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Posted: 3/8/2024 9:54:04 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And they also have the choice to pass the CC costs on to all customers or just the CC paying customers. What do you have against that? Who said I did? If you re-read carefully, I said I don't like paying a tacked on CC fee, but had no problem with it if the vendor is up front about it (don't surprise me with an extra fee at checkout). I can do math and figure out if the total, including fees, is something I'm willing to pay. Not complicated. Business chooses what to charge and I choose whether or not to patronize that business. Freedom. Errybody happy. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 10:01:01 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Around here most places build it in, and will knock the tax off for cash. I suspect most of these places also "lose" the bill/receipt when they do this. Some places even own their own ATM so they can be a 100% cash business. I always thought that lot's of the cash you pay to small stores never goes on the books. And they make a % off their private atm machines. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 10:04:55 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a local Mexican restaurant that charges 6% extra if you pay with a credit card........crazy.  Need cash on hand to pay the staff daily..... 
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Posted: 3/8/2024 10:08:09 AM EDT
[#4]
Credit card processors charge a fee. FFLs pay a higher rate than most other businesses because firearm sales are considered "high risk."
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Posted: 3/8/2024 10:08:49 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I always thought that lot's of the cash you pay to small stores never goes on the books. And they make a % off their private atm machines. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Around here most places build it in, and will knock the tax off for cash. I suspect most of these places also "lose" the bill/receipt when they do this. Some places even own their own ATM so they can be a 100% cash business. I always thought that lot's of the cash you pay to small stores never goes on the books. And they make a % off their private atm machines. Because fuck banks and fuck the government too. I always try to support those type of businesses by paying in cash. I try to use cash for tips too. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 10:10:46 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Just because some people misuse guns to murder doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to have guns. Similarly: Just because some people misuse credit to their own detriment doesn't mean I should be restricted from using it for my benefit. Possibly the worst analogy ever. No one is trying to stop you from using your card, in fact they actively encourage you to do so in hopes that you'll be irresponsible or slip up so they can make that high interest. That is why they tease people with cash back, mileage, and other benefits; they know most people are irresponsible when it comes to finances. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 10:18:26 AM EDT
[#7]
There are card processors that charge the customer the processing fee as a line item and pay the retailer 100% of the purchase price. In many gun shops, the state makes more on sales tax then the dealer does on the sale. So a 3% hit on a 5-10% margin is pretty substantial.
Thats bad enough, the finance companies are gigging the merchant for 10% on 60 month retail financing. Kinda hard to justify being in business when the state makes 7-10%, the financing company gets 10% on the entire purchase, floor plan company is collecting interest on the inventory, employees want $20/hr plus what they cost you etc. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 10:20:00 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Possibly the worst analogy ever. No one is trying to stop you from using your card, in fact they actively encourage you to do so in hopes that you'll be irresponsible or slip up so they can make that high interest. That is why they tease people with cash back, mileage, and other benefits; they know most people are irresponsible when it comes to finances. It's a great analogy -- punishing everyone for the misdeeds of the few. You haven't been reading this thread, apparently. People here on this thread saying CC are the debbil for EVERYONE INVOLVED (vendor and customer alike), and there is no possible way to use them to your advantage, and businesses should just stop accepting them. I wouldn't call that "no one is trying to stop you". |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 10:27:18 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Possibly the worst analogy ever. No one is trying to stop you from using your card, in fact they actively encourage you to do so in hopes that you'll be irresponsible or slip up so they can make that high interest. That is why they tease people with cash back, mileage, and other benefits; they know most people are irresponsible when it comes to finances. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Just because some people misuse guns to murder doesn't mean I shouldn't be allowed to have guns. Similarly: Just because some people misuse credit to their own detriment doesn't mean I should be restricted from using it for my benefit. Possibly the worst analogy ever. No one is trying to stop you from using your card, in fact they actively encourage you to do so in hopes that you'll be irresponsible or slip up so they can make that high interest. That is why they tease people with cash back, mileage, and other benefits; they know most people are irresponsible when it comes to finances. Yeah I used to work at a place that charged a CC fee... You should have seen the entitlement and ignorance of a lot of the "muh credit card points" idiots. They genuinely do not understand that the most honest businesses give cash discounts and only charge a 3% fee or whatever for cards. Everyone else just hides the cost in their goods. But idiot boomers think they are getting a freebie "reward" when they use a CC. Tons of people get all uppity when they see the CC fees itemized.
