He has more internet points so you're wrong.

"Falling behind" the Russians?  It took them 70 years to figure out how to put a proper safety selector on their AKs! 

Who the fuck is this guy?

Lol. I don't believe that there is a 15 moa shift from the M4 with RAS. I'd need hard proof of that.

OP....

Right?

I kinda want one of those AK-12s....

Now I have to move into a trash can.

I think OP is correct in that we need to upgrade our weapons. However, I don't think buying free float handguards is a good use of money right now. Developing an ultralight machine gun based off some flat-shooting cartridge would be a better use of money.

I can think of many more things the military needs before they spend money on better rifles. Training would be pretty high on that list. I don't think you guys understand how rare weapons training is across the military. The cool guys get plenty, as they should, but in other places it's possible to go years without touching a weapon. Some installations don't even have functioning ranges. It's a pretty sorry state of affairs, with some exceptions. Before we blow a billion buying everyone new handguards, maybe we should make sure people can make use of an accurate weapon. It's wasteful to give a 2 MOA weapon to a 30 MOA shooter.

Oh is this your first joglee thread? He's about to tell us our woes could be over if we would just adopt the HK416.

the AEK-971 has one wild gas system

You ever seen how well a general issue soldier can shoot? Free floating the barrel ain't gunna be like sprinkling eagle eye fairy dust on our troops.

6.5 Grendel 6.8 SPC II
6.5 Creedmoore

What's that last one, I'm not familiar?

Of all that stuff I only used a rifle in the korengal. 

That AK-12 looks like a bubba-fucked claptrap.  Wow.

This

You didn't make those hits. The Marine next to you did and you got some other Marine's target. Aren't you paying attention? 15MOA!!!!!!!!

Lmao Post of the year

More importantly, are we going to see a large surplus of AK-47 and AK-74 parts kits.

No argument there. But they did claim to adopt it, before they didn't.

The AK-12 is just a slightly redesigned AK-74. If you look at the old prototypes from 2013 or the trials guns they look interesting, but the latest versions appear to have dropped most of the innovative changes (decent safety selector and more sturdy railed dust-cover). Now it's just an AK with a railed dust cover and collapsing M4-style stock. It's an improvement but a modest one. The improvements to the gas system and barrel appear to be minor and the free-float attempt isn't impressive considering the reciprocating piston on top.

The AEK is actually interesting and innovative, and might be made for a few spec-ops guys before fading into obscurity like most new Russian guns. I hope a version comes to the US for civilian sale. If it works as well as early reports have said it would probably sell well here.

Is he an H&K stockholder? loool


These are facts.

From your keyboard to God's ears my friend.

15 MOA shift at 100 yds from firing off a barricade or using a hasty sling?  wtf OP, you're drunk

please tell me what additional forces are torquing the barrel when firing with the forearm resting on a barricade vs resting the forearm on a bench while zeroing

haha.  Thanks for clearing that up.

Would a new US service rifle be neat and nice? Of course. Is it a big deal? No.

This is one of the least effective ways the military can spend its money. Like, barely more effective than additional sexual harassment power points.

Other than a free float barrel and maybe a 1-4 or 1-6 variable optic, I think the M4A1 still outclasses these Russian rifles.

I love my AK though.

lol

Here are some recent pictures from Modern Firearms, which is a great website for Russian guns (and other guns, for that matter).

AK-12 2016 version:

There just isn't much here that hasn't been common in US civilian AKs for years. Free-float rail, railed dust-cover, better grip and stock. The better gas system might be good, and it looks like it might be adjustable which is nice. But it's a fairly minor improvement and probably not worth the effort to replace the AK-74.

The most recent AEK picture I could find, from the 2014 trials:

The stock, grip, and sights have clear HK influence (not a bad thing for its purpose). The balanced recoil system is one of the few actual innovations in firearms in recent years, if it actually works. So far the tests I've seen look very promising. The question will be if the Russians actually issue them in real quantities.

I see nothing here that outclasses the M4. They are both heavier by a couple pounds. Only the AEK shows any chance of being a significant improvement over what it replaces, and I don't recall many HSLD units around the world adopting AKs of any sort over the M4 when given the chance.

Based on your posts, ithink you overestimate the shit you know anything about...

I run a Colt 6920 with a KAC RAS in classes and in 3 gun comp.  I CAN NOT get a 15MOA shift if I tried.

Do you even know what 15MOA means?

Say what?  I typically don't ask...because it usually doesn't matter, but have you served?

