User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 12/29/2019 11:05:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I came here to post this vid. watch it again. Pistols are pistols and rifles are rifles, 2200 FPS is the barrier does 5.7 truly five rifle performance in a pistol platform? And Ruger makes one for $500? That could change the game |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2019 11:06:00 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Put an optic in it and it would be a fun varmint gun. But a hell of a lot cheaper to shoot. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2019 11:07:17 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why, ruger, why not 7.62Tok? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2019 11:08:49 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why, ruger, why not 7.62Tok? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2019 11:16:11 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@armoredman The more I skim thru the "interwebs", the more the reloading problems seem to revolve around poor practices and fear set up by FN reps who like all gunmakers, discourage reloading. There does seem to be some debate as to the actual purpose of the case coating, that is, whether it is for "storage" or to facilitate extraction. Maybe both? Also, allusions to the shoulder angle being too sharp for reloading appears to be bunk, too, as it is listed on CIP as 35 degrees while other cartridges have shoulder angles of 40, etc. There's not a lot of taper on the case so that could come into play to make it a bit "sticky" at max loads. And maybe factory/GI ammo is run hot? Which indicates a handloader could back off a bit, get good performing, safe loads even if not turning in absolute max velocities. Anyway, I would be interested to read a really knowledgeable handloaders full report on reloading the thing. I guess I just don't see what the big mystery is all about. I've handloaded since the '70's and have done case forming, etc and this thing just doesn't look like it should be voodoo to handload. I also read that 40 grains is a high of a bullet as was good for reloading, that 55 gr was slightly too heavy. I started handloading MUCH later than you, only guns I had in the 70s were cap pistols and such, and have only been handloading/casting for about 10 years. I know just enough to know I don't know squat. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2019 11:17:44 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They did a P89 with a 9mm and an extra 30 Luger barrel. I have one Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Why, ruger, why not 7.62Tok? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2019 11:26:40 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Browning did the same with the Hi-Power. Some countries don,t allow 9mm,but do 7.65 Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why, ruger, why not 7.62Tok? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2019 11:36:45 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
is it 2200? I always thought "2000" was that theoretical limit, and some have argued that even down to 1700? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2019 11:37:31 PM EDT
[#9]
I'd totally be interested if the ammo weren't so damned expensive.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2019 11:37:32 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nidal Hasan killed 13 people and wounded another 31 with an FN five-seven. I don’t think the round is a joke. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
.22 Mag performance at three times the price no thank you. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2019 11:40:17 PM EDT
[#11]
Yup. If it came with a threaded barrel. I could use my can. Ooh yeah!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2019 11:40:19 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would buy one. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2019 11:41:41 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.22 TCM looks like it is a good performer, and since I like the 1911 platform I should own one. But, I don't. I looked recently for some load data and dies for the .22 TCM, and didn't find any. You are limited to short, stubby bullets, because of the 1911 magazine length. It doesn't take much to make a .22 TCM. Barrels are available for 1911 pistols and Glock 17/19s, and the Witness/RiA pistol. Of course, the 9mm guns have to use the shorter version of the cartridge. There is, (or was), a wildcat called the .22 Zipperer, or some thing like that. It was a 9x23mm Winchester necked down to fire .224 bullets. I am sure it had the same problem with bullet selection as the .22 TCM, though. Almost a century ago, there was a wildcat necked down 9mm to .22, fired from Luger pistols. None of this is new. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I would much prefer to see more .22 TCM then this It doesn't take much to make a .22 TCM. Barrels are available for 1911 pistols and Glock 17/19s, and the Witness/RiA pistol. Of course, the 9mm guns have to use the shorter version of the cartridge. There is, (or was), a wildcat called the .22 Zipperer, or some thing like that. It was a 9x23mm Winchester necked down to fire .224 bullets. I am sure it had the same problem with bullet selection as the .22 TCM, though. Almost a century ago, there was a wildcat necked down 9mm to .22, fired from Luger pistols. None of this is new. Rifle load data Pistol data from Cast Boolits Accurate Powders TCM Pdf Dies from Hornady and Lee The polymer tips of Hornadys 40 grain V-MAX bullets resulted in cartridges to long to fit the magazine of the .22 Hornet I used to own. Pulling the tips with a pair of pliers solved that. Trajectory beyond 200-250 yards had to have been affected but for some reason accuracy was not. Some one needs to try this with Hornadys 35 grain V-MAX in 5.7, 22TCM and .224 BOZ and report their findings. RIA has 22TCM pistols, and 22TCM conversion kits for 1911 and Glock 19/23 and 17/22 pistols. FN has the Five-seveN and the PS90. MPA is offering their MAC based pistol and carbine, CMMG has the Banshee. Now Ruger is jumping in. These are the salad days of small case capacity .22 center fires. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2019 11:41:43 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@EVR, my interest ran to looking at only a few articles and most of them were a decade old, after that I pretty much moved on. I also have no idea what the coating might befor, reminds me of the Breda and oilers for ammo. :) Maybe the reverse taper effect in the FiveseveN needed that extra "schlide" out for extraction? Perhaps the Ruger has been designed to not have that issue? We'll know later. I also read that 40 grains is a high of a bullet as was good for reloading, that 55 gr was slightly too heavy. I started handloading MUCH later than you, only guns I had in the 70s were cap pistols and such, and have only been handloading/casting for about 10 years. I know just enough to know I don't know squat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
@armoredman The more I skim thru the "interwebs", the more the reloading problems seem to revolve around poor practices and fear set up by FN reps who like all gunmakers, discourage reloading. There does seem to be some debate as to the actual purpose of the case coating, that is, whether it is for "storage" or to facilitate extraction. Maybe both? Also, allusions to the shoulder angle being too sharp for reloading appears to be bunk, too, as it is listed on CIP as 35 degrees while other cartridges have shoulder angles of 40, etc. There's not a lot of taper on the case so that could come into play to make it a bit "sticky" at max loads. And maybe factory/GI ammo is run hot? Which indicates a handloader could back off a bit, get good performing, safe loads even if not turning in absolute max velocities. Anyway, I would be interested to read a really knowledgeable handloaders full report on reloading the thing. I guess I just don't see what the big mystery is all about. I've handloaded since the '70's and have done case forming, etc and this thing just doesn't look like it should be voodoo to handload. I also read that 40 grains is a high of a bullet as was good for reloading, that 55 gr was slightly too heavy. I started handloading MUCH later than you, only guns I had in the 70s were cap pistols and such, and have only been handloading/casting for about 10 years. I know just enough to know I don't know squat. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Why, ruger, why not 7.62Tok? There are two ll's in Parabellum.  For that matter, the .30 Mauser isn't technically the same as the 7.62x25. Nevertheless, a hot-loaded .30 Luger would be a very interesting round to play with and very likely equal old .30 Mauser performance. I seem to remember some loads in the LEE handbook giving 1400 fps w/ 86 grain bullet. That seems high to me but with modern powders maybe it is possible. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2019 11:41:56 PM EDT
[#15]
1700fps is the original number, and one I use.
.30 Carbine produces rifle like effects using JSP's at 1850fps: "With expanding projectiles, the .30 caliber M1 Carbine creates a temporary cavity stretch that is slightly larger than that produced by heavy expanding .357 Magnum hunting loads and may be able to produce permanent splitting, tearing, and rupture injuries in tissues susceptible to stretch insults, such as the liver, kidney, spleen, pancreas, brain, and completely full fluid or gas filled hollow organs, such as the bladder. The best ammunition choices for the M1 Carbine are the Remington 110 gr JSP (R30CAR), Hornady 110 gr FTX, and loads using all copper Barnes X bullet 110 gr JHP (like the old Corbon DPX), and the outstanding Speer 110 gr Gold Dot (which sadly is no longer being made). The Remington load has an average velocity of 1864 f/s, expands to around .54” to .58” and penetrates 13” to 16” whether in bare gelatin, through automobile windshields, or Level IIIa body armor." https://pistol-forum.com/archive/index.php/t-4339.html 2200fps is far too high; by that standard 7.62x39 is only a 'rifle' for like 50-60yds. And most .300 blk loads out of 8" barrels would never hit 2200fps at all. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/29/2019 11:51:11 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You mean, like a PMR-30? It's the same slug weight, only about 400FPS slower....... But a hell of a lot cheaper to shoot. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Put an optic in it and it would be a fun varmint gun. But a hell of a lot cheaper to shoot. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 12:14:25 AM EDT
[#17]
Meh, my only interest in the cartridge would be in the Ruger American bolt action. Even now, there are much less expensive options chambered in .204 Ruger or .22 Hornet.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 12:26:17 AM EDT
[#18]
It probably is a fake. The grip isn't long enough to
handle the cartridge. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 12:38:05 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
is it 2200? I always thought "2000" was that theoretical limit, and some have argued that even down to 1700? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I came here to post this vid. watch it again. Pistols are pistols and rifles are rifles, 2200 FPS is the barrier does 5.7 truly five rifle performance in a pistol platform? And Ruger makes one for $500? That could change the game ETA I’ve shot things with projectiles that chronod in the 1700ish ballpark and was very unimpressed with their performance on tissue. Everything I’ve shot in the low 2k range and above got pretty uniformly fucked up. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 12:42:41 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If ammo weren't proprietary and were less than 20 cpr... heck yeah! |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 12:53:31 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:. 1700fps is the original number, and one I use.
