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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:42:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well, they have an unlimited source of money.. for one. The jury is still out on whether the new pension plan will be a winning proposition. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:44:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No Idea. I don't work in that sector so I don't act like an expert on it. Unlike some people here, on the vice versa. Working 40 years in an office job is probably equivalent to working 2 years in a cruiser though!! 
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:44:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Most people don't retire from the military anyway. BRS saved a small amount but doesn't represent a major change in military retirement liabilities-it was primarily instituted to appease people bitching about not getting anything if they got out before 20. Remember that BRS still pays out at 2.4% (edit: might actually be 2.0%) of base pay as opposed to 2.5% of base pay for the old system. But yeah, when DoD "listens to the troops" and gives them what they say they want, DoD will do it in a way that saves the bureaucracy money. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: lol. So that’s why they are pushing the BRS on us right? |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:45:23 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Again, no. The fund is healthy and the "unfunded liabilities" is the amount held over before the fund was created, when military retirement came directly from the Treasury. The "unfunded liabilities" will be paid off by 2025. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Currently the fund (I guess the DOD retirement fund?) is facing close to $800 billion in unfunded liabilities. There is so much of a concern they are recommending major changes to the current system. Report from Sept 2018 |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:45:34 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your second sentence contradicts your first. Are you really that dense? |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:48:28 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well no shit. That was the point Are you really that dense? This whole troll thread is about losing pension healthcare. Who in the private sector hasn’t? You want to be similar and different at the same time. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 1:58:28 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, I would like to answer the question, but I don't know what your career was before reitrement. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Happens all the time in the private sector. I worked for 37 years, now retired...my company provided health insurance goes up every year, and could be cancelled at any time. Is it somehow different because I'm not a cop or FF? I don't like what is happening to them, but why should they be any different? I was able to retire with my full pension (Not paid for by taxpayers) at 48 (but worked 7 more years) after 30 years and retiree medical until the company decides to say F off. So far, so good, although premiums do go up every year as do the deductibles. I took my pension as a lump sum at 55 to insulate myself from the company. I'm not complaining-as I was free to get a different job at any time-as everyone else is. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 2:05:56 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lol This whole troll thread is about losing pension healthcare. Who in the private sector hasn’t? You want to be similar and different at the same time. Are you retired? |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 2:06:57 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Are you over 48? Are you retired? |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 2:11:01 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why does that matter? |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 2:17:41 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Are they wrong in their almost trillion dollar unfunded liabilities prediction? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: lol. So that’s why they are pushing the BRS on us right? |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 2:19:46 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Then why the major changes requested? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Currently the fund (I guess the DOD retirement fund?) is facing close to $800 billion in unfunded liabilities. There is so much of a concern they are recommending major changes to the current system. Report from Sept 2018 |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 2:20:39 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bingo. Lots of retired fed workers doing the same fucking thing. It is a scam, and should be illegal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Ohio screwed up when it let double-dipping come in ---you could retire after 20-30 years in, start drawing your pension, stay "retired" for 30 days, and then get your old job back. Public employers thought it was great because they got off the hook for the retirement benefits and would often pay less than the wages you made before. Big PROBLEM--the retirement funds counted on the money the replacement hires would contribute--but with double-dippers they do not get that back. Also, Obamacare raised costs through the roof. Fully vested with city PD..retired at homicide investigation pay. vested US Customs and Border Patrol Then finished up with States Attorneys office as investigator. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 2:23:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Um, who cares about NJ when talking about IL. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Pretty much this... Buy your own f'n health insurance and stop expecting tax payers to pay for it. While we're at it, kill the taxpayer funded pensions and get a 401k like the rest of us. Plus the automatic 3% COLA every year was another genius move. For the life of me I cannot figure out why the pension system is so in the red... |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 2:24:02 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: old guys at the FD seem fairly common It's not uncommon to see a 50-55 year old driving an engine for a FD IMO, "firefighting" jobs should be designed as short-term employment for younger people, not stay-in-the-system-till-retirement tenure. Featherbed positions is what they are. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 2:32:03 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No Idea. I don't work in that sector so I don't act like an expert on it. Unlike some people here, on the vice versa. Working 40 years in an office job is probably equivalent to working 2 years in a cruiser though!! |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 2:39:57 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm not sure they should be called firefighters. Isn't it around 80% medical work? IMO, "firefighting" jobs should be designed as short-term employment for younger people, not stay-in-the-system-till-retirement tenure. Featherbed positions is what they are. So yea, they should still be called Firefighters... |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 2:40:34 PM EDT
[#18]
The OAPFF told me that since health insurance has gone pear shaped post Obama the end game is to lobby for medicare at 50 for OP&F pensioners.
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Posted: 12/19/2018 3:17:01 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Because they could retire much earlier with a sweet health plan. Most in the private sector work into their 60's before retirement. Having someone work for 30 years at a pd, and draw a pension for 25-30 years is not sustainable. That is reality. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 3:25:12 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Thanks Obama. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 3:31:30 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
40? Don't be dramatic. I have to be 48 to retire  Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Stop letting 40 year olds retire with full benefits. 
