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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:08:50 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hell, Confidential can be stored in a cheesy Office Depot filing cabinet or desk drawer as long as it has a "lock." Most people still put it n a GSA approved safe though. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not all classified info must be stored in a SCIF. Confidential and secret may be stored in an appropriate storage container (safe) outside of a SCIF.  Confidential is supposed to be handled and stored just like Secret. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:10:19 PM EDT
[#2]
Not a SCIF but my office.
Secret and some limited access only program stuff that is classified secret. Cropped intentionally. No rules broken at all. 
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:10:22 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh. If it’s only confidential or secret, it’s hardly classified anyway. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:17:43 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What matters is that if it were you or me in this situation we'd be in Federal pound me in the ass prison right now. But since it's a DC swamp creature it's cool. This 1000% |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:19:28 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh. If it’s only confidential or secret, it’s hardly classified anyway. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Not all classified info must be stored in a SCIF. Confidential and secret may be stored in an appropriate storage container (safe) outside of a SCIF. Meh. If it’s only confidential or secret, it’s hardly classified anyway.  "Secret" shall be applied to information, the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause serious damage to the national security. "Confidential" shall be applied to information, the unauthorized disclosure of which reasonably could be expected to cause damage to the national security. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:21:05 PM EDT
[#6]
I have never seen Confidential stuff.
It is pretty much unused. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:23:57 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's rather flippant. I hope you don't handle classified material as a part of your job. lol |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:24:15 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Classified information should be secured in SCIFs. Presidents get to do special things as the OG OCA. It’s all just political theatre with those 2 anyway. This. The issue with Trump was that he was no longer the OCA for the alleged materials. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:25:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do share the link to the source documents that support your statement. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: VPOTUS is viewed as a coequal to POTUS in this regard, and as is noted on the ruling on presidential records act is called out as not be covered by legislatively created laws in regard to handling and storage of classified materials. So not quite as settled and on point when compared to the POTUS but probably overall a nothing burger. Do share the link to the source documents that support your statement. Clinton V Judicial watch the judge found “ [t]he PRA incorporates an assumption made by Congress (in 1978) that subsequent Presidents and Vice Presidents would comply with the Act in good faith, and therefore Congress limited the scope of judicial review and provided little oversight authority for the President and Vice President's document “ And national archives under classification authority list the following: Sec. 1.3. Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by: (1) the President and, in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:27:28 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: This. The issue with Trump was that he was no longer the OCA for the alleged materials. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Classified information should be secured in SCIFs. Presidents get to do special things as the OG OCA. It’s all just political theatre with those 2 anyway. This. The issue with Trump was that he was no longer the OCA for the alleged materials. He says he declassified them BEFORE leaving office. Trump was the OCA for ALL documents and information. Biden would never have been able to do this, UNLESS Biden was the OCA of those particular documents (doubtful). |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:29:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: He says he declassified them BEFORE leaving office. Trump was the OCA for ALL documents and information. Biden would never have been able to do this, UNLESS Biden was the OCA of those particular documents (doubtful). Not going to pick nits on this, that's why I specified "alleged". I didn't realize we were discussing alleged documents that Biden had as VP. Yes, those would not be declassified unless Obama did it for him before he took them. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:30:56 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And national archives under classification authority list the following: Sec. 1.3. Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by: (1) the President and, in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; Exactly. The President has that authority, period. The Vice President has that authority ONLY "in the performance of executive duties." Taking stuff with you after you leave office is not covered by that, and even then, it would only pertain to info/docs for which he was the OCA. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:31:30 PM EDT
[#13]
So how did Biden have classified materials from when he was VP out in a room in a building that wasn't opened until 2018?
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:35:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So how did Biden have classified materials from when he was VP out in a room in a building that wasn't opened until 2018? The points don’t count and the rules are made up. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:36:29 PM EDT
[#15]
The difference is the fbi has broke to many laws trying to frame Trump and has protected chief potato. If the fbi says they found documents at Trumps house it's because it was planted until otherwise proven.
