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Posted: 12/19/2018 11:42:42 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ohio screwed up when it let double-dipping come in ---you could retire after 20-30 years in, start drawing your pension, stay "retired" for 30 days, and then get your old job back. Public employers thought it was great because they got off the hook for the retirement benefits and would often pay less than the wages you made before. Big PROBLEM--the retirement funds counted on the money the replacement hires would contribute--but with double-dippers they do not get that back. Also, Obamacare raised costs through the roof. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 11:43:31 AM EDT
[#2]
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Stop letting 40 year olds retire with full benefits. I have met a couple who could retire to poverty or get another job. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 11:44:24 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have NEVER met a 40 year old who could retire with benefits. I have met a couple who could retire to poverty or get another job. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 11:47:12 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Fire/police jobs are a young mans game. In the grand scheme of life that’s not “old” but for police or FF it’s damn near ancient! |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 11:48:55 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The military retirement system is managed properly and is not an inordinate burden to taxpayers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Isn't that what the military has? 
The DOD has literally trillions missing from the books. They couldn't even complete a full audit last year due to how badly mismanaged their accounting was. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 11:50:01 AM EDT
[#6]
“No dollar amounts have even been discussed,”
then how the fuck do they know this will work out better ???? |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 11:50:48 AM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It’s certainly not 40, like you’re saying Poor bastards hired after 2013 have to be 52 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Boo hoo. Poor bastards hired after 2013 have to be 52 "Poor bastards"? Lol. The rest of the country including many government jobs work a lot longer than that. Cry me a river. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 11:51:49 AM EDT
[#8]
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I think the next cash cow they will be eyeing for slaughter will be retirement income. More people are moving out than in, more people are going on disability, businesses are leaving. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Pretty much this... Buy your own f'n health insurance and stop expecting tax payers to pay for it. While we're at it, kill the taxpayer funded pensions and get a 401k like the rest of us. Plus the automatic 3% COLA every year was another genius move. For the life of me I cannot figure out why the pension system is so in the red... The existing pension law took effect on July 1, 1995. After a 15-year phase-in period, the law requires the State to contribute a level percentage of payroll sufficient to bring the retirement systems’ funded ratios to 90% by FY2045. The State’s funding plan defers a large portion of the required State contributions to future years, which has resulted in growth in the unfunded liability, the estimated benefits not covered by pension assets. Illinois pension funds have consistently ranked as among the worst funded of all the states, including in a recent survey by Bloomberg, which was based on FY2015 data. The five funds’ total unfunded liability stood at almost $19.5 billion, with a combined funded ratio of about 52%, before the law took effect. As discussed here, the total unfunded liability was $126.5 billion as of June 30, 2016 and the combined funded ratio was 39.2%, based on the actuarial value of assets. Besides insufficient State contributions, the unfunded liability has also grown due to changes in actuarial assumptions, poor investment returns and benefit increases, according to COGFA. The following chart shows the retirement systems’ projected total unfunded liability and combined funded ratio from FY2017 to FY2045. The unfunded liability is projected to keep growing through FY2028. Source We have a plan, lofl |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 11:54:52 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have NEVER met a 40 year old who could retire with benefits. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Stop letting 40 year olds retire with full benefits. 
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Posted: 12/19/2018 11:54:56 AM EDT
[#10]
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40? Don’t be dramatic. I have to be 48 to retire  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Stop letting 40 year olds retire with full benefits. When I can start drawing on it is another matter (50 for me). 
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Posted: 12/19/2018 11:56:44 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The DOD has literally trillions missing from the books. They couldn't even complete a full audit last year due to how badly mismanaged their accounting was. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Isn't that what the military has?
The DOD has literally trillions missing from the books. They couldn't even complete a full audit last year due to how badly mismanaged their accounting was. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:02:53 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Am I supposed to be outraged? Because I’m not. In fact it's the only thing that makes sense to me. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:07:15 PM EDT
[#13]
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I don’t know what they have now but I still stand by the statement. Health care is killing our company’s and people are living longer. Unless we have some great breakthroughs in cancer, diabetes and other areas this cannot go on. People will have to work longer. Firemen and police may be a young mans game as some said but there are other jobs they can do in the fire and police service that are not as vigorous and who is to say they cannot do other trades. We are going to change or go broke. People need to look at the Great Depression and decide what it’s going to be. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:10:00 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The audit difficulties stem from the intersection between hardware, real estate, personnel, and money. Money and personnel forecasts are a subset of that, and by themselves are easier to reconcile and keep audit-ready. Do you have any more accounting lessons for me? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Isn't that what the military has?
The DOD has literally trillions missing from the books. They couldn't even complete a full audit last year due to how badly mismanaged their accounting was. $800,000,000,000 and growing in unfunded liabilities isn't a properly managed system. Thus concludes the lesson. 
