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When they started dusting off T55s it had to be obvious how desperate they were. Imagine of the US was so desperate for aircraft that they went to the Boneyard and started trying to resurrect Jets from 70 years ago. Cant compare it to tanks because we turn tanks into artificial reefs or plant them in front of VFWs before they are that old
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LOL You have to be joking!!!!RUSSIA Has Between 15 thousand to 30 thousand tanks from T62,T72,T80,T90, And they have the man power to put into,I Really wish People would stop with the pro Ukraine Propaganda
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Quoted: That's what the 30% Fudge Factor is for. It's beyond frustrating having to explain basic facts to you. 99% accuracy will never be possible in a large scale war. They have photos documenting every loss -- click on each individual loss and you'll see a photo. View Quote Right. And the 30% you mention is pulled from thin air. A completely made up number. It may be a flat 60% inaccuracy for both sides. Or even 50% on the Ukranian numbers and only 30% on the Russian numbers, or vice versa. I looked at the pictures. A number of those tanks are burned beyond recognition without any identifying markers left and both sides have them in inventory. What I'm saying is the data is useless for comparison because it isn't accurate. And you agree yourself that it isn't. It's a collection of pictures of blown up tanks that's interesting to look at. But it can't be used for much more than that. Other than to say collectively there has been alot of tanks blown up during this war. They have not taken a picture of every tank blown up in this war. |
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Quoted: Is Russia Running Out of Tanks? Russia could run out of infantry fighting vehicles in two or three years, if a recent assessment is accurate. It might run out of tanks around the same time. According to one count, the Russian armed forces went to war in Ukraine in February 2022 with 2,987 tanks. After 23 months of hard fighting, the Russians have lost at least 2,619 tanks that independent analysts can confirm. That's 1,725 destroyed, 145 damaged, 205 abandoned and 544 captured T-55s, T-62s, T-72s, T-80s and T-90s. If the Kremlin didn't have options for replacing war losses, the Russian military would be down to just 368 tanks: far too few to defend against Ukraine's own armor corps, which between pre-war tanks, restored tanks and donated tanks minus losses might number around a thousand vehicles. much more at the link above. View Quote Remember those times when Putin was "mysteriously sick" and may die "any day now" over the last 2 years??? Still standing. |
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Quoted: LOL You have to be joking!!!!RUSSIA Has Between 15 thousand to 30 thousand tanks from T62,T72,T80,T90, And they have the man power to put into,I Really wish People would stop with the pro Ukraine Propaganda View Quote Ukraine broke this website. The real subject matter experts found a ban, while everyone with a cold war fetish have had their voices amplified and have been crowned as the new smes, even with incongruent and emotionally based statements. |
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Quoted: Right. And the 30% you mention is pulled from thin air. A completely made up number. It may be a flat 60% inaccuracy for both sides. Or even 50% on the Ukranian numbers and only 30% on the Russian numbers, or vice versa. I looked at the pictures. A number of those tanks are burned beyond recognition without any identifying markers left and both sides have them in inventory. What I'm saying is the data is useless for comparison because it isn't accurate. And you agree yourself that it isn't. It's a collection of pictures of blown up tanks that's interesting to look at. But it can't be used for much more than that. Other than to say collectively there has been alot of tanks blown up during this war. They have not taken a picture of every tank blown up in this war. View Quote
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Quoted: When they started dusting off T55s it had to be obvious how desperate they were. Imagine of the US was so desperate for aircraft that they went to the Boneyard and started trying to resurrect Jets from 70 years ago. Cant compare it to tanks because we turn tanks into artificial reefs or plant them in front of VFWs before they are that old View Quote Or let the AF blast them. I had a trip in the ranges on Ft. Drum and saw a Bn worth of M48s parked on the road and herringboned out like it was a pause in a road march. Being a former Armor Bn guy that was kind of eerie and sad. This was up in the Air force’s range target yard. They drag them out to the impact zone as needed. I took a crawl around one out of nostalgia. That loaders hatch is a lot smaller than an M60’s! My fat butt with a duty belt on was a squeeze. Probably not many of those left now as that was a dozen years ago. I’d found a few older tanks in the impact area hedgerows as the range layouts left them behind when things get a redesign. One sherman that was punched through in a few places and another that was all torn apart especially the engine bay area. Found one on LeJeune like that too that was hammered with machine gun hits, the hull and turret surface looked like a cratered moonscape. |