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Posted: 3/8/2024 10:35:42 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yeah I used to work at a place that charged a CC fee... You should have seen the entitlement and ignorance of a lot of the "muh credit card points" idiots. They genuinely do not understand that the most honest businesses give cash discounts and only charge a 3% fee or whatever for cards. Everyone else just hides the cost in their goods. But idiot boomers think they are getting a freebie "reward" when they use a CC. Tons of people get all uppity when they see the CC fees itemized. Same stories about morons getting all bent about NOT getting a discount because "but but but, I'm paying in CASH! 50$ CASH right here in my hand! You need to gib me muh CASH discount!" |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 10:39:40 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Another reason I don't understand the unwillingness to embrace cryptocurrency. I can settle a transaction with Algorand or Cronus coin faster than a card authorization for pennies. For example the last CRO transaction I made was for just over $1k and it cost $0.13. ALGO similar transaction for $0.19. What's that, 0.015%? I am doing it more and more as of late, however there is a leaning curve, setting up wallets, a ton of different crypto currencies, and the sheer number of scammers that will rob you 10,000 ways that likely intimidates most. I sure would love it if more retailers would offer the ability, particularly sporting goods and gun shops, which would remove the bank, credit card companies and government over watch of firearm and ammo related sales,that neither has any business doing anyway. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 10:49:18 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Most of the small businesses around here offer a 3-5% cash "discount" Offering a discount for cash is the appropriate approach. If the price anticipates customers using a credit card, then it makes sense for removing the "padding" when they don't. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 10:51:46 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same stories about morons getting all bent about NOT getting a discount because "but but but, I'm paying in CASH! 50$ CASH right here in my hand! You need to gib me muh CASH discount!" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Yeah I used to work at a place that charged a CC fee... You should have seen the entitlement and ignorance of a lot of the "muh credit card points" idiots. They genuinely do not understand that the most honest businesses give cash discounts and only charge a 3% fee or whatever for cards. Everyone else just hides the cost in their goods. But idiot boomers think they are getting a freebie "reward" when they use a CC. Tons of people get all uppity when they see the CC fees itemized. Same stories about morons getting all bent about NOT getting a discount because "but but but, I'm paying in CASH! 50$ CASH right here in my hand! You need to gib me muh CASH discount!" Despite the fact that it's cheaper for the retailer, I've literally never heard someone ask for a cash discount at a store. Put up a sign that CC cost 3% more... Because well obviously they do, and every fag fuck, jort wearing faggot gets all uppity with the help. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 10:56:03 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Despite the fact that it's cheaper for the retailer, I've literally never heard someone ask for a cash discount at a store. Put up a sign that CC cost 3% more... Because well obviously they do, and every fag fuck, jort wearing faggot gets all uppity with the help. You haven't been around much then. We can throw around "moron" stories from both sides literally all day long, but simply retelling personal anecdotes and calling people names doesn't prove anything. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 11:16:40 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @ bigbore All that and then you also are held hostage by the threat of a potential dispute and chargeback. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: You have to consider Operation Chokepoint. There are thousands of CC processors. But due to Obama/Holder and Operation Chokepoint there are only a few that will work with gun stores, and do so at an increased rate because they know the gun dealers options are limited. Gunstores and hardcore porn shops are the same category to banks in this regard. Rates are very different depending on many scenarios. Lets use 2% as the base If the card is present and swiped you pay 3% If the card is present and chipped you pay 2% If the card is present but hand keyed you pay 3.5% If the card is not present you pay 4% if the card is not present and the shipping/billing address doesn't match you pay 5% if the card is not present and only the zip code not billing address match you pay 4.5% If it is a gift card you pay 6% All that and then you also are held hostage by the threat of a potential dispute and chargeback. 
