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Posted: 12/29/2019 6:08:32 PM EDT
[#1]
Hey I’m in favor of more 5.7 guns. The round is low recoiling and a dream to shoot. Already have an FN57, but I wish they’d add night sights or something. Hell I’d carry one if they made a slightly smaller gun.
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Posted: 12/29/2019 6:16:31 PM EDT
[#2]
I would buy the shit out of that
I like the FiveseveN but the weird safety and crazy price have stopped any serious thought of buying one. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 6:22:13 PM EDT
[#3]
If it's priced right I am in
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Posted: 12/29/2019 6:23:12 PM EDT
[#4]
Quoted:
Holy shit if they made that in their PCC. The PC57. Quoted:
This would be nice for their Ruger carbine.  I would buy the shit out of that combo
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Posted: 12/29/2019 6:25:31 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would buy the shit out of that I like the FiveseveN but the weird safety and crazy price have stopped any serious thought of buying one. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 6:31:17 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The problem with the Liberty 9mm is that it has the sectional density and ballistic coefficient of a disposable cup. As such it loses velocity extremely quickly. And being essentially an empty hollow point, its penetrative ability is purely velocity based.... I'd be extremely curious to see how it performs at 15-25m, much less 100m. Whereas 5.7 is a pointy chunk of solid aluminum or copper, which is inherently penetrative, much in the way that an icepick or arrow is. As such, its going to have a much further effective range. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/PB030013_zpse11c347b.jpg Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
You want to see what a 5.7 T6 round can do?
T6 through windshield at clay.  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7VouA-5gTA
Here is a Kevlar helmet test. Jump to 8:00 for T6 round. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zc3nwMSRVLw
T6 v. Level IIIa body armor https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LzBRcOnKCp0
T6 and S4M both go right through IIIa body armor. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nr6h44Pu4sM
LCD 9mm is half or less the cost of T6 and is regular production ammo available now from multiple sources. The other stuff is a two month wait while the boutique custom hand loader assembles it at 2x+ the price. As such it loses velocity extremely quickly. And being essentially an empty hollow point, its penetrative ability is purely velocity based.... I'd be extremely curious to see how it performs at 15-25m, much less 100m. Whereas 5.7 is a pointy chunk of solid aluminum or copper, which is inherently penetrative, much in the way that an icepick or arrow is. As such, its going to have a much further effective range. https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/11/PB030013_zpse11c347b.jpg |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 6:34:07 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would buy the shit out of that I like the FiveseveN but the weird safety and crazy price have stopped any serious thought of buying one. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 6:43:58 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Amen. The FN is a GREAT shooter....but the funky setup does not appeal to me. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 6:45:45 PM EDT
[#9]
$500ish, I'm all over that..
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Posted: 12/29/2019 6:46:12 PM EDT
[#10]
Why no one tag me :)
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Posted: 12/29/2019 6:48:14 PM EDT
[#11]
Neat.
I probably am not a buyer, but this announcement is cooler than all the other shit that’s supposed to come out next year. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 6:56:59 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why no one tag me :) And the other 5.7 guy I can’t remember... ETA it’s @PursuitSS 
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Posted: 12/29/2019 6:57:30 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Amen. The FN is a GREAT shooter....but the funky setup does not appeal to me. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I would buy the shit out of that I like the FiveseveN but the weird safety and crazy price have stopped any serious thought of buying one. Competition in the market is usually a good thing for consumers. Variety is welcome. If Ruger does launch the pistol..hooray. Consumers would have option in 5.7x28 other than the FiveseveN. If the price is right it could sell. At the very least Ruger collectors would have another piece to add to the collection. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 7:00:54 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Buffman_LT1 And the other 5.7 guy I can't remember... I am probably one of the few Social Media Content 5.7 guys at least on YouTube. Well at least when it comes to just not saying "OMG it's just a 22 mag" |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 7:02:50 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@pursuitSS :D I am probably one of the few Social Media Content 5.7 guys at least on YouTube. Well at least when it comes to just not saying "OMG it's just a 22 mag" |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 7:02:52 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote History |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 7:05:35 PM EDT
[#17]
I kind of want one, at a bare minimum maybe this will bring about more commercial 5.7 ammo offerings. I wouldn’t mind some cheaper ammo for my PS90.
