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Posted: 8/27/2019 8:41:14 PM EDT
[#1]
 
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Posted: 8/27/2019 9:06:52 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why did they go with a 1911? Because they're long on taxpayer money and short on sense. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 10:37:54 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Only STI makes 2011s Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The difference in practical accuracy comes from the trigger. I don't think a barrel in a 2011 locks up any tighter than in a glock. I've been dropping my mags in dust and mud for several years now. Haven't disassembled them yet to clean them. Again I realize I am a sample size of one. There are too many builders of 2011s to fairly compare what we might all see at a competition to a batch of factory guns from STI. Not to mention that after a builder gets done with the 2011, many of the competitors fuck with. Changing out springs, using weaker ammo, cutting down magazine followers and magazine springs to get a 20 round mag to hold 23... It muddies the water..... I have both, and have used both for competition. The only failure that I have ever experienced with either gun was ammunition that didn't pass a case gauge test. I have seen 'salt shaker' mags, but I also have seen salt shaker AR-15 magazines from surefire. That doesn't mean the AR-15 isn't reliable, it means that some magazines don't work well. The magazine failures I have seen are always modified to hold more rounds within the 140mm limit. My glock mags with TTI followers that hold 22 have always worked perfectly as well. Score one for glock. I would vouch for the quality of the magazines. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 10:38:56 PM EDT
[#4]
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Posted: 8/27/2019 10:41:40 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why did they go with a 1911? Because they're long on taxpayer money and short on sense. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 10:44:42 PM EDT
[#6]
Should have gone with that new Wilson EDC X9 instead, haha. But the STI is still a very nice gun
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Posted: 8/27/2019 10:46:59 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Appears they were using 1911s but transitioned to 2011s |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 10:49:30 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It's not a 1911. The only real failing (if you can call it that) of a 1911 is it's low capacity. The 2011 fixes that, and then some. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 11:02:23 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yes. The guns aren't that expensive when you consider the price of training, and lives. It doesn't make sense to cheap out on a gun when you'll shoot many times its value in ammo through it on a regular basis, unless it's all you can afford. It doesn't have to be Gucci, but if you are carrying it everyday it should be something you like and are comfortable shooting. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 11:14:40 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think we have different definitions of what constitutes a failing. 1911s were fantastic in their own time, but so was the model t. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
It's not a 1911. The only real failing (if you can call it that) of a 1911 is it's low capacity. The 2011 fixes that, and then some. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 11:14:46 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I want to know how they kept the magazines from turning into salt shakers during reliability testing. I'm a 2011 fan, I own one and shot many. Mag reliability has always been the weakest area. You gotta keep them suckers clean. Should have bought Glocks. |
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Posted: 8/27/2019 11:22:26 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Only STI makes 2011s  Um Nope ??Hint: EDC 9 |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 12:02:30 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I love Glocks, truly. But comparing them to a truly good 1911(or 2011) is like comparing a butcher knife to a scalpel. They both cut, but only one is really suitable for surgery. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 12:09:01 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never said it had to be a Glock. But 1911s have been outdated since the advent of the high power. I could accept that 1911s may have some advantage as race guns (I honestly don't know, especially since you see so many Glocks in that arena now), but as duty guns they're hopelessly outdated. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I love Glocks, truly. But comparing them to a truly good 1911(or 2011) is like comparing a butcher knife to a scalpel. They both cut, but only one is really suitable for surgery. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 12:11:54 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: MBX mags are your friends. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 12:14:37 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The gun you shoot and practice with is better than the gun you don’t. The 2011 is a pleasure to shoot unlike the Glock. So perhaps they’ll want to take it to the range. It's their job. They are fucking paid to practice. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 1:49:32 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay, I'll bite. In what way? Keep in mind I'm concerned with a modern variant, such as the one being discussed in this thread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I love Glocks, truly. But comparing them to a truly good 1911(or 2011) is like comparing a butcher knife to a scalpel. They both cut, but only one is really suitable for surgery. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 2:03:20 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $130 each, hell yeah ! |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 2:05:28 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow $130 pistol mags. Is that an industry first? |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 6:58:54 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Give it a few years, and they'll all switch back. They will be able to make well over the purchase price US Marshall owner gun. Only X number issued. Price $10,000 |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 7:03:27 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Comparatively, they do suck. Long range slow fire where you have ample time to carefully pull all the way through a long trigger is not really the best metric. Shooting several shots in rapid succession, or one shot very quickly, is when a good trigger helps make a difference. