Quoted: Quoted: OOOH so I get it.... We can eat of everything in the Garden.... Ok now show me where it says we can't eat of everything outside the Garden.... By using your logic we really shouldn't be doing that communion stuff because Jesus was talking only to his 12 deciples...... A massive power and network outage onsite killed my full response to this. In summary, however, basically you did the exact same thing you have always done with scripture, taking it out of context and using it as support for an arguement the Bible does not make. The Bible clearly says drunkenness is a sin. It was a sin when Noah got drunk, it was a sin for the priests to touch fermented wine when serving in the temple, and the New Testament says repeatedly that drunkenness is a sin. Eating a mushroom is not the sin, otherwise everyone who ate portabella mushrooms would be in trouble. Eathing psychadelic mushrooms to get high IS a sin. It is as simple as that. If you approached the Bible AS A WHOLE rather than trying to cut the text until it bleeds, and instead viewed every verse according to the SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY OF THE BIBLE, then you wouldn't have so many inane questions. That, of course, would ruin all your fun, and clearly demonstrate your gnostic heresies to be what they are. So until you have humility enough to toss aside those silly ideas and embrace the true Christ and His word, anything I could say to you is wasted. If you truly believe that we can take from "every tree", then try some hemlock. Then you really WILL see God.

Wow. It only took six pages for this word to come crawling out the woodwork, so to speak.

eh. There's worse things to be than a heretic. I think I'm just going to get a t-shirt.

You're losing your cool if you're suggesting that a person ingest a known lethal poison. Of course, I'm not going to take your statement literally. I know you were speaking figuratively. You're still losing your cool, though.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quoted:
Let me get this straight. You delved into sorcery(pharmakos) and found GOD?

More likely deceived. Satan came to Eve wrapped in the guise of the most beautiful creature of the garden, the serpent, not as a warthog.

wganz


what an up tight, closed minded F***tard.

sorcery ?????
it was a fruit made by God(s). Other then that your train of thought seems on track.


*******************************

posted by John_Wayne777:

You are out of your mind.

Nobody in the Bible had an encounter with God because they were high.

Stop using drugs and start repenting and seeking God's face according to His word. THEN you will find Him.

Now all you have found is hallucination.

same mind set at work here.....

news flash ole holy self-rightous one--- Jesus was a drug user
what do you think alcohol is?????



posted by John_Wayne777:.....

I have already adressed your silly "gotcha" question with Jesus' own words,

He has you on speed- dial huh?????





posted by mcnielsen:
My ancestors, the Vikings, used mushies and other drugs to go into BERSERKER RAGE when entering combat.

maybe, maybe not. But the would have most likely been the amanita muscaria  variety- I don't think cubies grow in Scandinavia.


Many people feel that mushrooms may have been THE source for divine inspiration in our distant past.

I think most users now days would be more likely to see the hypocricy in modern 'religion'
Saying one thing on Sunday---
(There are two popular beliefs about the origin of the English word: "Sunday."
It is derived from the name of the Scandinavian sun Goddess Sunna (a.k.a. Sunne, Frau Sonne). 5,6
It is derived from "Sol," the Roman God of the Sun." Their phrase "Dies Solis" means "day of the Sun." The Christian saint Jerome (d. 420) commented "If it is called the day of the sun by the pagans. we willingly accept this name, for on this day the Light of the world arose, on this day the Sun of Justice shone forth." )

but act differently all week.

Bullshit 'ministries' built around huge congregations where the pastor doesn't even know your name..

huge 'mega-churches'

"non- denominational" what kinda bullshit is that?? can't even pick a belief system to follow???

Internation TV broadcast begging for money....

Quoted: Unfortunately for the visiting team, which is you, my dear man, the coach is coming out to inform me that due to your inexplicable inablility to correctly use Board Code, the umpire is declaring a forfeit, and the home teams wins! Shape up son! I'm almost certain that you will be called back from some farm team to the majors, one day! And that is 'Southern-speak' for 'I really don't think that's going to happen!' Eric The(MostValuablePlayerInThisSeries Getting owned)Hun

Most Valuable player eh? I thought you would say that Jesus was your MVP..... Its amazing what I learn here in the GD....

btw... My board code is fine.... as are your lack of answers


And your forfiet thingy.... that was sarcasm not "southern-speak" are you REALLY a southerner?

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: OOOH so I get it.... We can eat of everything in the Garden.... Ok now show me where it says we can't eat of everything outside the Garden.... By using your logic we really shouldn't be doing that communion stuff because Jesus was talking only to his 12 deciples...... A massive power and network outage onsite killed my full response to this. In summary, however, basically you did the exact same thing you have always done with scripture, taking it out of context and using it as support for an arguement the Bible does not make. The Bible clearly says drunkenness is a sin. It was a sin when Noah got drunk, it was a sin for the priests to touch fermented wine when serving in the temple, and the New Testament says repeatedly that drunkenness is a sin. Eating a mushroom is not the sin, otherwise everyone who ate portabella mushrooms would be in trouble. Eathing psychadelic mushrooms to get high IS a sin. It is as simple as that. If you approached the Bible AS A WHOLE rather than trying to cut the text until it bleeds, and instead viewed every verse according to the SYSTEMATIC THEOLOGY OF THE BIBLE, then you wouldn't have so many inane questions. That, of course, would ruin all your fun, and clearly demonstrate your gnostic heresies to be what they are. So until you have humility enough to toss aside those silly ideas and embrace the true Christ and His word, anything I could say to you is wasted. If you truly believe that we can take from "every tree", then try some hemlock. Then you really WILL see God. Wow. It only took six pages for this word to come crawling out the woodwork, so to speak. eh. There's worse things to be than a heretic. I think I'm just going to get a t-shirt. You're losing your cool if you're suggesting that a person ingest a known lethal poison. Of course, I'm not going to take your statement literally. I know you were speaking figuratively. You're still losing your cool, though.

