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Quoted: Belgrano (ex-Pheonix) was a cruiser. Cruisers are not "capital warships": this term is usually reserved for battleships, battlecruisers, and aircraft carriers. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Whoa. That may cause an escalation from Moscow (if they have anything left to escalate with). Off the top of my head the last capital warship lost in combat was probably the General Belgrano during the Falkland War. Belgrano (ex-Pheonix) was a cruiser. Cruisers are not "capital warships": this term is usually reserved for battleships, battlecruisers, and aircraft carriers. So what would this Russian ship be classified as ? I'll admit I'm not that studied up on ships or Navy issues. |
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Quoted: I read too many books on WW2 naval battles growing up, it was a big factor in me choosing to be a Dirt Sailor instead of picking a Fleet going Rate. Getting blown up, burned or drowning (or a combination of the three) inside a ship is a shitty way to go, I'd rather take my chances on land. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: That would be a horrible fucking way to die. My late FIL had a cruiser shot under him at Savo Island. My Dad (RIP) was also a Pacific sailor in WWII, Purple Heart after a Kamikazi attack. After hearing their stories I joined the Army. |
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Quoted: So what would this Russian ship be classified as ? I'll admit I'm not that studied up on ships or Navy issues. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whoa. That may cause an escalation from Moscow (if they have anything left to escalate with). Off the top of my head the last capital warship lost in combat was probably the General Belgrano during the Falkland War. Belgrano (ex-Pheonix) was a cruiser. Cruisers are not "capital warships": this term is usually reserved for battleships, battlecruisers, and aircraft carriers. So what would this Russian ship be classified as ? I'll admit I'm not that studied up on ships or Navy issues. Considering the USN no longer uses two of those classes, and the Russians only have 3 ships total that meet that designation, with a grand total of what, 3 or 4 other vessels worldwide in those categories, I think we can consider cruisers to be capital ships. "Cruisers" have effectively replaced battlecruisers in operational usage in the past 75 years or so. |
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Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Nyet, brave missile cruiser now submarine, fighting fish Nazis. Very long mission, might not be back for while. How do you say "artificial reef" in Russian? "Kursk" It was only a temporary artificial reef. |
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Quoted: So what would this Russian ship be classified as ? I'll admit I'm not that studied up on ships or Navy issues. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whoa. That may cause an escalation from Moscow (if they have anything left to escalate with). Off the top of my head the last capital warship lost in combat was probably the General Belgrano during the Falkland War. Belgrano (ex-Pheonix) was a cruiser. Cruisers are not "capital warships": this term is usually reserved for battleships, battlecruisers, and aircraft carriers. So what would this Russian ship be classified as ? I'll admit I'm not that studied up on ships or Navy issues. "Guided missile cruiser" |
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Quoted: Guided missile cruiser. Pre-WWII "treaty cruisers" were around 10,000 ton displacement, this one was 3,000 ton more. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: So what would this Russian ship be classified as ? I'll admit I'm not that studied up on ships or Navy issues. Guided missile cruiser. Pre-WWII "treaty cruisers" were around 10,000 ton displacement, this one was 3,000 ton more. Serious question: how would an Iowa class hold up to a hit from a modern anti-ship missile? |
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Quoted: Serious question: how would an Iowa class hold up to a hit from a modern anti-ship missile? View Quote Depends on how many and which one and where. One harpoon or Exocet will most likely not do too much damage. One of the large Russian or Chinese supersonic ones and it will mess it up but probably Survive. More than 3-4 it’s over. |
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Quoted: Awhile ago I read a really detailed book about the Russian Baltic fleet sailing to Tsushima. The admiral in command had a bad habit. When he got mad he would throw his binoculars overboard. They stocked an extra 40 sets of binoculars aboard his ship. They were out of binoculars before they were out of sight of Europe. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: I don’t think the Russians have ever been great navy wise. Compared to their Russo Japanese war antics even their naval losses in this war make them look like Admial Horatio Nelson is leading them in comparison to 1904-1905. Drachinifel on YouTube has some hilarious videos on the subject if you get bored. But for example it was the last time a capital ship was captured like in the days of sail. Awhile ago I read a really detailed book about the Russian Baltic fleet sailing to Tsushima. The admiral in command had a bad habit. When he got mad he would throw his binoculars overboard. They stocked an extra 40 sets of binoculars aboard his ship. They were out of binoculars before they were out of sight of Europe. I like the part where the do a stop for supplies and people pick up boatloads of crazy exotic wildlife for pets then they have issues with wild animals running around on their ships causing mayhem spreading disease etc. |
