with the shit bag administration we have now it will cost lots of American lives ! We should stay as far from this as possible. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:25:16 PM EDT
[#16]
If Putin went for Poland it’s on like Donkey Kong. I don’t believe he will do it, just look at the issues Ukraine is giving him.
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:27:03 PM EDT
[#17]
Biden and his cronies looks like a fool in all this.
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:27:12 PM EDT
[#18]
my question is ..who flys them?
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:30:00 PM EDT
[#19]
This seems more and more like the elites couldn't get enough people killed with covid so they are trying to start a world war to thin the population more.
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:33:23 PM EDT
[#20]
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:35:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like it’s a no go again Good. It is a stupid fucking idea anyway. The only thing giving those to Ukraine would accomplish is getting every airport that is still under Ukrainian control bombed to smithereens. They had a lot more than 20-something fighters when the war began. What happened to those? The same fate would befall these while also increasing the risk of widening this conflict. Forget trying to supply them with jet fighters. It is too late for that. Now it is all about Javelins, NLAWS and Stingers. With enough of those, they can make this unwinnable for Russia. And they can't be taken out like an aircraft parked on an apron somewhere. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:41:28 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is this like the military industrial complex version of Cash for Clunkers? Trade in your beater mig and get a sweet F-16 On the American taxpayer,yay! |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:43:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Looks like it’s a no go again The fog of war reporting strikes again! I blame twitter |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:45:50 PM EDT
[#24]
Why cant they just shut the fuck up on shit like this... why do we need to tell every one every thing we do
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:49:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Does Ukraine have a relatively safe airbase still open to refuel and rearm these? This^^^^. I see them getting shot up as soon as they land. If they fly them out of another country, Russia declares war on them. It’s still a sporting move. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:51:24 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lets get the party started No, thank you. This is a European problem, and should be settled by Europeans. This is payback from Putin for the US using Uke as a playground for decades. Millions for Hunter, 10% to the big guy, no billion for you if you don't fire the prosecutor. We need to back the eff off and fix our own damned country. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:52:00 PM EDT
[#27]
I'm ok with Europe sending gear to Ukraine.
Just leave the US out of it |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:52:11 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why cant they just shut the fuck up on shit like this... why do we need to tell every one every thing we do You expect the US military to keep a secret these days? You shouldn't tell the joint chiefs of staff anything knowing that they will be phoning their counterparts in China with said information as soon as they possibly can. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:54:41 PM EDT
[#29]
I think flooding the Ukraine with Stingers, Javelins, NLAWs, AT4s, RPGs, Sniper rifles, and C4 is the way to go.
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Posted: 3/8/2022 8:59:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia made it crystal clear for other nations to stay out of it past the arms agreement previously accepted, when the Ukraine broke away. which means neighboring countries and select NATO countries could only provide short range defensive arms. Period. Any escalation by those countries providing long range offensive type weapons would be regarded as an act of war. In or out ya can’t have both without paying a price. No Russia is not all in yet. Putin already mentioned nukes and the asshole might get desperate enough to do it ! Almost as if he is baiting another country to dare to step up and validate his will to attack a NATO allied country. Actually invading a previously non aggressive country is a dam dangerous way to saber rattle ! In or out ? Make a decision ! In..with the shit bag administration we have now it will cost lots of American lives ! We should stay as far from this as possible. Quote HistoryQuoted: Russia made it crystal clear for other nations to stay out of it past the arms agreement previously accepted, when the Ukraine broke away. which means neighboring countries and select NATO countries could only provide short range defensive arms. Period. Any escalation by those countries providing long range offensive type weapons would be regarded as an act of war. In or out ya can’t have both without paying a price. No Russia is not all in yet. Putin already mentioned nukes and the asshole might get desperate enough to do it ! Almost as if he is baiting another country to dare to step up and validate his will to attack a NATO allied country. Actually invading a previously non aggressive country is a dam dangerous way to saber rattle ! In or out ? Make a decision ! In..with the shit bag administration we have now it will cost lots of American lives ! We should stay as far from this as possible.  Attached FileRussia isn't going to shit if we "give" these planes away. I swear, some of y'all need to take a xanax. Quoted: Why cant they just shut the fuck up on shit like this... why do we need to tell every one every thing we do negotiating in public can have benefits |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 9:05:33 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Turkey is a NATO country, though. Putin would look at that as NATO involvement and that would lead to some not-very-nice things. I think Poland just thought they'd cooked up a clever way to get some F-16's by trading in their cash for clunkers like somebody said. They knew the US wouldn't necessarily go along with it, but they might get other NATO members to put pressure on the US to let the Ukrainians have them. