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Posted: 6/6/2018 12:25:12 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The modern crop of adjustable pistol braces are essentially stocks. The only reason I'm not 100% sold is the potential for ATF ruling reversal down the road |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 12:28:11 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Poll fail, no "get both" |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 12:40:31 PM EDT
[#3]
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Posted: 6/6/2018 12:40:56 PM EDT
[#4]
as a guy who ONLY owns SBR's, my vote is - the brace is better.
- you can carry them loaded in your vehicle where some states wouldn't let you do that with a long arm or SBR. - you can hunt with them where some states wouldn't let you hunt with NFA. - you can travel with them without a 5320.20. - it's the only LEGAL way you can have a registration-free "SBR". - most importantly, you didn't have to spend the better part of a year waiting for them to take your money and put you in their database. again... you can buy it and shoot it the same day. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 1:24:02 PM EDT
[#5]
Are you able to shoulder a brace? My understanding is that we can't...
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Posted: 6/6/2018 1:30:38 PM EDT
[#6]
You know that weapon you own, that had to have all kinds or paperwork bs and then due to lazy gubment employees you had towait 6 months to 18 months to actually possess it, even though you passed all background checks and the supreme law of the land gurantees your right to own and use it, well we have some more paperwork and wait times for you if you have the audacity to take it on hunting or shooting trip out of state.
Yeah um no. Brace. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 2:38:04 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
SBR. Those silly brace things are gayer than Freddie Mercury rollerblading in cutoffs. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 2:43:36 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Poll fail, no "get both" |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 2:50:20 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: as a guy who ONLY owns SBR's, my vote is - the brace is better. - you can carry them loaded in your vehicle where some states wouldn't let you do that with a long arm or SBR. - you can hunt with them where some states wouldn't let you hunt with NFA. - you can travel with them without a 5320.20. - it's the only LEGAL way you can have a registration-free "SBR". - most importantly, you didn't have to spend the better part of a year waiting for them to take your money and put you in their database. again... you can buy it and shoot it the same day. My SBR has one purpose and one purpose only; home defense. A rifle is better on the roads. And here in my state it's legal. Concealed. Loaded. In the front seat. And I don’t drive out of state. I fly. I used a rifle to SBR, was already shooting it prior to and enjoyed it 
So yes, buy a rifle and do the paperwork and yes you can still shoot it on the very same day. Add the short barrel later when it's legit and easy peasy. We all don't universally agree on what we see the values of our guns no matter what configuration of legal terms. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 2:51:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Quoted:
Which is better and why? 
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Posted: 6/6/2018 3:08:22 PM EDT
[#11]
As someone who has had recently done the Pistol to SBR back to Pistol (Remove From Registry) path I have something to say about this. This works for me others it may not but alas its something that I went through and now find to be what works.
Pistols as in handguns are in 9mm, Everything else (Rifle, Carbine, Braced Pistol AR's) 556. I have standardized everything on 9 and 556. The Browning 22 lr pistol once sold will be it. SBR is the ultimate Home Defense Weapon. A 556 AR with a 12.5" Middy Suppressed or 11.5" Carbine Suppressed is best a dedicated for HOME ONLY weapon. Only taking it to the range to train for the day some asshole comes asking for holes to be inserted through him. Braced Pistols with 10.5 carbine or probably the best is a 8.5 - 7.5 pistol Unsuppressed BUT with a Blast diffuser are for the travel outside of your state. Small discrete and easy to store and LOTS of firepower on tap in a very small space. Separate the upper and the lower and you have something that can easily store in luggage. For those that say suppressor makes it quieter. YES but As soon as you do that you might as well have a SBR because you are going to have to tell the ATF about the suppressor anyway. Once I with an SBR went to The north GA mountains to a private range, then over to Helen, then back north crossed into north Carolina, then West through the Cherokee national forest, up into Gatlinburg, and then over into TN, and then finally back down into ga via I75. BIG trip. Forgot about the SBR thing. Thought about it as I was crossing back into GA. YEAH pucker factor was big. WHOLE time I was oblivious and forgot. Never did that trip again with the SBR'ed scorpions and have since sold them. Now the only SBRs are 556. and handguns are 9mm. Do plan on getting a 556 Pistol maybe a Saint for travel. Life is "believe it or not" easier. When it comes to travel. YMMV though. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 3:17:44 PM EDT
[#12]
I have both. I will only buy braced pistols now. The more people that do, the better we all will be. Braces today are a far cry from that awful Sig brace we started with.