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 8:07:24 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have the opposite opinion. One of the reason I like Glocks is the trigger for closer, rapid shots. It's the same shot to shot (unlike DA/SA), it's not as long as DAO. If you ride the reset, I find it to be a very fast shooting gun (while hitting paper). |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 8:12:27 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I never said it had to be a Glock. But 1911s have been outdated since the advent of the high power. I could accept that 1911s may have some advantage as race guns (I honestly don’t know, especially since you see so many Glocks in that are a now), but as duty guns they’re hopelessly outdated. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 8:14:18 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have the opposite opinion. One of the reason I like Glocks is the trigger for closer, rapid shots. It's the same shot to shot (unlike DA/SA), it's not as long as DAO. If you ride the reset, I find it to be a very fast shooting gun (while hitting paper). Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Comparatively, they do suck. Long range slow fire where you have ample time to carefully pull all the way through a long trigger is not really the best metric. Shooting several shots in rapid succession, or one shot very quickly, is when a good trigger helps make a difference. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 8:38:45 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Okay, I'll bite. In what way? Keep in mind I'm concerned with a modern variant, such as the one being discussed in this thread. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 8:59:47 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only thing "modern" about the 2011 is the name. It's the same internally as any other 1911. All they did was widen the grip to accommodate the double stack mag and add on some rails and stuff to the outside. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 9:12:02 AM EDT
[#27]
You can get whatever you want when you spend other peoples money
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Posted: 8/28/2019 9:14:53 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The only thing "modern" about the 2011 is the name. It's the same internally as any other 1911. All they did was widen the grip to accommodate the double stack mag and add on some rails and stuff to the outside. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 9:19:40 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The only thing "modern" about the 2011 is the name. It's the same internally as any other 1911. All they did was widen the grip to accommodate the double stack mag and add on some rails and stuff to the outside. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Okay, I'll bite. In what way? Keep in mind I'm concerned with a modern variant, such as the one being discussed in this thread. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 9:47:50 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But what makes it outdated? I refer to "modern variants" having a rail and adjustable sights, and high capacity in the case of the 2011. To make a long story very short, suffice it to say there are good reasons why the Hi Power exists, and why virtually all semi autos have copied its design. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 9:52:24 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Umm I went and checked my 6360RDS for my Glock 17 and I couldn't stick my finger inside. Doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of level 3 ALS WML capable Glock holsters in service currently have the problem in question. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 10:06:00 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
$130 each, hell yeah ! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: MBX mags are your friends. 
 Attached File |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 10:10:22 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I have the opposite opinion. One of the reason I like Glocks is the trigger for closer, rapid shots. It's the same shot to shot (unlike DA/SA), it's not as long as DAO. If you ride the reset, I find it to be a very fast shooting gun (while hitting paper). |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 10:17:18 AM EDT
[#34]
Having more than a smidge of knowledge about this thing all that I can and will say is this -
"It's some fucked up shit." When clown world comes to your world, it's not safe anywhere. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 10:40:26 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Shooting fast and riding the reset don't belong in the same sentence. You are riding the trigger on the point where it resets, which has a firmer feel. Very short pull, very fast to shoot. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 10:41:21 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I picked up five MBX mags and then had them nitrided. I could have bought two new Glocks for the price of five mags!
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/340387/AFF037FD-C05D-4DC4-809E-FD43ED172A17_jpeg-1070133.JPG I love everything about my MBX mags except for what I paid for them. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 10:44:50 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I picked up five MBX mags and then had them nitrided. I could have bought two new Glocks for the price of five mags!
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/340387/AFF037FD-C05D-4DC4-809E-FD43ED172A17_jpeg-1070133.JPG @GreenGoose |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 10:51:28 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Where did you send them to be nitrided? @GreenGoose Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I picked up five MBX mags and then had them nitrided. I could have bought two new Glocks for the price of five mags!
https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/340387/AFF037FD-C05D-4DC4-809E-FD43ED172A17_jpeg-1070133.JPG @GreenGoose |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 10:56:05 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Straight facts. It’s why GLOCK dominates any shooting sport that involves shooting fast. 
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Posted: 8/28/2019 10:57:59 AM EDT
[#40]
Glock doesn't even dominate production division of USPSA.....