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Quoted: Wasn't this the title of a bunch of news articles a year or two back? It seems they've been running out of tanks for a long time now! View Quote Yes, They have been. They don’t throw anything away, so they are able to cannibalize tanks in the boneyards and throw together museum pieces with old parts. Doesn’t do any good though. Tanks are almost obsolete in this war. |
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Quoted: Maybe I could donate my piece of T72 to the cause? https://i.imgur.com/hiVqkhP.jpg https://i.imgur.com/YGuTWxh.jpg View Quote Lol @ Ukrainian etsy sellers fleecing people with fake tank trinkets. |
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Quoted: Spare me from smoothbrains. This is the most intensely videographed war in history (to date). Yes, there are crazy autists documenting every loss. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html Ukrainian Losses https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html Russian Losses Click on each individual vehicle to see photographic evidence. While, yes; there are probably some miscounts due to vehicles being totally obliterated; Top Sekrit NATO military intel that has been leaked (thank you Airman Teixiria) show that Oryx loss counts are well within the ballpark figure for military planning. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: And the MOD numbers, is Ivan running around with a clip board counting how many have been blown up? When they find one burned up how do they know it's Russian and not one of their own when they are using the same vehicles? Spare me from smoothbrains. This is the most intensely videographed war in history (to date). Yes, there are crazy autists documenting every loss. https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-ukrainian.html Ukrainian Losses https://www.oryxspioenkop.com/2022/02/attack-on-europe-documenting-equipment.html Russian Losses Click on each individual vehicle to see photographic evidence. While, yes; there are probably some miscounts due to vehicles being totally obliterated; Top Sekrit NATO military intel that has been leaked (thank you Airman Teixiria) show that Oryx loss counts are well within the ballpark figure for military planning. Thanks. There are some very uninformed people here, and this topic draws them like moths to a flame. Willful ignorance is NOT a virtue, people. |
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Quoted: Who is pro Russian? I'm just saying the numbers aren't accurate and you are agreeing with me by stating you have to multiply some arbitrary made up "fudge" factor of 30% to account for error. While it is interesting to look at the photos we do not know what % of destroyed vehicles haven't been documented. And while you try to account for error, no one truly knows what % of them are mis-identified. They can't verify claims from the Netherlands. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Tons of pro russian accounts have tried over and over to discredit Oryx; yet they remain in the game. No, Oryx doesn't capture every destroyed vehicle. No, Oryx doesn't take into account "destroyed" vehicles which are later recovered and the crew remains hosed out and a fresh coat of paint slapped on circa 1944-45. What it does do is provide a useful baseline for estimation with fudge factors. 1700 destroyed Russian tanks - Fudge of 30% (divide by 1.3) = 1300 destroyed Russian Tanks. Pre war estimates by think-tanks like the International Institute of Strategic Studies (IISS) were that the Russians had 2,900 operational tanks in their military. 1300 / 2900 = 44% of the pre-war tank fleet has pretty much been destroyed or so badly damaged as to be irrecoverable. Yes, the Russians are producing new tanks -- about 40 to 50 new tanks (T-80, T-72, T-90) each month -- but that's about one week's rate of losses at a place like Robotyne. They've been making up the balance of losses above and beyond their new production with all their stored cold-war era stuff (T-55, T-62, T-72) located in these storage depots; but what happens when that runs out in about 9 months? Who is pro Russian? I'm just saying the numbers aren't accurate and you are agreeing with me by stating you have to multiply some arbitrary made up "fudge" factor of 30% to account for error. While it is interesting to look at the photos we do not know what % of destroyed vehicles haven't been documented. And while you try to account for error, no one truly knows what % of them are mis-identified. They can't verify claims from the Netherlands. There are 5 or 6 full time Russian trolls who are absolutely dedicated to their craft. We aren’t allowed to name them, but perhaps I’ll quote them for you, in red, if they show up. |
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Quoted: You've got 50 million, why not buy a few trinkets? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Lol @ Ukrainian etsy sellers fleecing people with fake tank trinkets. You've got 50 million, why not buy a few trinkets? No one has followed through yet. I remain poor. |
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In 2 to 3 years russia will have won this silly war bahahahahah
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The most recent good photos of Uralvagonzavod are devoid of tank shells. At one point every empty field near a rail station was full of T-72s getting the "M" treatment before going off to compete in the turret toss. Supposedly there are still like 300-500 in various boneyards. My guess would be that they are so bad that it's not worth the time.