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Posted: 12/29/2019 7:06:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.22 Mag performance at three times the price no thank you. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 7:07:23 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IIIa at 100m with a 5.7 pistol I am....skeptical. BUT ITZ PENETRATZORZ! Okay. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 7:07:37 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't use the Five-Seven safety. Problem solved. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I would buy the shit out of that I like the FiveseveN but the weird safety and crazy price have stopped any serious thought of buying one. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 7:18:36 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: PMR 30 cannot be used with suppressors, even with the threaded barrel. Edit. Technically you CAN. But stuff will break and it will not be covered by warranty, per KelTec  Suppressed Kel-Tec PMR-30? Wut!! |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 7:21:56 PM EDT
[#22]
Why our off world SG teams elected to use it agaist plate armor opponents i have no idea. If I were going to use a P90, I would want my handgun to be chambered for the same cartridge. 
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Posted: 12/29/2019 7:37:38 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: would the CMMG PCC be easier on brass than the PS90? |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 7:38:27 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My PS90 barrel has just the slightest bit of play. So I would not call it straight blowback.
The bullet would pull the barrel forward when fired. Then, the barrel and bolt, held together by pressure on the fired case, would start to recoil rearwards. The barrel would come to a halt, and the bolt would travel rearwards, with the extractor pulling the case out of the chamber. I am surprised that this type of action hasn't seen more use. If anyone can point me to documents or diagrams on the P90 action, I'd be interested. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 7:43:35 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Everything I've been able to find says the P90/PS90 is straight blowback. If so clear the gun and verify it is safe. Once you have done this, allow the bolt to go home, and then with your weak hand press rearward (towards the buttplate) on the muzzle. That movement you get there, just a few millimeters, yeah that's intentional. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 7:47:35 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
AHAHA no.. 22 mag rifle barrels can almost touch the speed of the FN Five-seveN pistol loads, but bullet construction in 22 mag is horrible |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 7:47:54 PM EDT
[#27]
No, I have an AR57 upper @ home for my Lyndon, that is just straight blowback. Knew a fella w/ one, it was his gun shop gun as he was eye dominant opposite his dominant hand, so it worked like a Beowulf X mount and allowed him a chin rest.
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Posted: 12/29/2019 7:56:47 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Full disclosure, I have a loaded 5.7 at my bedside. I'm fairly sure the core issue is the truly straight case walls; an utter bitch to deal with from a dynamics perspective. You are at the mercy of coefficients of friction in a very big way, and those coefficients vary widely throughout the firing cycle, as well as from environmental factors like oil/temperature/fouling. My theory on the teflon coating is it simply makes things more consistent, by ensuring the case is always fairly slippery. 22 Johnson Spitfire (30 carbine based wildcat with similar performance) was a better solution. You'd have had much stronger brass, and more reliable everything. Higher case volume would make the internal pressure curve wider, thus easier to harness by autoloading mechanisms. Way tougher primer pockets would tolerate multiple reloading cycles as well as higher pressures than 5.7 can. Capacity would be better than 9mm-diameter options, and the round could be shortened perhaps to 38-super length without sacrificing performance (Spitfire is 30 Carbine length and ever so slightly more powerful than 5.7 from the increased volume) 5.7 is a careful balance of the necessary characteristics needed to get the form factor and penetration requirements the original solicitation called for. It has also taken careful balancing to take that from a PDW and cartridge to a stand alone companion pistol and have it all work like it's supposed to. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 7:56:56 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
@EVR To further illustrate the beating the brass takes, I grabbed some from storage. On the left is an FNss198 I think. Whatever the standard 40gr vmax load is. Second is once fired of the same. No case prep has been done. On the right is the second reload of the same type of brass. I don't recall what exactly the load would have been for this batch of brass but it would have been with a 40gr nosler with true blue and it certainly wasn't a super hot rod load. https://i.imgur.com/mbKZIND.jpg This was from a PS90. As I stated a couple of times, the 5-7 pistol is considerably less abusive. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: @Redarts THANKS for that. That is the single best and most sensible assessment of the cartridge for reloading I've read. Makes total sense. Thanks! To further illustrate the beating the brass takes, I grabbed some from storage. On the left is an FNss198 I think. Whatever the standard 40gr vmax load is. Second is once fired of the same. No case prep has been done. On the right is the second reload of the same type of brass. I don't recall what exactly the load would have been for this batch of brass but it would have been with a 40gr nosler with true blue and it certainly wasn't a super hot rod load. https://i.imgur.com/mbKZIND.jpg This was from a PS90. As I stated a couple of times, the 5-7 pistol is considerably less abusive. Thanks very much for your posts here. I do see why a FN rep might say the gun is not supposed to be reloaded, for more reasons than the normal CYA that gun/ammo companies always toss out. Seems that a redesigned chamber form could solve the problems you picture here. Of course if the brass is thin that is still an issue. Back to my other dream I guess...a good, modern high cap pistol chambered for the Tokarev round. I have a lot of experience with that one and like it. I've got no interest in monkeying with the 5.7 for the stuff I do, and in reality I'll probably just stick with the 9mm tho all of us in this area may be stepping up as grizzly continue to expand their range. Well, at least for half the year. My son is a production forester for a timber company and he and his coworkers have all been thinking about the day getting closer when they trade in their 9mm's, .40's and the one fellow's .22 Mag Kel-Tec which as I think about it, he has already dumped anyway due to reliability issues. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 8:00:51 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The safety is actually quite nice once you practice with it a bit. You can use your offhand thumb or trigger finger to disengage it. Aside fro that, the manual of arms is no different than a Glock.
