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Posted: 11/27/2020 1:23:05 AM EST

[#1]

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I can't deal with this...

Posted: 11/27/2020 1:31:30 AM EST

[#2]

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Posted: 11/27/2020 1:36:17 AM EST

[#3]

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Quoted:

Why have a grease in an area not designed for grease?

Here’s a good read of grease vs oil.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/923/grease-oil

My opinion, take it for what it’s worth, which is some asshole on the internet. That doesn’t make money off YouTube or have any reason to be e-famous.

1. Again, a firearm isn’t a closed system. Or semi closed system. You’re going to get a ton of contaminants in it. That’s just a function of a firearm in use. So cleaning regularly is recommended maintenance.

2. Grease, like oil, won’t stay where you want it to in an open system like a firearm. Sure, it’s more tacky. But it’s going to sling just like oil. Why/how? Well, most of the time because it’s about 60-70% oil anyways. Just a heavy oil.

3. Grease can cause fiction, instead of reducing it in the wrong application.

4. Grease comes with it’s own set of issues. Such as oil bleed off. The oil that grease is formulated with, will separate out from the grease and drop off with time. Given, higher performance greases are different. As well as different types of greases such as polyurea, PTFE, silicone and other exotics have different characteristics. But for the sake of this conversation, we’re talking about conventional greases. Specifically, a lithium based product that he is using and most use.

The oil will leave the thickener. Which then inhibits the performance of the grease. Which, leads to lubrication failure.

5. Where is grease used primarily?
- extreme pressure situations. King pins, U joints, bucket pins.

These situations are high shock load, high pressure areas that are semi sealed in normal conditions. Also once through applications. This is to prevent wear on those points. But they have to be regularly maintained.

One could argue trailer bearings, or bearing applications are high speed. But that’s why in most heavy duty / high speed applications you have oil systems. Think a light duty landscaping trailer vs a heavy duty semi trailer. Semi trailers use oil bath bearings. Light duty use grease.

Which has more failures per mile traveled? Grease.

6. Also, think about these applications. They’re all one way lubricants. You purge the old out when you put the new in. Which means they’re semi sealed. The grease creates a seal on the exit end. The zerk fitting seals the grease entry point. Guns don’t have this luxury. There is no “seal” on an AR. So there is nothing to seal. Thus nothing to for the grease to seal.

So back to why not use it in an AR?

Why use it to begin with? If you’re using it primarily for its oil... why not use an oil? Just a higher risk of contamination build up once the oil leaves the grease.

Now if you’re going to build a gun and put in an armory for 100 years like the fucking Russians? Yeah. Pack that mother fucker with grease.

Actual use? Most applications... oil. Clean your gun. Save some time and mess.

Way lubricants are mostly used in metal working applications. You can get a 5 gallon bucket for like 50 buck or less.

Edit:

There are definitely uses of grease in certain firearms. The M1 garand. The 1911. As they were designed with it in mind. You can certainly use oil on them too. Just a note. This is not a blanket statement of “grease bad. Oil good.” Use your knoggin. Think a bit about the mechanical action at hand. Both can work. Grease can certainly work in an AR. But, I propose the question of why?

Even more, why bother with his mixture? For what he spent there he could just buy a semi fluid grease.

Edit 2:

To the topic of lithium and corrosion resistance. It’s why most marine greases are calcium based.

Link to a good article again, as I’m too tired to write it out.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29658/multi-purpose-grease

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Quoted:
Also, I got about 45 seconds into the video closed it. Guy sounded smart until he mentioned viscosity of the product he made and how much he was spending on gun oils.

For the “thousands of dollars” he supposedly spent on gun oils, he could of bought a drum of full synthetic motor oil. And cleaned a gun after every round for years to come. Just because you’re an idiot doesn’t mean you need to announce it online.

The dude knows more about the technical design and function of the AR than pretty much anyone.

However his lubrication ideas are ridiculous.

Perhaps he does. But lacking knowledge in the fundamentals of lubrication means you don’t understand technical design.

See my link earlier.

The AR platform, along with majority of firearms, are a “way action” - or a sliding action. Way lubricants are what you would use to combat this in an industrial application.

Firearms, where the moving parts are, do not get extremely hot in the scheme of things. Otherwise we wouldn’t be able to hold the firearm.

The secondary to that, is shock. Firearms move fast and have a high shock load. Every time the round fires, recoil, etc.

Third is contamination.

Loop in the fact the firearm is not a closed loop system. Meaning, the oil isn’t contained and reused. It’s a single use product. Not like say a engine where the oil is filtered and cooled.

By doing what he is doing, first off:

He has no idea what the hell he’s making or why he’s even doing it. He might have an idea on the macro level. But he’s defeating a lot of the purpose of a lubricant. A lubricant is supposed to reduce friction.

So he’s combining a 220 base oil lithium grease, with either a 5w or 0w oil. Which is going to be 100 base oil or 70 base oil respectively.

To make what? A thicker product with lithium in it? And a tackifier?

Just use a wayoil 32 and save some money.

Secondly, you’re filling space up with the grease to make a barrier lubricant, in a sliding situation. This is actually going to increase friction over a properly spec’d lubricant. You don’t need a heavy lubricant like a grease in most firearms because the tolerances don’t call for it.

Which we could then have the conversation of tolerances, grease and contamination. But I think you see the point.

Third. As the military learned, I don’t know, a 100 fucking years ago, lithium based greases are bad as gun greases. Which is why the military used calcium based greases for their gun greases dating back before WW2.

Lithium greases hold 1 to 1 water. So 1 oz of grease will hold 1 oz of water. This is bad for corrosion resistance. As you’re relying on the corrosion inhibitors to protect metals instead of removing the problem, which is water. Calcium based greases hold .25 to 1. So 1 oz of grease will hold .25 oz of water. This combats the issue of just not letting water in.

I can go on but it’s midnight. I think my point has been made that his technical knowledge on lubricants is ignorant at best. And with that his technical knowledge on firearms, leaves me skeptical.

The lithium grease corrosion discussion is new to me. I'm pretty sure the grease I've been using is probably lithium based.

I think the tolerances part of the conversation is something one can eyeball to an extent. A Dan Wesson, Nighthawk, or a tighter space like where a bolt sits in a BCG is obviously not where you'd want a grease. But much looser areas? Why not?