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Posted: 12/19/2018 3:51:04 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No Idea. I don't work in that sector so I don't act like an expert on it. Unlike some people here, on the vice versa. Working 40 years in an office job is probably equivalent to working 2 years in a cruiser though!! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: What private sector jobs would allow you to retire so early, unless you created your own wealth? Working 40 years in an office job is probably equivalent to working 2 years in a cruiser though!!  
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Posted: 12/19/2018 3:53:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here lies the answer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Thanks Obama. 
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Posted: 12/19/2018 4:08:05 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm not sure they should be called firefighters. Isn't it around 80% medical work? IMO, "firefighting" jobs should be designed as short-term employment for younger people, not stay-in-the-system-till-retirement tenure. Featherbed positions is what they are. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: old guys at the FD seem fairly common It's not uncommon to see a 50-55 year old driving an engine for a FD IMO, "firefighting" jobs should be designed as short-term employment for younger people, not stay-in-the-system-till-retirement tenure. Featherbed positions is what they are. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 4:59:18 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL in your opinion....LOL I have a buddy that still works for a FD in a city of about ~40,000. He says he might go on a half dozen actual fires a year, if that I just looked up the stats for his station for 2017 (not the whole department just his station) 20 fire runs 1062 ems runs. I’m sure you know it better than anyone Lug. Modern fire departments are overburdened with bullshit “I have a headache take me to the hospital” and “it’s 3am my ankle is sore take me to the hospital” I wish there was a way to see how many of those ems runs were transported critical/life threatening and how many were transported just because the person didn’t want to drive themselves |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 5:19:15 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If he just means the term “firefighters” needs to go away, it’s kind of hard to disagree with him I have a buddy that still works for a FD in a city of about ~40,000. He says he might go on a half dozen actual fires a year, if that I just looked up the stats for his station for 2017 (not the whole department just his station) 20 fire runs 1062 ems runs. I’m sure you know it better than anyone Lug. Modern fire departments are overburdened with bullshit “I have a headache take me to the hospital” and “it’s 3am my ankle is sore take me to the hospital” I wish there was a way to see how many of those ems runs were transported critical/life threatening and how many were transported just because the person didn’t want to drive themselves Too many stations, too many employees, too high a portion of senior employees, too high price benefits packages. But every levy all the goodie-goodies are out "Vote Yes on Proposition 87" pay higher taxes, give more money to government employees, increase the unfunded pension liability by hiring more, yada, yada. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 5:38:15 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"realistic" according to who? do you believe someone who works 25+ years shouldn't be able to retire? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No, it's for people who are at a realistic retirement age. do you believe someone who works 25+ years shouldn't be able to retire? You think taxpayers & businesses should cover 40 years of retirement for 25 years of service? Math seems a bit fucky on that one, but I'm sure a gov't actuary can make it work. ;-) |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 5:42:38 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If he just means the term “firefighters” needs to go away, it’s kind of hard to disagree with him I have a buddy that still works for a FD in a city of about ~40,000. He says he might go on a half dozen actual fires a year, if that I just looked up the stats for his station for 2017 (not the whole department just his station) 20 fire runs 1062 ems runs. I’m sure you know it better than anyone Lug. Modern fire departments are overburdened with bullshit “I have a headache take me to the hospital” and “it’s 3am my ankle is sore take me to the hospital” I wish there was a way to see how many of those ems runs were transported critical/life threatening and how many were transported just because the person didn’t want to drive themselves https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17wqbXR8nT0 |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 6:35:46 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep. 23,000 total responses. 120 actual structure fires. $40,000,000 annual budget. $5,000,000 fire losses on $22,000,000 assessed value structures. The budget is more than even the assessed value of the structures that burned. It would be cheaper to let the buildings burn to white ash, and probably be doing the owners a favor. It's basically a racket. Pickup drunks, druggies, hypochondriacs and old people who've fallen and can't get up. Too many stations, too many employees, too high a portion of senior employees, too high price benefits packages. But every levy all the goodie-goodies are out "Vote Yes on Proposition 87" pay higher taxes, give more money to government employees, increase the unfunded pension liability by hiring more, yada, yada. Senior employees, shows how clueless you are on the subject. You know nothing about benefits packages. You see some headlines about certain places with "goodie-goodies" and think it is standard. Clueless, and I will not change your mind. I know this because you have already proven you are not willing to seek true answers of a cross section, and would rather cherry pick the ones that make your case. yada, yada, yada |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 6:37:05 PM EDT
[#30]
I know two retired Dayton P.D. Officers that have went back to work because of it.
