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Posted: 9/4/2019 3:05:06 PM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You lost me at Army pistol scores. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Something I don't get about the "get a glock" view... Chuck from Presscheck has said multiple times, that he was issued both 1911s and Glocks while in the Army. His numerical pistols scores were demonstrably lower with the Glocks....and that isn't with stock Glocks. No matter how you slice it, the top 1% of shooters can run a 1911 better than they can run a Glock. For the other 99%, the value added is questionable...but for that 1%... I see no issue with the guys who can run in that 1%, having 1% guns. |
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Posted: 9/4/2019 3:23:54 PM EST
[#2]
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Which tier 1 military units rely on their pistol as their primary weapon??? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: So which “tier 1” military units are currently using 2011s? |
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Posted: 9/4/2019 4:50:12 PM EST
[#3]
Quoted: Mag tuning is not difficult. Atlas has a series of videos that walks you through it. I tuned 5 myself in a couple hours. All hold 20 rounds of .40 and cost under $100 a piece. STI Gen 1 tubes Dawson SNL bases Grams spring and follower I didn't have good luck with Taran followers. |
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Posted: 9/4/2019 5:08:51 PM EST
[#4]
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I’ll look them up. I use your exact combination for my 3 Edge mags and with no tuning they’ve been 100% with both factory length 40 and long loaded 40. It’s only my 9’s that have given me problems. Atlas Vid Pliers |
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Posted: 9/4/2019 5:11:06 PM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No matter how you slice it, the top 1% of shooters can run a 1911 better than they can run a Glock. For the other 99%, the value added is questionable...but for that 1%... That and capacity and weight, and the G19 became a no brainer. |
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Posted: 9/4/2019 6:22:53 PM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You can get a bone stock Shadow for about $900 these days. $2k for a factory reliable 2011 is a pretty solid deal, I agree. |
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Posted: 9/4/2019 11:54:27 PM EST
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You lost me at Army pistol scores. |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 12:11:00 AM EST
[#8]
why does the mil have such a think for pistols with giant grips and short barrels?
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Posted: 9/5/2019 12:39:14 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
why does the mil have such a think for pistols with giant grips and short barrels? There have also been many reasons stated for full size grips with 4" bbls stated over and over again in the G19X and G45 threads.but in the end people make up their mind against the concept based on abstract ideas of what's "correct" instead of context, new ideas, and uses they may not have a need for. |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 12:43:52 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
why does the mil have such a think for pistols with giant grips and short barrels?  And these are basic service pistol barrel lengths that have been around for a very long time. |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 1:37:13 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Which tier 1 military units rely on their pistol as their primary weapon??? |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 2:05:48 AM EST
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some top of the line STIs are, but non RMR'd version has a MSRP of $2k which you can find for below and the LE discount is generous I'm told. I didn't want to use LE pricing as the direct comparison since I'm not LE and have to buy at whatever price I can find available, plus there might be CZ LE pricing I am not aware of. |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 8:47:03 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Reportedly SOG and others who have tested both the Staccato-p (4") and staccato-p5 (5") think the shorter barrel tracks better with a red dot and has better reliability over the 5" with longer maintainence intervals. There have also been many reasons stated for full size grips with 4" bbls stated over and over again in the G19X and G45 threads.but in the end people make up their mind against the concept based on abstract ideas of what's "correct" instead of context, new ideas, and uses they may not have a need for. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
why does the mil have such a think for pistols with giant grips and short barrels? There have also been many reasons stated for full size grips with 4" bbls stated over and over again in the G19X and G45 threads.but in the end people make up their mind against the concept based on abstract ideas of what's "correct" instead of context, new ideas, and uses they may not have a need for. Its subtle but noticeable, especially when shooting with a compromised grip, weak hand only etc. Same is true for lighter/faster projectiles. Less time in the bore, less time for bad follow through to throw the shot. |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 8:55:04 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
why does the mil have such a think for pistols with giant grips and short barrels? |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 9:19:21 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Absolutely, when the 1911 runs. It hurts me at times to be a Glock convert, because I love 1911s, I just saw and experienced way more malfunctions with the 1911s over the Glocks. That and capacity and weight, and the G19 became a no brainer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No matter how you slice it, the top 1% of shooters can run a 1911 better than they can run a Glock. For the other 99%, the value added is questionable...but for that 1%... That and capacity and weight, and the G19 became a no brainer. I get the math...and you are correct...but there is still that 1% of guys who are racecar divers and can drive a car to its full potential. I get the reloads...round counts...weight...it makes sense...but X counts don't lie either. It will always be mission specific...I wouldn't run around Helmand with a 1911...but I would want the guy coming through the aircraft door to rescue me from terrorists to be sporting a 1911 of some variety. You just have to issue 5 of them...a duty...2x training, 2x down for maintenance. |