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Posted: 8/28/2019 11:02:08 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hundreds of gunmiths buy unfinished slides and frames from STI and build guns out of them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: The difference in practical accuracy comes from the trigger. I don't think a barrel in a 2011 locks up any tighter than in a glock. I've been dropping my mags in dust and mud for several years now. Haven't disassembled them yet to clean them. Again I realize I am a sample size of one. There are too many builders of 2011s to fairly compare what we might all see at a competition to a batch of factory guns from STI. Not to mention that after a builder gets done with the 2011, many of the competitors fuck with. Changing out springs, using weaker ammo, cutting down magazine followers and magazine springs to get a 20 round mag to hold 23... It muddies the water..... I have both, and have used both for competition. The only failure that I have ever experienced with either gun was ammunition that didn't pass a case gauge test. I have seen 'salt shaker' mags, but I also have seen salt shaker AR-15 magazines from surefire. That doesn't mean the AR-15 isn't reliable, it means that some magazines don't work well. The magazine failures I have seen are always modified to hold more rounds within the 140mm limit. My glock mags with TTI followers that hold 22 have always worked perfectly as well. Score one for glock. I would vouch for the quality of the magazines. Quoted:
Quoted: Only STI makes 2011s Um Nope ??Hint: EDC 9 |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 11:17:08 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Straight facts. It’s why GLOCK dominates any shooting sport that involves shooting fast. From the 2018 USPSA Nationals Equipment Survey: https://uspsa.org/magazine/display//2019-01 Starting on page 58. Firearm Manufacturer (top 5) by Division: Open: STI, SVI, Arai, Limcat, Atlas, Phoenix Trinity Carry Optics: Sig Saur, CZ-USA, Glock (16%), Walther, S&W, Springfield Armory Production: CZ-USA, Tanfoglio/EAA, Glock (11%), Sig Sauer, Walther, Other Limited/L10: STI, SVI, Phoenix Trinity, CZ-USA, Glock (6%), Tanfoglio/EAA I left out PCC, Single Stack, and Revolver since a Glock does not make firearms that meet those division rules. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 11:21:18 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Um Nope ??Hint: EDC x9 1911 Frame  Attached File2011 Frame  Attached File |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 11:31:57 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Straight facts. It’s why GLOCK dominates any shooting sport that involves shooting fast. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I have the opposite opinion. One of the reason I like Glocks is the trigger for closer, rapid shots. It's the same shot to shot (unlike DA/SA), it's not as long as DAO. If you ride the reset, I find it to be a very fast shooting gun (while hitting paper). |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 11:44:36 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Not sure if you are serious. 
I'm laughing my ass off at the "Glocks shoot fast because you can ride the reset" just like everyone else is. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 11:49:10 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Some of yall are thicker than a HK Mark 23.
I'm laughing my ass off at the "Glocks shoot fast because you can ride the reset" just like everyone else is. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Not sure if you are serious.
I'm laughing my ass off at the "Glocks shoot fast because you can ride the reset" just like everyone else is. .
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Posted: 8/28/2019 11:51:39 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Some of yall are thicker than a HK Mark 23.
I'm laughing my ass off at the "Glocks shoot fast because you can ride the reset" just like everyone else is.
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Posted: 8/28/2019 11:52:03 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm an engineer, I'm deficient in catching things like that .
ETA: I get sarcasm being hard to pick up on in GD. So much stupid stuff gets posted here sometimes it's almost impossible to tell what is cheeky fun and what is serious derp. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 12:07:00 PM EDT
[#49]
I don't get why people care. USMS absolutely NEEDS their firearms. They handle a ton of violent fugitive work under hugely sub optimal circumstances (limited manpower, crazy hours, short notice, no time to plan).
SOG is a small unit within that that handles extremely high risk events. The STI is a great pistol...it is a race car to be sure and requires race car level support...but it is a valid tool. If I had the armorer support and budget, I would gladly carry one. It's not a general issue weapon, but it would be great in certain mission sets. If you care capable of driving a race car and your job involves racing...you should have a race car. Not a huge deal. |
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Posted: 8/28/2019 12:22:04 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Straight facts. It’s why GLOCK dominates any shooting sport that involves shooting fast. 80% of the shooters have a 2011 or sparkly CZ. Any glocks you see are usually noobs who ditch them as soon as they can afford to upgrade. if you look at the few pro shooters who run Glocks the frame is usually the only thing factory on the gun, and that usually has some type of modification. edit* I was late in on that one
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