Its alright Hydgirl, Well its all right according to Mark anyways.......



Mark 16:18(King James Version)
  18They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover.





I mean after all it is the LITERAL word of God........

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Unfortunately for the visiting team, which is you, my dear man, the coach is coming out to inform me that due to your inexplicable inablility to correctly use Board Code, the umpire is declaring a forfeit, and the home teams wins! Shape up son! I'm almost certain that you will be called back from some farm team to the majors, one day! And that is 'Southern-speak' for 'I really don't think that's going to happen!' Eric The(MostValuablePlayerInThisSeries Getting owned)Hun Most Valuable player eh? I thought you would say that Jesus was your MVP..... Its amazing what I learn here in the GD.... btw... My board code is fine.... as are your lack of answers And your forfiet thingy.... that was sarcasm not "southern-speak" are you REALLY a southerner? Man, alive, I would think you'd give up posting if you can't handle Board Code! Please reform your post, and I'll knock it out of the park! Again. And again. Eric The('Owned'BySomeoneBetterThanYouSirOwned by Doctrine and Dogma)Hun

**Yawn**


You lost on facts so now you attack my board code? Please...... your a funny guy....



BTW I see you edited your post too... Now wouldn't that have been embarrassing!

Please, Eric, don't walk out in front of any trucks on my account. Its quite unneccesarry, honestly.

You have seemed to have lost all composure now that you are ingoring certain tell tale points, attacking my code, and grammar and hinting once again that those who see differently than you are "stupid".... What next are you going to call me Beazelbub himself!  I suggest you stop this tom foolery now, its very unbecoming of a man of your stature.....

It sucks that if you have to get fucked up to find God, maybe he isn't there- or at least not home at the moment.

<---chiming in on page 7....

Quoted: Please, Eric, don't walk out in front of any trucks on my account. Its quite unneccesarry, honestly. You have seemed to have lost all composure now that you are ingoring certain tell tale points, attacking my code, and grammar and hinting once again that those who see differently than you are "stupid".... What next are you going to call me Beazelbub himself!  I suggest you stop this tom foolery now, its very unbecoming of a man of your stature.....

You, sir, misspelled your boss's name.


It's Beelzebub.

Mercy, if I was an unsaved person contemplating Christianity the responses to this thread would turn me off in a hurry.
God be with us all.

Quoted: If you are going to run with the big dogs, then by all means do so, but if not stay on the porch with the pooches!

Visions of granduer? This has nothing to do with anything other than you trying to convince me your a **cough cough** Big Dog?

How transparant your insecurity!

You've attempted to take this discussion wide and far. OK, so be it. I would love to respond to your posts above, but I refuse to do your work for you.

It was not I who took it far and wide.... I posted ON TOPIC until some of the zealots started in on all of this..... Go ahead show me where I instigated taking this topic "far and wide".

Yet, I see that you have not corrected those posts, yet, which leads me to believe that you don't sincerely wish me to answer them. Oh, and where's that thread on the '101 Contradictions in the New Testament' you should have posted by now??!! Reform your posts, son, and see if I don't respond. Eric The(Really,ReallyBigDog)Hun

Wait, So are you not responding to my posts because they are off topic or are you not responding to them because of my formating? Which is it? Usually when one is either being untruthful or evasive they will offer up more than one seemingly unrelated reasons for not doing something even when either one of those excuses would have sufficed if they were offered by itself.... I think you would have learned that in all that lawyering you do.  I learnt me that in poker.....


There are wise and there are otherwise, brother.


But keep telling yourself your a "big dog". I am sure that will be comforting even though your avoiding a real conversation and instead attacking my person....  Perhaps if your good someone will take you for a walk later!


Your a legend in your own mind, "Big Dog"!


Edit to add...


With that I bid you gentlemen goodday as I have a Hockey game tonight and my day is done here.......