A bunch of people have been watching for them to spin up a cold war era steel production factory. It looks like everything is coming by rail from china right now. It may be that we see NORK tanks on the front soon. |
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As a former 19k, It’s interesting to me that Russian generals have not yet realized, that Tanks are basically obsolete. They aren’t a good use of assets.
If you can be spotted by drones, and hunted at night by Thermal “baby yaga”, it’s beyond terrifying. But more importantly, It prevents you from massing enough forces in one place, to make a big breakthrough. If you can be taken out easily by a Javelin, (or similar) then what’s the point? Missiles, Artilliary, Mines and Drones, will Always be cheaper than Tanks, (including the Crew, and all the logistics required). Incidentally, Wars are won by Logistics. Luckily for Ukraine and the World, Russia has always sucked at logistics, except for when we were helping them out in WW-II. Individual Tanks do nothing. You need battalions of Armor, supported by Air support and Infantry. Few understand the logistics required for an effective Armor assault. https://www.reddit.com/r/CombatFootage/comments/18y8z9s/russian_armored_convoy_obliterated_while_trying/ This is a perfect example of Russian tactics. Notice how they’re all bunched up? Notice how the crews bail out, only to get picked off by gunfire, arty and drones? It’s no picnic. But forgetting the tragic waste of life, it’s also a brutally inefficient waste of National resources. Pure stupidity. For Europe and the world, it’s better if they don’t run out. Trickling them in like this, into well defined kill zones, is actually a best-case scenario, lest they re-think their strategy, and devise a more effective means of attack. |
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Quoted: This They have been running out of armor and missiles since May 2022. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Wasn't this the title of a bunch of news articles a year or two back? It seems they've been running out of tanks for a long time now! This They have been running out of armor and missiles since May 2022. "We're getting closer to the waterfall marked on the map" -man in canoe 3 miles upstream "We're getting closer to the waterfall hope you're ready to portage" -man in canoe 2 miles upstream "We're getting closer to the waterfall you can hear it now" -man in canoe 1 mile upstream "Stop with the MSM propaganda, we haven't crossed any waterfall!" -his wife, 0.5 miles upstream |
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LOL,
The idea that people can outright deny Russian tank & armored losses is absurd. They are incredibly well documented. |
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Does the Russian tank equation factor in Brads with 25mm knocking out the latest and greatest T-90's in combat?
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Quoted: This They have been running out of armor and missiles since May 2022. View Quote Yep... Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File Attached File |
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Quoted: Does the Russian tank equation factor in Brads with 25mm knocking out the latest and greatest T-90's in combat? View Quote That was fucking amazing. Fricking ERA poofing off, pieces of junk flying, then burning tank. I would have said they didn't have a hope in hell but Russian tanks strike again. |
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Make no mistake Russia's tank and armored personal carrier losses are massive. There are enough drone videos to know this is 100% true.