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Posted: 9/5/2019 10:47:24 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I carry a Glock...but I'm also not a top 1% shooter. I get the math...and you are correct...but there is still that 1% of guys who are racecar divers and can drive a car to its full potential. I get the reloads...round counts...weight...it makes sense...but X counts don't lie either. It will always be mission specific...I wouldn't run around Helmand with a 1911...but I would want the guy coming through the aircraft door to rescue me from terrorists to be sporting a 1911 of some variety. You just have to issue 5 of them...a duty...2x training, 2x down for maintenance. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No matter how you slice it, the top 1% of shooters can run a 1911 better than they can run a Glock. For the other 99%, the value added is questionable...but for that 1%... That and capacity and weight, and the G19 became a no brainer. I get the math...and you are correct...but there is still that 1% of guys who are racecar divers and can drive a car to its full potential. I get the reloads...round counts...weight...it makes sense...but X counts don't lie either. It will always be mission specific...I wouldn't run around Helmand with a 1911...but I would want the guy coming through the aircraft door to rescue me from terrorists to be sporting a 1911 of some variety. You just have to issue 5 of them...a duty...2x training, 2x down for maintenance. I love 1911’s and 2011’s and once it exhibited reliability I would have no problem carrying one but for most hard use stuff something like a glock is hard to beat. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 8:42:22 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So... in a nutshell you are saying that in the last couple years STI has redesigned their guns and mags to be reliable from the factory? Rather than dropping vague and unnecessary insults ("there is a lot of stupid in this thread") why don't you give us some more specifics about what you know that others might not? I have always wanted to like the 2011 but my personal observations of them failing in use has eliminated them from consideration for me. If something significant has changed, I would certainly reconsider. Quote HistoryQuoted:
So... in a nutshell you are saying that in the last couple years STI has redesigned their guns and mags to be reliable from the factory? Rather than dropping vague and unnecessary insults ("there is a lot of stupid in this thread") why don't you give us some more specifics about what you know that others might not? I have always wanted to like the 2011 but my personal observations of them failing in use has eliminated them from consideration for me. If something significant has changed, I would certainly reconsider. Quoted:
STI switched owners in 2018. The new owners poured a shitload of money and machinery into developing a duty-ready pistol. They also pared the line of pistols down to a Comp line and Duty line. Further, they had the magazines re-designed and switched the mag manufacture to a major magazine company. The new mags are nothing like the old mags that needed to be "tuned." They had Dawson of Dawson Precision come on as a consultant to train all of the gunsmiths who assemble the guns and improve processes. I am purchasing one, at the special guy price, and will carry it on duty after I get about 2k rounds and a lot of draws and manipulation practice with it. It will replace my Nighthawk Costa. The real problem with STI's for duty is duty holster availability. |
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Posted: 9/6/2019 8:43:12 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So... in a nutshell you are saying that in the last couple years STI has redesigned their guns and mags to be reliable from the factory? Rather than dropping vague and unnecessary insults ("there is a lot of stupid in this thread") why don't you give us some more specifics about what you know that others might not? I have always wanted to like the 2011 but my personal observations of them failing in use has eliminated them from consideration for me. If something significant has changed, I would certainly reconsider. Quote HistoryQuoted:
So... in a nutshell you are saying that in the last couple years STI has redesigned their guns and mags to be reliable from the factory? Rather than dropping vague and unnecessary insults ("there is a lot of stupid in this thread") why don't you give us some more specifics about what you know that others might not? I have always wanted to like the 2011 but my personal observations of them failing in use has eliminated them from consideration for me. If something significant has changed, I would certainly reconsider. Quoted:
STI switched owners in 2018. The new owners poured a shitload of money and machinery into developing a duty-ready pistol. They also pared the line of pistols down to a Comp line and Duty line. Further, they had the magazines re-designed and switched the mag manufacture to a major magazine company. The new mags are nothing like the old mags that needed to be "tuned." They had Dawson of Dawson Precision come on as a consultant to train all of the gunsmiths who assemble the guns and improve processes. I am purchasing one, at the special guy price, and will carry it on duty after I get about 2k rounds and a lot of draws and manipulation practice with it. It will replace my Nighthawk Costa. The real problem with STI's for duty is duty holster availability. |
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Posted: 9/9/2019 4:34:35 PM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The more important thing in my mind is how you decide if that 1% of gun performance is worth other trade offs. I think that for almost everything a handgun is used for outside and of actual Bullseye type shooting a duty pistol is more than enough. I love 1911’s and 2011’s and once it exhibited reliability I would have no problem carrying one but for most hard use stuff something like a glock is hard to beat. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No matter how you slice it, the top 1% of shooters can run a 1911 better than they can run a Glock. For the other 99%, the value added is questionable...but for that 1%... That and capacity and weight, and the G19 became a no brainer. I get the math...and you are correct...but there is still that 1% of guys who are racecar divers and can drive a car to its full potential. I get the reloads...round counts...weight...it makes sense...but X counts don't lie either. It will always be mission specific...I wouldn't run around Helmand with a 1911...but I would want the guy coming through the aircraft door to rescue me from terrorists to be sporting a 1911 of some variety. You just have to issue 5 of them...a duty...2x training, 2x down for maintenance. I love 1911’s and 2011’s and once it exhibited reliability I would have no problem carrying one but for most hard use stuff something like a glock is hard to beat. When the ride to work is thousands of dollars per hour, the mission tends to matter more than the cost of the handguns... |
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