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: If you are going to run with the big dogs, then by all means do so, but if not stay on the porch with the pooches! Visions of granduer? Nope. No visions of 'grandeur.' photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=3502&iGalleryUnq=162&iImageUnq=28957 Originally posted by Eric The Hun: You've attempted to take this discussion wide and far. OK, so be it. I would love to respond to your posts above, but I refuse to do your work for you. It was not I who took it far and wide.... I posted ON TOPIC until some of the zealots started in on all of this..... Go ahead show me where I instigated taking this topic "far and wide". Yes, you did. Trying to introduce '101 Limp-Azzed Contradictions in the New Testament' into this discussion is trying to take it far and wide! Originally posted by Eric The Hun: Yet, I see that you have not corrected those posts, yet, which leads me to believe that you don't sincerely wish me to answer them. Oh, and where's that thread on the '101 Contradictions in the New Testament' you should have posted by now??!! Reform your posts, son, and see if I don't respond. Eric The(Really,ReallyBigDog)Hun Wait, So are you not responding to my posts because they are off topic or are you not responding to them because of my formating? Which is it? I was responding to your off-topic subjects for a while, until you started basing your entire post on such other topics. And regarding the formatting, as YOU should surely know, it is difficult to deal with answering another's reply, and impossible when that reply is NOT formatted correctly. It requires that you, first, correctly format the reply, then answer it. I won't do your work for you! Unless you wish to pay me an hourly rate for such work, and even then I have better things to do! Usually when one is either being untruthful or evasive they will offer up more than one seemingly unrelated reasons for not doing something even when either one of those excuses would have sufficed if they were offered by themself.... I think you would have learned that in all that lawyering you do.  I learnt me that in poker..... Then you are likely as lousy in playing poker as you are in Biblical discussions. Reform your posts and see whether this is a bluff, or not! I'm calling your hand NOW! But keep telling yourself your a "big dog". I am sure that will be comforting even though your avoiding a real conversation and instead attacking my person.... Call me on it, Amarillo Slim ! Just call me on it! Perhaps if your good someone will take you for a walk later! If I am taken for a walk later, the young lady accompanying me will be an Angel, I can assure you of that! She says I'm very, very good, but she's an Angel, so she may be just trying to make me feel better! Your a legend in your own mind, "Big Dog"! And in the minds of a few select others..... Edit to add... Yeah, this ought to be rich! With that I bid you gentlemen goodday as I have a Hockey game tonight and my day is done here....... Well, poker fans, the 'Amarillo Slim' of ARFCOM has just folded his cards onto the table and is walking away shaking his head and muttering something about a big dog, a porch, and a pooch! Come back when you have a full deck! Eric The(RakingTheChipsFromTheTableIntoHisTenGallonHat)Hun

ETH, why do you think I specifically requested your opinion on this in my 1st post? Because I knew you'd understand!
If you're ever in Jawja I sure would like to take you to Church, eat at Buckner's Family Resturant and go burn some ammo. I've kept quiet about this but I think we were separated at birth!

Quoted: Quoted: Maybe if you left the church of the Divine Cut and Paste . Chris

See? I have a sense of humor.

Quoted: news flash ole holy self-rightous one--- Jesus was a drug user what do you think alcohol is?????

As I stated before, the idea that Jesus ever drank alcohol is hardly proven fact.

So no, Jesus was NOT a drug user. He certainly didn't trip on shrooms, or pass out joints and tell people to toke out and turn on.

He has you on speed- dial huh?????

No, I happen to have His teachings and words conveniently stored in this cool book called the Bible. It is amazing! You can look up all SORTS of stuff.

You should try it sometime.

Damn I missed 7 pages, ohh well heres to the next 10

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Maybe if you left the church of the Divine Cut and Paste . Chris See? I have a sense of humor.

yeah, it was pretty funny.


Chris

Quoted: what an up tight, closed minded F***tard.

thank you, that was best compliment I've had all day, and besides, it is Mr. F***tard to you sonny

Quoted: sorcery ????? it was a fruit made by God.

fixed the heresy of your ways.
yep, sorcery. The practice of mis-using drugs is the transliteration of the Greek. The mis-use of what was given to man by God. Morphine is from a plant given to man by God. It has definite uses in medicine for pain relief and vasodilation. Not something to be an additive to six packs of beer.

Quoted: news flash ole holy self-rightous one--- Jesus was a drug user what do you think alcohol is?????

not according to the definitions in the Bible it isn't, you've let the do-gooders blind you with the PC speech. Probably bought into the stupidity that he was a total pacificist also. He made an improvised weapon when he needed one(made a whip for the money changers) and told his disciples to sell their coats to buy swords. Told everyone to do good & be on their best behavior when He gets back, because He'll come back with an attitude & an ass whooping with everybody that didn't listen the first go round.

Quoted: I think most users now days would be more likely to see the hypocricy in modern 'religion'

The irrefutable facts are that the Jews have returned to Israel, they possess Jerusaleum, and they are ready to rebuild their temple. Germany is reunited and there is a European Union that mirrors the Roman Empire. A third of the African population is HIV+ and is ripe for a plaque to kill a third of the population. There are wars and rumors of wars(guerrilla & terrorist actions).

HE is coming back soon. This time HE said HE would be riding a stallion as THE King and not a mule as a servent. HE promised that his clothes would be splattered with the blood of the soldiers HE kills when HE comes back. HE promised that HE would slay them in HIS anger.

Your life, your choice, your eternity. Choose well.

wganz
¶

[stands here shaking]  

Chris

Mushrooms and Acid is what led me away from monotheistic religions (and all religions at that).  I indeed explored the questions that have perplexed mankind from the beginning and found that it is me alone that dictates my life.  Religion is a scapegoat for the people who can't accept the responsibility of life on their own. Were the dinosaurs Christian?  Why are there so many religions?  If Christianity was the "truth" then whey aren't all people inherently Christian?  I'll tell you what, if Jesus came to earth and said, look, the earth is not flat, the earth is not the center of the universe, and explained the laws of physics...I might have some faith in him.  Once you understand that religion is all man-made, the truth will indeed set you free.  Being institutionalized is not for me; of coarse being educated also helps.

If anybody wants to inquire more deeply into philosophy, let me know.

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: My college girlfriend and I found that sex while shrooming was a near religious for both of us... Does that count? you've done shrooms huh, officer? Sure. Broke a bunch of other laws as well. Very lucky I never got into trouble and lost opportunities. Also lucky that I was able to just put the childish things away and never go back. I enjoyed my misspent youth and am a better officer for it.You?

