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Posted: 3/7/2024 7:18:08 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes you are. You are losing money from all the customers who see you passing on fees to them and go elsewhere instead. Inconveniencing your customer base to satisfy your greed is the opposite of good service. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Here are few comments from my customers: "home depot doesnt charge me fees!" "no one carries cash or checks anymore!" shrug. im not losing money for your laziness Yes you are. You are losing money from all the customers who see you passing on fees to them and go elsewhere instead. Inconveniencing your customer base to satisfy your greed is the opposite of good service. Meh, plenty of utilities, loan servicing companies, associations, etc. charge a fee to use a CC. Hell, I bet some CC companies charge a fee to pay your CC bill with a CC.  Protip: Those fees are getting passed on to you at most retailers even when they don't charge extra for CC fees. |
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Posted: 3/7/2024 7:22:31 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Meh, plenty of utilities, loan servicing companies, associations, etc. charge a fee to use a CC. Hell, I bet some CC companies charge a fee to pay your CC bill with a CC. Protip: Those fees are getting passed on to you at most retailers even when they don't charge extra for CC fees. Smart People will use a CC that offers cash back on purchases. Most often, my cash back on a transaction will mostly (or fully) offset the fee at the vendor, whether that "fee" is added separately or built-in. And I still get the protection and convenience of using a CC. |
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Posted: 3/7/2024 7:22:48 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most of the small businesses around here offer a 3-5% cash "discount" |
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Posted: 3/7/2024 7:26:28 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Smart People will use a CC that offers cash back on purchases. Most often, my cash back on a transaction will mostly (or fully) offset the fee at the vendor, whether that "fee" is added separately or built-in. And I still get the protection and convenience of using a CC. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Meh, plenty of utilities, loan servicing companies, associations, etc. charge a fee to use a CC. Hell, I bet some CC companies charge a fee to pay your CC bill with a CC. Protip: Those fees are getting passed on to you at most retailers even when they don't charge extra for CC fees. Smart People will use a CC that offers cash back on purchases. Most often, my cash back on a transaction will mostly (or fully) offset the fee at the vendor, whether that "fee" is added separately or built-in. And I still get the protection and convenience of using a CC. Yes, I use a cash back card too, but cash discounts around here usually exceed those by quite a bit. All costs being equal, I'll use the cash back card, but I also don't cry about cash discounts like some people and take advantage of those as well. |
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Posted: 3/7/2024 7:46:54 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes, I use a cash back card too, but cash discounts around here usually exceed those by quite a bit. All costs being equal, I'll use the cash back card, but I also don't cry about cash discounts like some people and take advantage of those as well. Huh. Guess it varies by region. I haven't seen a "cash discount" around here for more than 3%. And my CC offers anywhere from 2-3% cashback, depending on different things. If you are getting "quite a bit" more than that for cash (and the purchase is significant), then I can see where it certainly does make financial sense under some circumstances. |
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Posted: 3/7/2024 8:01:05 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a local Mexican restaurant that charges 6% extra if you pay with a credit card........crazy.  This. I think the one we visited was 4.5% for credit card. We went once, that was enough, no need to go back. |
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Posted: 3/7/2024 8:01:54 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: [TheyreTheSamePicture.jpg] Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is a local Mexican restaurant that charges 6% extra if you pay with a credit card........crazy. [TheyreTheSamePicture.jpg] They are not the same. You go to Joe Shmoe's Fine Diner and the menu says your well-done wagyu steak dinner will be $90 and your Bud Light will be $10. Your expectation is that your total bill, before tax and social contract dictated obligatory 30% tip, will be $100. Scenario A: In the fine print at the bottom of the menu, it says there is a 6% discount for paying cash. Now your bill is $94, if you pay cash. Bonus, because you just sold a Glock switch to a dude in the parking lot and happen to have cash on you! Otherwise, it is $100 (the amount you expected) if you pay with a credit card. Scenario B: In the fine print at the bottom of the menu, it says there is a 6% fee for using a credit card. Now your bill is $106, unless you pay cash. You don't carry cash because cash is for simps, so you have to pay $6 more than the advertised price in the menu. |
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Posted: 3/7/2024 8:04:23 PM EDT
[#8]
I believe that it was a fallout from the internet tax ruling from the SCOTUS.