Unadukterated garbage, get your unadulterated garbage heah!

Seriously, do you really believe this stuff?

What happened to the AN-94 (or whatever it was called)? Didn't live up to the hype?

They are called "free floating" barrel guns.  I don't see how a piston operated firearm could be considered free floating.

OP had a accuracy shift of 15MOA on his posts, should have used a free floating keyboard.

I know I'm possibly making myself a target by not completely piling on after seeing the otherwise unanimous response to this thread, but regardless of the merit of a FF on a military issue rifle, I can confirm that I measured a 9MOA shift with my AR last week by resting the muzzle end of the barrel against a barricade.

I run a 12" FF rail and usually can get part of the rail against a barricade for stabilization (when allowed) when shooting smaller targets in 3gun matches. At a recent match I was missing some of the 1-2MOA targets from a new-to-me barricade where I only had the option of resting the barrel on the barricade due to my setup (I usually don't miss so knew it had to be the gun). I at first didn't appreciate why as I run a heavy fluted barrel on my match rifle and felt the shift wouldn't be as large as I'd experienced on other guns, but as I could see my shots impacting high I just aimed low for hits and thought maybe I'd had a shift in my POA from dialing in the correction for the previous stage at 20 yards. But to pin down the problem I did some testing afterwards at my local range and discovered a 9MOA shift up in my POI when I rested the muzzle brake on a block on the bench. My group size was not impacted, just its location.

The easiest solution in my case is to remove my fore grip if I go back to that range so I can push the rifle farther forward when leaning over that barricade so I can get the FF rail to the support point on the barricade. I'll just have to practice firing that rifle without the fore grip as I've gotten used to it being there.

So, I'm not addressing the rest of the OP's talking points, but I will support that a sizable POI shift can occur from resting the barrel for support. Realize that resting on the muzzle end can more than double the moment arm from what a sling can or what resting a non-FF fore end can, so the resulting POI shift will be correspondingly larger. Get into the cantilevering of the barrel and the often smaller cross section of the forward part of the barrel and my test configuration is a worst case condition, but it does support the statement that large POI shifts can occur when imparting normal forces on the barrel.

you just proved that having a FF handguard has zero benefit if you're gonna mess up the barrel harmonic by resting the bare barrel on a hard object

Joglee thread.

It looks like hammered ass from a Soviet Arms factory circa 1970 on free Voda Lunch day.

He thinks we are talking about the shitass G36s that the Germany Army uses.

Okay, open challenge:

We need a live-fire video of the 15-MOA effect in a non free-float gun.  Maybe 5-shot groups at 100 yards shot rested with no pressure on the forearm or barrel vs groups shot to the same POA with the gun slung, rested against the forearm, rested against the barrel, maybe even one with some sort of constant extreme force exerted on the barrel.

same reaction I had. OP needs to push the reefer away

As I an another guy posted they are overly complicated POS. They were supposed to be adopted because RUSKIE AWESOME.....then they figured out that they were overly complicated POS when the vodka ran out. There were some made. One was shot by the LAV when he was in Ruskie land...if jammed so badly it need a commitee of about a half dozen guys to figure out WTF happened and uncrew it.

I actually got into a keyboard tussle over that POS with Dave Fortier once. I do not think my contention on the guns rational was proven right (rapid second shot to same POA POI as the first to penetrate ceramic body armor, which I believed was bullshit) mainly because the gun failed, which did prove my point that the gun was a POS. Cable in a gun WTF man.

Russia and communism have traditionally produced good theoreticians, and piss-poor engineers.  The AN-94 is a good example of that trend.  The notion of an ultra-fast 2-3 shot burst is sound, and should make for better hit probability.  The impractical designs for such a thing were killed off decades ago in the 1st world (Project SALVO, HK G11, etc).  The Rube Goldberg contraption that Soviet thinking came up with make it happen damn near went into production.  

I have never experienced 15 moa shift, even accumulated, after 35+ years starting with the M16A1.

OP, did you get this info from your LGS?, you could not have possibly served .mil.

OP, please seriously consider that the info you got from the dude who you respect and "schooled" you is completely wrong.  Consider the years of experience and combined expertise that these members have in participating in shooting sports that emphasize accuracy.

I would almost believe you have never personally compared a FF with a non-FF rifle.

How much force has to be exerted on a fixed M4-profile barrel to move the point of impact 15 inches at 100 yards?

Anyone got a barrel testing fixture?

Tell us about your combat experience.