+1 I agree

Quoted: Mercy, if I was an unsaved person contemplating Christianity the responses to this thread would turn me off in a hurry. God be with us all.

We have a winner! ! ! ! ! ! !

Chris

Saved?...

Thank god for Constantine and the inquisitions for perpetuating dogma through violence...

Lame.

Who knew that a common ornamental cactus (san pedro and perucian torch) are both legal and contain mescaline?

Quoted: Wow. It only took six pages for this word to come crawling out the woodwork, so to speak. eh. There's worse things to be than a heretic. I think I'm just going to get a t-shirt. You're losing your cool if you're suggesting that a person ingest a known lethal poison. Of course, I'm not going to take your statement literally. I know you were speaking figuratively. You're still losing your cool, though.

'Twas a joke.

And I wasn't loosing my cool. I was cool like Abdul, you know what I'm sayin?

WEST SIDE!!



Back to our normally scheduled thread....

Quoted: Nope. No visions of 'grandeur.' photos.ar15.com/WS_Content/ImageGallery/Attachments/DownloadAttach.asp?sAccountUnq=3502&iGalleryUnq=162&iImageUnq=28957

Ahh your right its Delusions of Granduer..

Originally posted by Eric The Hun: Yes, you did. Trying to introduce '101 Limp-Azzed Contradictions in the New Testament' into this discussion is trying to take it far and wide!

I asked you to show me where... You haven't, you failed. As for the contradictions it was only to demonstrate that the GoT was no different than the rest of the mythology.

Originally posted by Eric The Hun: I was responding to your off-topic subjects for a while, until you started basing your entire post on such other topics.

More like you don't have as many answers as you think you do so you turn to attacking the poster to divert the attention from your lack of knowledge....

I won't do your work for you! Unless you wish to pay me an hourly rate for such work, and even then I have better things to do!

Hah..... better things to do? hourly rate? You? Thats rich....

Usually when one is either being untruthful or evasive they will offer up more than one seemingly unrelated reasons for not doing something even when either one of those excuses would have sufficed if they were offered by themself.... I think you would have learned that in all that lawyering you do.  I learnt me that in poker..... Then you are likely as lousy in playing poker as you are in Biblical discussions. Reform your posts and see whether this is a bluff, or not! I'm calling your hand NOW!

**yawn** your childish need to control others would be laughable if it wasn't so transparent. I requoted myself to show you once again that you missed the main point of this and attempted (yet again) and failed (yet again) to avoid your obvious deficiencies....

Call me on it, Amarillo Slim ! Just call me on it!

**yawn**

All the information is there.... If you wish to discuss it by all means.... If you wish to use this formating excuse to duck my points I would not want to take out your safe exit.....

If I am taken for a walk later, the young lady accompanying me will be an Angel, I can assure you of that! She says I'm very, very good, but she's an Angel, so she may be just trying to make me feel better!

Ahh... ok.....

And in the minds of a few select others.....

Sin of pride.....

Don't flatter yourself, kid...

Well, poker fans, the 'Amarillo Slim' of ARFCOM has just folded his cards onto the table and is walking away shaking his head and muttering something about a big dog, a porch, and a pooch! Come back when you have a full deck! Eric The(The Duck)Hun

Nope, I just have a real life outside of Arfcom and don't need to bicker back and forth ALL night to validate my worth in this world..... however YMMV....

Quoted: Ahhh, don't you wish you had wit? And congratulations on getting that pesky Board Code down right! Why don't you use some of this newly discovered wisdom to go back and remedy some of your posts? Don't want to read my responses? I can't say that I blame you! 'The burned child fears the fire', as we've all heard.

Wit like yours? Please.... In this battle I'm afraid you appear unarmed!


And please this whole trying to make me go back and edit my posts. All the information is there. You apparently are not handicapped. You choose not to answer and your lame excuse is exposed for all to see! BEHOLD THE MIGHTY HUN who cannot address simple points and must attack the format to hide his deficiencies! BTW... Whats with this need to try to dominate others.... Whats with this need to make sure everyone knows that YOU are a big dog, and that you have wit?  Were you picked on as a kid? Chosen last at kickball? Low self esteem? There are people who can help you.....

Originally posted by Eric The Hun: Go fix your posts and just see what I would say! Carbon dating tests on the so-called 'gospel of Thomas'? I think not! Prove me wrong, bucko!

Ahh thats your job. "I think not" proves that you "think not" not that carbon dating tests were not done. If I am wrong I am sure you can prove it with facts and not simple emotion that your so apt to display.

Originally posted by Eric The Hun: Prove it! Reform your posts and I promise to answer each and every point(?) you try to make! If you don't do so, it's simply because you don't want to read my responses. That's all it is. You are skeered!

uh... yeah I am scared.... Your obsession to control is very intruiging..... Its coming off to me almost as a borderline personality disorder. Very interesting.....

Originally posted by Eric The Hun: Yes, very rich.

Ahh more braggadocio. Not very proffessional if you ask me.... Does your material wealth buy you your happiness? It does not seem so....

'Obvious deficiencies' are something that the physicians likely consoled your parents about in the delivery room.

Oh with that infamous wit.... Your a charming old chap aren't you. So clever. Brava Hun, Brava ***Golf clap***

Nope. There is no information there, in any of your replies, at all. Reform your posts, sonny, and watch me show you!

No thank you. If you want to show me something then do it.... (Not being able to control me must be KILLING you!)

OCD?

Originally posted by Eric The Hun I never flatter myself. I've gotten too used to others doing it for me.