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Does Ukraine have a relatively safe airbase still open to refuel and rearm these? That's the question that makes people swallow hard. High tech jets require sophisticated airport and maintenance facilities. Any airfield not in Ukraine that is used for takeoffs and landings becomes subject to attack for not remaining neutral. So, to your question--just because the Ukrainians might get fighter planes now--where in the blue blazes do they take off from? Turkey would be a good choice Turkey is a NATO country, though. Putin would look at that as NATO involvement and that would lead to some not-very-nice things. I think Poland just thought they'd cooked up a clever way to get some F-16's by trading in their cash for clunkers like somebody said. They knew the US wouldn't necessarily go along with it, but they might get other NATO members to put pressure on the US to let the Ukrainians have them. Antony Blinken stated a couple days ago that we were the ones pressing Poland on this matter, after Zelensky had his little beg-a-thon Zoom call with Congress. This was not the Polish governments clever scheme, but our own government's (both D and R). |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 9:06:22 PM EDT
[#32]
Don't get your hopes up. Poland won't allow the planes to fly into Ukraine from their country and will only transfer them to the USA. Multitude of issues:
1- What country is going to allow those jets to fly from their airport into Ukraine? 2- Would Germany allow them to do so? (I doubt it). 3- All the pics I've seen of these Polish MIG-21s don't have refueling probes. 4- Even if those did, are they compatible with NATO tankers? 5- USA would have to find a country that will allow these jets to land, takeoff, and fly directly into Ukraine. 6- Plus, any countries these jets have to overfly would have to give approval. 7- Does USA pilots fly those into Ukraine, or Ukrainian pilots. 8- If Ukrainian, the country those jets are in would need to give approval just for the pilots to be in their country. 9- If USA, will Biden risk USA pilots in Ukrainian. Would they need Raptor escorts? See where all this is going? Poland said "no" by saying "yes" with insurmountable obstacles. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 9:08:55 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I wouldn't be surprised. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And of course we're paying for the Pole's F16s? I wouldn't be surprised. The article says the Polish government is going to give them to the USA for free. Previously, they wanted "fresh" F-16s as I predicted, but fresh meant later block and few hours/cycles. Translated, that means they were not willing to wait for factory produced F-16s which would probably be two or more years. They wanted F-16s from USA inventory. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 9:17:11 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Direct military assistance of a non defensive nature violates the previous pact Russia had with the Ukraine. It will be used as provocation and validation by Russia to go all in. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 9:19:55 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, thank god all those territorial agreements regarding Ukraine are still intact and functioning. For a minute there, I was worried that someone had ripped them up and rolled an invading army into Ukraine. Yeah it's hard to hold people to their agreements when one side is a purely bad actor. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 9:20:32 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I doubt they had very many more pilots than they had fighters at the start of the war. Bet a good percent of them are KIA/MIA now. Wonder if NATO volunteers will fly under Ukraine flag incognito. Russia did it to us in Vietnam and Korea. I bet you're very wrong. Because that wouldn't make any sense. Most air forces have more pilots than planes. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 9:21:22 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not going to happen ! The US is not dumb enough (even with Biden admin) to do that. It would be a direct overt action. Might as well just say fuck it and declare war. It’s bullshit back door diplomacy in an attempt to get other NATO nations into stepping into this mess.. and letting them do the fighting for them. Direct military assistance of a non defensive nature violates the previous pact Russia had with the Ukraine. It will be used as provocation and validation by Russia to go all in. and..it says “ready to be transferred” as a back door offering. Not the transfer is approved ! @Number1gun What the hell do you people think us directly sending in Stingers and Javelin's is? Am I living in bizzaro world where the rest of NATO isn't actively pumping in supplies and weapons? They aren't even hiding it at this point. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 9:21:27 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ll go out on a limb and say those planes never get to the Ukrainians. There will be avionics that need to be changed. Then there will be something else, who knows And then there will be that none of the nato countries will let them be flown from their borders into Ukrainian air space. Especially not armed. I’d even bet they’re nothing more than a bargaining chip for one side against the other. A concession that can later be given on something you never truly intended to do in the first place. 21st Century Lend Lease. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 9:29:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I doubt they had very many more pilots than they had fighters at the start of the war. Bet a good percent of them are KIA/MIA now. Wonder if NATO volunteers will fly under Ukraine flag incognito. Russia did it to us in Vietnam and Korea. Doesn't the US have a squadron of Ace "Aggressor" fighter pilots versed in Soviet - Russian Equipment who are hot pilots?? Seems there is some historical precedents if they "Volunteered to "Get Busy". AVG Group (the Famous Flying Tigers)  Eagle Squadron (Americans who flew for the RAF in the early war years)  BIGGER_HAMMER 
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Posted: 3/8/2022 9:35:55 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's a cartel war and we are the luciferian globalists led by Gates,Soros,Fauci,Obama,Clinton,Biden,Bush,Romney, Bezos,Zuckerberg,Klaus Schwab, determined to destroy America and build back better...aka a globalist vassal state. Putin is the other side of the same coin...build back better after you destroy what is... The only way to win is not to play. Spot on. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 9:44:52 PM EDT
[#41]
I'd like to request the Ukrainians capture an s400 and send it over the border for further inspection.