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Posted: 12/29/2019 8:04:49 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Good grief that is ridiculous. There are lots of Lee-Enfields do that to brass and if that's how it is, the 5.7 will face the same problems as that found in Lees; short case life given the overworking necessary to bring the case back to spec. Thanks very much for your posts here. I do see why a FN rep might say the gun is not supposed to be reloaded, for more reasons than the normal CYA that gun/ammo companies always toss out. Seems that a redesigned chamber form could solve the problems you picture here. Of course if the brass is thin that is still an issue. Back to my other dream I guess...a good, modern high cap pistol chambered for the Tokarev round. I have a lot of experience with that one and like it. I've got no interest in monkeying with the 5.7 for the stuff I do, and in reality I'll probably just stick with the 9mm tho all of us in this area may be stepping up as grizzly continue to expand their range. Well, at least for half the year. My son is a production forester for a timber company and he and his coworkers have all been thinking about the day getting closer when they trade in their 9mm's, .40's and the one fellow's .22 Mag Kel-Tec which as I think about it, he has already dumped anyway due to reliability issues. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 8:05:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Guess we will see at Shot Show in 20ish days
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Posted: 12/29/2019 8:05:59 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If Ruger does launch the pistol..hooray. Consumers would have option in 5.7x28 other than the FiveseveN. Masterpiece Arms Defender 5.7 (MPA57DMG) Excel Arms Accelerator (MP-5.7) CMMG Banshee (many models) |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 8:10:19 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can. Just don't shoot faster stuff out of it like 28-35 gr. Shoot 40/45/50gr heavy stuff, and it works just fine. Although it's a gassy SOB. This is an old video, but I've shot that gun suppressed many times since then. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nrdtBZUAoAgI'd like to know more. What ammo? Can? Round count? I've no doubt it can be done. It's a matter of KelTec not honoring warranty on it as well as if one uses the wrong ammo (like 99% of GD and KelTec owners, who pay no mind to such things) it will break things. KelTec replacement parts aren't always easy to get, even of you're paying for them. I love the idea of the PMR, but if rather buy the CMR 30 and suppress that. Though the CMR is ammo picky if I recall correctly. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 8:19:43 PM EDT
[#35]
GD was happy once, then they remembered the 5.7 exists.
You guys get passionately worked up over trying to prove a caliber is useless and terrible. Who cares? Don’t buy it. I like the idea of a Ruger 5.7; if priced right, I’d absolutely get one. The idea of an accompanying PCC is pretty awesome too. I really enjoy my FN, but I do agree it isn’t worth the $1200 price tag they carry these days. I have an early USG that cost me $800. 