You really should cease this detestable compound of rodomontade it is very unbecoming.

Originally posted by Eric The Hun: Spoken like someone who truly doesn't have a life outside ARFCOM! Don't like bickering? That's strange, you argue like someone who bickers constantly.

So now we are resorting to "I know you are but what am I" and you say your my better, HAH!

Your failue to reform your posts into the proper format leaves me to believe that you simply don't wish to disucuss those 'points' you think your posts raise. Since you've already shown yourself prone to 'bickering', it is unlikely that your failure to do so results from anything other than you believe that you've made statements that cannot be successfully defended.

My failure to do your bidding has cost you to lose all composure. My points are made and if you have something to say than say it. But you don't which is why you chose to start attacking me personally as is your modus operendi. It was not I who went down this personal road here it was you my friend.

That's throwing in the towel no matter what sort of alternative interpretation you try to put on it.

Nice try..... Your failure to control me and your personal bickering with me as a method for you to avoid the obvious is apparent.

Your 'worth' in this world, as you put it, is not going to be at issue simply for anything you fail to do here on ARFCOM.

Turn that mirror around to the shiny side my friend!

But your worth as someone whose views that I should pay attention to has certainly taken a nosedive! And that is surely lamentable. Eric The(VeryDisappointed)Hun

You simply won't give up will you? Is this your final tactic to get me to do what you want? I sure hope so. Its a lame tactic that I hope you don't use when your defending a client!  And as if you would consider this heretic as someone you would pay attention to or view of being worthy of the delusioned Hun... Funny though how many pages have you already done so?

Quoted: Quoted: Saved?... Thank god for Constantine and the inquisitions for perpetuating dogma through violence... Lame. Thank God for the Emperor Constantine who brought the violent and bloody persecutions of Christians throughout the Roman Empire to a final end. As far as the Inquisition goes, were I an accused criminal defendant in Spain in 1600 AD, I would much rather have faced the Inquisitors in their Court than be brought before the secular civil Spanish authorities in one of their criminal courts. And if a person knew the history of those days, so would they! Eric The(Historical)Hun

Are you forgetting how Constantine came to power? And yes, he indeed established Christianity as the religion of Rome, thereby ending the persecutions of the then Jewish sect called Christians.  What to you think happened to the people who still held on to their own beliefs? Do you think all the Roman populace instantaneously became Christian based on the teachings of Jesus?  I think not.  The emperor’s wishes were imposed in the same manner as all of Rome's emperors before.

Also, you can add Columbus and all the European missionaries who came and conquered the indigenous peoples of the Americas only to force through violence and death the "word of God" upon them.  That is not "saving" them.

See the problem is that you are looking at everything from an ethnocentric perspective; therefore, you are unknowingly confining yourself to a myopic paradigm.  This is a consequence of your Christian indoctrination, for you cannot (because of absolute blasphemy) even question anything that is contrary to the Bible, thus your thought parameters are fixed.  Moreover, you are equating my disbelief in the institution of religion (Christianity specifically in this case) with a disbelief in a god or some kind of higher power.  During the first period of my philosophical revelation you were correct.  However, as time and many thoughts have passed, I have become comfortable with the fact that the truth is…who the hell knows.  No one does.  Religion attempts to explain the world around us, using God or a god or many gods as the medium for which to receive answers, consequently forming the premise for a provisional faith.  Science does the same thing, though merely employing different methodologies. Furthermore, it is indeed plausible that as our (human) understanding of quantum physics increases, scientists may in fact discover a “scientific God” subsequently ending the lavish debates about religion that our species has been conducting since the origin of culture…but then where is the fun in that!

I can't really knock the inquisition. Cause as bad as they were they kicked a lot, and I mean a lot of Muslim ass!!! If it was'nt for them some of my relatives from Spain would be Muslims and so would I   So I say, Viva la inquisition! viva Sangre pura! Muerto al Moros! Espana Grande!

T-

Most of the people done harm by the Inquisition were CHRISTIANS, namely those whose doctrine or motives were "suspected" by the RC church.

So no, we have no thanks to give for the Inquisition. The only blessing about the Inquisition is that it is now over, thank God....

Quoted: You don't believe in the divine inspiration of scripture. Thus you cannot use them in any sort of theological debate.

so your saying that the only person who can interpret scripture is someone who believes it is the inerrant word of God?  

Hmmm what about the Christians who don't see the bible as inerrant?  They aren't allowed to enter into theological debates?

Quoted: Quoted: You don't believe in the divine inspiration of scripture. Thus you cannot use them in any sort of theological debate. so your saying that the only person who can interpret scripture is someone who believes it is the inerrant word of God?   Hmmm what about the Christians who don't see the bible as inerrant?  They aren't allowed to enter into theological debates?

I'd say they were pretty well excluded by definition. It would be like arguing over Grimm's fairy tales.

Quoted: Quoted: You don't believe in the divine inspiration of scripture. Thus you cannot use them in any sort of theological debate. so your saying that the only person who can interpret scripture is someone who believes it is the inerrant word of God?   Hmmm what about the Christians who don't see the bible as inerrant?  They aren't allowed to enter into theological debates?

admittedly he used to push people he thought less of into lockers in school, it has just stayed with him into adulthood too, which is a damn shame.

Chris

Quoted: Thank God for the Emperor Constantine who brought the violent and bloody persecutions of Christians throughout the Roman Empire to a final end.

Yeah... and the violent and bloody persecutions of everyone else began.

