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Posted: 10/4/2011 11:16:42 PM EDT
[#1]
Green Leader over to Zambian air traffic controller
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0ftw4bQq6g |
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Posted: 10/4/2011 11:39:05 PM EDT
[#2]
Quoted:
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The US military STILL hasn't digested the Rhodesian military's lessons for dealing with insurgents. They are frankly light-years ahead of us. You should reread the part where their war ends in defeat. Yeah I don't get GD's fascination with the mighty short short warriors of apartheid. I guess the FALs and that poster. Rhodesia was one of the first sacrifices to the God of multiculturalism. Sadly, the more you feed this God, the more it wants to eat, and now it's looking at all of Western Civilization with very hungry eyes. |
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Posted: 10/5/2011 5:47:06 AM EDT
[#3]
Quoted:
There is The New Rhodesian Forum online: The New Rhodesian Forum There you'll find a great board topic "Tools of the Trade" which focuses on militaria, weapons, etc. 
Good find! |
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Posted: 10/5/2011 5:59:28 AM EDT
[#4]
Quoted: Quoted: Who want's in?  http://www.aaauctionszw.com/Dakota_3708.html Jesus that's tempting. "Emile! Emile!"  |
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Posted: 10/5/2011 6:28:41 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Who want's in? http://www.aaauctionszw.com/Dakota_3708.html Jesus that's tempting. "Emile! Emile!" http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e6/Wildgeese.jpg fantastic movie |
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Posted: 10/5/2011 6:38:10 AM EDT
[#6]
Quoted:
From a demographic standpoint Rhodesia was going to be screwed but if you read Bitterharvest, which admittedly was full of Ian thumping his own chest, you get the impressions they were bringing the black population into the government as fast as possible. The whites knew it would take time to educate and develop a black middle class, black bureaucrats, black judiciary etc. Just handing the keys to government to people that lived in mud huts was not a recipe for success. . See: Ex-Belgian Congo and a bunch of other places for citations to the last bit. Somebody actually learned from the '60s. |
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Posted: 10/5/2011 6:39:33 AM EDT
[#7]
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Posted: 10/5/2011 6:44:33 AM EDT
[#8]
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Posted: 10/6/2011 1:07:37 PM EDT
[#9]
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White totalitarian government in majority black country at/after the black civil rights movement in the US. If it had been one tribe/family/group of Turks fending off a larger group of of a different tribe/family/group of Turks I don't doubt that all kinds of guys looking suspiciously like either Harvard grads or former Marines would have been all over with briefcases full of money or rifles. Nobody would have cared.
Quoted:
Pointing out that the Rhodesian government was doomed means I like Mugabe.  You think Reagan could have gotten the US behind "We are going to help the brave communist fighting white government of Rhodesia fight the african Soviet dupes so be prepared for lots of film footage of black people holding signs about wanting to vote being beat, bit by dogs and blasted with tear gas, and while we are going ensure they don't get to vote, with airborne troops if necessary, rest assured we are only doing so to fight Communism" ? It would have been political suicide. You referred to Mugabe as seeking "majority rule," not I. I can't read your mind, only your argument. As I've noted, direct support WASN'T required, but the end to interference that was supporting communism was needed. I remember the political flack that Reagan took for his stand against communism in Central America, and it would have been the same. Again, the hypothetical you're positing has no small number of issues with it, so lets circle back to facts... The US supported no small number of non-democratic authoritarian governments from 1945-1990. What makes the Rhodies different than the Turks, Greeks, South Koreans, Taiwanese, et. al? I think you missed something Quoted:
Contrary to some prevalent propaganda, there was no apartheid in Rhodesia. Far from having racial segregation, Rhodesian society was integrated on many levels. There were no separate cinemas, restaurants or municipal swimming pools, etc Many people are surprised to hear that there was also no colour bar to the ballot. Rhodesia had a qualified franchise whereby those with the required educational, or property ownership qualifications could register to vote....While the Rhodesian authorities were encouraging greater participation in the electoral process for Black Rhodesians, the Marxist terrorists were murdering Black candidates and those who took part in the electoral process. Black Rhodesian Zimbabweans had it a lot better back then then they do now... Rhodesia's income, education and property ownership requirements to vote in various classes were about as race blind as an Alabama Poll Tax. Then again if you were black and lived in the tribal trust lands you had local black governance. Not nearly as one sided as you want to make it out to be. It certainly was FAR from South African apartheid. |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 1:16:25 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 10/6/2011 1:29:15 PM EDT