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Quoted: Depends on how many and which one and where. One harpoon or Exocet will most likely not do too much damage. One of the large Russian or Chinese supersonic ones and it will mess it up but probably Survive. More than 3-4 it’s over. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Serious question: how would an Iowa class hold up to a hit from a modern anti-ship missile? Depends on how many and which one and where. One harpoon or Exocet will most likely not do too much damage. One of the large Russian or Chinese supersonic ones and it will mess it up but probably Survive. More than 3-4 it’s over. The Moskva carried 16 P-500 anti-ship missiles that can be armed with a 1000 kg HE warhead or a 350 kt nuclear warhead. |
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Quoted: This isn't a cell phone video of a car accident. This is OTH battle in rough seas. Any videos will be well after the fact and show burned out hull, or..., Nothing. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Modern hi def footage of a magazine explosion would be awesome too. This isn't a cell phone video of a car accident. This is OTH battle in rough seas. Any videos will be well after the fact and show burned out hull, or..., Nothing. Or it’s just an oil slick and no sign of the Moskva ever again. |
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Quoted: The Moskva carried 16 P-500 anti-ship missiles that can be armed with a 1000 kg HE warhead or a 350 kt nuclear warhead. View Quote Alright, who's got a submersible? Time to Jacques Cousteau this motherfucker. |
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Quoted: The ship was a completely legitimate target, and reasonable action for Ukraine. But that said I also was concerned about the reaction from Russia when I saw this. I get his point. I'm not even saying they shouldn't have done it, but it might have consequences. That is all I think you can assume from his post. Then again if they are trying to play it off as an accidental fire and not an attack from missiles maybe they'll shrug it off to avoid the embarrassment of admitting what happened. View Quote |
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Quoted: My late FIL had a cruiser shot under him at Savo Island. My Dad (RIP) was also a Pacific sailor in WWII, Purple Heart after a Kamikazi attack. After hearing their stories I joined the Army. View Quote |
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Quoted: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Russian_cruiser_Moskva.jpg Big old ship. 12,480 tons. I sailed along side these when they were Slava class cruisers. The big Sandbox missile launchers are very impressive. View Quote That's not even as big as the training ship I sailed on as a cadet in the 1970's. That was 533' and over 17,000 tons. I used to tow a barge that was 19,000 and change Deadweight tons. |
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Quoted: My late FIL had a cruiser shot under him at Savo Island. My Dad (RIP) was also a Pacific sailor in WWII, Purple Heart after a Kamikazi attack. After hearing their stories I joined the Army. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: That would be a horrible fucking way to die. My late FIL had a cruiser shot under him at Savo Island. My Dad (RIP) was also a Pacific sailor in WWII, Purple Heart after a Kamikazi attack. After hearing their stories I joined the Army. Same here. My father served from 44 to 69, fuck that noise. Army all the way! |
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Quoted: Do people here not understand war or something? In war... the assets of the person attacking you are generally legit targets... View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: The ship was a completely legitimate target, and reasonable action for Ukraine. But that said I also was concerned about the reaction from Russia when I saw this. I get his point. I'm not even saying they shouldn't have done it, but it might have consequences. That is all I think you can assume from his post. Then again if they are trying to play it off as an accidental fire and not an attack from missiles maybe they'll shrug it off to avoid the embarrassment of admitting what happened. Isn't that what I said ? Of course its a legitimate target. Doesn't mean it won't piss Putin off and bring retaliation though for the hit to his ego and Russian pride. |
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Quoted: Fun fact: At the fall of the USSR, they had 2 aircraft carriers, the Kuznetsov and the unfinished Varyag. The Varyag sat for years in the Mykolaiv shipyard until 1998 when Ukraine sold it to China. The Varyag is now China's first carrier, renamed the Liaoning. https://www.ar15.com/media/mediaFiles/327887/SmartSelect_20220413-221431_Brave_jpg-2348293.JPG View Quote They also had another class of carriers. One was sold to India and refitted and is in service with their navy. Two are being used as floating casinos by the ChiComs, who also studied them beforehand. I forget what happened to the fourth. They also had two big helicopter cruisers that were basically helicopter carries, as they had a sizeable helo air wing. |
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Quoted: This particular ship does not carry any land-attack cruise missiles. It’s main weapons are the SS-N-12 anti-ship missile and S-300F anti-air missile. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: … This was one of the primary ships firing all the Kaliber cruise missiles into Ukraine that had been killing lots of soldiers and civilians. … This particular ship does not carry any land-attack cruise missiles. It’s main weapons are the SS-N-12 anti-ship missile and S-300F anti-air missile. It was discovered that they had acquired a land attack capability during the Russo-Georgian War, when the Moskva launched SS-N-12s at shore targets. AFAIK, though, she hadn't done the same against Ukrainian targets. |