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Posted: 6/6/2018 3:20:57 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Unless you want a vertical forward grip.  Over 26” with a brace makes vfg’s a non issue. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 3:29:16 PM EDT
[#14]
Pistol braces are gross.
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Posted: 6/6/2018 3:34:12 PM EDT
[#15]
Braces are imitation crab meat. Looks the same, tastes similar but not the real thing.
And you can't have VFG's |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 3:41:10 PM EDT
[#16]
Get both. And for the time being, I am not submitting anymore form 1s because I like the Shockwave brace. I love my NFA items, but the brace almost makes filing the paperwork useless. Almost.
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Posted: 6/6/2018 3:41:12 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Pistol braces are gross. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 4:04:22 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have 5 SBRs and I say brace is better. Does everything an SBR does but also can ride in the vehicle as a concealed weapon and travel over state lines without permission from BATFE. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 4:15:56 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Get both. And for the time being, I am not submitting anymore form 1s because I like the Shockwave brace. I love my NFA items, but the brace almost makes filing the paperwork useless. Almost. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/337946/photoude-481943.jpg Trying to speak as though it's indisputably almost useless, swing and a miss. Pistol parts on a rifle is useless to me. I have no gains and no use of value with it. I gain nothing and money is wasted. But again, only speaking for me is my point. This divide and conquer approach is not the answer. You pistol guys do you. I don’t lose sleep over people liking and buying it. Just don't try to speak for us SBR only people on what is or isn't useless as an absolute among us gun owners on both sides because it can be arguably not validated. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 4:19:06 PM EDT
[#20]
As a guy who only owns SBR's pistols are better. I say this only to deter you pistol homo's from clogging up the stamp wait time.
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Posted: 6/6/2018 4:33:09 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
To you in your own personal opinion almost useless? I can respect that. Trying to speak as though it's indisputably almost useless, swing and a miss. Pistol parts on a rifle is useless to me. I have no gains and no use of value with it. I gain nothing and money is wasted. But again, only speaking for me is my point. This divide and conquer approach is not the answer. You pistol guys do you. I don’t lose sleep over people liking and buying it. Just don't try to speak for us SBR only people on what is or isn't useless as an absolute among us gun owners on both sides because it can be arguably not validated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Get both. And for the time being, I am not submitting anymore form 1s because I like the Shockwave brace. I love my NFA items, but the brace almost makes filing the paperwork useless. Almost. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/337946/photoude-481943.jpg Trying to speak as though it's indisputably almost useless, swing and a miss. Pistol parts on a rifle is useless to me. I have no gains and no use of value with it. I gain nothing and money is wasted. But again, only speaking for me is my point. This divide and conquer approach is not the answer. You pistol guys do you. I don’t lose sleep over people liking and buying it. Just don't try to speak for us SBR only people on what is or isn't useless as an absolute among us gun owners on both sides because it can be arguably not validated. You consistently seemed to get triggered over brace guys, but I never see you jumping the people who call the brace owners gay. You want some unity? Unity FOR WHAT? Getting SBRs off the NFA should be the goal. Stop replying to the people who are defending themselves from the pro-registration crowd. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 4:53:21 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's the deal. The SBR folks drew first blood here and consistently come to shit on the pistol braces—PERIOD. To deny that is to be completely oblivious. You consistently seemed to get triggered over brace guys, but I never see you jumping the people who call the brace owners gay. You want some unity? Unity FOR WHAT? Getting SBRs off the NFA should be the goal. Stop replying to the people who are defending themselves from the pro-registration crowd. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Get both. And for the time being, I am not submitting anymore form 1s because I like the Shockwave brace. I love my NFA items, but the brace almost makes filing the paperwork useless. Almost. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/337946/photoude-481943.jpg Trying to speak as though it's indisputably almost useless, swing and a miss. Pistol parts on a rifle is useless to me. I have no gains and no use of value with it. I gain nothing and money is wasted. But again, only speaking for me is my point. This divide and conquer approach is not the answer. You pistol guys do you. I don’t lose sleep over people liking and buying it. Just don't try to speak for us SBR only people on what is or isn't useless as an absolute among us gun owners on both sides because it can be arguably not validated. You consistently seemed to get triggered over brace guys, but I never see you jumping the people who call the brace owners gay. You want some unity? Unity FOR WHAT? Getting SBRs off the NFA should be the goal. Stop replying to the people who are defending themselves from the pro-registration crowd. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 5:04:43 PM EDT
[#23]
Pistol. SBR owners are whiney bitches.