"Way oil" sounds interesting, but they don't seem to sell it anywhere consumer facing.

Why have a grease in an area not designed for grease?

Here’s a good read of grease vs oil.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/923/grease-oil

My opinion, take it for what it’s worth, which is some asshole on the internet. That doesn’t make money off YouTube or have any reason to be e-famous.

1. Again, a firearm isn’t a closed system. Or semi closed system. You’re going to get a ton of contaminants in it. That’s just a function of a firearm in use. So cleaning regularly is recommended maintenance.

2. Grease, like oil, won’t stay where you want it to in an open system like a firearm. Sure, it’s more tacky. But it’s going to sling just like oil. Why/how? Well, most of the time because it’s about 60-70% oil anyways. Just a heavy oil.

3. Grease can cause fiction, instead of reducing it in the wrong application.

4. Grease comes with it’s own set of issues. Such as oil bleed off. The oil that grease is formulated with, will separate out from the grease and drop off with time. Given, higher performance greases are different. As well as different types of greases such as polyurea, PTFE, silicone and other exotics have different characteristics. But for the sake of this conversation, we’re talking about conventional greases. Specifically, a lithium based product that he is using and most use.

The oil will leave the thickener. Which then inhibits the performance of the grease. Which, leads to lubrication failure.

5. Where is grease used primarily?
- extreme pressure situations. King pins, U joints, bucket pins.

These situations are high shock load, high pressure areas that are semi sealed in normal conditions. Also once through applications. This is to prevent wear on those points. But they have to be regularly maintained.

One could argue trailer bearings, or bearing applications are high speed. But that’s why in most heavy duty / high speed applications you have oil systems. Think a light duty landscaping trailer vs a heavy duty semi trailer. Semi trailers use oil bath bearings. Light duty use grease.

Which has more failures per mile traveled? Grease.

6. Also, think about these applications. They’re all one way lubricants. You purge the old out when you put the new in. Which means they’re semi sealed. The grease creates a seal on the exit end. The zerk fitting seals the grease entry point. Guns don’t have this luxury. There is no “seal” on an AR. So there is nothing to seal. Thus nothing to for the grease to seal.

So back to why not use it in an AR?

Why use it to begin with? If you’re using it primarily for its oil... why not use an oil? Just a higher risk of contamination build up once the oil leaves the grease.

Now if you’re going to build a gun and put in an armory for 100 years like the fucking Russians? Yeah. Pack that mother fucker with grease.

Actual use? Most applications... oil. Clean your gun. Save some time and mess.

Way lubricants are mostly used in metal working applications. You can get a 5 gallon bucket for like 50 buck or less.

Edit:

There are definitely uses of grease in certain firearms. The M1 garand. The 1911. As they were designed with it in mind. You can certainly use oil on them too. Just a note. This is not a blanket statement of “grease bad. Oil good.” Use your knoggin. Think a bit about the mechanical action at hand. Both can work. Grease can certainly work in an AR. But, I propose the question of why?

Even more, why bother with his mixture? For what he spent there he could just buy a semi fluid grease.

Edit 2:

To the topic of lithium and corrosion resistance. It’s why most marine greases are calcium based.

Link to a good article again, as I’m too tired to write it out.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29658/multi-purpose-grease

Point #2 is where I have a hard time following you.

You have detailed knowledge of hundreds or thousands of different oils, so I'm sure there are varieties that come to mind for you with better properties than the oils I'm thinking of, but generally speaking, the oils I'm aware of as a consumer don't stay where I want them to nearly as well as greases do. Oils run/drain away while greases don't.

If I'm going to pull a gun out of the safe, take it to the range, clean it, and put it away, then sure... some fresh oil on the way in and out of the safe makes sense. But what about a gun that's going to sit for weeks, months, or even years in a just in case role?

I shouldn't have to say this, but after watching this video, I think I should also clarify... I don't "pack" anything with grease like he does the cam pin area, and I apply it in a fairly thin coat, not all gloppy and sloppy.

Posted: 11/27/2020 1:40:44 AM EST

[#4]

Posted: 11/27/2020 1:50:34 AM EST

[#5]

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Quoted:

I don't have a PhD in lubrication technology but I can tell you that when I was in the army the conventional infantry "wisdom" of too much oil attracts dirt was still common and I saw and experienced TONS of failures due to under lubricating stuff to avoid "attracting dirt."

Then we got a company armorer who was a "renegade"(meaning he read the internet and tested stuff

) and we started doing "dirt attracting stuff" and stoppages magically dropped to near zero.

We even used full size spray bottles full of CLP or motor oil we would just hose all over our 240s/SAWs when shooting high volume. Never had any issues, even when blasting off wayyyyy too many rounds for the number of spare barrels we brought because the LT didn't want to turn in extra ammo and fuck the equipment, shoot 20,000 rounds in an hour so we can go home and do it fast.

Strangely that same LT was a devoted adherent of oil being dirt attracting and I vividly remember being at an EIB event and him lecturing a private in the barracks that the M4 should be cleaned with Hoppes and kept very dry to avoid stoppages. The ONLY place on the weapon that needs lubricant is the buffer tube and buffer spring.

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I just use CLP, the best and most readily available gun lube, and I use it for other lube uses around the house. When it dries it attracts zero dirt.

The problem with wet lubes is that they attracts debris and dirt. If you use too much on slides, it will fling oil back at the shooter's face and clothing. The trick for gun lubes is that a little goes a long ways.

I don't have a PhD in lubrication technology but I can tell you that when I was in the army the conventional infantry "wisdom" of too much oil attracts dirt was still common and I saw and experienced TONS of failures due to under lubricating stuff to avoid "attracting dirt."

Then we got a company armorer who was a "renegade"(meaning he read the internet and tested stuff

) and we started doing "dirt attracting stuff" and stoppages magically dropped to near zero.

We even used full size spray bottles full of CLP or motor oil we would just hose all over our 240s/SAWs when shooting high volume. Never had any issues, even when blasting off wayyyyy too many rounds for the number of spare barrels we brought because the LT didn't want to turn in extra ammo and fuck the equipment, shoot 20,000 rounds in an hour so we can go home and do it fast.

Strangely that same LT was a devoted adherent of oil being dirt attracting and I vividly remember being at an EIB event and him lecturing a private in the barracks that the M4 should be cleaned with Hoppes and kept very dry to avoid stoppages. The ONLY place on the weapon that needs lubricant is the buffer tube and buffer spring.