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Quoted: Belgrano (ex-Pheonix) was a cruiser. Cruisers are not "capital warships": this term is usually reserved for battleships, battlecruisers, and aircraft carriers. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Whoa. That may cause an escalation from Moscow (if they have anything left to escalate with). Off the top of my head the last capital warship lost in combat was probably the General Belgrano during the Falkland War. Belgrano (ex-Pheonix) was a cruiser. Cruisers are not "capital warships": this term is usually reserved for battleships, battlecruisers, and aircraft carriers. These days, they are basically capital ships. Only Russia still operates them, unless you count the Italian carriers and similar vessels as through-deck cruisers (which is kinda how they are used; one has a C prefix for its hull number) and count the Zumwalts (at least as conceived) as cruisers. Heck, most navies can't even afford destroyers or destroyer leaders (big destroyers with flag facilities). A replacement cruiser would be very expensive. Russia did design a replacement class, but they can't really afford to build it (Leader class, IIRC). |
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Quoted: Quoted:
They had some old leftover ex-USSR corvettes they used for coastal security. |
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Quoted: Serious question: how would an Iowa class hold up to a hit from a modern anti-ship missile? View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: So what would this Russian ship be classified as ? I'll admit I'm not that studied up on ships or Navy issues. Guided missile cruiser. Pre-WWII "treaty cruisers" were around 10,000 ton displacement, this one was 3,000 ton more. Serious question: how would an Iowa class hold up to a hit from a modern anti-ship missile? Depends on size of warhead. For most, it probably wouldn't notice. At worst, lots of sensors trashed. |
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Quoted: These days, they are basically capital ships. Only Russia still operates them, unless you count the Italian carriers and similar vessels as through-deck cruisers (which is kinda how they are used; one has a C prefix for its hull number) and count the Zumwalts (at least as conceived) as cruisers. Heck, most navies can't even afford destroyers or destroyer leaders (big destroyers with flag facilities). A replacement cruiser would be very expensive. Russia did design a replacement class, but they can't really afford to build it (Leader class, IIRC). View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Whoa. That may cause an escalation from Moscow (if they have anything left to escalate with). Off the top of my head the last capital warship lost in combat was probably the General Belgrano during the Falkland War. Belgrano (ex-Pheonix) was a cruiser. Cruisers are not "capital warships": this term is usually reserved for battleships, battlecruisers, and aircraft carriers. These days, they are basically capital ships. Only Russia still operates them, unless you count the Italian carriers and similar vessels as through-deck cruisers (which is kinda how they are used; one has a C prefix for its hull number) and count the Zumwalts (at least as conceived) as cruisers. Heck, most navies can't even afford destroyers or destroyer leaders (big destroyers with flag facilities). A replacement cruiser would be very expensive. Russia did design a replacement class, but they can't really afford to build it (Leader class, IIRC). Fortunately they are free'ing up a ton of O&M money this month, so there's that. |
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Quoted: Or will he be killed by a member of the inner circle because he WON`T launch nukes. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Putin will be killed by a member of his inner circle before nukes get launched. Or will he be killed by a member of the inner circle because he WON`T launch nukes. Because rich and powerful people want to have it all taken away from them and see the world turn to ash around them? Your line of reasoning makes zero sense. |
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Wow. That's a big loss, it's not just a flagship but also a big psychological blow.
Is it confirmed sunk? Because I'm seeing some reports say it's sunk and others just that it was badly damaged. Fingers crossed. |
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Quoted: This isn't a cell phone video of a car accident. This is OTH battle in rough seas. Any videos will be well after the fact and show burned out hull, or..., Nothing. View Quote View All Quotes View All Quotes Quoted: Quoted: Modern hi def footage of a magazine explosion would be awesome too. This isn't a cell phone video of a car accident. This is OTH battle in rough seas. Any videos will be well after the fact and show burned out hull, or..., Nothing. Sounds like it was a planned operation by the Ukranians. Supposedly used a Bayraktar as a distraction. I bet there’s drone footage. Will they release it…? |
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Quoted: Quoted: Maybe this is the Ukrainian retaliation for Russian baby raping? An escalation regardless… Ukrainians target and destroy a military target. Russians commit war crimes. Only in clown world is this an escalation. Once again, the Putin lovers have a bad day. |
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