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Posted: 6/6/2018 5:10:08 PM EDT
[#24]
Well, as has been stated, it's easier to cross state lines with a pistol brace. But on the other hand, you can't compete in the PCC class in USPSA with a pistol brace.
So if either of those things matter to you at all, then you have your answer. If you don't plan on taking it across state lines, and don't shoot competitively, it profoundly doesn't matter. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 5:15:03 PM EDT
[#25]
I have three SBRs. If I had to do a new AR SBR, I would go with the brace.
http://palmettostatearmory.com/psa-ar-15-complete-moe-ept-pistol-lower-with-sbpdw-brace-no-magazine-black-516446451.html Is what I would do. That said...I do like my SBRs :) Also I think it depends on the gun. My Scorpion, I'm not bracing that. The OEM stock looks and feels too good. AR, yeah I'll brace one. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 6:22:52 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have two braces, no SBRs. They were recently re-legalized in Iowa but I haven't taken the plunge yet. Out of curiosity, do you have to notify ATF if you cross state lines with an SBR'd lower but keep a 16" upper on it? |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 6:45:47 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Here's the deal. The SBR folks drew first blood here and consistently come to shit on the pistol braces—PERIOD. To deny that is to be completely oblivious. You consistently seemed to get triggered over brace guys, but I never see you jumping the people who call the brace owners gay. You want some unity? Unity FOR WHAT? Getting SBRs off the NFA should be the goal. Stop replying to the people who are defending themselves from the pro-registration crowd. But things over the years has given me cause to be polarized. Have you seen one person who runs their sucks for a brace, ever seen a rifle with braces too? Well I haven't and I've looked. Yet so many come in saying muh blah blah is just as good as your stock but not ine of them posting their toys in the various pic threads have muh brace on legal lengths. That's some grifty zero effective meters crap right there, saying one thing and then contradicting yourself. I've seen the same arguments with the F pinned and welded a 14.5, muh 16 is better. If there no NFA laws or at least no SBR laws, these same 16 or die would all be running with 14.5's and telling everyone why their 14.5 is now suddenly better than their former 16. Just say that you're too cheap or can't be bothered because you're just that lazy instead of being a hypocritical twit. This isall about money and there are some really cheap tightwads in here who will argue all of the above and then try to find threads to defend their cheap Tula minute of barn ammo. Put brass ammo at Tula prices and suddenly brass is better than muh Tula. Money makes you all do the stupidest contradictory things to argue over. Highly quixotic possibly even. I'm on your side but I am not affraid to wait and do the hoops and paying the man. If the NFA went away, hell yeah and wouldn’t blink ivee the 200 dollar losses. Money well spent during the dark days is how I look at it. I'll keep doing it until then, it's my money and not up to anyone else to decide if it pays the man or not to begin with. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 7:08:19 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, as has been stated, it's easier to cross state lines with a pistol brace. But on the other hand, you can't compete in the PCC class in USPSA with a pistol brace. So if either of those things matter to you at all, then you have your answer. If you don't plan on taking it across state lines, and don't shoot competitively, it profoundly doesn't matter. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 7:08:43 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's the thing, I came onto this site while that war was already in progress. Over who fired what shots first, under normal rational thinking I'd agree with you. But things over the years has given me cause to be polarized. Have you seen one person who runs their sucks for a brace, ever seen a rifle with braces too? Well I haven't and I've looked. Yet so many come in saying muh blah blah is just as good as your stock but not ine of them posting their toys in the various pic threads have muh brace on legal lengths. That's some grifty zero effective meters crap right there, saying one thing and then contradicting yourself. I've seen the same arguments with the F pinned and welded a 14.5, muh 16 is better. If there no NFA laws or at least no SBR laws, these same 16 or die would all be running with 14.5's and telling everyone why their 14.5 is now suddenly better than their former 16. Just say that you're too cheap or can't be bothered because you're just that lazy instead of being a hypocritical twit. This isall about money and there are some really cheap tightwads in here who will argue all of the above and then try to find threads to defend their cheap Tula minute of barn ammo. Put brass ammo at Tula prices and suddenly brass is better than muh Tula. Money makes you all do the stupidest contradictory things to argue over. Highly quixotic possibly even. I'm on your side but I am not affraid to wait and do the hoops and paying the man. If the NFA went away, hell yeah and wouldn’t blink ivee the 200 dollar losses. Money well spent during the dark days is how I look at it. I'll keep doing it until then, it's my money and not up to anyone else to decide if it pays the man or not to begin with. 