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Posted: 3/7/2024 8:56:47 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: I know it costs retailers money every time they run a card, but I never see any places charge the fee to the customers save for one place. Gunbroker. Suppose an FFL sells a NIB rifle on GB for $500. The price from the distributor, shipped, was around $435. The rifle has to be shipped to the purchaser's FFL, with insurance, so add about $70 (and more if it's an oversized box). You're in Alabama so add 4% sales tax of $20 since GB is a nexus. Someone else mentioned that GB charges sales tax on the shipping, I can't confirm or deny that since my state doesn't have sales tax on firearms so there's no sales tax on the guns my customers purchase and have transferred through me. GB also charges a buyer's premium / compliance fee of 1% so add $5. The seller is supposed to collect it from the buyer. So, the total invoice to the buyer is $595. How did the FFL do on the transaction? GB final value fee to the seller on $500 is $26.50. Figure the merchant processor fee of 3% on $595 is 17.85 (this will be higher for AmEx or many rewards cards). So, net to the FFL is $500 - 435 cost to purchase - 26.50 GB fees - 17.85 CC fees = $20.65. GB made more than the FFL did. |
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Posted: 3/7/2024 9:04:02 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Suppose an FFL sells a NIB rifle on GB for $500. The price from the distributor, shipped, was around $435. The rifle has to be shipped to the purchaser's FFL, with insurance, so add about $70 (and more if it's an oversized box). You're in Alabama so add 4% sales tax of $20 since GB is a nexus. Someone else mentioned that GB charges sales tax on the shipping, I can't confirm or deny that since my state doesn't have sales tax on firearms so there's no sales tax on the guns my customers purchase and have transferred through me. GB also charges a buyer's premium / compliance fee of 1% so add $5. The seller is supposed to collect it from the buyer. So, the total invoice to the buyer is $595. How did the FFL do on the transaction? GB final value fee to the seller on $500 is $26.50. Figure the merchant processor fee of 3% on $595 is 17.85 (this will be higher for AmEx or many rewards cards). So, net to the FFL is $500 - 435 cost to purchase - 26.50 GB fees - 17.85 CC fees = $20.65. GB made more than the FFL did. Which is why getting your FFl is not a means to financial freedom |
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Posted: 3/7/2024 9:05:36 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted: I know it costs retailers money every time they run a card, but I never see any places charge the fee to the customers save for one place. Gunbroker. I have bought from lots of online retailers (both gun and non gun related) as well as lots of local brick and mortar stores ranging from large nation wide stores, to small local "mom and pop" stores. None ever charge the cc fee. However it seems 90% of sellers on gunbroker charge 3%. Some I have even seen 4%. So here is my confusion. There are a lot of these sellers on gunbroker that have actual brick and mortar stores. Are they charging the customers that walk in the door in person the 3% fee? Am I just lucky that my local gun stores do not charge that fee, but most places everywhere else in the country do? Or are these sellers charging the 3% fee ONLY on sales on gunbroker and not for customers in their store? Do the CC companies charge a different fee for taking a card online or over the phone, Vs swiping a card at a terminal in the store? I am not really griping about having to pay the fee, I am just confused about why they are charging it, but only at one place? I do see some sellers on gunbroker that do not charge the cc fees and they advertise that in the item listing. 90%? Not really. May have to stalk a while, but deals with no fee can be found. |
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Posted: 3/7/2024 9:05:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: They are not the same. You go to Joe Shmoe's Fine Diner and the menu says your well-done wagyu steak dinner will be $90 and your Bud Light will be $10. Your expectation is that your total bill, before tax and social contract dictated obligatory 30% tip, will be $100. Scenario A: In the fine print at the bottom of the menu, it says there is a 6% discount for paying cash. Now your bill is $94, if you pay cash. Bonus, because you just sold a Glock switch to a dude in the parking lot and happen to have cash on you! Otherwise, it is $100 (the amount you expected) if you pay with a credit card. Scenario B: In the fine print at the bottom of the menu, it says there is a 6% fee for using a credit card. Now your bill is $106, unless you pay cash. You don't carry cash because cash is for simps, so you have to pay $6 more than the advertised price in the menu. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: There is a local Mexican restaurant that charges 6% extra if you pay with a credit card........crazy. [TheyreTheSamePicture.jpg] They are not the same. You go to Joe Shmoe's Fine Diner and the menu says your well-done wagyu steak dinner will be $90 and your Bud Light will be $10. Your expectation is that your total bill, before tax and social contract dictated obligatory 30% tip, will be $100. Scenario A: In the fine print at the bottom of the menu, it says there is a 6% discount for paying cash. Now your bill is $94, if you pay cash. Bonus, because you just sold a Glock switch to a dude in the parking lot and happen to have cash on you! Otherwise, it is $100 (the amount you expected) if you pay with a credit card. Scenario B: In the fine print at the bottom of the menu, it says there is a 6% fee for using a credit card. Now your bill is $106, unless you pay cash. You don't carry cash because cash is for simps, so you have to pay $6 more than the advertised price in the menu. Your scenario A is not something you run into. Joe would have the 6% built into the menu prices beforehand. 106 for card, 106 / 1.06 = 100 for cash. Scenario B is common. 100 * 1.06 = 106 for card, 100 for cash. Same same, only different. Around here most places build it in, and will knock the tax off for cash. I suspect most of these places also "lose" the bill/receipt when they do this. Some places even own their own ATM so they can be a 100% cash business. |
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Posted: 3/7/2024 10:18:47 PM EDT
[#13]
It is a violation of the merchants TOS with the CC company. We once I sold a consignment gun at the shop that the owner had overpriced. Customer made an offer that was below that the owner wanted but called him & gave is the ok. Buyer pulled out his CC & we told him +3%. He called his card company & we saw the amount deducted from our account.