My Army experience/opinion is similar to yours.

We were constantly told to be sparing in our application of lubricant, and it was normal to see guys only apply a couple of drops or something trivial. We would then do a bunch of white glove dog and pony show BS when turning in our rifles, and they were expected to be fairly dry.

I had a limited confidence in the M4 I carried in Iraq, and I left the Army with a fairly low opinion of M16/M4 rifles. It was only outside the Army that I discovered how much better they function with adequate lubrication. Amazing.

Posted: 11/27/2020 1:58:18 AM EST

[#6]

Posted: 11/27/2020 2:11:40 AM EST

[#7]

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I had a limited confidence in the M4 I carried in Iraq, and I left the Army with a fairly low opinion of M16/M4 rifles. It was only outside the Army that I discovered how much better they function with adequate lubrication. Amazing.

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A good friend of mine absolutely hates AR/M4 rifles to this day because the one he had in Iraq had constant stoppages. He owns an AK and a Tavor and only uses an AR-15 at work(cop) because it's required to carry the issued rifle.

He was a logistics officer in the army and not really a big time gun guy. He's competent with them but not really interested in the details. I'll bet a paycheck that his views are 100% the fault of the US Army's failure to ensure people actually understand their weapons and allowing NCO's to propagate idiotic BS like no lube, the old ".50 cal will tear your arm off with a near miss" BS, etc.

Dumbest one I ever heard was an E-6(infantry) teaching a class on zeroing the PEQ-15. He was explaining where to put the visible zeroing laser, which is naturally offset from the IR aiming laser... since they are two different lasers, and goes "I'm sure you're all wondering why we're placing this visible zeroing laser higher than our point of expected impact. This has to with the curvature of the earth as the light bends from gravity over long distances..." Dude continued to give a "physics" lesson for 10 more minutes of off script made up bull shit nowhere to be found in any TM anywhere, while a bunch of cherry privates eagerly absorbed it all to repeat it later when they have sergeant stripes.

The army could really benefit from outsourcing most technical training to contracted subject matter experts instead of trying to shoe horn knuckle draggers of varying and often questionable intellect into the role of an instructor.

Posted: 11/27/2020 2:20:37 AM EST

[#8]

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Guy seems like he knows his stuff about ar mechanics.

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Guy seems like he knows his stuff about ar mechanics.

This is debatable.

He seems to understand blueprints, specifications and tolerances, and therefor creates his own gauges based on the min/max tolerances of the specs. Perhaps he even worked as qc acceptance of parts at a manufacturer at some point. Does this make him an expert in the use and operation of the weapons under field conditions? Far, far from it.

thing I know is if I lubed my rifles like that they would be one shot guns very quickly.

And you would be wrong.

Posted: 11/27/2020 2:24:45 AM EST

[#9]

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I see a lot of people have never been in a desert or live in a desert and think this is a great idea.

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Complete bunk.

My nearly 4 years of weapons maintenance in the middle east proved the truth that even when e posed to sand and dust, wet is better than dry under any circumstance.

Oil does not "attract" dirt. This is a myth.

Posted: 11/27/2020 2:31:36 AM EST

[#10]

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The dude knows more about the technical design and function of the AR than pretty much anyone.

However his lubrication ideas are ridiculous.

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Yes and no.

What he really did do is show that he's an expert in working on guns that do not see field conditions or any real use outside of the occasional training class.

Posted: 11/27/2020 2:37:08 AM EST

[#11]

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I have been using "Vegan" plant based Lube for the past 9 years. Never had a issue, never had it gum up, and on some of my more collector items that sit for years, they are as lubed and rust free as the day I cleaned them and put then away. Granted I am not in a combat or desert situation. But water, hunting, and sitting for years, works very well....

https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61duNOJ%2BECL._AC_SX425_.jpg

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That stuff is legit, I won’t be repurchasing as I’ve found Hoppe’s and 10w-30 to cover my needs. But it’s a much improved CLP no doubt.

It did melt my Glock diagram gun mat though, no idea how they designed something that can melt a mat like that and have it be plant based / eco friendly etc etc

Posted: 11/27/2020 2:41:47 AM EST

[#12]

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Quoted:

Perhaps he does. But lacking knowledge in the fundamentals of lubrication means you don’t understand technical design.

See my link earlier.

The AR platform, along with majority of firearms, are a “way action” - or a sliding action. Way lubricants are what you would use to combat this in an industrial application.

Firearms, where the moving parts are, do not get extremely hot in the scheme of things. Otherwise we wouldn’t be able to hold the firearm.

The secondary to that, is shock. Firearms move fast and have a high shock load. Every time the round fires, recoil, etc.

Third is contamination.

Loop in the fact the firearm is not a closed loop system. Meaning, the oil isn’t contained and reused. It’s a single use product. Not like say a engine where the oil is filtered and cooled.

By doing what he is doing, first off:

He has no idea what the hell he’s making or why he’s even doing it. He might have an idea on the macro level. But he’s defeating a lot of the purpose of a lubricant. A lubricant is supposed to reduce friction.

So he’s combining a 220 base oil lithium grease, with either a 5w or 0w oil. Which is going to be 100 base oil or 70 base oil respectively.

To make what? A thicker product with lithium in it? And a tackifier?

Just use a wayoil 32 and save some money.

Secondly, you’re filling space up with the grease to make a barrier lubricant, in a sliding situation. This is actually going to increase friction over a properly spec’d lubricant. You don’t need a heavy lubricant like a grease in most firearms because the tolerances don’t call for it.

Which we could then have the conversation of tolerances, grease and contamination. But I think you see the point.

Third. As the military learned, I don’t know, a 100 fucking years ago, lithium based greases are bad as gun greases. Which is why the military used calcium based greases for their gun greases dating back before WW2.

Lithium greases hold 1 to 1 water. So 1 oz of grease will hold 1 oz of water. This is bad for corrosion resistance. As you’re relying on the corrosion inhibitors to protect metals instead of removing the problem, which is water. Calcium based greases hold .25 to 1. So 1 oz of grease will hold .25 oz of water. This combats the issue of just not letting water in.

I can go on but it’s midnight. I think my point has been made that his technical knowledge on lubricants is ignorant at best. And with that his technical knowledge on firearms, leaves me skeptical.