Quoted: Quoted: Lame. Thank God for the Emperor Constantine who brought the violent and bloody persecutions of Christians throughout the Roman Empire to a final end. Yeah... and the violent and bloody persecutions of everyone else began.

A..........men

Chris

Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: You don't believe in the divine inspiration of scripture. Thus you cannot use them in any sort of theological debate. so your saying that the only person who can interpret scripture is someone who believes it is the inerrant word of God?   Hmmm what about the Christians who don't see the bible as inerrant?  They aren't allowed to enter into theological debates? I'd say they were pretty well excluded by definition. It would be like arguing over Grimm's fairy tales.

I'd say just the opposite.  Someone who believes in the innerancy of a work (any work) isn't capable of a rational discussion on the work.  

Noone claims a Tale of Two Cities is inerrant, yet you can find careful analysis of that book and many others.

Biblical Scholarship is an interesting field and many in it do not view it as the word of God.  Are there  opinions any less valid than someone with the same education and experience, but who does believe in the Bible is inerrant?

Quoted: But, as I said before, were I a prisoner in Spain in 1600 AD, I would hope that I stood before the Inquisitors, rather than the secular Spanish authorities IF I were charged with a crime. They actually went by some very liberal procedural rules in their trials, and in how they treated prisoners. Eric The(EvenTheGreatTorquemadaCouldBeReasonedWith)Hun

Any examples of the liberal nature of their rules?

"you have the right to scream silently...."  perhaps?

".... note that there were two Inquisitions, the Papal one (today the Congregation for the doctrine of the faith), and the Spanish one. The former, created in 1233 to combat the heresy of the Albigenses, did indeed torture occasionally but otherwise can be considered, all things being equal, as a "progressive" criminal procedure instrument. The latter, established two and half centuries later, was essentially a political instrument in the hands of Spanish kings, and notoriously much harsher than its papal equivalent."

http://www.murdoch.edu.au/elaw/issues/v5n4/baissus54_text.html

Quoted: admittedly he used to push people he thought less of into lockers in school, it has just stayed with him into adulthood too, which is a damn shame. Chris

Indeed I did bully a few kids in school.

But I was on the receiving end of more bullying than I was ever on the giving end of. And the guys I bullied? They bullied me first. Then during the summer of my 8th grade year, I grew a foot and put on about 50 pounds. Suddenly the kids who pushed me around were looking up at me, and were a lot weaker than I was.

Things were a bit different after that. The other kids they pushed around who were not the prime specimens of the class (like the special ed kids they used to trip and throw food and balls at) got a bit of respite after I got bigger and stronger.

And that was a LOOOOONG time ago. So what relevance does this have to right now? Does it make me less of a Christian to have sin in my past?

Or is it because I am not willing to embrace any idea someone comes up with as right that I am somehow a bully?

I have news for you: Christianity is a faith of absolutes. You want to know the principles I believe?

I believe:

# In the verbal inspiration of the Bible.
# In one God eternally existing in three persons; namely, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost.
# That Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Father, conceived of the Holy Ghost, and born of the Virgin Mary. That Jesus was crucified, buried, and raised from the dead. That He ascended to heaven and is today at the right hand of the Father as the Intercessor.
# That all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and that repentance is commanded of God for all and necessary for forgiveness of sins.
# That justification, regeneration, and the new birth are wrought by faith in the blood of Jesus Christ.
# In sanctification subsequent to the new birth, through faith in the blood of Christ; through the Word, and by the Holy Ghost.
# Holiness to be God's standard of living for His people.
# In the baptism with the Holy Ghost subsequent to a clean heart.
# In speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance and that it is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost.
# In water baptism by immersion, and all who repent should be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost.
# Divine healing is provided for all in the atonement.
# In the Lord's Supper and washing of the saints' feet.
# In the premillennial second coming of Jesus. First, to resurrect the righteous dead and to catch away the living saints to Him in the air. Second, to reign on the earth a thousand years.
# In the bodily resurrection; eternal life for the righteous, and eternal punishment for the wicked.

I believe the testimony of Christ's Apostles and the Holy Spirit above and beyond all else. The Bible , brought about by a divine work of the Holy Spirit, is not a book open to negotiation. Within its own pages it boldly proclaims Divinely revealed Truth to all men who are wise enough to listen. And within the pages of that Blessed Book given to us by an act of God Almighty are CONSTANT warnings against false doctrines, and corruptions of the faith.

I believe in the Christ revealed to me in scripture. He IS Savior, and He IS Lord, and there is no other name under heaven, or given among men whereby we must be saved. He IS the Way, Truth and the Life.

I am charged repeatedly in the Holy Scriptures to "hold fast" my "confession of faith", to "contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints." This is my charge before God, and I take it seriously.

If others wish to disbelieve God's Word, that is their buisness. But it is HARDLY logical to discount the Divine Inspiration of scripture one moment, and then to turn around, grab pieces of it out of context, and then use it to prove a point that the scripture itself does not make. THAT is what I object to, and it is what Tusi has done every time he has quoted the Bible.

My simple suggestion was that for the sake of consistency, perhaps he should stick to quoting from the GOT instead of trying to torture meanings out of Divinely Inspired scripture that aren't there. Taking things out of context the way he has done repeatedly is done either out of ignorance or dishonesty.