[#11]
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Posted: 10/6/2011 1:38:54 PM EDT
[#12]
"Dad! I'm going to the backyard to snap in!" "Okay, son! Watch out for the terrs!" "Okay!" |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 1:41:53 PM EDT
[#13]
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Posted: 10/6/2011 1:53:33 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Quoted:
The US military STILL hasn't digested the Rhodesian military's lessons for dealing with insurgents. They are frankly light-years ahead of us. You should reread the part where their war ends in defeat. Only because they ran out of bullets. |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 1:54:41 PM EDT
[#15]
I'm fairly sure that only whites were conscripted into the Security Forces and that every black Rhodesian in uniform was a volunteer. |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 2:04:51 PM EDT
[#16]
Pictures of the capital, Salisbury
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Posted: 10/6/2011 2:22:10 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: I'm fairly sure that only whites were conscripted into the Security Forces and that every black Rhodesian in uniform was a volunteer. I believe you are right, but I'm thinking that Indians were also conscripted could be wrong. The RAR have a very valorous history outside the Bush War. |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 2:28:49 PM EDT
[#18]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The US military STILL hasn't digested the Rhodesian military's lessons for dealing with insurgents. They are frankly light-years ahead of us. You should reread the part where their war ends in defeat. Only because they ran out of bullets. Only because they were sold right the hell out by fuckers like Jimmy Carter. Rhodesia was sold out in the name of diversity the US the UK the rest of Europe and eventually after enough pressure South Africa. But hey they are so much better off under Bob Mugabe Africa for Africans and all that. |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 2:40:31 PM EDT
[#19]
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Posted: 10/6/2011 2:45:19 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted: Quoted: There is The New Rhodesian Forum online: The New Rhodesian Forum There you'll find a great board topic "Tools of the Trade" which focuses on militaria, weapons, etc. Good find! I came here to post that. I joined it a few days ago and I told them I had gotten interested in Rhodesia form a thread on a gun board. They said for y'all all to come over and poke around! There's some real FAL goodness going on!  |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 2:47:14 PM EDT
[#21]
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Posted: 10/6/2011 3:03:00 PM EDT
[#22]
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Posted: 10/6/2011 3:16:04 PM EDT
[#23]
Badasses!!!
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Posted: 10/6/2011 3:16:55 PM EDT
[#24]
First book I ever read about Rhodesia aside from SOF articles. Caused me to order a Rhodesian Army T-Shirt and Poster. Williams was with Grey's Scouts and his unit known as the "Galloping Goofles" Good book if you can find it.
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Posted: 10/6/2011 3:23:04 PM EDT
[#25]
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Posted: 10/6/2011 3:34:42 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
Pictures of the capital, Salisbury http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/1424/85191677529199676303499.jpg http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/9209/15559202190324159555709.jpg http://img851.imageshack.us/img851/8461/15559202190334159555709.jpg http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/2748/15559202190349159555709.jpg http://img847.imageshack.us/img847/9178/15559202191014159555709.jpg http://img853.imageshack.us/img853/274/15559202191019159555709.jpg http://img710.imageshack.us/img710/8481/15559202191024159555709.jpg Does anybody have any recent pics of these locations? I would be interesting to compare. |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 3:41:48 PM EDT
[#27]
Green Leader transcription-Westland Farms Zambia Raid: http://www.scribd.com/doc/482804/Green-Leader-Transcript-1
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Posted: 10/6/2011 3:45:41 PM EDT
[#28]
Why is it again that Atf loves the Rhodesian military so much?