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Also, I got about 45 seconds into the video closed it. Guy sounded smart until he mentioned viscosity of the product he made and how much he was spending on gun oils.

For the “thousands of dollars” he supposedly spent on gun oils, he could of bought a drum of full synthetic motor oil. And cleaned a gun after every round for years to come. Just because you’re an idiot doesn’t mean you need to announce it online.

The dude knows more about the technical design and function of the AR than pretty much anyone.

However his lubrication ideas are ridiculous.

Perhaps he does. But lacking knowledge in the fundamentals of lubrication means you don’t understand technical design.

See my link earlier.

The AR platform, along with majority of firearms, are a “way action” - or a sliding action. Way lubricants are what you would use to combat this in an industrial application.

Firearms, where the moving parts are, do not get extremely hot in the scheme of things. Otherwise we wouldn’t be able to hold the firearm.

The secondary to that, is shock. Firearms move fast and have a high shock load. Every time the round fires, recoil, etc.

Third is contamination.

Loop in the fact the firearm is not a closed loop system. Meaning, the oil isn’t contained and reused. It’s a single use product. Not like say a engine where the oil is filtered and cooled.

By doing what he is doing, first off:

He has no idea what the hell he’s making or why he’s even doing it. He might have an idea on the macro level. But he’s defeating a lot of the purpose of a lubricant. A lubricant is supposed to reduce friction.

So he’s combining a 220 base oil lithium grease, with either a 5w or 0w oil. Which is going to be 100 base oil or 70 base oil respectively.

To make what? A thicker product with lithium in it? And a tackifier?

Just use a wayoil 32 and save some money.

Secondly, you’re filling space up with the grease to make a barrier lubricant, in a sliding situation. This is actually going to increase friction over a properly spec’d lubricant. You don’t need a heavy lubricant like a grease in most firearms because the tolerances don’t call for it.

Which we could then have the conversation of tolerances, grease and contamination. But I think you see the point.

Third. As the military learned, I don’t know, a 100 fucking years ago, lithium based greases are bad as gun greases. Which is why the military used calcium based greases for their gun greases dating back before WW2.

Lithium greases hold 1 to 1 water. So 1 oz of grease will hold 1 oz of water. This is bad for corrosion resistance. As you’re relying on the corrosion inhibitors to protect metals instead of removing the problem, which is water. Calcium based greases hold .25 to 1. So 1 oz of grease will hold .25 oz of water. This combats the issue of just not letting water in.

I can go on but it’s midnight. I think my point has been made that his technical knowledge on lubricants is ignorant at best. And with that his technical knowledge on firearms, leaves me skeptical.

I don’t know jack shit about any of this but I’m fairly certain this guy knows all the things about this

Don’t you make or test motor oil or something like that, for a living?

Posted: 11/27/2020 2:46:33 AM EST

[#13]

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Quoted:

I don't have a PhD in lubrication technology but I can tell you that when I was in the army the conventional infantry "wisdom" of too much oil attracts dirt was still common and I saw and experienced TONS of failures due to under lubricating stuff to avoid "attracting dirt."

Then we got a company armorer who was a "renegade"(meaning he read the internet and tested stuff

) and we started doing "dirt attracting stuff" and stoppages magically dropped to near zero.

We even used full size spray bottles full of CLP or motor oil we would just hose all over our 240s/SAWs when shooting high volume. Never had any issues, even when blasting off wayyyyy too many rounds for the number of spare barrels we brought because the LT didn't want to turn in extra ammo and fuck the equipment, shoot 20,000 rounds in an hour so we can go home and do it fast.

Strangely that same LT was a devoted adherent of oil being dirt attracting and I vividly remember being at an EIB event and him lecturing a private in the barracks that the M4 should be cleaned with Hoppes and kept very dry to avoid stoppages. The ONLY place on the weapon that needs lubricant is the buffer tube and buffer spring.

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Quoted:

Quoted:
I just use CLP, the best and most readily available gun lube, and I use it for other lube uses around the house. When it dries it attracts zero dirt.

The problem with wet lubes is that they attracts debris and dirt. If you use too much on slides, it will fling oil back at the shooter's face and clothing. The trick for gun lubes is that a little goes a long ways.

I don't have a PhD in lubrication technology but I can tell you that when I was in the army the conventional infantry "wisdom" of too much oil attracts dirt was still common and I saw and experienced TONS of failures due to under lubricating stuff to avoid "attracting dirt."

Then we got a company armorer who was a "renegade"(meaning he read the internet and tested stuff

) and we started doing "dirt attracting stuff" and stoppages magically dropped to near zero.

We even used full size spray bottles full of CLP or motor oil we would just hose all over our 240s/SAWs when shooting high volume. Never had any issues, even when blasting off wayyyyy too many rounds for the number of spare barrels we brought because the LT didn't want to turn in extra ammo and fuck the equipment, shoot 20,000 rounds in an hour so we can go home and do it fast.

Strangely that same LT was a devoted adherent of oil being dirt attracting and I vividly remember being at an EIB event and him lecturing a private in the barracks that the M4 should be cleaned with Hoppes and kept very dry to avoid stoppages. The ONLY place on the weapon that needs lubricant is the buffer tube and buffer spring.

I am just a shade tree mechanic and never been in the US military, but you have to put enough lube, but not dripping wet.

I spoke with a Glock rep, about at G17 that shot 750,000 rds, he recommends ONE drop of CLP on the slide rails, and on the barrel hood, and reassemble. The G17 is a rental gun at the local indoor shooting range.

Posted: 11/27/2020 2:48:12 AM EST

[#14]

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https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/346870/lube_jpg-1703886.JPG

https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/346870/oil_2_jpg-1703892.JPG

I can't deal with this...

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Posted: 11/27/2020 2:58:49 AM EST

[#15]

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https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/454086/91xowqur0bt21_png-1703909.JPG https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/454086/50cd1e8d152d9f493771b65a936909ad_jpg-1703910.JPG

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Posted: 11/27/2020 3:05:00 AM EST

[#16]

Dude must really love to clean his guns after each and every range trip. Looks like a fucking nightmare.

Posted: 11/27/2020 3:26:52 AM EST

[#17]

Quote History

Quoted:

I don't have a PhD in lubrication technology but I can tell you that when I was in the army the conventional infantry "wisdom" of too much oil attracts dirt was still common and I saw and experienced TONS of failures due to under lubricating stuff to avoid "attracting dirt."