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:12:30 PM EDT
[#15]
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I can retire at any age once vested. When I can start drawing on it is another matter (50 for me). Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Stop letting 40 year olds retire with full benefits. When I can start drawing on it is another matter (50 for me). |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:17:00 PM EDT
[#16]
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Stop letting 40 year olds retire with full benefits. ETA: isn't yours a medical retirement, and that would just seem to add to the point being made? @extorris |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:19:45 PM EDT
[#17]
I've got 18 years until I'm eligible. I figure we will be on single payer by then.
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:21:41 PM EDT
[#18]
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While I may "know" you I've never met you.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Stop letting 40 year olds retire with full benefits. Quoted:
Isn't yours a medical retirement, and that would just seem to add to the point being made? |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:21:55 PM EDT
[#19]
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I've got 18 years until I'm eligible. I figure we will be on single payer by then. And what is that circle 10 in your your icons |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:23:07 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Eligible right now if I wanted. And what is that circle 10 in your your icons |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:23:33 PM EDT
[#21]
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We had more than a few eligible to retire at 40 until Giuliani raised the age to be hired to 21. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Stop letting 40 year olds retire with full benefits. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:23:56 PM EDT
[#22]
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40? Don’t be dramatic. I have to be 48 to retire Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Stop letting 40 year olds retire with full benefits. I'll make a hell of a lot more where I am now, though. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:29:02 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You think McLegal aliens are free to treat? |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:30:52 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If the agreement 25 or 30 years ago when they signed up was health premiums for life it should stand. Why should they be different? I don't know what your career was but did it entail the possibility of being killed every day? I see your from WI like me. In case you didn't know pension benefits are considered private property rights and can't be touched once you retire in our great state. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:32:30 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: People who retire before they’re 50 can get Medicare? |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:32:36 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pure genius on the part of unions to get the IL Constitution amended to include verbiage that pension benefits cannot be diminished. Plus the automatic 3% COLA every year was another genius move. For the life of me I cannot figure out why the pension system is so in the red... |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:34:39 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just one. $800,000,000,000 and growing in unfunded liabilities isn't a properly managed system. Thus concludes the lesson. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Isn't that what the military has?
The DOD has literally trillions missing from the books. They couldn't even complete a full audit last year due to how badly mismanaged their accounting was. $800,000,000,000 and growing in unfunded liabilities isn't a properly managed system. Thus concludes the lesson. Now maybe you can educate us about your previous statement of how the government will inevitably seize IRAs, and how the government will prevent the markets from imploding when they do so. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:38:50 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
“No dollar amounts have even been discussed,” then how the fuck do they know this will work out better ???? |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:40:36 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah that was a pretty good call. We try and save like it’s not going to be there. I consider it a bonus if it is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Let’s just hope your pension is still intact when you get there. Mine was looking iffy as fuck (74% funded) so I pulled the eject handle with 11yrs in. We try and save like it’s not going to be there. I consider it a bonus if it is. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:42:30 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Just one. $800,000,000,000 and growing in unfunded liabilities isn't a properly managed system. Thus concludes the lesson. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Isn't that what the military has?
The DOD has literally trillions missing from the books. They couldn't even complete a full audit last year due to how badly mismanaged their accounting was. $800,000,000,000 and growing in unfunded liabilities isn't a properly managed system. Thus concludes the lesson. That same report states the unfunded portion is scheduled to be fully amortized by FY25. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:43:48 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love it how Arfcom loves to bitch about police and fire retirements as being too generous but in the same breath will defend the 20 year military retirement like it’s a model system. There is a reason they are pushing the BRS on us. For the record, I am hoping to double dip on both the .mil and fire pension end. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Currently the fund (I guess the DOD retirement fund?) is facing close to $800 billion in unfunded liabilities. There is so much of a concern they are recommending major changes to the current system. Report from Sept 2018 There is a reason they are pushing the BRS on us. For the record, I am hoping to double dip on both the .mil and fire pension end. Now your Air Force records clerk or dental hygienist, sure, thirty five years is do able. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:44:33 PM EDT
[#32]
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Name a cancer and firefighters are more likely to get it than the general public. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I wonder if private insurance policy pricing will be biased against firefighters given their testicular cancer rates from all of the shit they’re exposed to on the job. Save lives then hung out to dry. Kinda fucked up. Googled for backup and found this.. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/12594776/ |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:46:05 PM EDT
[#33]
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No, it's for people who are at a realistic retirement age. do you believe someone who works 25+ years shouldn't be able to retire? |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:47:12 PM EDT
[#34]
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Happens all the time in the private sector. I worked for 37 years, now retired...my company provided health insurance goes up every year, and could be cancelled at any time. Is it somehow different because I'm not a cop or FF? I don't like what is happening to them, but why should they be any different? |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:48:08 PM EDT
[#35]
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Now it's time to do the same with teachers! 