For the $1200, FN needs to put an RDS mount and factory threaded barrel on it. It should be a $900-ish handgun otherwise. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 8:34:33 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why Tok? There are plenty of modern bottleneck cartridges with a far better ammo selection. You have .357 Sig, .460 Rowland, and 9x25 Dillon to name a few right off the bat that can be had for nothing more than a barrel change. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Good grief that is ridiculous. There are lots of Lee-Enfields do that to brass and if that's how it is, the 5.7 will face the same problems as that found in Lees; short case life given the overworking necessary to bring the case back to spec. Thanks very much for your posts here. I do see why a FN rep might say the gun is not supposed to be reloaded, for more reasons than the normal CYA that gun/ammo companies always toss out. Seems that a redesigned chamber form could solve the problems you picture here. Of course if the brass is thin that is still an issue. Back to my other dream I guess...a good, modern high cap pistol chambered for the Tokarev round. I have a lot of experience with that one and like it. I've got no interest in monkeying with the 5.7 for the stuff I do, and in reality I'll probably just stick with the 9mm tho all of us in this area may be stepping up as grizzly continue to expand their range. Well, at least for half the year. My son is a production forester for a timber company and he and his coworkers have all been thinking about the day getting closer when they trade in their 9mm's, .40's and the one fellow's .22 Mag Kel-Tec which as I think about it, he has already dumped anyway due to reliability issues. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 8:54:00 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: GD was happy once, then they remembered the 5.7 exists.
You guys get passionately worked up over trying to prove a caliber is useless and terrible. Who cares? Don’t buy it. I like the idea of a Ruger 5.7; if priced right, I’d absolutely get one. The idea of an accompanying PCC is pretty awesome too. I really enjoy my FN, but I do agree it isn’t worth the $1200 price tag they carry these days. I have an early USG that cost me $800.
For the $1200, FN needs to put an RDS mount and factory threaded barrel on it. It should be a $900-ish handgun otherwise. For you 7.62x25mm Tokarev fans, if this Ruger is a traditional falling bbl short recoil action, your dreams might just be a bbl, mag change, & machining the chamber face away. The action is long enough - if Ruger left enough room elsewhere... |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 9:05:20 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Also fails to mention that by the time it pens llla, the results arent impressive. At all. 5.7 is a great round to spam in select fire weapons where every bit of body armor pen helps, however anemic. Why our off world SG teams elected to use it agaist plate armor opponents i have no idea. BUT ITZ PENETRATZORZ! Okay.  5.7x28mm, SS190 AP, 31gr FMJ AP, Clear Ballistic Gel The bullet design that shines in this caliber is long, and light and pointed. Sub 35gr to keep velocity over 2000 fps in the FSN. Build more 5.7 guns, the more interest manufacturers may have in making ammo, and hopefully prices will drop  The Black Dragon Fang 5.7x28mm! |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 9:38:46 PM EDT
[#39]
I would much prefer to see more .22 TCM then this
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Posted: 12/29/2019 9:40:07 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would much prefer to see more .22 TCM then this |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 9:45:21 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: @Buffman_LT1 I'd like to know more. What ammo? Can? Round count? I've no doubt it can be done. It's a matter of KelTec not honoring warranty on it as well as if one uses the wrong ammo (like 99% of GD and KelTec owners, who pay no mind to such things) it will break things. KelTec replacement parts aren't always easy to get, even of you're paying for them. I love the idea of the PMR, but if rather buy the CMR 30 and suppress that. Though the CMR is ammo picky if I recall correctly. Quote HistoryQuoted: @Buffman_LT1 I'd like to know more. What ammo? Can? Round count? I've no doubt it can be done. It's a matter of KelTec not honoring warranty on it as well as if one uses the wrong ammo (like 99% of GD and KelTec owners, who pay no mind to such things) it will break things. KelTec replacement parts aren't always easy to get, even of you're paying for them. I love the idea of the PMR, but if rather buy the CMR 30 and suppress that. Though the CMR is ammo picky if I recall correctly.  Q, El Camino 22 Suppressor Review @SilencerShop  Advanced Armament Corporation (AAC), Halcyon, 22 Suppressor, Quoted: I was tracking the FN 57 wouldn't cycle w/ a suppressor? For you 7.62x25mm Tokarev fans, if this Ruger is a traditional falling bbl short recoil action, your dreams might just be a bbl, mag change, & machining the chamber face away. The action is long enough - if Ruger left enough room elsewhere...  5.7x28mm, 57gr Copper Hollow Point, (R57.SD), R&R Weapon Systems Test, CMMG MK57 here is the newer SB193 from FN. Originally it was a 55gr FMJ and velocities were under 1000 fps, and didn't cycle the FSN, as they were made for the P90. These work a LOT better:  5.7x28mm, 60gr FMJ, Subsonic, SB193, FN Hertsal |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 9:48:05 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The bullet design that shines in this caliber is long, and light and pointed. Sub 35gr to keep velocity over 2000 fps in the FSN. Build more 5.7 guns, the more interest manufacturers may have in making ammo, and hopefully prices will drop https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w3eTHn9VrzE |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 9:53:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I would much prefer to see more .22 TCM then this It doesn't take much to make a .22 TCM. Barrels are available for 1911 pistols and Glock 17/19s, and the Witness/RiA pistol. Of course, the 9mm guns have to use the shorter version of the cartridge. There is, (or was), a wildcat called the .22 Zipperer, or some thing like that. It was a 9x23mm Winchester necked down to fire .224 bullets. I am sure it had the same problem with bullet selection as the .22 TCM, though. Almost a century ago, there was a wildcat necked down 9mm to .22, fired from Luger pistols. None of this is new. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 9:59:27 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
.460 Rowland isn't bottleneck iirc, but I agree with the rest of your post. The Tok love makes no sense to me. .357 SIG in particular is better in every way and available in far more guns. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 10:01:23 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I was tracking the FN 57 wouldn't cycle w/ a suppressor? For you 7.62x25mm Tokarev fans, if this Ruger is a traditional falling bbl short recoil action, your dreams might just be a bbl, mag change, & machining the chamber face away. The action is long enough - if Ruger left enough room elsewhere... 