Then we got a company armorer who was a "renegade"(meaning he read the internet and tested stuff

) and we started doing "dirt attracting stuff" and stoppages magically dropped to near zero.

We even used full size spray bottles full of CLP or motor oil we would just hose all over our 240s/SAWs when shooting high volume. Never had any issues, even when blasting off wayyyyy too many rounds for the number of spare barrels we brought because the LT didn't want to turn in extra ammo and fuck the equipment, shoot 20,000 rounds in an hour so we can go home and do it fast.

Strangely that same LT was a devoted adherent of oil being dirt attracting and I vividly remember being at an EIB event and him lecturing a private in the barracks that the M4 should be cleaned with Hoppes and kept very dry to avoid stoppages. The ONLY place on the weapon that needs lubricant is the buffer tube and buffer spring.

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When i was a contract armorer/inspector in afghan, I had many talks with whoever would listen about this exact same issue. Too many guns came in bone dry. I tried to educate, but the orders from the top down were to avoid lube because they wete convinced that it "attracts dirt".

I explained the sand trials, the heirarchy of clean lubed>dirty lubed>clean dry>dirty dry and gave links to online education on the subject. Only a few dialed in soldiers were willing to listen. The idiocy of some in the officer ranks was appalling. The assumption that contractors were little work monkeys rather than trained professionals lead them to treat us like the local nationals that ran the laundry rooms.

If the Army had the capability to perform the work we did, they wouldn't have been paying us ridiculous amounts of money to be doing it for them. Technically, we are the SME'S that the Army didn't have available to do the work for them in great enough numbers to do it themselves.

The soldiers who listened always had positive results. The rest continued having issues and brought the weapons back to us for failing, time and time again, as if it were our fault.

Keep in mind, the specific unit i'm thinking of had recently deployed while i was there and had a strict rule that nobody was to dissassemble, clean, or lube their weapons without an E5 or higher there to watch them do it.

That's when i also found out that chastising a Major for not taking care of his equipment by reminding him that he sets the example, is a great way to piss him off. He was quite the self important turd.

Posted: 11/27/2020 4:12:23 AM EST

[#18]

Quote History

Quoted:

I don't have a PhD in lubrication technology but I can tell you that when I was in the army the conventional infantry "wisdom" of too much oil attracts dirt was still common and I saw and experienced TONS of failures due to under lubricating stuff to avoid "attracting dirt."

Then we got a company armorer who was a "renegade"(meaning he read the internet and tested stuff

) and we started doing "dirt attracting stuff" and stoppages magically dropped to near zero.

We even used full size spray bottles full of CLP or motor oil we would just hose all over our 240s/SAWs when shooting high volume. Never had any issues, even when blasting off wayyyyy too many rounds for the number of spare barrels we brought because the LT didn't want to turn in extra ammo and fuck the equipment, shoot 20,000 rounds in an hour so we can go home and do it fast.

Strangely that same LT was a devoted adherent of oil being dirt attracting and I vividly remember being at an EIB event and him lecturing a private in the barracks that the M4 should be cleaned with Hoppes and kept very dry to avoid stoppages. The ONLY place on the weapon that needs lubricant is the buffer tube and buffer spring.

View Quote

I bet he was great on land NAV though...

I run my shit wet and it keeps running.

Posted: 11/27/2020 4:23:04 AM EST

[#19]

LSA applies to the friction surfaces of the BCG is all you need. A few dabs of it and you are running. Don’t use lube with high viscosity because it runs off of the locations that need the lube and down into the trigger groupings. It’s not rocket science. This is applicable for non match grade and anything that doesn’t have super high tolerances. My 2011s get Lucas oil because it is thinner, but needs to be re-applied frequently

Posted: 11/27/2020 9:48:37 AM EST

[#20]

Quote History

Quoted:

I don’t know jack shit about any of this but I’m fairly certain this guy knows all the things about this

Don’t you make or test motor oil or something like that, for a living?

View Quote View All Quotes

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Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Also, I got about 45 seconds into the video closed it. Guy sounded smart until he mentioned viscosity of the product he made and how much he was spending on gun oils.

For the “thousands of dollars” he supposedly spent on gun oils, he could of bought a drum of full synthetic motor oil. And cleaned a gun after every round for years to come. Just because you’re an idiot doesn’t mean you need to announce it online.

The dude knows more about the technical design and function of the AR than pretty much anyone.

However his lubrication ideas are ridiculous.

Perhaps he does. But lacking knowledge in the fundamentals of lubrication means you don’t understand technical design.

See my link earlier.

The AR platform, along with majority of firearms, are a “way action” - or a sliding action. Way lubricants are what you would use to combat this in an industrial application.

Firearms, where the moving parts are, do not get extremely hot in the scheme of things. Otherwise we wouldn’t be able to hold the firearm.

The secondary to that, is shock. Firearms move fast and have a high shock load. Every time the round fires, recoil, etc.

Third is contamination.

Loop in the fact the firearm is not a closed loop system. Meaning, the oil isn’t contained and reused. It’s a single use product. Not like say a engine where the oil is filtered and cooled.

By doing what he is doing, first off:

He has no idea what the hell he’s making or why he’s even doing it. He might have an idea on the macro level. But he’s defeating a lot of the purpose of a lubricant. A lubricant is supposed to reduce friction.

So he’s combining a 220 base oil lithium grease, with either a 5w or 0w oil. Which is going to be 100 base oil or 70 base oil respectively.

To make what? A thicker product with lithium in it? And a tackifier?

Just use a wayoil 32 and save some money.

Secondly, you’re filling space up with the grease to make a barrier lubricant, in a sliding situation. This is actually going to increase friction over a properly spec’d lubricant. You don’t need a heavy lubricant like a grease in most firearms because the tolerances don’t call for it.

Which we could then have the conversation of tolerances, grease and contamination. But I think you see the point.

Third. As the military learned, I don’t know, a 100 fucking years ago, lithium based greases are bad as gun greases. Which is why the military used calcium based greases for their gun greases dating back before WW2.