.30 Carbine produces rifle like effects using JSP's at 1850fps: "With expanding projectiles, the .30 caliber M1 Carbine creates a temporary cavity stretch that is slightly larger than that produced by heavy expanding .357 Magnum hunting loads and may be able to produce permanent splitting, tearing, and rupture injuries in tissues susceptible to stretch insults, such as the liver, kidney, spleen, pancreas, brain, and completely full fluid or gas filled hollow organs, such as the bladder. The best ammunition choices for the M1 Carbine are the Remington 110 gr JSP (R30CAR), Hornady 110 gr FTX, and loads using all copper Barnes X bullet 110 gr JHP (like the old Corbon DPX), and the outstanding Speer 110 gr Gold Dot (which sadly is no longer being made). The Remington load has an average velocity of 1864 f/s, expands to around .54” to .58” and penetrates 13” to 16” whether in bare gelatin, through automobile windshields, or Level IIIa body armor." https://pistol-forum.com/archive/index.php/t-4339.html 2200fps is far too high; by that standard 7.62x39 is only a 'rifle' for like 50-60yds. And most .300 blk loads out of 8" barrels would never hit 2200fps at all. http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 1:13:42 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That the round is Proprientary is really fucking it over to be honest. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 1:29:12 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah...I thought about that too....just haven't seen one with a red dot on it. This mount is a lot higher quality than the Kel-Tec piece: RMR mount  KelTec PMR-30 With TandemKross Victory Trigger by Buffman RANGE, on Flickr
The FSN can run RDS as well:  FNH Five-seveN, 5.7x28mm by Buffman RANGE, on Flickr
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 1:43:34 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
1700 fps would mean a 30 grn .22 WMR out of a FIVE inch bbl would produce rifle quality wounds: http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:. 1700fps is the original number, and one I use.