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Posted: 10/6/2011 3:56:57 PM EDT
[#29]
Quoted: Why is it again that Atf loves the Rhodesian military so much? Because the Rhodesian Forces were probably with out par the best counter insurgency force going. They continued to fight while under embargo and until the time that they were completely cut off. Maybe we hate communists, which is who they were fighting. Maybe we don't fool ourselves into thinking that Rhodesia was SA. Maybe we have studied it enough to realize what it wasn't about and what it was about. Maybe some of us know Ex-Pat Rhodies who served in the RLI or another unit. Maybe we don't suffer from: White Guilt Colonial Guilt African Guilt |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 3:57:06 PM EDT
[#30]
You guys have absolutely got to read:
Fireforce by Chris Cocks It was out of print for a long time, but recently has been re-released. |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 3:58:18 PM EDT
[#31]
Originally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG: You guys have absolutely got to read: Fireforce by Chris Cocks It was out of print for a long time, but recently has been re-released. Great book! |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 4:00:40 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The US military STILL hasn't digested the Rhodesian military's lessons for dealing with insurgents. They are frankly light-years ahead of us. You should reread the part where their war ends in defeat. Only because they ran out of bullets. Only because they were sold right the hell out by fuckers like Jimmy Carter. Rhodesia was sold out in the name of diversity the US the UK the rest of Europe and eventually after enough pressure South Africa. But hey they are so much better off under Bob Mugabe Africa for Africans and all that. I don't think you can use the term "diversity" in that context. In Africa, adding whites is diversity. The age of minority governments was ending, and frankly a minority government is antithetical to the ideals upon which this country was founded. All that being said, the "Majority/African rule now!" sentiment that predominated in the US and UK was horribly misguided. A slower, more gradual transition (I'm talking a couple decades minimum) with power sharing would have allowed the black Africans to eventually govern competently, and probably would have prevented the racial animosity that currently exists. The situation in Rhodesia and South Africa (white minority government) could not have continued indefinitely. What ended up happening with the immediate change to majority rule was easily foreseeable, which makes it all the more tragic. |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 4:04:06 PM EDT
[#33]
Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: The US military STILL hasn't digested the Rhodesian military's lessons for dealing with insurgents. They are frankly light-years ahead of us. You should reread the part where their war ends in defeat. Only because they ran out of bullets. Only because they were sold right the hell out by fuckers like Jimmy Carter. Rhodesia was sold out in the name of diversity the US the UK the rest of Europe and eventually after enough pressure South Africa. But hey they are so much better off under Bob Mugabe Africa for Africans and all that. I don't think you can use the term "diversity" in that context. In Africa, adding whites is diversity. The age of minority governments was ending, and frankly a minority government is antithetical to the ideals upon which this country was founded. All that being said, the "Majority/African rule now!" sentiment that predominated in the US and UK was horribly misguided. A slower, more gradual transition (I'm talking a couple decades minimum) with power sharing would have allowed the black Africans to eventually govern competently, and probably would have prevented the racial animosity that currently exists. The situation in Rhodesia and South Africa (white minority government) could not have continued indefinitely. What ended up happening with the immediate change to majority rule was easily foreseeable, which makes it all the more tragic. Diversity in the minds of the decision makers. But I see and agree with where your coming from. |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 4:04:57 PM EDT
[#34]
Originally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG: You guys have absolutely got to read: Fireforce by Chris Cocks It was out of print for a long time, but recently has been re-released. Thanks for the heads-up. I just ordered it. |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 4:25:56 PM EDT
[#35]
The Selous Scouts were true badasses
Nyadzonya was an operation that took place in August 1976. It involved ten trucks and four armoured cars disguised as FRELIMO vehicles with 84 Selous Scouts. They first cut the telephone lines to the town and drove on to the guerrilla base. They opened fire on the guerrillas killing between 1,028 and 1,184. The scouts did not sustain a single fatality. Captured ZANLA documents revealed that many of those killed in the raid were either trained guerillas or were undergoing guerilla instruction.[25][26]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selous_Scouts |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 4:42:28 PM EDT
[#36]
Originally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG: You guys have absolutely got to read: Fireforce by Chris Cocks It was out of print for a long time, but recently has been re-released. Another good one:  |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 4:49:32 PM EDT
[#37]
The Last Parade
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Posted: 10/6/2011 5:07:14 PM EDT
[#38]
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Posted: 10/6/2011 5:29:00 PM EDT
[#39]
South Africa was a great country too. No need to throw them under the bus in this discussion.