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Posted: 12/29/2019 10:10:08 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I was not familiar with this round (just EA). A little slower than the T6. Thanks! |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 10:29:27 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why Tok? There are plenty of modern bottleneck cartridges with a far better ammo selection. You have .357 Sig, .460 Rowland, and 9x25 Dillon to name a few right off the bat that can be had for nothing more than a barrel change. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Good grief that is ridiculous. There are lots of Lee-Enfields do that to brass and if that's how it is, the 5.7 will face the same problems as that found in Lees; short case life given the overworking necessary to bring the case back to spec. Thanks very much for your posts here. I do see why a FN rep might say the gun is not supposed to be reloaded, for more reasons than the normal CYA that gun/ammo companies always toss out. Seems that a redesigned chamber form could solve the problems you picture here. Of course if the brass is thin that is still an issue. Back to my other dream I guess...a good, modern high cap pistol chambered for the Tokarev round. I have a lot of experience with that one and like it. I've got no interest in monkeying with the 5.7 for the stuff I do, and in reality I'll probably just stick with the 9mm tho all of us in this area may be stepping up as grizzly continue to expand their range. Well, at least for half the year. My son is a production forester for a timber company and he and his coworkers have all been thinking about the day getting closer when they trade in their 9mm's, .40's and the one fellow's .22 Mag Kel-Tec which as I think about it, he has already dumped anyway due to reliability issues. I personally don't care about factory selection as I rarely shoot factory ammo either pistol or rifle. I've owned a .357 SIG, neither of the other two. Over the years I've used .22LR, 7.62x25, 9x19, .357 SIG, .38 Special, .44 Mag, .45 ACP, .45 Colt, .41 Magnum. 38 S&W for killing butcher stock {mostly lambs and mutton sheep and goats, 40-250 lb size} and .357 Mag on varmints and small game and also a .32 ACP on the ranch a little. Etc. There is really nothing to choose from the service pistols. Among the service pistol calibers, nobody could tell the difference between what caliber was used by the critter's reaction to the shot. I like the 7.62x25 as it is a nice flat and easy shooting caliber. It's not like it is a stupendous winner compared to the others for what I do but it is a neat cartridge and when case lots of cheap Eastern Bloc stuff was available it was especially a good one. Would make a good bobcat, coyote, feral dog round too. Good caliber but too long for normal 9mm-sized frames. Actually, a 7.65 Luger in a modern load in a modern pistol would be a winner, too. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 10:37:51 PM EDT
[#48]
No, you are thinking of Kel Tec.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Knowing Ruger it will be announced at SHOT show and but won’t be available until June 2022. It will likely be 800 MSRP. |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 10:46:48 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
2,200fps seems to be the cutoff for catastrophic tissue damage. I see only one 5.7 round (28gr) that exceeds that threshold (coming out of the pistol, anyway). Very interesting video with ballistics experts at Federal Ammo. Goto 5:10 to get into the meat and potatoes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6kUvi72s0Ywatch it again. Pistols are pistols and rifles are rifles, 2200 FPS is the barrier does 5.7 truly give rifle performance in a pistol platform? And Ruger makes one for $500? That could change the game |
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Posted: 12/29/2019 10:56:24 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I would buy the shit out of that comboI could be wrong. |
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