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:45:54 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I do not really think we should be talking about our procedures for handling classified material on the internet. You can literally download our procedures for handling classified material from the internet. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:49:09 PM EDT
[#17]
There will be no ramifications for classified material breech of protocol for anybody associated with the democrats.
When I used to be an MSG, and I was on mids, I dug through everybody's stuff looking for any type of classified material. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:51:21 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There will be no ramifications for classified material breech of protocol for anybody associated with the democrats. When I used to be an MSG, and I was on mids, I dug through everybody's stuff looking for any type of classified material. Speaking of security violations... |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:53:04 PM EDT
[#19]
There's a difference between "classified" material in the hands of the president and anyone else. He has the legal power to declassify literally anything. Therefore if any seemingly classified info is found to be in his possession after leaving office, he can rightly say "I declassified that".
A vice president has no such legal power and if Pedo Joe was leaving SCI TS shit laying around as VP he should be persecuted, I mean prosecuted. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:53:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There will be no ramifications for classified material breech of protocol for anybody associated with the democrats. When I used to be an MSG, and I was on mids, I dug through everybody's stuff looking for any type of classified material. lol |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:53:39 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In over 20 years of having a clearance I don't think I've ever even seen anything at Confidential level either. I know it's out there, somewhere. Just seems like CUI picks most of the slack then jumps to Secret. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not all classified info must be stored in a SCIF. Confidential and secret may be stored in an appropriate storage container (safe) outside of a SCIF. Meh. If it's only confidential or secret, it's hardly classified anyway. Not all that rare with category D stuff. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 3:59:12 PM EDT
[#22]
I am amazed at the number of people here, that think classified material can only be stored in a SCIF. Between 1991 and 2017 I had a TS clearance and routinely stored confidential and secret documents in a GSA approved container (safe chained to a huge eyebolt in the floor) in my office.
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:10:55 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am amazed at the number of people here, that think classified material can only be stored in a SCIF. Between 1991 and 2017 I had a TS clearance and routinely stored confidential and secret documents in a GSA approved container (safe chained to a huge eyebolt in the floor) in my office. I think it generally amounts to accessibility. If I knew classified docs were in a closed safe, but I couldn't find the key or combo...it was secure. If I found a combo, and I opened the safe....it wasn't secure. That generally resulted in a written reprimand. I can't remember exactly how many reprimands a state dept person needed before they got into trouble (sliding scale on classification level). If I found TS, the RSO was called in. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:16:14 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it generally amounts to accessibility. If I knew classified docs were in a closed safe, but I couldn't find the key or combo...it was secure. If I found a combo, and I opened the safe....it wasn't secure. That generally resulted in a written reprimand. I can't remember exactly how many reprimands a state dept person needed before they got into trouble (sliding scale on classification level). If I found TS, the RSO was called in. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I am amazed at the number of people here, that think classified material can only be stored in a SCIF. Between 1991 and 2017 I had a TS clearance and routinely stored confidential and secret documents in a GSA approved container (safe chained to a huge eyebolt in the floor) in my office. I think it generally amounts to accessibility. If I knew classified docs were in a closed safe, but I couldn't find the key or combo...it was secure. If I found a combo, and I opened the safe....it wasn't secure. That generally resulted in a written reprimand. I can't remember exactly how many reprimands a state dept person needed before they got into trouble (sliding scale on classification level). If I found TS, the RSO was called in. Who in the blue fuck authorized you to go snooping around for combos and then attempt to breach security containers that you were not authorized to access? |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:16:53 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryJust take a magazine |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:20:51 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who in the blue fuck authorized you to go snooping around for combos and then attempt to breach security containers that you were not authorized to access? It was part of my job. I used to be an MSG. Better I found any improperly secured materials than a foreign national. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:21:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who in the blue fuck authorized you to go snooping around for combos and then attempt to breach security containers that you were not authorized to access? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am amazed at the number of people here, that think classified material can only be stored in a SCIF. Between 1991 and 2017 I had a TS clearance and routinely stored confidential and secret documents in a GSA approved container (safe chained to a huge eyebolt in the floor) in my office. I think it generally amounts to accessibility. If I knew classified docs were in a closed safe, but I couldn't find the key or combo...it was secure. If I found a combo, and I opened the safe....it wasn't secure. That generally resulted in a written reprimand. I can't remember exactly how many reprimands a state dept person needed before they got into trouble (sliding scale on classification level). If I found TS, the RSO was called in. Who in the blue fuck authorized you to go snooping around for combos and then attempt to breach security containers that you were not authorized to access? It is literally one of MSG’s primary missions. External security and internal security. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:27:23 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think it generally amounts to accessibility. If I knew classified docs were in a closed safe, but I couldn't find the key or combo...it was secure. If I found a combo, and I opened the safe....it wasn't secure. That generally resulted in a written reprimand. I can't remember exactly how many reprimands a state dept person needed before they got into trouble (sliding scale on classification level). If I found TS, the RSO was called in. Huh, maybe not. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:29:23 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The fact that classified material, specifically SECRET and above is so controlled is what makes the things Klinton (and maybe Trump and now Biden) did with classified material so unfathomable to anyone who knows how “the system” is supposed to work. Yes, classified is stored in a “library”; as others have said, called a SCIF. Every SCIF I have been in had: 1. You had to be cleared/authorized to enter. 2. Custodian monitoring who went in/out. 3. Couldn’t take any other material (writing, recording, cell phone, etc.) with you; those were stored in a container outside. 4. No such materials (writing, recording, etc.) in the SCIF, either. 5. One had to be under Courier Orders (i.e. specific authorization to take classified out of the SCIF). 6. Designated “containers”/carriers for transporting classified. 7. Material removed had to be specifically logged in/out by type, format, etc. So when one hears about Klinton sending or having someone send classified to the fax machine (or printer, whatever) in her home, or her not understanding that the little letters in parens on every line in a document is that line’s classification or them removing the classification banners from classified material and sending it around…it’s unfathomable.@Moof1 It can be stored there, but it doesn't have to be. #5, courier "orders." We got courier cards (I think they were good for a year, but I don't remember how long they were valid for), which specified what kind of media, classification you could carry and a very specific geographic area that it could be carried in. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:30:53 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In over 20 years of having a clearance I don't think I've ever even seen anything at Confidential level either. I know it's out there, somewhere. Just seems like CUI picks most of the slack then jumps to Secret. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not all classified info must be stored in a SCIF. Confidential and secret may be stored in an appropriate storage container (safe) outside of a SCIF. Meh. If it's only confidential or secret, it's hardly classified anyway. I remember dealing with some Confidential material long ago, back when a contractor was authorized to issue that clearance, but I cannot recall the last time I saw anything classified at a level lower then Secret. Heck, I've dealt with treaty stuff that was intended to be given to potential adversaries and even that was "Secret Rel Russia." That caveat always got a double take when someone first saw it. I don't doubt that there is some out there, but it must be pretty trivial. As noted, even Secret is pretty minor stuff. Excuse me, I mean not exceptionally grave.  But yeah, if it's not SCI, it's probably not critical.And on a related note, this piece of shit just got out of prison last week: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Montes |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:32:49 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I remember dealing with some Confidential material long ago, back when a contractor was authorized to issue that clearance, but I cannot recall the last time I saw anything classified at a level lower then Secret. Heck, I've dealt with treaty stuff that was intended to be given to potential adversaries and even that was "Secret Rel Russia." That caveat always got a double take when someone first saw it. I don't doubt that there is some out there, but it must be pretty trivial. As noted, even Secret is pretty minor stuff. Excuse me, I mean not exceptionally grave. But yeah, if it's not SCI, it's probably not critical.And on a related note, this piece of shit just got out of prison last week: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Montes Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Not all classified info must be stored in a SCIF. Confidential and secret may be stored in an appropriate storage container (safe) outside of a SCIF. Meh. If it's only confidential or secret, it's hardly classified anyway. I remember dealing with some Confidential material long ago, back when a contractor was authorized to issue that clearance, but I cannot recall the last time I saw anything classified at a level lower then Secret. Heck, I've dealt with treaty stuff that was intended to be given to potential adversaries and even that was "Secret Rel Russia." That caveat always got a double take when someone first saw it. I don't doubt that there is some out there, but it must be pretty trivial. As noted, even Secret is pretty minor stuff. Excuse me, I mean not exceptionally grave. But yeah, if it's not SCI, it's probably not critical.And on a related note, this piece of shit just got out of prison last week: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ana_Montes  |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:34:37 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You can literally download our procedures for handling classified material from the internet. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I do not really think we should be talking about our procedures for handling classified material on the internet. You can literally download our procedures for handling classified material from the internet. And many of us are forced to watch annual training videos on the same subject on unlass systems. Year after brain numbing year.  |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:38:52 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryDammit. You just triggered my annual security awareness PTSD.  Now I'll need to watch it again so I know what to do when I am down the street at the local bagel shop and Mary asks about my codeword project...and if she can borrow my password/CAC/PIV. How am I supposed to remember such complex stuff?! 