It's funny because I just had a guy say on my FB feed that he wanted to put the SB Tactical PDW on his 14.5" pinned (I think you even posted on it). 
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Posted: 6/6/2018 7:11:38 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Here's the thing, I came onto this site while that war was already in progress. Over who fired what shots first, under normal rational thinking I'd agree with you. But things over the years has given me cause to be polarized. Have you seen one person who runs their sucks for a brace, ever seen a rifle with braces too? Well I haven't and I've looked. Yet so many come in saying muh blah blah is just as good as your stock but not ine of them posting their toys in the various pic threads have muh brace on legal lengths. That's some grifty zero effective meters crap right there, saying one thing and then contradicting yourself. I've seen the same arguments with the F pinned and welded a 14.5, muh 16 is better. If there no NFA laws or at least no SBR laws, these same 16 or die would all be running with 14.5's and telling everyone why their 14.5 is now suddenly better than their former 16. Just say that you're too cheap or can't be bothered because you're just that lazy instead of being a hypocritical twit. This isall about money and there are some really cheap tightwads in here who will argue all of the above and then try to find threads to defend their cheap Tula minute of barn ammo. Put brass ammo at Tula prices and suddenly brass is better than muh Tula. Money makes you all do the stupidest contradictory things to argue over. Highly quixotic possibly even. I'm on your side but I am not affraid to wait and do the hoops and paying the man. If the NFA went away, hell yeah and wouldn’t blink ivee the 200 dollar losses. Money well spent during the dark days is how I look at it. I'll keep doing it until then, it's my money and not up to anyone else to decide if it pays the man or not to begin with. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Here's the deal. The SBR folks drew first blood here and consistently come to shit on the pistol braces—PERIOD. To deny that is to be completely oblivious. You consistently seemed to get triggered over brace guys, but I never see you jumping the people who call the brace owners gay. You want some unity? Unity FOR WHAT? Getting SBRs off the NFA should be the goal. Stop replying to the people who are defending themselves from the pro-registration crowd. But things over the years has given me cause to be polarized. Have you seen one person who runs their sucks for a brace, ever seen a rifle with braces too? Well I haven't and I've looked. Yet so many come in saying muh blah blah is just as good as your stock but not ine of them posting their toys in the various pic threads have muh brace on legal lengths. That's some grifty zero effective meters crap right there, saying one thing and then contradicting yourself. I've seen the same arguments with the F pinned and welded a 14.5, muh 16 is better. If there no NFA laws or at least no SBR laws, these same 16 or die would all be running with 14.5's and telling everyone why their 14.5 is now suddenly better than their former 16. Just say that you're too cheap or can't be bothered because you're just that lazy instead of being a hypocritical twit. This isall about money and there are some really cheap tightwads in here who will argue all of the above and then try to find threads to defend their cheap Tula minute of barn ammo. Put brass ammo at Tula prices and suddenly brass is better than muh Tula. Money makes you all do the stupidest contradictory things to argue over. Highly quixotic possibly even. I'm on your side but I am not affraid to wait and do the hoops and paying the man. If the NFA went away, hell yeah and wouldn’t blink ivee the 200 dollar losses. Money well spent during the dark days is how I look at it. I'll keep doing it until then, it's my money and not up to anyone else to decide if it pays the man or not to begin with. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 7:15:33 PM EDT
[#31]
One other thing. Without the NFA, I think I would actually like 16" better. I only have the 14.5 pinned because it's cool looking with my NSR and ever so slightly lighter. I'm not above admitting that.