Lithium greases hold 1 to 1 water. So 1 oz of grease will hold 1 oz of water. This is bad for corrosion resistance. As you’re relying on the corrosion inhibitors to protect metals instead of removing the problem, which is water. Calcium based greases hold .25 to 1. So 1 oz of grease will hold .25 oz of water. This combats the issue of just not letting water in.

I can go on but it’s midnight. I think my point has been made that his technical knowledge on lubricants is ignorant at best. And with that his technical knowledge on firearms, leaves me skeptical.

I don’t know jack shit about any of this but I’m fairly certain this guy knows all the things about this

Don’t you make or test motor oil or something like that, for a living?

He owns and operates an oil company. I don’t know which one it is, but it’s apparently big enough that their lubricants and other products get packaged and sold under other brands.

Posted: 11/27/2020 10:02:54 AM EST

[#21]

Quote History

Quoted:

Point #2 is where I have a hard time following you.

You have detailed knowledge of hundreds or thousands of different oils, so I'm sure there are varieties that come to mind for you with better properties than the oils I'm thinking of, but generally speaking, the oils I'm aware of as a consumer don't stay where I want them to nearly as well as greases do. Oils run/drain away while greases don't.

If I'm going to pull a gun out of the safe, take it to the range, clean it, and put it away, then sure... some fresh oil on the way in and out of the safe makes sense. But what about a gun that's going to sit for weeks, months, or even years in a just in case role?

I shouldn't have to say this, but after watching this video, I think I should also clarify... I don't "pack" anything with grease like he does the cam pin area, and I apply it in a fairly thin coat, not all gloppy and sloppy.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Also, I got about 45 seconds into the video closed it. Guy sounded smart until he mentioned viscosity of the product he made and how much he was spending on gun oils.

For the “thousands of dollars” he supposedly spent on gun oils, he could of bought a drum of full synthetic motor oil. And cleaned a gun after every round for years to come. Just because you’re an idiot doesn’t mean you need to announce it online.

The dude knows more about the technical design and function of the AR than pretty much anyone.

However his lubrication ideas are ridiculous.

Perhaps he does. But lacking knowledge in the fundamentals of lubrication means you don’t understand technical design.

See my link earlier.

The AR platform, along with majority of firearms, are a “way action” - or a sliding action. Way lubricants are what you would use to combat this in an industrial application.

Firearms, where the moving parts are, do not get extremely hot in the scheme of things. Otherwise we wouldn’t be able to hold the firearm.

The secondary to that, is shock. Firearms move fast and have a high shock load. Every time the round fires, recoil, etc.

Third is contamination.

Loop in the fact the firearm is not a closed loop system. Meaning, the oil isn’t contained and reused. It’s a single use product. Not like say a engine where the oil is filtered and cooled.

By doing what he is doing, first off:

He has no idea what the hell he’s making or why he’s even doing it. He might have an idea on the macro level. But he’s defeating a lot of the purpose of a lubricant. A lubricant is supposed to reduce friction.

So he’s combining a 220 base oil lithium grease, with either a 5w or 0w oil. Which is going to be 100 base oil or 70 base oil respectively.

To make what? A thicker product with lithium in it? And a tackifier?

Just use a wayoil 32 and save some money.

Secondly, you’re filling space up with the grease to make a barrier lubricant, in a sliding situation. This is actually going to increase friction over a properly spec’d lubricant. You don’t need a heavy lubricant like a grease in most firearms because the tolerances don’t call for it.

Which we could then have the conversation of tolerances, grease and contamination. But I think you see the point.

Third. As the military learned, I don’t know, a 100 fucking years ago, lithium based greases are bad as gun greases. Which is why the military used calcium based greases for their gun greases dating back before WW2.

Lithium greases hold 1 to 1 water. So 1 oz of grease will hold 1 oz of water. This is bad for corrosion resistance. As you’re relying on the corrosion inhibitors to protect metals instead of removing the problem, which is water. Calcium based greases hold .25 to 1. So 1 oz of grease will hold .25 oz of water. This combats the issue of just not letting water in.

I can go on but it’s midnight. I think my point has been made that his technical knowledge on lubricants is ignorant at best. And with that his technical knowledge on firearms, leaves me skeptical.

The lithium grease corrosion discussion is new to me. I'm pretty sure the grease I've been using is probably lithium based.

I think the tolerances part of the conversation is something one can eyeball to an extent. A Dan Wesson, Nighthawk, or a tighter space like where a bolt sits in a BCG is obviously not where you'd want a grease. But much looser areas? Why not?

"Way oil" sounds interesting, but they don't seem to sell it anywhere consumer facing.

Why have a grease in an area not designed for grease?

Here’s a good read of grease vs oil.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/923/grease-oil

My opinion, take it for what it’s worth, which is some asshole on the internet. That doesn’t make money off YouTube or have any reason to be e-famous.

1. Again, a firearm isn’t a closed system. Or semi closed system. You’re going to get a ton of contaminants in it. That’s just a function of a firearm in use. So cleaning regularly is recommended maintenance.

2. Grease, like oil, won’t stay where you want it to in an open system like a firearm. Sure, it’s more tacky. But it’s going to sling just like oil. Why/how? Well, most of the time because it’s about 60-70% oil anyways. Just a heavy oil.

3. Grease can cause fiction, instead of reducing it in the wrong application.

4. Grease comes with it’s own set of issues. Such as oil bleed off. The oil that grease is formulated with, will separate out from the grease and drop off with time. Given, higher performance greases are different. As well as different types of greases such as polyurea, PTFE, silicone and other exotics have different characteristics. But for the sake of this conversation, we’re talking about conventional greases. Specifically, a lithium based product that he is using and most use.

The oil will leave the thickener. Which then inhibits the performance of the grease. Which, leads to lubrication failure.

5. Where is grease used primarily?
- extreme pressure situations. King pins, U joints, bucket pins.

These situations are high shock load, high pressure areas that are semi sealed in normal conditions. Also once through applications. This is to prevent wear on those points. But they have to be regularly maintained.

One could argue trailer bearings, or bearing applications are high speed. But that’s why in most heavy duty / high speed applications you have oil systems. Think a light duty landscaping trailer vs a heavy duty semi trailer. Semi trailers use oil bath bearings. Light duty use grease.

Which has more failures per mile traveled? Grease.

6. Also, think about these applications. They’re all one way lubricants. You purge the old out when you put the new in. Which means they’re semi sealed. The grease creates a seal on the exit end. The zerk fitting seals the grease entry point. Guns don’t have this luxury. There is no “seal” on an AR. So there is nothing to seal. Thus nothing to for the grease to seal.