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Posted: 3/7/2024 10:23:27 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is a violation of the merchants TOS with the CC company. We once I sold a consignment gun at the shop that the owner had overpriced. Customer made an offer that was below that the owner wanted but called him & gave is the ok. Buyer pulled out his CC & we told him +3%. He called his card company & we saw the amount deducted from our account. It was in place for a long time. As a matter of fact, I am working with a company who has it in the development roadmap to give merchants an option to automatically add this fee into customer transactions at time of sale |
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Posted: 3/7/2024 10:23:40 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, never once seen anything like that. Is that really a thing? Absolutely. Indo landscaping and 90% of customers paybwith a card. I use Stripe. 2.9% .30/transaction. No subscription fees. Mowing accounts I eat it. Big tickets, I encourage check, venmo or cashapp, or pass on the fee. I'm not eating it on a $1000 or higher. |
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Posted: 3/7/2024 10:30:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Went to Mackinac Island last summer for our anniversary, every store had a sign stating CC get a 3% surcharge. I think something was passed to allow that.
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Posted: 3/7/2024 10:31:36 PM EDT
[#17]
3% isn’t right, it’s the SOBs that charge 20% to help offset costs, don’t pay the workers and staff expects a 20% tip. Fuck no.
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Posted: 3/8/2024 12:37:39 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes you are. You are losing money from all the customers who see you passing on fees to them and go elsewhere instead. Inconveniencing your customer base to satisfy your greed is the opposite of good service. Greed? You sound like you'd be comfortable at DU. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 3:37:06 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have to consider Operation Chokepoint. There are thousands of CC processors. But due to Obama/Holder and Operation Chokepoint there are only a few that will work with gun stores, and do so at an increased rate because they know the gun dealers options are limited. Gunstores and hardcore porn shops are the same category to banks in this regard. Rates are very different depending on many scenarios. Lets use 2% as the base If the card is present and swiped you pay 3% If the card is present and chipped you pay 2% If the card is present but hand keyed you pay 3.5% If the card is not present you pay 4% if the card is not present and the shipping/billing address doesn't match you pay 5% if the card is not present and only the zip code not billing address match you pay 4.5% If it is a gift card you pay 6% That's exactly right. Plus all the other fees a business is charged by the credit card companies really puts the cost to the business at around 6% - 8% for taking credit cards. Everyone uses cash back,, points or milage cards now days. Those cost small businesses even more. That's not even touching on American Express charges. Imagine being a small business and paying an average of 10% for credit card transactions. It's time to blame the credit card companies because they are fucking over small businesses. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 4:08:24 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Cash Back" "Mileage" and "Rewards" cards can charge the vendor up to 8%. Yes 8%. I charged anyone using a card 5% at my business. I preferred checks. I eventually stopped accepting cards all together. Soon, small businesses simply won't be able to afford taking credit cards any longer. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 7:05:09 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most of the small businesses around here offer a 3-5% cash "discount" That's exactly what we do. In our business the profit margin on equipment is typically around 12%, since we have to compete with internet 'box houses' that rely on volume. The 3% that we're charged for a C/C transaction is 25% of our profit. We also have to compete against out-of-state sellers who break the law by not charging sales tax. We rely on service and support, but that only works with long-term customers who know the value of the VAR business model. What's really kept us in business is a focus on system design, installation, training, and post-sale support. We can make good profit on that if we're smart. Companies in our industry that rely solely on equipment sales have to make up for profit lost to the C/C companies. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 7:20:11 AM EDT
[#22]
I wish everyone would give a cash discount or charge a CC fee.