.30 Carbine produces rifle like effects using JSP's at 1850fps: "With expanding projectiles, the .30 caliber M1 Carbine creates a temporary cavity stretch that is slightly larger than that produced by heavy expanding .357 Magnum hunting loads and may be able to produce permanent splitting, tearing, and rupture injuries in tissues susceptible to stretch insults, such as the liver, kidney, spleen, pancreas, brain, and completely full fluid or gas filled hollow organs, such as the bladder. The best ammunition choices for the M1 Carbine are the Remington 110 gr JSP (R30CAR), Hornady 110 gr FTX, and loads using all copper Barnes X bullet 110 gr JHP (like the old Corbon DPX), and the outstanding Speer 110 gr Gold Dot (which sadly is no longer being made). The Remington load has an average velocity of 1864 f/s, expands to around .54” to .58” and penetrates 13” to 16” whether in bare gelatin, through automobile windshields, or Level IIIa body armor." https://pistol-forum.com/archive/index.php/t-4339.html 2200fps is far too high; by that standard 7.62x39 is only a 'rifle' for like 50-60yds. And most .300 blk loads out of 8" barrels would never hit 2200fps at all. http://ballisticsbytheinch.com/22mag.html 'Rifle like' does not imply "wounding equal to a rifle"- it's impossible that a 200-500 ft/lb of energy anything is going to produce comparable effects to a 1000-2500ft/lb cartridge, regardless of velocity. All it means is that the round is capable of converting some of its temporary stretch cavity into permanent cavity. And the extent of this effect will be based on the projectiles energy, and the speed in which it dumps that energy (ie 500 ft/lbs in 12" vs 18", 12" will produce a larger pressure curve.) |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 9:12:55 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It probably is a fake. The grip isn't long enough to handle the cartridge. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 9:28:38 AM EDT
[#26]
OST
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 9:28:43 AM EDT
[#27]
I'd prefer to have a 10/22 in 5.7.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 10:01:06 AM EDT
[#28]
Has anyone pointed out velocity isn't the only factor in "rifle like wounding" I have a strong suspicion frontal area of the projectile matters too. Larger area probably can achieve the effect at a lower velocity. Which would explain why some think 1800fps, some thinker a few hundred higher.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 10:06:45 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That the round is Proprientary is really fucking it over to be honest. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: If ammo weren't proprietary and were less than 20 cpr... heck yeah! 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 11:44:38 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Has anyone pointed out velocity isn't the only factor in "rifle like wounding" I have a strong suspicion frontal area of the projectile matters too. Larger area probably can achieve the effect at a lower velocity. Which would explain why some think 1800fps, some thinker a few hundred higher. Not that that idea helps the 5.7 from a pistol. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 12:20:01 PM EDT
[#31]
So are they actually making this pistol, or is this just some creative photoshopping and a whole lot of wishing?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 1:37:50 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd totally be interested if the ammo weren't so damned expensive. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 1:43:50 PM EDT
[#33]
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 1:45:46 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why Tok? There are plenty of modern bottleneck cartridges with a far better ammo selection. You have .357 Sig, .460 Rowland, and 9x25 Dillon to name a few right off the bat that can be had for nothing more than a barrel change. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Good grief that is ridiculous. There are lots of Lee-Enfields do that to brass and if that's how it is, the 5.7 will face the same problems as that found in Lees; short case life given the overworking necessary to bring the case back to spec. Thanks very much for your posts here. I do see why a FN rep might say the gun is not supposed to be reloaded, for more reasons than the normal CYA that gun/ammo companies always toss out. Seems that a redesigned chamber form could solve the problems you picture here. Of course if the brass is thin that is still an issue. Back to my other dream I guess...a good, modern high cap pistol chambered for the Tokarev round. I have a lot of experience with that one and like it. I've got no interest in monkeying with the 5.7 for the stuff I do, and in reality I'll probably just stick with the 9mm tho all of us in this area may be stepping up as grizzly continue to expand their range. Well, at least for half the year. My son is a production forester for a timber company and he and his coworkers have all been thinking about the day getting closer when they trade in their 9mm's, .40's and the one fellow's .22 Mag Kel-Tec which as I think about it, he has already dumped anyway due to reliability issues. It's a sweet spot where you can have hard, sturdy bullets that pierce, but as low a cross sectional area as possible to focus the impact even more (higher BC), and a lighter weight bullet to reduce recoil & further increase AP performance (or expanding/frag performance depending on the projectile). If AP pistol ammo were legal you'd have 22-30cal penetrator rods in 9mm like the Ruskies do, and if sabots worked worth a damn the 223 Timbs would be used all over the place. You know how 7mm Mauser was the first smokeless, Spitzer-bullet cartridge that saw service, and yet is *really* close to what we still consider the "ideal rifle round?" It's because it's designers weren't idiots, and examined the same variables we do today, and came up with the same optimized result. 7.62x25 (aka 7.63 Mauser) was the first smokeless, autoloading pistol round to be used in a practical weapon that saw service. It, too, was not designed by idiots. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 1:46:36 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There are more 5.7 pistols than just the FN. Masterpiece Arms Defender 5.7 (MPA57DMG) Excel Arms Accelerator (MP-5.7) CMMG Banshee (many models) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If Ruger does launch the pistol..hooray. Consumers would have option in 5.7x28 other than the FiveseveN. Masterpiece Arms Defender 5.7 (MPA57DMG) Excel Arms Accelerator (MP-5.7) CMMG Banshee (many models) Now, the Ukrainian FORT pistol, on the other hand 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 2:03:03 PM EDT