Bring on the flames. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:49:31 PM EDT
[#36]
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Well they do get a stipend young firefighters: "Good luck old guys. Get on the iceflow" |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:54:25 PM EDT
[#37]
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Isn't that what the military has? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Before it’s over we will all be paying cash for Doctors and medicine and insurance will be unaffordable. It is unrealistic for private citizens to work till they die to pay for health care for public employees who retire at 55 years or less age. Some only working for 20 years and then collecting a life pension and healthcare. It cannot continue. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:55:48 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Went right OVER YOUR HEAD. I am 50-55, I am a firefighter, and he basically called me an old guy. Do you get it now??? ETA: Yea I know I am 27 in, just more FYI 
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Posted: 12/19/2018 12:57:58 PM EDT
[#39]
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"realistic" according to who? do you believe someone who works 25+ years shouldn't be able to retire? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No, it's for people who are at a realistic retirement age. do you believe someone who works 25+ years shouldn't be able to retire? If it were a private sector job then I don't care either way. Their company, their rules. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:14:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know now lots of peoples pensions have gotten screwed over. Fire and police are not special golden boys. But in the course of my career I have repetitively come into contact with chemicals and situations that have a cumulative effect on my health. I dont expect you to understand if you haven't been educated on it. Bottom line is these conditions can potentially make retirement years hard. And those retirement years come earlier for most because their body gets used up. So your medicare comment can be null and void for many as in their later years many can no longer pass the physical ability test. So have electrical workers who work on hot lines carrying 30 or 60+ kilovolts which could kill them instantly if they screw up. I suppose that's better than a life of disability? What about steel workers handling the pickling process? Public sector employees, specifically police and fire, and especially military, aren't somehow special and entitled to "more". If there aren't enough people applying for the jobs, the pay or benefits will have to increase. But stop preaching this shit about that they are somehow sacred cows. I do agree with people however that if they enter into a private contract to provide certain compensation (including insurance coverage such as in retirement), and the employee holds up his end of the contract, than the employer should be holding up their end too. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:24:09 PM EDT
[#41]
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I told my wife she is going to have to work long after I retire so she can carry our insurance. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:27:48 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I’ve just just over 20 years in a “cruiser” now and can’t fucking fathom the thought of doing 20 more years...even 10 more. Surely there is something you can do? |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:28:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "realistic" according to who? do you believe someone who works 25+ years shouldn't be able to retire? |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:30:13 PM EDT
[#44]
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A pension without guaranteed heath benefits is junk. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:30:31 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What private sector jobs would allow you to retire so early, unless you created your own wealth? Working 40 years in an office job is probably equivalent to working 2 years in a cruiser though!! |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:39:47 PM EDT
[#46]
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Eligible right now if I wanted. And what is that circle 10 in your your icons Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I've got 18 years until I'm eligible. I figure we will be on single payer by then. And what is that circle 10 in your your icons |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:40:09 PM EDT
[#47]
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Didn't the NJ residents vote in Phil Murphy and his gun banning, illegal alien loving ass? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Pretty much this... Buy your own f'n health insurance and stop expecting tax payers to pay for it. While we're at it, kill the taxpayer funded pensions and get a 401k like the rest of us. Plus the automatic 3% COLA every year was another genius move. For the life of me I cannot figure out why the pension system is so in the red... |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:40:34 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And? So have electrical workers who work on hot lines carrying 30 or 60+ kilovolts which could kill them instantly if they screw up. I suppose that's better than a life of disability? What about steel workers handling the pickling process? Public sector employees, specifically police and fire, and especially military, aren't somehow special and entitled to "more". If there aren't enough people applying for the jobs, the pay or benefits will have to increase. But stop preaching this shit about that they are somehow sacred cows. I do agree with people however that if they enter into a private contract to provide certain compensation (including insurance coverage such as in retirement), and the employee holds up his end of the contract, than the employer should be holding up their end too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I know now lots of peoples pensions have gotten screwed over. Fire and police are not special golden boys. But in the course of my career I have repetitively come into contact with chemicals and situations that have a cumulative effect on my health. I dont expect you to understand if you haven't been educated on it. Bottom line is these conditions can potentially make retirement years hard. And those retirement years come earlier for most because their body gets used up. So your medicare comment can be null and void for many as in their later years many can no longer pass the physical ability test. So have electrical workers who work on hot lines carrying 30 or 60+ kilovolts which could kill them instantly if they screw up. I suppose that's better than a life of disability? What about steel workers handling the pickling process? Public sector employees, specifically police and fire, and especially military, aren't somehow special and entitled to "more". If there aren't enough people applying for the jobs, the pay or benefits will have to increase. But stop preaching this shit about that they are somehow sacred cows. I do agree with people however that if they enter into a private contract to provide certain compensation (including insurance coverage such as in retirement), and the employee holds up his end of the contract, than the employer should be holding up their end too. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:40:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Under FERS, fed.gov offers Early Out Retirement to some a limited number of agencies allowing retirement with an immediately payable pension and lifetime health insurance as early as age 50 with just 20 years of service and these are not law enforcement agencies.
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:41:02 PM EDT
[#50]
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What do you propose they do when the fund runs dry? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Happens all the time in the private sector. I worked for 37 years, now retired...my company provided health insurance goes up every year, and could be cancelled at any time. Is it somehow different because I'm not a cop or FF? I don't like what is happening to them, but why should they be any different? 
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