If people knew how much they were wasting every year, by using a credit card, the use would decline dramatically. We should also end payroll tax deductions. Retail price tags, menus and so forth should include sales tax. And it should remain broken out separately on the receipt. With inflation fucking everyone over, clawing a few % back from the banks and government would be big wins for the little people. But our society is too stupid to do it. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 7:29:06 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Smart People will use a CC that offers cash back on purchases. Most often, my cash back on a transaction will mostly (or fully) offset the fee at the vendor, whether that "fee" is added separately or built-in. And I still get the protection and convenience of using a CC. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Meh, plenty of utilities, loan servicing companies, associations, etc. charge a fee to use a CC. Hell, I bet some CC companies charge a fee to pay your CC bill with a CC. Protip: Those fees are getting passed on to you at most retailers even when they don't charge extra for CC fees. Smart People will use a CC that offers cash back on purchases. Most often, my cash back on a transaction will mostly (or fully) offset the fee at the vendor, whether that "fee" is added separately or built-in. And I still get the protection and convenience of using a CC. LOL. No. At best, your rewards might recover half of the price increase the use of CC has on the cost of your goods. They have giant ass buildings in places like San Francisco. People who think like you paid for that. https://usa.visa.com/about-visa/newsroom/press-releases.releaseId.16691.html They hate America, you and your guns. I'm not trying to come off holier than thou, I have a Visa card like most people and use credit cards more than I should... But don't be fooled. It's a total scam our fathers generation fell for. Higher prices, less privacy for some minor convenience, was a bad trade. Especially before the Internet. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 8:01:00 AM EDT
[#24]
I love charging credit card fees. Saved one of my brands an insane amount of money by charging the customer for it .
. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 8:08:51 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: LOL. No. At best, your rewards might recover half of the price increase the use of CC has on the cost of your goods. They have giant ass buildings in places like San Francisco. People who think like you paid for that. They hate America, you and your guns. I'm not trying to come off holier than thou, I have a Visa card like most people and use credit cards more than I should... But don't be fooled. It's a total scam our fathers generation fell for. Higher prices, less privacy for some minor convenience, was a bad trade. Especially before the Internet. Clearly you're wrong about your blanket statement "covers only half of the increase at best" of course... it's not even worth arguing. Businesses make decisions about all sorts of costs that affect their bottom line (location, hiring smart vs dumb employees, advertising, and yes, the cost of accepting CC) ... all of these things increase their costs but what matters is: is the increase in cost less than the increase in their profits? Using credit cards (and credit in general) as a tool is what smart people and businesses do. Only people who can't properly handle their financial decisions are afraid of credit cards. Clearly many CC companies hate us but that's the world we live in. The Chinese are communists that hate us too but I'll bet you still buy Chinese goods, including the electronics you're using to be on this board, and many of the parts in the car you choose to drive. "But I have no choice" is false - you can choose not to have a computer/tablet/cellphone. You can choose not to drive a car newer than 1978 (as long as you never need parts -- yup, Chinese made). It would be impossible to live a modern life and only patronize businesses that love us. If someone wants to do that and live in a cave, that's up to them, but it's not for me. Perhaps you LIKE going to get a money order and snail-mailing it every time you order something from an online vendor (and with USPS, who knows when or even if it will get there) but I think in most cases that it's a ridiculous way to do business. But you go on if that's what you want. Each business can choose to NOT accept credit cards if they want -- I don't believe there are laws preventing that. If they think it's an overall minus for their bottom line as you are proposing, then their business will do better as cash/check only. But I don't think evidence will support that conclusion for the vast majority of retailers. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 8:45:37 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Smart People will use a CC that offers cash back on purchases. Most often, my cash back on a transaction will mostly (or fully) offset the fee at the vendor, whether that "fee" is added separately or built-in. And I still get the protection and convenience of using a CC. Where do you think the money for the cash back comes from? |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 8:47:38 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I believe that it was a fallout from the internet tax ruling from the SCOTUS. Seriously? Places charged minimums for credit card purchases for years. Consumers have gravitated to going with plastic money over the past 20 years, and companies pay 4% of the transaction to a company to accept Visa. It’s why places rarely accepted American Express. The fees were high. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 8:47:54 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You have to consider Operation Chokepoint. There are thousands of CC processors. But due to Obama/Holder and Operation Chokepoint there are only a few that will work with gun stores, and do so at an increased rate because they know the gun dealers options are limited. Gunstores and hardcore porn shops are the same category to banks in this regard. Rates are very different depending on many scenarios. Lets use 2% as the base If the card is present and swiped you pay 3% If the card is present and chipped you pay 2% If the card is present but hand keyed you pay 3.5% If the card is not present you pay 4% if the card is not present and the shipping/billing address doesn't match you pay 5% if the card is not present and only the zip code not billing address match you pay 4.5% If it is a gift card you pay 6% @bigbore All that and then you also are held hostage by the threat of a potential dispute and chargeback. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 8:53:12 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where do you think the money for the cash back comes from? Transaction fees. So what? There is no big secret here folks. It is as simple as this: If a business thinks they will be more profitable NOT accepting CC, they are free to do so. No one is forcing them. If that business chooses to accept CC, it means they think overall they will be more profitable that way, not less. What is so hard to understand about this simple fact?? Businesses choose what goods and services to offer (including payment methods), and customers choose which businesses to patronize. What do you have against that? |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 8:57:35 AM EDT
[#30]
I bet you anything that large retailers like walmart, lowes, home depot, target, costco, etc... that do probably hundreds of thousands of transactions a day do not pay 3% to take a card.