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Posted: 3/8/2024 11:21:02 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Lol @ thinking the transaction fee is where the money comes from and not the MAJORITY of credit card users paying 23% interest and minimum payments at the end of every month. Nationally, credit card debt reached 1.13 TRILLION dollars in 2023. Do you know how much interest that is? Very few people use their cash back cards responsibly and pay them off at the end of the month but smart people do. Of all the money spent daily/monthly/yearly, the banks and processors take 2.5-3.5% of each transaction. Sure there are processing costs, but "Come on, Jack!", that sum of money across all transactions is like trying to count the stars or ants. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 11:23:00 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same stories about morons getting all bent about NOT getting a discount because "but but but, I'm paying in CASH! 50$ CASH right here in my hand! You need to gib me muh CASH discount!" I'm not talking about a small business here, I'm talking about Walmart or Kroger, or a large complex parking system like a University, Airport or Hospital, etc... when there is cash, there is always theft. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 11:32:42 AM EDT
[#18]
I don’t eat at restaurants that upcharge for using a credit card. We ate at a Mexican place last month that failed to inform me about the charge and slipped the 4.5% onto the bill. We eat there occasionally and this place has raised menu prices several times since covid. I asked about the upcharge and the waiter acted like he had no idea. I took it out of his tip. Never going back. There’s plenty of other places to eat. If you’re going to upcharge patrons on their bill, you’d better inform them as they enter with clear and concise signage.
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Posted: 3/8/2024 12:22:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: the flip side of that is the difficulty and added labor in handling cash. Security, Reporting, Audits, Counting, Restocking, Administration, etc... I'm not talking about a small business here, I'm talking about Walmart or Kroger, or a large complex parking system like a University, Airport or Hospital, etc... when there is cash, there is always theft. Its present on any business that isnt one employee, its just not a line on the P&L so business owners dont freak out about it. I am a controller for a national industrial distributor that does B2B and direct retail sales. 3% is peanuts compared to the amount we pay to account managers trying to get our customers to pay us timely or at all. Thats not mentioning the cash reconciliations, theft etc you alluded to also. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 1:27:27 PM EDT
[#20]
I like these threads.
Screw plastic fees. 
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Posted: 3/8/2024 2:18:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It used to be a violation of the credit card agreement to charge customers the 3%. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 2:22:34 PM EDT
[#22]
I guess it is very regional for places offering discounts for cash.
Like mentioned earlier, none of the places around here I go to offers a cash discount or specifically list a extra fee for using a card. So most likely they are putting the fee into their prices. Now if places around me started offering discounts for cash, I would be more inclined to keep cash on me. However if I am paying the same price for something weather I use cash or a card, then I will use my card. Keeping up with cash can be risky. Lets say you keep $500 cash in you wallet. Now you accidently lose it, or it gets stolen. That cash is forever gone. Now if all you had in your wallet was just a couple credit cards, a quick call and you can cancel them and you are not out of any money. I will carry cash to a gun show. However I do not keep it in my wallet. I usually keep it in my front pocket. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 2:23:34 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It still is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It used to be a violation of the credit card agreement to charge customers the 3%. Not ours, we've already had that conversation with them |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 3:07:55 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It still is. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It used to be a violation of the credit card agreement to charge customers the 3%. https://staxpayments.com/blog/legal-charge-credit-card-fee/ The Legality of Credit Card Fees The question you're probably asking right now is: Can merchants charge a credit card fee legally? The answer is: yes, if your business operates in states where it is legal to do so. As of the time of publishing this, the practice of imposing additional fees on credit card transactions (i.e., credit card surcharges) is prohibited in only three U.S. locations: Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Puerto Rico. For a long time, credit card fees were prohibited by federal law. This was overturned in a class-action lawsuit against Visa and Mastercard in 2013, which awarded merchants the right to pass credit card processing fees onto consumers. Since then, many U.S. states have changed the law to make credit card surcharges legal, or have suspended laws pending other lawsuits. It's worth noting CardX played a pivotal role in advocating for merchant affordability and consumer fairness. CardX was the only solution provider to file a brief in Expressions Hair Design v. Schneiderman, contributing real-world expertise to a landmark U.S. Supreme Court case. In March 2017, the Supreme Court held that state "no-surcharge" laws restrict constitutionally protected speech. Now, there are specific policies or procedures that you need to follow to be compliant with the law. It's important that you check with the state's Attorney General's office to make sure you understand your obligations or work with a processor who ensures compliance. |