The Bible is not a salad bar from which we can take what we like and leave what we don't. It claims within its own pages to be the Word of the Living God. By its own measure, it is to be accepted as a whole, or rejected as a whole. Trying to pick out what most pleases is an utterly rediculous proposition, for if some of the Bible is untrue, then the whole of it is untrue. If any witness of the Gospels about Christ is false, then ALL of it is false, because if any deception is found in the writings of the Word then the whole thing is unreliable.

All I am demanding is that people have the intellectual honesty to accept or reject the Word on its merits, not read into it whatever they like and pervert the message. If they disagree with the message of the Bible, that is their right. They can look to whatever other resources they wish. But to try and use the Divine scripture and twist it to say things that it does NOT say is ignorant or a lie, and there is no excuse for either.

It is as simple as that.

Tusi does not believe in the scripture's accuracy. How, then, can he use them to prove his point? If they are unreliable, then they are unreliable, and any arguement he would make from them is flawed from the getgo. If I believed that the Gospels were not accurate records of Christ's teachings and ministry, how then could I refer to them as proof of my idea of Christ and His teachings?

It is like discounting the validity of a scientific study, and then trying to argue a point based on the data I just criticized as inaccurate. It is a completely illogical stand.

Quoted: Quoted: admittedly he used to push people he thought less of into lockers in school, it has just stayed with him into adulthood too, which is a damn shame. Chris Indeed I did bully a few kids in school. But I was on the receiving end of more bullying than I was ever on the giving end of. And the guys I bullied? They bullied me first. Then during the summer of my 8th grade year, I grew a foot and put on about 50 pounds. Suddenly the kids who pushed me around were looking up at me, and were a lot weaker than I was. Things were a bit different after that. The other kids they pushed around who were not the prime specimens of the class (like the special ed kids they used to trip and throw food and balls at) got a bit of respite after I got bigger and stronger. And that was a LOOOOONG time ago. So what relevance does this have to right now? Does it make me less of a Christian to have sin in my past? Or is it because I am not willing to embrace any idea someone comes up with as right that I am somehow a bully? I have news for you: Christianity is a faith of absolutes. You want to know the principles I believe? I believe: # In the verbal inspiration of the Bible. # In one God eternally existing in three persons; namely, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. # That Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Father, conceived of the Holy Ghost, and born of the Virgin Mary. That Jesus was crucified, buried, and raised from the dead. That He ascended to heaven and is today at the right hand of the Father as the Intercessor. # That all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and that repentance is commanded of God for all and necessary for forgiveness of sins. # That justification, regeneration, and the new birth are wrought by faith in the blood of Jesus Christ. # In sanctification subsequent to the new birth, through faith in the blood of Christ; through the Word, and by the Holy Ghost. # Holiness to be God's standard of living for His people. # In the baptism with the Holy Ghost subsequent to a clean heart. # In speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance and that it is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost. # In water baptism by immersion, and all who repent should be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. # Divine healing is provided for all in the atonement. # In the Lord's Supper and washing of the saints' feet. # In the premillennial second coming of Jesus. First, to resurrect the righteous dead and to catch away the living saints to Him in the air. Second, to reign on the earth a thousand years. # In the bodily resurrection; eternal life for the righteous, and eternal punishment for the wicked. I believe the testimony of Christ's Apostles and the Holy Spirit above and beyond all else. The Bible , brought about by a divine work of the Holy Spirit, is not a book open to negotiation. Within its own pages it boldly proclaims Divinely revealed Truth to all men who are wise enough to listen. And within the pages of that Blessed Book given to us by an act of God Almighty are CONSTANT warnings against false doctrines, and corruptions of the faith. I believe in the Christ revealed to me in scripture. He IS Savior, and He IS Lord, and there is no other name under heaven, or given among men whereby we must be saved. He IS the Way, Truth and the Life. I am charged repeatedly in the Holy Scriptures to "hold fast" my "confession of faith", to "contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints." This is my charge before God, and I take it seriously. If others wish to disbelieve God's Word, that is their buisness. But it is HARDLY logical to discount the Divine Inspiration of scripture one moment, and then to turn around, grab pieces of it out of context, and then use it to prove a point that the scripture itself does not make. THAT is what I object to, and it is what Tusi has done every time he has quoted the Bible. My simple suggestion was that for the sake of consistency, perhaps he should stick to quoting from the GOT instead of trying to torture meanings out of Divinely Inspired scripture that aren't there. Taking things out of context the way he has done repeatedly is done either out of ignorance or dishonesty. The Bible is not a salad bar from which we can take what we like and leave what we don't. It claims within its own pages to be the Word of the Living God. By its own measure, it is to be accepted as a whole, or rejected as a whole. Trying to pick out what most pleases is an utterly rediculous proposition, for if some of the Bible is untrue, then the whole of it is untrue. If any witness of the Gospels about Christ is false, then ALL of it is false, because if any deception is found in the writings of the Word then the whole thing is unreliable. All I am demanding is that people have the intellectual honesty to accept or reject the Word on its merits, not read into it whatever they like and pervert the message. If they disagree with the message of the Bible, that is their right. They can look to whatever other resources they wish. But to try and use the Divine scripture and twist it to say things that it does NOT say is ignorant or a lie, and there is no excuse for either. It is as simple as that. Tusi does not believe in the scripture's accuracy. How, then, can he use them to prove his point? If they are unreliable, then they are unreliable, and any arguement he would make from them is flawed from the getgo. If I believed that the Gospels were not accurate records of Christ's teachings and ministry, how then could I refer to them as proof of my idea of Christ and His teachings? It is like discounting the validity of a scientific study, and then trying to argue a point based on the data I just criticized as inaccurate. It is a completely illogical stand.