So back to why not use it in an AR?

Why use it to begin with? If you’re using it primarily for its oil... why not use an oil? Just a higher risk of contamination build up once the oil leaves the grease.

Now if you’re going to build a gun and put in an armory for 100 years like the fucking Russians? Yeah. Pack that mother fucker with grease.

Actual use? Most applications... oil. Clean your gun. Save some time and mess.

Way lubricants are mostly used in metal working applications. You can get a 5 gallon bucket for like 50 buck or less.

Edit:

There are definitely uses of grease in certain firearms. The M1 garand. The 1911. As they were designed with it in mind. You can certainly use oil on them too. Just a note. This is not a blanket statement of “grease bad. Oil good.” Use your knoggin. Think a bit about the mechanical action at hand. Both can work. Grease can certainly work in an AR. But, I propose the question of why?

Even more, why bother with his mixture? For what he spent there he could just buy a semi fluid grease.

Edit 2:

To the topic of lithium and corrosion resistance. It’s why most marine greases are calcium based.

Link to a good article again, as I’m too tired to write it out.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29658/multi-purpose-grease

Point #2 is where I have a hard time following you.

You have detailed knowledge of hundreds or thousands of different oils, so I'm sure there are varieties that come to mind for you with better properties than the oils I'm thinking of, but generally speaking, the oils I'm aware of as a consumer don't stay where I want them to nearly as well as greases do. Oils run/drain away while greases don't.

If I'm going to pull a gun out of the safe, take it to the range, clean it, and put it away, then sure... some fresh oil on the way in and out of the safe makes sense. But what about a gun that's going to sit for weeks, months, or even years in a just in case role?

I shouldn't have to say this, but after watching this video, I think I should also clarify... I don't "pack" anything with grease like he does the cam pin area, and I apply it in a fairly thin coat, not all gloppy and sloppy.

Point 2 was under the assumption the firearm would be used or you’re lubricating a firearm to be used shortly after. Not mid to long term storage.

Grease will sling like oil after the firearm is used. Thus my comment of not stay in place.

If you’re planning to have it sit for months? Sure wipe it down with a thin layer of grease. You’ll have some oil bleed out, but the grease shouldn’t get too crusty in that time period.

If you’re planning on storing it for years without use or any maintenance and cleaning done? You’ll still have a puddle of oil from the grease, as the bleed out of oil will happen in most greases. There are some specialty storage greases we can talk about. But really, if a gun sits for a long period, I’ll call it 8+ months, you should throw some fresh oil on it. (Or grease!) before use.

Posted: 11/27/2020 10:06:05 AM EST

[#22]

Quote History

Quoted:

I don’t know jack shit about any of this but I’m fairly certain this guy knows all the things about this

Don’t you make or test motor oil or something like that, for a living?

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Also, I got about 45 seconds into the video closed it. Guy sounded smart until he mentioned viscosity of the product he made and how much he was spending on gun oils.

For the “thousands of dollars” he supposedly spent on gun oils, he could of bought a drum of full synthetic motor oil. And cleaned a gun after every round for years to come. Just because you’re an idiot doesn’t mean you need to announce it online.

The dude knows more about the technical design and function of the AR than pretty much anyone.

However his lubrication ideas are ridiculous.

Perhaps he does. But lacking knowledge in the fundamentals of lubrication means you don’t understand technical design.

See my link earlier.

The AR platform, along with majority of firearms, are a “way action” - or a sliding action. Way lubricants are what you would use to combat this in an industrial application.

Firearms, where the moving parts are, do not get extremely hot in the scheme of things. Otherwise we wouldn’t be able to hold the firearm.

The secondary to that, is shock. Firearms move fast and have a high shock load. Every time the round fires, recoil, etc.

Third is contamination.

Loop in the fact the firearm is not a closed loop system. Meaning, the oil isn’t contained and reused. It’s a single use product. Not like say a engine where the oil is filtered and cooled.

By doing what he is doing, first off:

He has no idea what the hell he’s making or why he’s even doing it. He might have an idea on the macro level. But he’s defeating a lot of the purpose of a lubricant. A lubricant is supposed to reduce friction.

So he’s combining a 220 base oil lithium grease, with either a 5w or 0w oil. Which is going to be 100 base oil or 70 base oil respectively.

To make what? A thicker product with lithium in it? And a tackifier?

Just use a wayoil 32 and save some money.

Secondly, you’re filling space up with the grease to make a barrier lubricant, in a sliding situation. This is actually going to increase friction over a properly spec’d lubricant. You don’t need a heavy lubricant like a grease in most firearms because the tolerances don’t call for it.

Which we could then have the conversation of tolerances, grease and contamination. But I think you see the point.

Third. As the military learned, I don’t know, a 100 fucking years ago, lithium based greases are bad as gun greases. Which is why the military used calcium based greases for their gun greases dating back before WW2.

Lithium greases hold 1 to 1 water. So 1 oz of grease will hold 1 oz of water. This is bad for corrosion resistance. As you’re relying on the corrosion inhibitors to protect metals instead of removing the problem, which is water. Calcium based greases hold .25 to 1. So 1 oz of grease will hold .25 oz of water. This combats the issue of just not letting water in.

I can go on but it’s midnight. I think my point has been made that his technical knowledge on lubricants is ignorant at best. And with that his technical knowledge on firearms, leaves me skeptical.

I don’t know jack shit about any of this but I’m fairly certain this guy knows all the things about this

Don’t you make or test motor oil or something like that, for a living?

Just supply Lubricants and technical advice on lubricants to some of the largest steel, aluminum and specialty alloy manufacturers in North American. As well as the mining industry, machining industry, construction, food and automotive industries.

Motor oil is about 1/2 of our over all volume. But not the only thing we do.

Posted: 11/27/2020 10:09:14 AM EST

[#23]

Post a description (and pics) of your AR lubricant/s and lubrication process.

Posted: 11/27/2020 10:20:33 AM EST

[#24]

Quote History

Quoted:

I don't have a PhD in lubrication technology but I can tell you that when I was in the army the conventional infantry "wisdom" of too much oil attracts dirt was still common and I saw and experienced TONS of failures due to under lubricating stuff to avoid "attracting dirt."