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Posted: 3/8/2024 4:08:39 PM EDT
[#25]
Quoted: Not ours, we've already had that conversation with them Quoted: https://staxpayments.com/blog/legal-charge-credit-card-fee/ The Legality of Credit Card Fees The question you're probably asking right now is: Can merchants charge a credit card fee legally? The answer is: yes, if your business operates in states where it is legal to do so. As of the time of publishing this, the practice of imposing additional fees on credit card transactions (i.e., credit card surcharges) is prohibited in only three U.S. locations: Connecticut, Massachusetts, and Puerto Rico. For a long time, credit card fees were prohibited by federal law. This was overturned in a class-action lawsuit against Visa and Mastercard in 2013, which awarded merchants the right to pass credit card processing fees onto consumers. Since then, many U.S. states have changed the law to make credit card surcharges legal, or have suspended laws pending other lawsuits. It's worth noting CardX played a pivotal role in advocating for merchant affordability and consumer fairness. CardX was the only solution provider to file a brief in Expressions Hair Design v. Schneiderman, contributing real-world expertise to a landmark U.S. Supreme Court case. In March 2017, the Supreme Court held that state "no-surcharge" laws restrict constitutionally protected speech. Now, there are specific policies or procedures that you need to follow to be compliant with the law. It's important that you check with the state's Attorney General's office to make sure you understand your obligations or work with a processor who ensures compliance. I was referring to the merchant agreement between the merchant and the card company (not necessarily the card issuer) Visa |
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Posted: 3/9/2024 9:22:40 AM EDT
[#26]
It is illegal in Oklahoma to charge extra for credit card purchases, but many stores still do it.
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Posted: 3/9/2024 9:32:56 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It used to be a violation of the credit card agreement to charge customers the 3%. Which is when the discount wording was most commonly used. Now it is a mix of "discount" and "convenience fee". |
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Posted: 3/9/2024 9:40:23 AM EDT
[#28]
I've always said that retailers should have cash and credit prices. All things equal I'm going to use credit to get my rewards. If there's a discount for cash that's greater than my reward value then I'm more than happy to pay cash.
This practice has become more prevalent due to the recent inflationary environment. It's a way for retailers to not raise advertised prices but cover some costs. I personally have always charged nearly everything but have been quite a bit of cash lately, especially at restaurants. |
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Posted: 3/9/2024 9:47:06 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is illegal in Oklahoma to charge extra for credit card purchases, but many stores still do it. Oklahoma AG disagrees: https://www.oag.ok.gov/opinions/ag-opinion-2019-12 |
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Posted: 3/9/2024 2:51:24 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've always said that retailers should have cash and credit prices. All things equal I'm going to use credit to get my rewards. If there's a discount for cash that's greater than my reward value then I'm more than happy to pay cash. I agree. Building the price of CC fees into all transactions is a worse deal for the customer. |
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Posted: 3/9/2024 4:16:59 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've got a couple brick and mortar stores that offer a discount with cash payment. Use a card (credit or debit) and you incur a 4% markup...i.e. the "full" price. Of course you are declaring that cash and paying your fair share in taxes? |
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Posted: 3/9/2024 4:23:56 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Of course you are declaring that cash and paying your fair share in taxes? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I've got a couple brick and mortar stores that offer a discount with cash payment. Use a card (credit or debit) and you incur a 4% markup...i.e. the "full" price. Of course you are declaring that cash and paying your fair share in taxes? Communist Fed bois be like(feminine voice): "you should pay more taxes"  |
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Posted: 3/9/2024 4:25:48 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There is a local Mexican restaurant that charges 6% extra if you pay with a credit card........crazy. A Mexican place that prefers cash, you say? 
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Posted: 3/9/2024 5:00:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Smart People will use a CC that offers cash back on purchases. Most often, my cash back on a transaction will mostly (or fully) offset the fee at the vendor, whether that "fee" is added separately or built-in. And I still get the protection and convenience of using a CC. |
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Posted: 3/10/2024 4:02:45 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Must be a local thing. So far I have not ran across any local retailers in my area doing that. Maybe I am lucky? It is becoming common here at many of the locally owned restaurants, but I haven’t noticed it anywhere else. I’m not sure why unless those are the only locally owned businesses I frequent, and larger companies don’t do it. |
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Posted: 3/10/2024 4:22:10 AM EDT
[#36]
The local motorcycle dealership has a 5% off retail prices if a customer asks for a discount while using a card.