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:39:32 PM EDT
[#34]
Rules for THEE but not for ME!
Two different judicial systems! Big club we are not in it! TDS! Orange Man Bad but Pedo Joe good! No billion until you stop investigating my son Hunter! 10% for the Big Guy! If it were 40 years ago, WE WOULD HAVE BEEN HANGING FOLKS FROM THE TREES IN Washington D.C.! |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:45:54 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hopefully you've got a shelf for all your //REL TO xxx staplers too! It’s just above the //SIOP shelf. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:48:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is done, but it is illegal to do so. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: and that brings up the issue of "over-classification." things getting stamped secret or classified just because someone wants to limit access to the info, not because it's actually sensitive It is done, but it is illegal to do so. There are numerous policies against doing this. Furthermore, most cleared personnel only have derivative classification authority, not original, so they need to source the claim. Additionally, the latest Federal policy is when in doubt of the level, classify at the lower level. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:51:27 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Dammit. You just triggered my annual security awareness PTSD. Now I'll need to watch it again so I know what to do when I am down the street at the local bagel shop and Mary asks about my codeword project...and if she can borrow my password/CAC/PIV. How am I supposed to remember such complex stuff?! Quote HistoryQuoted: Dammit. You just triggered my annual security awareness PTSD. Now I'll need to watch it again so I know what to do when I am down the street at the local bagel shop and Mary asks about my codeword project...and if she can borrow my password/CAC/PIV. How am I supposed to remember such complex stuff?!   |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:52:51 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Huh, maybe not. I have no reason to BS you |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 4:56:07 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's a difference between "classified" material in the hands of the president and anyone else. He has the legal power to declassify literally anything. Therefore if any seemingly classified info is found to be in his possession after leaving office, he can rightly say "I declassified that". A vice president has no such legal power and if Pedo Joe was leaving SCI TS shit laying around as VP he should be persecuted, I mean prosecuted. 100% If Trump's house got raided so should Biden's. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:02:59 PM EDT
[#40]
Every year that fucker in the lunchroom steals my cellphone, and EVERY year I chase him down and beat his ass, and EVERY year I am told that I shouldn't do that, and should just report the incident...