It has been mentioned in this thread but there are also really good conflict news websites which track ONLY confirmed kills that can be geolocated and substantiated. . . which will never tell the full picture because we don't have actuals That all being said, Russia has pivoted to a wartime economy. They have mobilized their citizenship under the guise of this war being an existential threat to their country. When you go to those lengths things really kick into high gear and there are also videos floating around detailing some of the manufacturing facilities for tanks, shells, and drones. Also worth mentioning that it's not hard to find Western Media articles which date back to Spring of 2022 insinuating Russia is going to imminently run out of tanks, BMP's, shells, missiles which clearly in hindsight was Western Propaganda. I'm sure the quality is shit, I'm sure a ton has been sold out by corrupt officials, and I'm sure most of it takes a lot of re-work, but Russia's' old Soviet stockpiles were pretty massive Attached File |
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Quoted: LOL, The idea that people can outright deny Russian tank & armored losses is absurd. They are incredibly well documented. View Quote So have Ukraine's, just not acknowledged by them. Still, even with all those losses bought via huge aid packages which will not be replicated, and the needle essentially hasn't moved. Tanks haven't impacted anything in this war besides growing cost and casualty counts when they are destroyed. Ukraine has no organic production, external support is being reduced to thoughts and prayers. If the position being presented is that Russian manufacturing capacity and generation of armor is a concern for them, then it's exponentially worse for Ukraine. |
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Quoted: So have Ukraine's, just not acknowledged by them. Still, even with all those losses bought via huge aid packages which will not be replicated, and the needle essentially hasn't moved. Tanks haven't impacted anything in this war besides growing cost and casualty counts when they are destroyed. Ukraine has no organic production, external support is being reduced to thoughts and prayers. If the position being presented is that Russian manufacturing capacity and generation of armor is a concern for them, then it's exponentially worse for Ukraine. View Quote I've been reading for well over a year now from random think tanks that the biggest issue Ukraine has is that they have very little domestic wartime manufacturing. Ukraine absolutely needs a war time manufacturing base otherwise they are too dependent upon the West for funding. History will show you with absolute certainty that at some point that Western funds and weapons will runs out. This is especially true in that we go through election cycles where sentiment can change depending on the new guy in power. Ukraine needs to be more self sufficient if they want to have a shot at winning this war otherwise it's just a very costly waiting game. This isn't a niche issue, it's widely publicized. There's a reason why the West was so vocal about how Ukraine developed their own "Sea Baby" drones and their own version of a Octocopter the R18. My guess is they are doing assembling at best. |
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Quoted: Quoted: They're going to run out of soldiers too. A lot of people have lost that bet. Yes, they have enough men, but the quality is likely pretty poor. Most of their prewar "professional" troops are out of action by now. That includes much of their best equipment. Deploying a bunch of Forest Gump quality soldiers with cold war era kit isn't exactly a great strategy. The only thing low quality troops can really handle is garrison/defense duty. We've all seen what happens with you try to use low quality troops in offensive operations. They take huge casualties, they can't coordinate well, and they can't use their equipment effectively. A dead soldier can't use battlefield experience at a later date, either. Their economy can't be doing well, despite a wartime footing. A decent percentage of their talented workforce has been conscripted or has fled the country. Nobody is investing in Russia for obvious reasons and companies that were invested prewar are mostly gone. Western technology is gone with sanctions. Not good for Russia's tech industry. Also, the Ruble isn't too useful globally. China is the only real trade partner they have which is not ideal. China is likely taking advantage in every way they can. Even if Russia manages to hold onto occupied territory with some kind of treaty, there will be many years of pain for the Russian economy. Ironically, the worst thing for Russia might be peace, since it helps bring down oil prices on which Russia so heavily depends. |
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We (modern, current year people)