 Attached File |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 7:33:59 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
One other thing. Without the NFA, I think I would actually like 16" better. I only have the 14.5 pinned because it's cool looking with my NSR and ever so slightly lighter. I'm not above admitting that. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/75400/fullsizeoutput_1bf8-567807.JPG 
I have every barrel length and gas system except for pistol gas tubes and anything shorter than a 10.3 for barrels. I really have fun and enjoy them all equally. Wait no, I actually hate my A1 clone but will still keep enjoying it despite the brass to this southpaw's face 
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Posted: 6/6/2018 7:34:18 PM EDT
[#33]
I like them.
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Posted: 6/6/2018 7:34:48 PM EDT
[#34]
double
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Posted: 6/6/2018 7:35:28 PM EDT
[#35]
triple!
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Posted: 6/6/2018 8:34:15 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm all for you being happy with your paperworked guns. Most people who go the brace route are reacting to the stupid meme bragging about how SBRs are so much more "hot" than a brace, when everyone who gets one is holding their hands out asking for something that should be theirs with no stipulations. 
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Posted: 6/6/2018 8:35:55 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I'm all for you being happy with your paperworked guns. Most people who go the brace route are reacting to the stupid meme bragging about how SBRs are so much more "hot" than a brace, when everyone who gets one is holding their hands out asking for something that should be theirs with no stipulations. https://i.imgflip.com/2br9s8.jpg 
The brace people didn't go down the "hot" route. The lesbo kiss meme did. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 8:39:24 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have 5 SBRs and I say brace is better. Does everything an SBR does but also can ride in the vehicle as a concealed weapon and travel over state lines without permission from BATFE. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 8:40:48 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uh yeah, I suppose I forgot to mention that little $200ea thing. Touche'. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: This. And, no stamp. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 8:41:28 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I live on the state line and cross it daily. I dont like all the bs associated with SBRs, suppressors, and such. My favorite gun right now is my 10.5" AR pistol. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 9:00:59 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This is all about money and there are some really cheap tightwads in here who will argue all of the above and then try to find threads to defend their cheap Tula minute of barn ammo. Put brass ammo at Tula prices and suddenly brass is better than muh Tula. Money makes you all do the stupidest contradictory things to argue over. Highly quixotic possibly even. I'm on your side but I am not affraid to wait and do the hoops and paying the man. If the NFA went away, hell yeah and wouldn’t blink ivee the 200 dollar losses. Money well spent during the dark days is how I look at it. I'll keep doing it until then, it's my money and not up to anyone else to decide if it pays the man or not to begin with. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 9:43:42 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Suppressors don't need permission slips for state lines I was always told ANY NFA anything 5320.20 to cross the state lines. Didn't matter?? AM I wrong. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 10:00:25 PM EDT
[#43]
SBRs are definitely cooler but in my state you can't have a loaded rifle in your vehicle.
CPL with pistol brace works. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 10:37:34 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wait what??? I was always told ANY NFA anything 5320.20 to cross the state lines. Didn't matter?? AM I wrong. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Suppressors don't need permission slips for state lines I was always told ANY NFA anything 5320.20 to cross the state lines. Didn't matter?? AM I wrong. |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 11:03:34 PM EDT
[#45]
So if I don't SBR a rifle will I stay off the .gov radar?
That seems to be only real argument on why not to do it. But if it gets to "that point" wouldn't it be time to pop pmags anyway? |
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Posted: 6/6/2018 11:11:11 PM EDT
[#46]
i've got braces on my PTR mp5 clone, CZ scorpion, and 2 AR lowers. I've got paperwork in a stamp for a 10.3" AR SBR. Can I just swap the upper between the SBR and pistol lower if I'm crossing state lines?
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Posted: 6/6/2018 11:11:30 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryOk, I think that did it....Im gettin one.
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Posted: 6/6/2018 11:18:24 PM EDT
[#48]
I am assuming you are talking about AR pattern weapons. I have both and like both. Had decent braces like my new SBA3 been available six years ago when I did my AR SBR, I would've never sent off for that stamp. My PS90 SBR is another story entirely.
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Posted: 6/6/2018 11:30:04 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if I don't SBR a rifle will I stay off the .gov radar? That seems to be only real argument on why not to do it. But if it gets to "that point" wouldn't it be time to pop pmags anyway? |
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Posted: 6/7/2018 1:01:32 AM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if I don't SBR a rifle will I stay off the .gov radar? That seems to be only real argument on why not to do it. But if it gets to "that point" wouldn't it be time to pop pmags anyway? |
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