I get 10% off plus no paying the CC card fee if I use cash. |
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Posted: 3/10/2024 4:52:53 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is illegal in Oklahoma to charge extra for credit card purchases, but many stores still do it. I can think of a few that do. |
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Posted: 3/10/2024 6:02:27 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It used to be a violation of the credit card agreement to charge customers the 3%. Pretty sure it still is but they still do it. |
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Posted: 3/10/2024 6:04:58 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It can be, but it can also be much more. The actual interchange fees vary by the specific type of card being run. Higher "tier" cards that come with more rewards and other benefits to the cardholder tend to have higher fees, to offset the cost of providing these benefits. Other cards with minimal benefits may have a very low fee. Debit cards tend to have extremely low fees, to the point of being negligible on everyday transactions. Many retailers use payment processors that charge flat rates - the processing companies betting on the difference in rates, hoping that most cards will be low fee types. However, you can also use processors that charge interchange plus - meaning the true transaction fee plus a much smaller amount to the processor. These are far more advantageous if you do have mainly low fee cards being processed, but are harder to get and may have minimum volume requirements. |
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Posted: 3/10/2024 9:11:40 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pretty sure it still is but they still do it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: It used to be a violation of the credit card agreement to charge customers the 3%. Pretty sure it still is but they still do it. Only if your business is in Connecticut, Massachusetts or Puerto Rico. https://www.nadapayments.com/blog/are-credit-card-surcharges-illegal-heres-everything-you-need-to-know |
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Posted: 3/10/2024 10:35:33 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Retailers, who are not fools (most who stay in business are not) are good at making a profit on everything. The smartest retailers build the price into the cost of goods, because now it's hidden... Do you really believe that's to the consumers benefit? LOL. Then the card/bank gets their cut. Do you think that's coming out of the retailers bottom line in most cases? You think Amazon and Walmart ate that cost of doing business? I got news, you are paying for all of it. I would be amazed if the resulting effect of the cost increase to products is ever less than 5%. 7-10% is probably much more accurate. A good reward card gets what 3% rewards on most things, maybe a little more on some specific transactions. These are all generalities, as some cards have higher fees and rewards than others. Some are free to the user, others have user fees as well. At the end of the day, it is only retards who think they got a good deal and celebrate that the bank gives them cash back. They probably still got fucked out of 3-9% for doing commerce in the credit society. As you pointed out, there's not much fighting it for the average person. As a society, we have been tricked into it. So you might as well use a rewards card anywhere they don't offer a better discount or charge a fee for card use. Pretending that extensive use of credit cards for routine purchase is a good thing, or not significantly different than cash... Well that is just fucking retarded. Carrying a balance and paying interest on a card is tripling down on retarded, but a lot of people do it. The end result is banks and credit card companies get rich. Smart retailers make more money. We get some minor convenience, at the cost of privacy and an extra 3-9% on top of everything. And the undisciplined are tempted every day to spend more than they should. What a fucking retarded system. Pretending that there are no costs associated with cash is also "fucking retarded". |
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Posted: 3/10/2024 10:36:55 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Doubt So your theory is this: 1. I spend $10,000 for appliances at Lowes. 2. Lowe's pays Visa 1/2% for the transaction $50. 3. My bank gives me 1% back on the transaction $100. Most cards these days give at least 1% cash back. How are the credit cards and banks making money off of transactions by charging less than 1%? Why do they even bother to offer their own store credit cards, if other cards charge such a low fee? You think the transaction fee is the only source of revenue for credit card companies? |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:03:56 AM EDT
[#43]
Way back in the previous century it was common for gas stations to have different prices for cash vs credit, so this is hardly something new.
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Posted: 3/11/2024 2:14:53 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Way back in the previous century it was common for gas stations to have different prices for cash vs credit, so this is hardly something new. Sinclair still does this. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 4:09:18 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Sinclair still does this. So does the Flying J just south of me in VA. |
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Posted: 3/11/2024 4:39:32 PM EDT
[#46]
I offer a 3 percent cash/check discount. Cost of business as a small business owner.
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