Quoted:


they bring in UN troops from countries that hate Americans

Quoted:

.................

I edited that post to reflect the idea. Civil war would almost certainly have to ensue. I'm not about killing Americans on American soil - and the thought actually makes me feel a little sick.

In short - we would have to become what we despise to win. Is that the way you want to win? Selling yourself out like that? Do we want to be the "American Al-Queda"? Would/Should we doom the country for an idea?

Quoted:

................

No. I don't want to live in a world without freedom. I don't want my children to live in a world without it.

I'd like to think that going around shooting people because they voted for XXX person isn't the answer - and should be pretty much regarded as "wrong". Which is what I was getting at with that extremely poorly worded post. The leadership would certainly have to go if you're going to have some sort of revolution or whatever, but how do you deal with the people who put them there?

The answer some would posit here doesn't sit well with me, as it should many.


 

Quoted:

If we go full SHTF - what do we do?

Quoted:
The SAFE Act doesn't rely upon confiscation,just the occasional charges to scare the majority into quiet non-compliance. It's the same as the NFA really and the 94-04 AWB.  Door to door roundups are neither necessary or realistic. It's not about removing all the guns,it's about changing the culture of ownership.
  It's not about those who own arms,it's about the children and grandchildren of gun owners not growing up with them as acceptable and not seeing the ownership of them as a fundamental right.

Quoted:
So, admittedly, I'm not sure how legal this is according to CoC 4 - so I'll tread lightly.

How would we (constitutionals, liberty oriented folks, etc.) even function cohesively? Obviously, the internet wouldn't be a safe place to discuss resistance - there is no OPSEC or PERSEC.

I hear on here that "Cops would never support confiscation!" I don't believe it. They have families, they need money, they need their jobs. If they don't support confiscation, they will quickly be replaced with those who will.

I hear on here that "The military would never support confiscation!" - read the previous line again.

In light of the other thread asking why so many are adamant about a revolution, I'll pose the following question - how do you resist effectively without being killed immediately? When/where/how does it end?

Resisting confiscation (successfully) would be against every precedent that has ever been set. China, Russia, England, Australia, Japan - they all surrendered their guns (many willingly). Many  sold their friends and family out for scraps of food, or promotions from within the party.

Today while sitting at home - I realized that there is a strong, non-zero chance that things may take a turn for the worst. If we go full SHTF - what do we do?

<Changed title since it has nothing to do with Trump - Z>

Quoted:
There would be a war

Quoted:
Look at the Kelo ruling. It had mainstream people calling for armed revolt. This resulted in legislation that pretty much nullified the ruling. The Courts need to understand that their purpose is to protect us from the excesses of the other two branches of Government

This is also why I think the adversarial relationship between the parties and branches of government is not a bad thing.

Quoted:
Place holder for some math......

Ok, ready?........



First, a little anecdotal experience and stories.

In Iraq, my battalion was attached to a Combat brigade with armor and artillery assests. For an entire month our forces were kept at bay and seriously influenced our patrols and missions because of one gunman. A half assed trained "sniper".

One man

Vs the greates military on earth.


A couple years ago over 6,000 law enforcement officers and military descended onto the Boston area and were "kept on their toes/kept at bay" because of two twats with a "crock pot" and a pistol.

Two turds vs over 6,000 seasoned LEOs and military with gear far beyond your average cargo pockets.



Ok, ready?.....


There are over 85,000,000 gun owners. If tomorrow FBHO signed an executive order ordering confiscation or if Congress somehow acted to pass a law granting the power of confiscation to the federal government heres what would happen:

90% would turn them in immediately. No questions asked.

So now there's only 8,500,000 million gun owners. Wow, that is an epic shit ton. But don't worry. The FBI and ATF will conduct a joint raid with local LEOs on an area in some conservative state with a vocal activist. There will be a shoot out. Protester will die as well as a LEO or two. That won't bode well as support will dwindle. Wives and families of the "holdouts" will give you ultimatums and put additional pressure on them to turn in their guns. Of those holdouts, 90% will turn them in after seeing the bloody carnage on CNN and MSM and not want to put their family in jeopardy...or risk 30 years in a FPMITAP

So now there's only 850,000 gun owners left. Wow, that is still a shit ton. And most likely the ones who own more than one gun. And probably have few extra mags on hand.

Guess what? Of those left, 99% of them are either in piss poor shape to fight from old age or injury or just too damn stupid to hide them effectively (probably ran there mouth to friends/family or on social media. Slowly me the raids will filter them and their weapons out. The stories that surface will help to soften the will to fight for many.


So now what? What are we left with? 1% of 10% of 10% of the orginal. That's........8,500.

8,500 men...and don't kid yourself, there's at best a few females in that number....men who are squared jawed, steely eyed killers. Men who not just own guns, but NVGs, gear, food, and are smart enough to not have it around. Men smart enough to blend. Men smart enough to know how to hit and run. Men who are not living in basements and typing away about masturbatory revolution fantasies on the Internet.

Harsh measures will be taken against these men....so harsh that the tide of public opinion sways. You see, to get to these men you'll have to drone strike an entire neighborhood or be willing to use force so excessive that there is no way you can keep the ignorant public on your side.

Tyranny can never succeed if you take the power from the people overnight.



Which is why, instead of a gun ban....they will whittle away at gun ownership through regulation until the number of gun owners is so low that banning them overnight won't be more than taking them away from a few thousand people.


We're several years from that. Starvation is more effective than gun confiscation in the short term

Quoted:
So, admittedly, I'm not sure how legal this is according to CoC 4 - so I'll tread lightly.

How would we (constitutionals, liberty oriented folks, etc.) even function cohesively? Obviously, the internet wouldn't be a safe place to discuss resistance - there is no OPSEC or PERSEC.

I hear on here that "Cops would never support confiscation!" I don't believe it. They have families, they need money, they need their jobs. If they don't support confiscation, they will quickly be replaced with those who will.

I hear on here that "The military would never support confiscation!" - read the previous line again.

In light of the other thread asking why so many are adamant about a revolution, I'll pose the following question - how do you resist effectively without being killed immediately? When/where/how does it end?

Resisting confiscation (successfully) would be against every precedent that has ever been set. China, Russia, England, Australia, Japan - they all surrendered their guns (many willingly). Many  sold their friends and family out for scraps of food, or promotions from within the party.

Today while sitting at home - I realized that there is a strong, non-zero chance that things may take a turn for the worst. If we go full SHTF - what do we do?

<Changed title since it has nothing to do with Trump - Z>

Quoted:
In such a situation, it would be impractical and perhaps immoral to go "Stalin or Pol Pot" after people because of how they voted (although some of them could be categorized as enemies). It would be fruitless to go after leaders. Solzhenitsyn knew what should be done.

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

Quoted:




In such a situation, it would be impractical and perhaps immoral to go "Stalin or Pol Pot" after people because of how they voted (although some of them could be categorized as enemies). It would be fruitless to go after leaders. Solzhenitsyn knew what should be done.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling with terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?... The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin's thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough. And even more – we had no awareness of the real situation.... We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”

Quoted:

My point, exactly. Logistically, and practically, there is no command structure, supply structure or place to organize.



"We" are gonna roll over and take it.