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Posted: 12/19/2018 6:38:04 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Depends on how much they've saved? You think taxpayers & businesses should cover 40 years of retirement for 25 years of service? Math seems a bit fucky on that one, but I'm sure a gov't actuary can make it work. ;-) Lots of people think they got it figured out for every fire dept in America though. They are all sweetheart deals. LOL |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 8:56:32 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Before it’s over we will all be paying cash for Doctors and medicine and insurance will be unaffordable. It is unrealistic for private citizens to work till they die to pay for health care for public employees who retire at 55 years or less age. Some only working for 20 years and then collecting a life pension and healthcare. It cannot continue. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 9:11:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Only an idiot would:
-Fail to recognize the immense benefit brought to the table every single day by the seasoned, older guys. -Use run numbers as the yardstick to measure FD productivity. -Get cranked up over the simple term, "firefighter". If you disagree with me though I have good news, you most likely have a promising career in FD upper management or local government administration. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 9:29:06 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Under the old military pension system, less than 5 % made it to a pension, they were setting aside money for everyone currently in uniform, and they felt tht they had to tweak the system so that those who didn't make it to 20 came away with some form of participation trophy. The jury is still out on whether the new pension plan will be a winning proposition. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Well, they have an unlimited source of money.. for one. The jury is still out on whether the new pension plan will be a winning proposition. Kharn |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 9:30:45 PM EDT
[#35]
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Posted: 12/19/2018 9:35:56 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
44 for me Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Stop letting 40 year olds retire with full benefits. 
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Posted: 12/19/2018 9:39:44 PM EDT
[#37]
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My 30 years will be in at age 53. Wont be able to afford HC so I'll work until 65, by the time 65 comes around I figure it will actually be age 70. So I plan on doing about 47 years at the S.O.  |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 9:51:39 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’ve just just over 20 years in a “cruiser” now and can’t fucking fathom the thought of doing 20 more years...even 10 more. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted: Yep, why so many guys are still working when they really should have retired. We have no healthcare with our pension in WA I am just about sick of the customers, employees, insurance, regulations and taxes. My knees are shot and while I have learned to work smarter I hate it every fucking day. But this is what I do and I am good at it. I have 6 years 6 months till full SS if it’s still there but I just about have to work until Medicare at 65. I could probably retire now if not for the medical. But the way things are going I feel I should keep going just in case. |
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Posted: 12/19/2018 11:34:44 PM EDT
[#39]
I cannot remember which state but there was a recent ruling about state constitutional pensions. The court in this state said that reducing future pension plans during a contract talk was constitutional because that promise only lasts as long as the contract. So in year 1-3 the pension may promise $1000/month. Next contract for years 4-6 might drop it to $800/month. Next contract it drops again... and so on.
Fast forward to retirement. The retiree will get $1000 in his retirement for years 1-3 then drop to $800 for years 4-6 and so on. At least the language in this particular state's constitution was not strong enough to remove the wiggle room. |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 12:51:36 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
"realistic" according to who? do you believe someone who works 25+ years shouldn't be able to retire? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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No, it's for people who are at a realistic retirement age. do you believe someone who works 25+ years shouldn't be able to retire? 
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Posted: 12/20/2018 3:22:05 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If he just means the term “firefighters” needs to go away, it’s kind of hard to disagree with him I have a buddy that still works for a FD in a city of about ~40,000. He says he might go on a half dozen actual fires a year, if that I just looked up the stats for his station for 2017 (not the whole department just his station) 20 fire runs 1062 ems runs. I’m sure you know it better than anyone Lug. Modern fire departments are overburdened with bullshit “I have a headache take me to the hospital” and “it’s 3am my ankle is sore take me to the hospital” I wish there was a way to see how many of those ems runs were transported critical/life threatening and how many were transported just because the person didn’t want to drive themselves There are however most of he calls are one you or I wouldn’t call emergencies, but are more than just someone not wanting to drive. In my old AO the abusers were pretty low. To the point where we all knew them by name. |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 6:45:14 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Defined contribution helps the guys who bail at 15 years because they don't like whoever wins an election, and establishes very clear costs to the taxpayer. Kharn |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 6:53:21 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If someone leaves the military just because of who sits in the Oval Office, they're a fool. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Defined contribution helps the guys who bail at 15 years because they don't like whoever wins an election, and establishes very clear costs to the taxpayer. Kharn |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 7:00:50 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
By far! Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You're on a roll tonight, BOSS.  |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 8:21:26 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AT&T did that to us years ago. They're called HRAs (healthcare reimbursement accounts).  |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 11:10:14 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
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Stop letting 40 year olds retire with full benefits.
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Posted: 12/20/2018 11:22:35 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If someone leaves the military just because of who sits in the Oval Office, they're a fool. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Defined contribution helps the guys who bail at 15 years because they don't like whoever wins an election, and establishes very clear costs to the taxpayer. Kharn Kharn |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 7:26:30 PM EDT
[#48]
I read today that groups of people are filing lawsuits over this against the pension board.
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Posted: 12/21/2018 7:37:54 PM EDT
[#49]
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I read today that groups of people are filing lawsuits over this against the pension board. i'll have a coke. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 7:45:52 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Or excessive SHARP training, unpopular/unjust wars, asshole 1SG, bad PCS options, didn't pick up, wife puts her foot down, etc? Why should 20 be the winner-take-all number instead of a 401k system? Kharn With only low single digits getting to 20 years, there was no reason to ditch the traditional pension. Sorry for the peacetime service members who bailed out before 20 and thought that they were owed something. Sorry for the ones who thought that in joining they could dictate the conflicts they would be willing to participate in |
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