Can I get an amen?  Amen!

(except for a few of your charasmatic points)

Quoted: Quoted: admittedly he used to push people he thought less of into lockers in school, it has just stayed with him into adulthood too, which is a damn shame. Chris Indeed I did bully a few kids in school. But I was on the receiving end of more bullying than I was ever on the giving end of. And the guys I bullied? They bullied me first. Then during the summer of my 8th grade year, I grew a foot and put on about 50 pounds. Suddenly the kids who pushed me around were looking up at me, and were a lot weaker than I was. Things were a bit different after that. The other kids they pushed around who were not the prime specimens of the class (like the special ed kids they used to trip and throw food and balls at) got a bit of respite after I got bigger and stronger. And that was a LOOOOONG time ago. So what relevance does this have to right now? Does it make me less of a Christian to have sin in my past? Or is it because I am not willing to embrace any idea someone comes up with as right that I am somehow a bully? I have news for you: Christianity is a faith of absolutes. You want to know the principles I believe? I believe: # In the verbal inspiration of the Bible. # In one God eternally existing in three persons; namely, the Father, Son, and Holy Ghost. # That Jesus Christ is the only begotten Son of the Father, conceived of the Holy Ghost, and born of the Virgin Mary. That Jesus was crucified, buried, and raised from the dead. That He ascended to heaven and is today at the right hand of the Father as the Intercessor. # That all have sinned and come short of the glory of God and that repentance is commanded of God for all and necessary for forgiveness of sins. # That justification, regeneration, and the new birth are wrought by faith in the blood of Jesus Christ. # In sanctification subsequent to the new birth, through faith in the blood of Christ; through the Word, and by the Holy Ghost. # Holiness to be God's standard of living for His people. # In the baptism with the Holy Ghost subsequent to a clean heart. # In speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance and that it is the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Ghost. # In water baptism by immersion, and all who repent should be baptized in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost. # Divine healing is provided for all in the atonement. # In the Lord's Supper and washing of the saints' feet. # In the premillennial second coming of Jesus. First, to resurrect the righteous dead and to catch away the living saints to Him in the air. Second, to reign on the earth a thousand years. # In the bodily resurrection; eternal life for the righteous, and eternal punishment for the wicked. I believe the testimony of Christ's Apostles and the Holy Spirit above and beyond all else. The Bible , brought about by a divine work of the Holy Spirit, is not a book open to negotiation. Within its own pages it boldly proclaims Divinely revealed Truth to all men who are wise enough to listen. And within the pages of that Blessed Book given to us by an act of God Almighty are CONSTANT warnings against false doctrines, and corruptions of the faith. I believe in the Christ revealed to me in scripture. He IS Savior, and He IS Lord, and there is no other name under heaven, or given among men whereby we must be saved. He IS the Way, Truth and the Life. I am charged repeatedly in the Holy Scriptures to "hold fast" my "confession of faith", to "contend earnestly for the faith once delivered to the saints." This is my charge before God, and I take it seriously. If others wish to disbelieve God's Word, that is their buisness. But it is HARDLY logical to discount the Divine Inspiration of scripture one moment, and then to turn around, grab pieces of it out of context, and then use it to prove a point that the scripture itself does not make. THAT is what I object to, and it is what Tusi has done every time he has quoted the Bible. My simple suggestion was that for the sake of consistency, perhaps he should stick to quoting from the GOT instead of trying to torture meanings out of Divinely Inspired scripture that aren't there. Taking things out of context the way he has done repeatedly is done either out of ignorance or dishonesty. The Bible is not a salad bar from which we can take what we like and leave what we don't. It claims within its own pages to be the Word of the Living God. By its own measure, it is to be accepted as a whole, or rejected as a whole. Trying to pick out what most pleases is an utterly rediculous proposition, for if some of the Bible is untrue, then the whole of it is untrue. If any witness of the Gospels about Christ is false, then ALL of it is false, because if any deception is found in the writings of the Word then the whole thing is unreliable. All I am demanding is that people have the intellectual honesty to accept or reject the Word on its merits, not read into it whatever they like and pervert the message. If they disagree with the message of the Bible, that is their right. They can look to whatever other resources they wish. But to try and use the Divine scripture and twist it to say things that it does NOT say is ignorant or a lie, and there is no excuse for either. It is as simple as that. Tusi does not believe in the scripture's accuracy. How, then, can he use them to prove his point? If they are unreliable, then they are unreliable, and any arguement he would make from them is flawed from the getgo. If I believed that the Gospels were not accurate records of Christ's teachings and ministry, how then could I refer to them as proof of my idea of Christ and His teachings? It is like discounting the validity of a scientific study, and then trying to argue a point based on the data I just criticized as inaccurate. It is a completely illogical stand.

so your being "bullied", you figured it was ok to bully someone else? very interesting indeed.

sorry JW, you are still the same bully, it's just in the pulpit now.
the original poster said he found his way to god. you condemn him [that's not the "right" way to find god, etc, etc.
Can't you just be glad you actually had another gathered with the flock?

personally, you have proven every reason I had to doubt religion true moreso than you ever helped me to grow closer.
I believe (just me now, MHO) you think yourself more important than god for this mission and only you know the way.
If God truly exists, he would not reject anyone who after many trials and tribulations found him.

isn't that type of pride a sin too?

Not to get all preachy. but damn man.

Chris