In March 1981, Reagan bluntly told Walter Cronkite that South Africa has been with us in every war we've ever fought and he wasn't going to militate against them. Ronald Reagan despised Cuba and thought the South African security forces were the "law and order" side rather than some brutal oppressor. |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 5:42:06 PM EDT
[#40]
Quoted: South Africa was a great country too. No need to throw them under the bus in this discussion. In March 1981, Reagan bluntly told Walter Cronkite that South Africa has been with us in every war we've ever fought and he wasn't going to militate against them. Ronald Reagan despised Cuba and thought the South African security forces were the "law and order" side rather than some brutal oppressor. SA isn't "getting thrown under the bus" but the fact is that enough international pressure was put on them that they had to stop rendering aid to Rhodesia, that's history sorry. |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 6:10:00 PM EDT
[#41]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why is it again that Atf loves the Rhodesian military so much? Because the Rhodesian Forces were probably with out par the best counter insurgency force going. They continued to fight while under embargo and until the time that they were completely cut off. Maybe we hate communists, which is who they were fighting. Maybe we don't fool ourselves into thinking that Rhodesia was SA. Maybe we have studied it enough to realize what it wasn't about and what it was about. Maybe some of us know Ex-Pat Rhodies who served in the RLI or another unit. Maybe we don't suffer from: White Guilt Colonial Guilt African Guilt Well said! 
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Posted: 10/6/2011 6:17:34 PM EDT
[#42]
http://www.vfi-usa.org/
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Posted: 10/6/2011 6:33:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
where can I sign up? 
spent 3 years in Rhodesia,,best times of my life.. I wonder when the world will admit the wrong side won that war. Sadly the good guys don't always win. A friend on mine in the Corps went back to his family farm there, and the fight after his enlistment. One of the regrets in my life was not being able to join him. Once my enlistment was up is was too late, it was over. Semper Fi Bro, sorry I wasn't there in you time of need. Glad some of you where. |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 6:41:08 PM EDT
[#44]
Originally Posted By KC-130 FLT ENG:
You guys have absolutely got to read: Fireforce by Chris Cocks It was out of print for a long time, but recently has been re-released. Mate of my father inlaw, he was from Malawi but most of the okes he went to boarding school with served. |
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Posted: 10/6/2011 7:01:20 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 10/6/2011 7:04:16 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 10/7/2011 6:13:24 AM EDT
[#47]
I'm surprised nobody has mentioned Operation Quartz: http://www.rhodesia.nl/quartz.htm
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Posted: 10/7/2011 7:39:04 AM EDT
[#48]
Awesome recruiting poster. |
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Posted: 10/7/2011 7:56:23 AM EDT
[#49]
Quoted:
The age of minority governments was ending, and frankly a minority government is antithetical to the ideals upon which this country was founded. All that being said, the "Majority/African rule now!" sentiment that predominated in the US and UK was horribly misguided. A slower, more gradual transition (I'm talking a couple decades minimum) with power sharing would have allowed the black Africans to eventually govern competently, and probably would have prevented the racial animosity that currently exists. The situation in Rhodesia and South Africa (white minority government) could not have continued indefinitely. What ended up happening with the immediate change to majority rule was easily foreseeable, which makes it all the more tragic. The last Prime Minister of Rhodesia was black. The communist party was illegal in Rhodesia. Carter didn't throw Rhodesia under the bus because of race. He threw it under the bus because it wasn't communist. |
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Posted: 10/7/2011 8:09:59 AM EDT
[#50]
How many white farmers are left at this point? Were they all killed?
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