are finding that if you have a society or government with iron will it can do things like redirect industry, draft citizens and criminals, and withstand financial and equipment embargos and keep attacking with 300k+ dead, 10k+ vehicles lost, 100s of planes and helicopters destroyed. The oriental nature of Russia is front and center. The USA would have a revolution by now |
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Quoted: Wasn't this the title of a bunch of news articles a year or two back? It seems they've been running out of tanks for a long time now! View Quote This video is the most accurate summary of the war to date, showing which side is winning and which is losing: Russian Invasion of Ukraine: Every Day to 2024 using Google Earth |
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Quoted: Yet, you frequently post @Karankawa ‘s account, as an example of your self-manifested “legion”, without any regard for the COC. You aren’t reluctant to post a screenshot of his account, so post screenshots of some other “legion(aire)” accounts. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Yet, it’s a strong suit of yours. Still waiting for you to provide a list of the, according to you, “legion” of pro-Russian accounts in GD. Creating lists is against the coc since the last thread was locked. Sorry, won’t be breaking the coc Who have I falsely accused? Please be specific Yet, you frequently post @Karankawa ‘s account, as an example of your self-manifested “legion”, without any regard for the COC. You aren’t reluctant to post a screenshot of his account, so post screenshots of some other “legion(aire)” accounts. Sorry I’m late. Was trying to find the right Putin portrait for my wall of heroes. Can’t decide between the older more distinguished leader or younger bad boy with those piercing blue eyes. So dreamy! Seriously wish we could get along though. Puppet Biden island the globohomos behind him are the real problem. |
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Which puts them in a corner and more likely to employ what they have left.
Nukes. |
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Quoted: My brain hurts just thinking about maintaining 5 different models if tank. View Quote More than just 5 Leo 1 Leo 2 of various Ax M1 Challenger 2 T-64 T-80 T-55S ex Slovenian T-72 ex Czech and Polish Yeah And that's before counting various detrius like AMX-10 and a gazillion of SPGs, Leo 2R, Gepard, etc. |
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Quoted: Is Russia Running Out of Tanks? Russia could run out of infantry fighting vehicles in two or three years, if a recent assessment is accurate. It might run out of tanks around the same time. According to one count, the Russian armed forces went to war in Ukraine in February 2022 with 2,987 tanks. After 23 months of hard fighting, the Russians have lost at least 2,619 tanks that independent analysts can confirm. That's 1,725 destroyed, 145 damaged, 205 abandoned and 544 captured T-55s, T-62s, T-72s, T-80s and T-90s. If the Kremlin didn't have options for replacing war losses, the Russian military would be down to just 368 tanks: far too few to defend against Ukraine's own armor corps, which between pre-war tanks, restored tanks and donated tanks minus losses might number around a thousand vehicles. much more at the link above. View Quote More Ukie bros propaganda. Just two more weeks and surely then Ukraine will defeat Russia. |
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Biden will send Russia 50 tanks.
He can't remember who he's for. |
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Quoted: Right. And the 30% you mention is pulled from thin air. A completely made up number. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Right. And the 30% you mention is pulled from thin air. A completely made up number. You're just challenging me just to be contrarian. There are many good reasons for a 30% fudge factor downwards to be conservative; which I've said before and will repeat again. For example... A.) There are vehicles which are tactically destroyed -- i.e. knocked out with the crew (or a good portion of the crew) killed, but they're in recoverable shape. A week later, recovery troops show up and tow the tank back to a rear area depot and hose out what's left of the crew, repaint the insides, and reissue it. If you were a US tanker in 1944-45 and you got a Sherman from a depot and it smelled of fresh paint inside...someone died. B.) Initial evidence of a loss may be drone footage showing a spectacular explosion, but actual damage is minimal, etc. It may be a flat 60% inaccuracy for both sides. Or even 50% on the Ukranian numbers and only 30% on the Russian numbers, or vice versa. You're just babbling word salad here. I looked at the pictures. A number of those tanks are burned beyond recognition