They have probably negotiated a much much smaller fee. Hell I would not be surprised if it was less than 1%. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:03:45 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Clearly you're wrong about your blanket statement "covers only half of the increase at best" of course... it's not even worth arguing. Businesses make decisions about all sorts of costs that affect their bottom line (location, hiring smart vs dumb employees, advertising, and yes, the cost of accepting CC) ... all of these things increase their costs but what matters is: is the increase in cost less than the increase in their profits? Using credit cards (and credit in general) as a tool is what smart people and businesses do. Only people who can't properly handle their financial decisions are afraid of credit cards. Clearly many CC companies hate us but that's the world we live in. The Chinese are communists that hate us too but I'll bet you still buy Chinese goods, including the electronics you're using to be on this board, and many of the parts in the car you choose to drive. "But I have no choice" is false - you can choose not to have a computer/tablet/cellphone. You can choose not to drive a car newer than 1978 (as long as you never need parts -- yup, Chinese made). It would be impossible to live a modern life and only patronize businesses that love us. If someone wants to do that and live in a cave, that's up to them, but it's not for me. Perhaps you LIKE going to get a money order and snail-mailing it every time you order something from an online vendor (and with USPS, who knows when or even if it will get there) but I think in most cases that it's a ridiculous way to do business. But you go on if that's what you want. Each business can choose to NOT accept credit cards if they want -- I don't believe there are laws preventing that. If they think it's an overall minus for their bottom line as you are proposing, then their business will do better as cash/check only. But I don't think evidence will support that conclusion for the vast majority of retailers. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: LOL. No. At best, your rewards might recover half of the price increase the use of CC has on the cost of your goods. They have giant ass buildings in places like San Francisco. People who think like you paid for that. They hate America, you and your guns. I'm not trying to come off holier than thou, I have a Visa card like most people and use credit cards more than I should... But don't be fooled. It's a total scam our fathers generation fell for. Higher prices, less privacy for some minor convenience, was a bad trade. Especially before the Internet. Clearly you're wrong about your blanket statement "covers only half of the increase at best" of course... it's not even worth arguing. Businesses make decisions about all sorts of costs that affect their bottom line (location, hiring smart vs dumb employees, advertising, and yes, the cost of accepting CC) ... all of these things increase their costs but what matters is: is the increase in cost less than the increase in their profits? Using credit cards (and credit in general) as a tool is what smart people and businesses do. Only people who can't properly handle their financial decisions are afraid of credit cards. Clearly many CC companies hate us but that's the world we live in. The Chinese are communists that hate us too but I'll bet you still buy Chinese goods, including the electronics you're using to be on this board, and many of the parts in the car you choose to drive. "But I have no choice" is false - you can choose not to have a computer/tablet/cellphone. You can choose not to drive a car newer than 1978 (as long as you never need parts -- yup, Chinese made). It would be impossible to live a modern life and only patronize businesses that love us. If someone wants to do that and live in a cave, that's up to them, but it's not for me. Perhaps you LIKE going to get a money order and snail-mailing it every time you order something from an online vendor (and with USPS, who knows when or even if it will get there) but I think in most cases that it's a ridiculous way to do business. But you go on if that's what you want. Each business can choose to NOT accept credit cards if they want -- I don't believe there are laws preventing that. If they think it's an overall minus for their bottom line as you are proposing, then their business will do better as cash/check only. But I don't think evidence will support that conclusion for the vast majority of retailers. Retailers, who are not fools (most who stay in business are not) are good at making a profit on everything. The smartest retailers build the price into the cost of goods, because now it's hidden... Do you really believe that's to the consumers benefit? LOL. Then the card/bank gets their cut. Do you think that's coming out of the retailers bottom line in most cases? You think Amazon and Walmart ate that cost of doing business? I got news, you are paying for all of it. I would be amazed if the resulting effect of the cost increase to products is ever less than 5%. 7-10% is probably much more accurate. A good reward card gets what 3% rewards on most things, maybe a little more on some specific transactions. These are all generalities, as some cards have higher fees and rewards than others. Some are free to the user, others have user fees as well. At the end of the day, it is only retards who think they got a good deal and celebrate that the bank gives them cash back. They probably still got fucked out of 3-9% for doing commerce in the credit society. As you pointed out, there's not much fighting it for the average person. As a society, we have been tricked into it. So you might as well use a rewards card anywhere they don't offer a better discount or charge a fee for card use. Pretending that extensive use of credit cards for routine purchase is a good thing, or not significantly different than cash... Well that is just fucking retarded. Carrying a balance and paying interest on a card is tripling down on retarded, but a lot of people do it. The end result is banks and credit card companies get rich. Smart retailers make more money. We get some minor convenience, at the cost of privacy and an extra 3-9% on top of everything. And the undisciplined are tempted every day to spend more than they should. What a fucking retarded system. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:06:37 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bet you anything that large retailers like walmart, lowes, home depot, target, costco, etc... that do probably hundreds of thousands of transactions a day do not pay 3% to take a card. They have probably negotiated a much much smaller fee. Hell I would not be surprised if it was less than 1%. They are subject to the very same interchange fees that everyone else is. You can go download them from each of the card networks. They can do deals for the smaller amount of their cost (processing), and they can do Network-preference/routing deals, but it isn't amazing. The big guys don't pass on the cost of payment acceptance as an either/or option, they just increase the cost of every item in the store based on their total cost of payment acceptance. Yes, really. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:07:43 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Retailers, who are not fools (most who stay in business are not) are good at making a profit on everything. The smartest retailers build the price into the cost of goods, because now it's hidden... Do you really believe that's to the consumers benefit? LOL. Then the card/bank gets their cut. Do you think that's coming out of the retailers bottom line in most cases? You think Amazon and Walmart ate that cost of doing business? I got news, you are paying for all of it. I would be amazed if the resulting effect of the cost increase to products is ever less than 5%. 7-10% is probably much more accurate. A good reward card gets what 3% rewards on most things, maybe a little more on some specific transactions. These are all generalities, as some cards have higher fees and rewards than others. Some are free to the user, others have user fees as well. At the end of the day, it is only retards who think they got a good deal and celebrate that the bank gives them cash back. They probably still got fucked out of 3-9% for doing commerce in the credit society. As you pointed out, there's not much fighting it for the average person. As a society, we have been tricked into it. So you might as well use a rewards card anywhere they don't offer a better discount or charge a fee for card use. Pretending that extensive use of credit cards for routine purchase is a good thing, or not significantly different than cash... Well that is just fucking retarded. Carrying a balance and paying interest on a card is tripling down on retarded, but a lot of people do it. The end result is banks and credit card companies get rich. Smart retailers make more money. We get some minor convenience, at the cost of privacy and an extra 3-9% on top of everything. And the undisciplined are tempted every day to spend more than they should. What a fucking retarded system. Good luck in your cave with all your misconceptions. Do let us know when your perfect world of commerce magically manifests itself. I'll leave you with a simple question: who is FORCING businesses to accept CC? It's not the CC companies. It's not the customer. It's not govt. Why do businesses CHOOSE to accept CC that, according to some, is so detrimental to their bottom line, if no one is forcing them to do it? (If you're thinking "because they make more money accepting CC than not" you're on the right track.) |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:12:23 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a local Mexican restaurant that charges 6% extra if you pay with a credit card........crazy. Señor, ifs cue uce ze plastic eyes has to pay taxes and can’t pocket the sales tax. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:13:14 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I bet you anything that large retailers like walmart, lowes, home depot, target, costco, etc... that do probably hundreds of thousands of transactions a day do not pay 3% to take a card. They have probably negotiated a much much smaller fee. Hell I would not be surprised if it was less than 1%. Doubt So your theory is this: 1. I spend $10,000 for appliances at Lowes. 2. Lowe's pays Visa 1/2% for the transaction $50. 3. My bank gives me 1% back on the transaction $100. Most cards these days give at least 1% cash back. How are the credit cards and banks making money off of transactions by charging less than 1%? Why do they even bother to offer their own store credit cards, if other cards charge such a low fee? |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:15:18 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @bigbore All that and then you also are held hostage by the threat of a potential dispute and chargeback. Correct, the customer has 9-12 months depending on the card to file the dispute and the customer ALWAYS wins when the card was not present. Then the stores rates go up after a couple charge backs as they are considered high risk. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:17:43 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where do you think the money for the cash back comes from? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Smart People will use a CC that offers cash back on purchases. Most often, my cash back on a transaction will mostly (or fully) offset the fee at the vendor, whether that "fee" is added separately or built-in. And I still get the protection and convenience of using a CC. Where do you think the money for the cash back comes from? Lol @ thinking the transaction fee is where the money comes from and not the MAJORITY of credit card users paying 23% interest and minimum payments at the end of every month. Nationally, credit card debt reached 1.13 TRILLION dollars in 2023. Do you know how much interest that is? Very few people use their cash back cards responsibly and pay them off at the end of the month but smart people do. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:25:08 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most cards these days give at least 1% cash back. How are the credit cards and banks making money off of transactions by charging less than 1%? Why do they even bother to offer their own store credit cards, if other cards charge such a low fee? Because most people aren't paying their cards off every month so the credit issuer is making 13-30% in interest every month. Sure, I'll gladly pay 3% of the population a 1% cash back in exchange for 97% of the population paying 13-30% in interest. It's a great come-on, a loss leader. Just like your cheap oil change at the dealership always leads to them finding other things that need maintenance. Oil change is $30 but we found you need $100 worth of air filters, $50 in wiper blades, $400 in brakes, or $1500 in struts. If they didn't offer the cheap oil change they wouldn't have gotten your other business. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:27:18 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good luck in your cave with all your misconceptions. Do let us know when your perfect world of commerce magically manifests itself. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Retailers, who are not fools (most who stay in business are not) are good at making a profit on everything. The smartest retailers build the price into the cost of goods, because now it's hidden... Do you really believe that's to the consumers benefit? LOL. Then the card/bank gets their cut. Do you think that's coming out of the retailers bottom line in most cases? You think Amazon and Walmart ate that cost of doing business? I got news, you are paying for all of it. I would be amazed if the resulting effect of the cost increase to products is ever less than 5%. 7-10% is probably much more accurate. A good reward card gets what 3% rewards on most things, maybe a little more on some specific transactions. These are all generalities, as some cards have higher fees and rewards than others. Some are free to the user, others have user fees as well. At the end of the day, it is only retards who think they got a good deal and celebrate that the bank gives them cash back. They probably still got fucked out of 3-9% for doing commerce in the credit society. As you pointed out, there's not much fighting it for the average person. As a society, we have been tricked into it. So you might as well use a rewards card anywhere they don't offer a better discount or charge a fee for card use. Pretending that extensive use of credit cards for routine purchase is a good thing, or not significantly different than cash... Well that is just fucking retarded. Carrying a balance and paying interest on a card is tripling down on retarded, but a lot of people do it. The end result is banks and credit card companies get rich. Smart retailers make more money. We get some minor convenience, at the cost of privacy and an extra 3-9% on top of everything. And the undisciplined are tempted every day to spend more than they should. What a fucking retarded system. Good luck in your cave with all your misconceptions. Do let us know when your perfect world of commerce magically manifests itself. Go ahead and specifically state the misconceptions. The only misconception was your belief that reward programs negate the fees. They do not. They simply offset some of the fees. I'm not a fan of their solution, but the fucked up system I described is why the Democrats are trying to go after Visa with legislation. They want a law that limits and thus lowers the percentage fees of card transactions. There are laws like that in the EU, and the Dems love them some EU Communist style laws. Visas big defense is "but meh reward programs." The retort to that has been that the math there doesn't check out. They are right about that. "But muh capitalism" well Visa has essentially become a monopoly through the use of legally sketchy means. The Dems are right about that part too. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:32:06 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol @ thinking the transaction fee is where the money comes from and not the MAJORITY of credit card users paying 23% interest and minimum payments at the end of every month. Nationally, credit card debt reached 1.13 TRILLION dollars in 2023. Do you know how much interest that is? Very few people use their cash back cards responsibly and pay them off at the end of the month but smart people do. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Smart People will use a CC that offers cash back on purchases. Most often, my cash back on a transaction will mostly (or fully) offset the fee at the vendor, whether that "fee" is added separately or built-in. And I still get the protection and convenience of using a CC. Where do you think the money for the cash back comes from? Lol @ thinking the transaction fee is where the money comes from and not the MAJORITY of credit card users paying 23% interest and minimum payments at the end of every month. Nationally, credit card debt reached 1.13 TRILLION dollars in 2023. Do you know how much interest that is? Very few people use their cash back cards responsibly and pay them off at the end of the month but smart people do. That's not correct. Credit card rewards (like airline miles, points, cash back) is funded by the premium interchange associated with the card. That interchange is paid by the merchant everytime you present it. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:32:39 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because most people aren't paying their cards off every month so the credit issuer is making 13-30% in interest every month. Sure, I'll gladly pay 3% of the population a 1% cash back in exchange for 97% of the population paying 13-30% in interest. It's a great come-on, a loss leader. Just like your cheap oil change at the dealership always leads to them finding other things that need maintenance. Oil change is $30 but we found you need $100 worth of air filters, $50 in wiper blades, $400 in brakes, or $1500 in struts. If they didn't offer the cheap oil change they wouldn't have gotten your other business. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Most cards these days give at least 1% cash back. How are the credit cards and banks making money off of transactions by charging less than 1%? Why do they even bother to offer their own store credit cards, if other cards charge such a low fee? Because most people aren't paying their cards off every month so the credit issuer is making 13-30% in interest every month. Sure, I'll gladly pay 3% of the population a 1% cash back in exchange for 97% of the population paying 13-30% in interest. It's a great come-on, a loss leader. Just like your cheap oil change at the dealership always leads to them finding other things that need maintenance. Oil change is $30 but we found you need $100 worth of air filters, $50 in wiper blades, $400 in brakes, or $1500 in struts. If they didn't offer the cheap oil change they wouldn't have gotten your other business. You aren't wrong about the rest of it, but you are wrong about the fees. They are absolutely making a shit ton of money on fees. IIRC the fees are the only or at least the primary way Visa, MasterCard and AMEX make money. The issuing bank makes the money on the CC loan. There may be some arrangements other than that, but I believe that's how it typically works. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:33:13 AM EDT
[#42]
I was surprised that my local gun store charge 3% extra for cc
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:34:22 AM EDT
[#43]
You been under a rock? This has been the case for decades.
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:39:32 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most of the small businesses around here offer a 3-5% cash "discount" |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:42:18 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Transaction fees. So what? There is no big secret here folks. It is as simple as this: If a business thinks they will be more profitable NOT accepting CC, they are free to do so. No one is forcing them. If that business chooses to accept CC, it means they think overall they will be more profitable that way, not less. What is so hard to understand about this simple fact?? Businesses choose what goods and services to offer (including payment methods), and customers choose which businesses to patronize. What do you have against that? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Where do you think the money for the cash back comes from? Transaction fees. So what? There is no big secret here folks. It is as simple as this: If a business thinks they will be more profitable NOT accepting CC, they are free to do so. No one is forcing them. If that business chooses to accept CC, it means they think overall they will be more profitable that way, not less. What is so hard to understand about this simple fact?? Businesses choose what goods and services to offer (including payment methods), and customers choose which businesses to patronize. What do you have against that? And they also have the choice to pass the CC costs on to all customers or just the CC paying customers. What do you have against that? |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:43:18 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because most people aren't paying their cards off every month so the credit issuer is making 13-30% in interest every month. Sure, I'll gladly pay 3% of the population a 1% cash back in exchange for 97% of the population paying 13-30% in interest. It's a great come-on, a loss leader. Just like your cheap oil change at the dealership always leads to them finding other things that need maintenance. Oil change is $30 but we found you need $100 worth of air filters, $50 in wiper blades, $400 in brakes, or $1500 in struts. If they didn't offer the cheap oil change they wouldn't have gotten your other business. Just because some people misuse guns to murder doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to have guns. Similarly: Just because some people misuse credit to their own detriment doesn't mean I should be restricted from using it for my benefit. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:43:25 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is a violation of the merchants TOS with the CC company. We once I sold a consignment gun at the shop that the owner had overpriced. Customer made an offer that was below that the owner wanted but called him & gave is the ok. Buyer pulled out his CC & we told him +3%. He called his card company & we saw the amount deducted from our account. Oh look. Bad information from the LGS that doesn’t even have anything to do with firearms. That’s awesome ! |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:49:24 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That would keep them on the legal side of their card payment agreement. There maybe something about Gunbroker that's a loophole for the retailer to charge extra for using a credit card. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Most of the small businesses around here offer a 3-5% cash "discount" "As of January 2023, only two states and one jurisdiction still outlaw the use of credit card surcharges. They are a result of non-qualified transactions of different communications methods.: Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Puerto Rico." |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:50:11 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: crypto is less real than the paper currently in use when the government figures out a way to use crypto to their benefit in tax collection, transaction tracking, etc. it will be the currency of the land |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:53:36 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You been under a rock? This has been the case for decades. Not when the LGS prices are already 15%-20% higher the larger retail stores. This makes supporting small businesses harder. |
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