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:09:20 PM EDT
[#41]
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:16:47 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryGood lord that looks awful. I'm glad I missed out on that. It might be decent if they did a mash-up with Doom or Castle Wolfenstein |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:21:51 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good lord that looks awful. I'm glad I missed out on that. It might be decent if they did a mash-up with Doom or Castle Wolfenstein Quote HistoryQuoted: Good lord that looks awful. I'm glad I missed out on that. It might be decent if they did a mash-up with Doom or Castle Wolfenstein  |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 5:38:44 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every year that fucker in the lunchroom steals my cellphone, and EVERY year I chase him down and beat his ass, and EVERY year I am told that I shouldn't do that, and should just report the incident... It's the Cafe. And he's definitely Russian or at least some Warsaw Pact Slav. Kharn |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:03:12 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am amazed at the number of people here, that think classified material can only be stored in a SCIF. Between 1991 and 2017 I had a TS clearance and routinely stored confidential and secret documents in a GSA approved container (safe chained to a huge eyebolt in the floor) in my office. It's not your clearance level, it's the material. If it's TS/SCI, it must be stored in a SCIF and there are pretty strict protocol for transporting. There are "mobile SCIFs", but that's pretty limited. Your clearance doesn't mean shit. It's your access and the programs you're read onto... ROCK6 |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:35:47 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every year that fucker in the lunchroom steals my cellphone, and EVERY year I chase him down and beat his ass, and EVERY year I am told that I shouldn't do that, and should just report the incident... That was one trophy I was happy to never win. I miss that class, not liking the time traveler dude, keep wanting to report the whole thing as fishing. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:44:55 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is literally one of MSG’s primary missions. External security and internal security. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: I am amazed at the number of people here, that think classified material can only be stored in a SCIF. Between 1991 and 2017 I had a TS clearance and routinely stored confidential and secret documents in a GSA approved container (safe chained to a huge eyebolt in the floor) in my office. I think it generally amounts to accessibility. If I knew classified docs were in a closed safe, but I couldn't find the key or combo...it was secure. If I found a combo, and I opened the safe....it wasn't secure. That generally resulted in a written reprimand. I can't remember exactly how many reprimands a state dept person needed before they got into trouble (sliding scale on classification level). If I found TS, the RSO was called in. Who in the blue fuck authorized you to go snooping around for combos and then attempt to breach security containers that you were not authorized to access? It is literally one of MSG’s primary missions. External security and internal security. Their mission is not to emulate insider threats and go poking through security containers to which they have not been granted access. Find a combo, properly secure a combo, report to appropriate security authorities. Find a document, properly secure a document, report to appropriate security authorities. If reporting procedures require that someone else be called in to secure a document, then maintain positive control until that person arrives. Take off your cape and put the underwear back inside the pants where they belong. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 6:53:07 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Exactly. The President has that authority, period. The Vice President has that authority ONLY "in the performance of executive duties." Taking stuff with you after you leave office is not covered by that, and even then, it would only pertain to info/docs for which he was the OCA. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: And national archives under classification authority list the following: Sec. 1.3. Classification Authority. (a) The authority to classify information originally may be exercised only by: (1) the President and, in the performance of executive duties, the Vice President; Exactly. The President has that authority, period. The Vice President has that authority ONLY "in the performance of executive duties." Taking stuff with you after you leave office is not covered by that, and even then, it would only pertain to info/docs for which he was the OCA. Basically the office of VPOTUS exists in 2 worlds as part of both the executive branch and the legislative. While the VPOTUS presides over the senate, VPOTUS is performing his legislative duties and is not an OCA, but as a constitutional office under Art 2 also perform executive duties. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 7:47:40 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Their mission is not to emulate insider threats and go poking through security containers to which they have not been granted access. Find a combo, properly secure a combo, report to appropriate security authorities. Find a document, properly secure a document, report to appropriate security authorities. If reporting procedures require that someone else be called in to secure a document, then maintain positive control until that person arrives. Take off your cape and put the underwear back inside the pants where they belong. You have to dig through whatever contents to see what's there. If no classified materials are there, it's no issue. If you find classified documents, then yes the procedure is pretty much like you explained. If I found a combo to a safe, I'd look for the highest order of classified document I could find and write that up. That's what we were supposed to do. |
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Posted: 1/11/2023 7:58:59 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have to dig through whatever contents to see what's there. If no classified materials are there, it's no issue. If you find classified documents, then yes the procedure is pretty much like you explained. If I found a combo to a safe, I'd look for the highest order of classified document I could find and write that up. That's what we were supposed to do. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Their mission is not to emulate insider threats and go poking through security containers to which they have not been granted access. Find a combo, properly secure a combo, report to appropriate security authorities. Find a document, properly secure a document, report to appropriate security authorities. If reporting procedures require that someone else be called in to secure a document, then maintain positive control until that person arrives. Take off your cape and put the underwear back inside the pants where they belong. You have to dig through whatever contents to see what's there. If no classified materials are there, it's no issue. If you find classified documents, then yes the procedure is pretty much like you explained. If I found a combo to a safe, I'd look for the highest order of classified document I could find and write that up. That's what we were supposed to do. Point to the relevant paragraph in 5200.01. |
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