without any identifying markers left and both sides have them in inventory. Certain tank types are specific to only one side (barring captures). For example, the T-90 has a quite unique turret shape, especially the later marks with the "Vladimir" welded turret. Likewise; the equipment and fits of the tanks on both sides are unique and different because while both Russia and Ukraine started off with the same basic tank fleets in 1992; thirty years of diverging modernization programs have resulted in tank fleets that are differentated by their external fits. For example, both Russia and Ukraine use Kontakt ERA, but only Russia uses Relikt ERA -- thus if you encounter a blown apart tank that has Relikt armor on it; it's a Russian tank etc etc. Remember when I said autists were looking at everything? These guys can recognize minor features in modernization programs; such as tank periscopes, EW Jammers, etc. What I'm saying is the data is useless for comparison because it isn't accurate. You're pretty much repeating what the pro-Russian accounts on Twitter who don't like Oryx say. And you agree yourself that it isn't. I agree that it's not 100% accurate. But it's been proven to be accurate to a high level of reliability -- enough to be used for staff planning purposes in a military context. Remember the big leaked document drama about a year ago or so with that ANG Guardsman Texiria? Pentagon analysts were assessing that Russia had lost 6,004 AFVs as of 1 March 2023; versus Oryx's claims of 6,486 destroyed vehicles as of 10 April 2023. Oryx was overcounting by 400+ vehicles; or about roughly 7%. It's a collection of pictures of blown up tanks that's interesting to look at. But it can't be used for much more than that. Other than to say collectively there has been alot of tanks blown up during this war. You show a lack of creativity or originality. I'll let DavidD on Twitter school you from back in November of '23, where he ran down the hard numbers concerning the Ka-52: https://twitter.com/secretsqrl123/status/1721555135950700800 130 [KA-52] in russian service at the start of the war of that about 20 were non combat operational.. testing, crashes, hard landings, etc... 2 were burned in a hanger in the NMD 110... 50 were KNOWN to have been lost due to shoot downs 60..... 20+ suspected to be shot down (ukr est) so take away 10 50.... we KNOW that many have been stripped of parts. you can see black helos have camo parts and some camo helos have black parts... aircraft that were not shot down but made it back to base but were damaged so bad they will never fly again 20 or so... 30.... we know that the atacms strikes have taken out at least 10 the strike last night is suspected of taking out 5 15 or less... -30+% for down for maint at any one time 10 ish.... known to have been produced in the last 2 years... about 4 so 14 total flyable at any one time... or less in a recent video released from the russian MOD the video showed a 4 ship KA-52 formation... 2 had Zs (central military dist), one had the harry potter sign (3rd corps), and one had the V (eastern military dist). so to get 4 aircraft up they are having to combine the entire force to get a mission going. and this will only get worse now that more and more long range rockets come on line. For ground vehicles...Russian Ground Forces had (on paper) 557 x T-80 variants pre-war. So far as of January 2024; 482 have been counted as lost by Oryx, or 86% of the pre-war force (!!!) It's quite clear that certain types of equipment are headed for exinction by simply counting the number of destroyed examples; and checking off against lists of what Russia had pre-war. |
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Quoted: Russia can natively produce 50 or so new tanks a month. They can repair a few hundred a month from their stockpiles. What's amazing anymore is that any free civilian can pay for a satellite to fly over, and take very high quality photos of anything in the world... Including Russian military bases. When the war started, those bases with thousands upon thousands of tanks were flown over. As the war dragged on, many made note of how the seemingly endless stockpile has drawn down. Many reported over a year ago Russia would have to use t62..... Many, including people here made fun of them. Then a few months onward, Vietnam era t62 showed up on the battlefield. Then some noted a handful of t55s were taken out of. Storage... More fun made.. Then a few t55s showed up. Russia will never 'run' out of tanks : they can natively make 50-60 a month . They will be monkey model t90m with... Issues like no thermals. Enough so that a m2 Bradley can kill one with its main gun, not even a tow. View Quote Anything later than a T-62 and even the mighty GAU8/A on the A-10 can't kill it, much less the Bushmaster on the Brad. |
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