[#36]
7.62x25 (aka 7.63 Mauser) was the first smokeless, autoloading pistol round to be used in a practical weapon that saw service. It, too, was not designed by idiots. They already had the Borchardt cartridge to copy, and increased the pressure for higher velocity, which the Soviet Union also did when they developed the 7.62x25 Tokarev. While the Borchardt wasn't officially adopted by any gov't, it was the precursor to both the C96 Mauser, (because of the similarity of the 2 cartridges), and the Parabellum, (because of the similarity of the 2 actions). |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 2:22:47 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why Tok? There are plenty of modern bottleneck cartridges with a far better ammo selection. You have .357 Sig, .460 Rowland, and 9x25 Dillon to name a few right off the bat that can be had for nothing more than a barrel change. But the 40 super is... |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 2:24:19 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would buy one. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 2:37:08 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Ruger might not be only option coming https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/423396/78A2DC00-B59E-45E7-A7EC-A92A537C4C3E_png-1214120.JPG Blog: Will 2020 be a breakout year for the 5.7x28mm? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 2:47:41 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nice. According to that blog there are rumors of three other firearm manufactures developing 5.7 pistols. Then there's the part about a Speer Gold Dot self defense round coming out next year as well. Blog: Will 2020 be a breakout year for the 5.7x28mm?
Right now the 5.7 really has neither of these things. A Gold Dot load would change things significantly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 2:48:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
None of which competes with the fiveseven as a handgun Now, the Ukrainian FORT pistol, on the other hand https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Fort-28-Pistol-660x330-660x330.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
If Ruger does launch the pistol..hooray. Consumers would have option in 5.7x28 other than the FiveseveN. Masterpiece Arms Defender 5.7 (MPA57DMG) Excel Arms Accelerator (MP-5.7) CMMG Banshee (many models) Now, the Ukrainian FORT pistol, on the other hand https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2017/04/Fort-28-Pistol-660x330-660x330.jpg
They also produce a ton of IWI-licensed stuff, like the Tavor in 5.45, several Galil ACE variants, the Galatz sniper rifle, and the Negev LMG. I think IWI's plan was to import the 5.45 conversion kits from them until they couldn't get a (repeatable) quality US-made 5.45 AR magazine to hit the 922R count. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 2:51:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It’s quieter than a suppressed 5.56 rifle. That would work. I am hoping for someone to come out with a threaded barreled version that takes a RMR. 
Between this and the new POF AR15 22lr subgun. SHOT might be super cool this year 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 2:56:11 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To be a commercial success a firearm needs to be one or the other (or both):
Right now the 5.7 really has neither of these things. A Gold Dot load would change things significantly. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Nice. According to that blog there are rumors of three other firearm manufactures developing 5.7 pistols. Then there's the part about a Speer Gold Dot self defense round coming out next year as well. Blog: Will 2020 be a breakout year for the 5.7x28mm?
Right now the 5.7 really has neither of these things. A Gold Dot load would change things significantly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 3:03:30 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More options in pistols and more companies offering ammo will significantly increase the chance of a commercial success. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 3:04:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. But will one gun from Ruger be enough to spawn some development. Or will it make the 5.7 fanbois happy for six months and then drop off the radar? |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 3:04:52 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I really don't understand what demographic this is aimed at. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 3:06:07 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If ammo weren't proprietary and were less than 20 cpr... heck yeah! |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 3:09:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Bring back the 22 Spitfire!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 3:10:36 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: If you read the Kentucky Gun Co. article they said three other manufactures are developing 5.7 pistols as well. |
|
|
|
Posted: 12/30/2019 3:39:46 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes I read that. Will they be actual handguns or some type of shortened rifle platform with arm brace? "Real" handguns like the Ruger might sell well enough to spur some additional stuff. I have my doubts that another AR pistol or two will do anything. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: If you read the Kentucky Gun Co. article they said three other manufactures are developing 5.7 pistols as well. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
Attached File