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Posted: 3/8/2022 9:52:31 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wonder if NATO volunteers will fly under Ukraine flag incognito. Russia did it to us in Vietnam and Korea. I smell a script for TopGun 3. Mav is lured out of retirement and gets one last ride, this time in a MiG. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 9:52:31 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With all due respect, get some help. It’s literally happening now. Not sure how you don’t see it. They aren’t hiding it anymore. Klaus has written all about it. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 11:43:51 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No shit? I'd have thought MiG's might require nicely manicured runways and support that's not that portable. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: That's the question that makes people swallow hard. High tech jets require sophisticated airport and maintenance facilities. Any airfield not in Ukraine that is used for takeoffs and landings becomes subject to attack for not remaining neutral. So, to your question--just because the Ukrainians might get fighter planes now--where in the blue blazes do they take off from? UKRAINIAN MIGs Operations are often on public roads and their support is very agile. The USAF is learning this proven process right now. No shit? I'd have thought MiG's might require nicely manicured runways and support that's not that portable. Mig 29's were specifically designed to operate from rough and improvised airfields. They have reinforced landing gear and louvers that drop over their air intakes for take off and landing to keep out FOD. There are secondary intakes on top of the aircraft to feed the engines. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 11:46:13 PM EDT
[#45]
With the nukes that Russia has, Putin can take all of Europe and there’s not a damn thing anyone will do about it.
One button and it’s lights out. Nukes are a double edge sword. When someone who’s not afraid to die has them, they’re unstoppable. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 11:51:25 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What kind of bull shit is that? Poland trying to say we didn’t give Ukraine planes it was some one else? Either way they still get F16s. This is what it is….Putin isn’t going to give a shit he’ll see it as the Poles escalated things and so did everyone else involved. It could actually make him deploy more destructive weapons. Is what really matters is does he think Russia, and himself, would survive a nuclear exchange with the US? I honestly think they could nuke us and there is a better than 50% chance our govt would just take it rather than inflict “additional damage to the environment” |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 11:54:00 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 21st Century Lend Lease. Back when we would quaintly vote on such matters and sign them into law. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 11:55:22 PM EDT
[#48]
The migs are just there for an exercise. Once they get closer to the border, they might accidentaly end up inside Ukraine attacking Russians. The pilots will have to call their Mom's afterward.
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Posted: 3/8/2022 11:57:00 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With the nukes that Russia has, Putin can take all of Europe and there’s not a damn thing anyone will do about it. One button and it’s lights out. Nukes are a double edge sword. When someone who’s not afraid to die has them, they’re unstoppable. He’s not unstoppable. If he starts popping off nukes there’s going to be a lot more that go off inside his borders, which will stop him. The world would look a lot different, but there would definitely be a lot of dead Russians in it to be sure. |
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Posted: 3/8/2022 11:57:23 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With the nukes that Russia has, Putin can take all of Europe and there’s not a damn thing anyone will do about it. One button and it’s lights out. Nukes are a double edge sword. When someone who’s not afraid to die has them, they’re unstoppable. Nukes can be intercepted. |
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