Then we got a company armorer who was a "renegade"(meaning he read the internet and tested stuff

) and we started doing "dirt attracting stuff" and stoppages magically dropped to near zero.

We even used full size spray bottles full of CLP or motor oil we would just hose all over our 240s/SAWs when shooting high volume. Never had any issues, even when blasting off wayyyyy too many rounds for the number of spare barrels we brought because the LT didn't want to turn in extra ammo and fuck the equipment, shoot 20,000 rounds in an hour so we can go home and do it fast.

Strangely that same LT was a devoted adherent of oil being dirt attracting and I vividly remember being at an EIB event and him lecturing a private in the barracks that the M4 should be cleaned with Hoppes and kept very dry to avoid stoppages. The ONLY place on the weapon that needs lubricant is the buffer tube and buffer spring.

View Quote

Attached File

Posted: 11/27/2020 10:21:45 AM EST

[#25]

Pat Rogers had a great solution for those who didn't know how to lube a rifle...

Posted: 11/27/2020 10:24:20 AM EST

[#26]

Quote History

Quoted:
Pat Rogers had a great solution for those who didn't know how to lube a rifle...

View Quote

Which, apparently, is most of GD.

Posted: 11/27/2020 10:35:50 AM EST

[#27]

Quote History

Quoted:

Point 2 was under the assumption the firearm would be used or you’re lubricating a firearm to be used shortly after. Not mid to long term storage.

Grease will sling like oil after the firearm is used. Thus my comment of not stay in place.

If you’re planning to have it sit for months? Sure wipe it down with a thin layer of grease. You’ll have some oil bleed out, but the grease shouldn’t get too crusty in that time period.

If you’re planning on storing it for years without use or any maintenance and cleaning done? You’ll still have a puddle of oil from the grease, as the bleed out of oil will happen in most greases. There are some specialty storage greases we can talk about. But really, if a gun sits for a long period, I’ll call it 8+ months, you should throw some fresh oil on it. (Or grease!) before use.

View Quote View All Quotes

View All Quotes

Quote History

Quoted:

Quoted:
Also, I got about 45 seconds into the video closed it. Guy sounded smart until he mentioned viscosity of the product he made and how much he was spending on gun oils.

For the “thousands of dollars” he supposedly spent on gun oils, he could of bought a drum of full synthetic motor oil. And cleaned a gun after every round for years to come. Just because you’re an idiot doesn’t mean you need to announce it online.

The dude knows more about the technical design and function of the AR than pretty much anyone.

However his lubrication ideas are ridiculous.

Perhaps he does. But lacking knowledge in the fundamentals of lubrication means you don’t understand technical design.

See my link earlier.

The AR platform, along with majority of firearms, are a “way action” - or a sliding action. Way lubricants are what you would use to combat this in an industrial application.

Firearms, where the moving parts are, do not get extremely hot in the scheme of things. Otherwise we wouldn’t be able to hold the firearm.

The secondary to that, is shock. Firearms move fast and have a high shock load. Every time the round fires, recoil, etc.

Third is contamination.

Loop in the fact the firearm is not a closed loop system. Meaning, the oil isn’t contained and reused. It’s a single use product. Not like say a engine where the oil is filtered and cooled.

By doing what he is doing, first off:

He has no idea what the hell he’s making or why he’s even doing it. He might have an idea on the macro level. But he’s defeating a lot of the purpose of a lubricant. A lubricant is supposed to reduce friction.

So he’s combining a 220 base oil lithium grease, with either a 5w or 0w oil. Which is going to be 100 base oil or 70 base oil respectively.

To make what? A thicker product with lithium in it? And a tackifier?

Just use a wayoil 32 and save some money.

Secondly, you’re filling space up with the grease to make a barrier lubricant, in a sliding situation. This is actually going to increase friction over a properly spec’d lubricant. You don’t need a heavy lubricant like a grease in most firearms because the tolerances don’t call for it.

Which we could then have the conversation of tolerances, grease and contamination. But I think you see the point.

Third. As the military learned, I don’t know, a 100 fucking years ago, lithium based greases are bad as gun greases. Which is why the military used calcium based greases for their gun greases dating back before WW2.

Lithium greases hold 1 to 1 water. So 1 oz of grease will hold 1 oz of water. This is bad for corrosion resistance. As you’re relying on the corrosion inhibitors to protect metals instead of removing the problem, which is water. Calcium based greases hold .25 to 1. So 1 oz of grease will hold .25 oz of water. This combats the issue of just not letting water in.

I can go on but it’s midnight. I think my point has been made that his technical knowledge on lubricants is ignorant at best. And with that his technical knowledge on firearms, leaves me skeptical.

The lithium grease corrosion discussion is new to me. I'm pretty sure the grease I've been using is probably lithium based.

I think the tolerances part of the conversation is something one can eyeball to an extent. A Dan Wesson, Nighthawk, or a tighter space like where a bolt sits in a BCG is obviously not where you'd want a grease. But much looser areas? Why not?

"Way oil" sounds interesting, but they don't seem to sell it anywhere consumer facing.

Why have a grease in an area not designed for grease?

Here’s a good read of grease vs oil.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/923/grease-oil

My opinion, take it for what it’s worth, which is some asshole on the internet. That doesn’t make money off YouTube or have any reason to be e-famous.

1. Again, a firearm isn’t a closed system. Or semi closed system. You’re going to get a ton of contaminants in it. That’s just a function of a firearm in use. So cleaning regularly is recommended maintenance.

2. Grease, like oil, won’t stay where you want it to in an open system like a firearm. Sure, it’s more tacky. But it’s going to sling just like oil. Why/how? Well, most of the time because it’s about 60-70% oil anyways. Just a heavy oil.

3. Grease can cause fiction, instead of reducing it in the wrong application.

4. Grease comes with it’s own set of issues. Such as oil bleed off. The oil that grease is formulated with, will separate out from the grease and drop off with time. Given, higher performance greases are different. As well as different types of greases such as polyurea, PTFE, silicone and other exotics have different characteristics. But for the sake of this conversation, we’re talking about conventional greases. Specifically, a lithium based product that he is using and most use.

The oil will leave the thickener. Which then inhibits the performance of the grease. Which, leads to lubrication failure.

5. Where is grease used primarily?
- extreme pressure situations. King pins, U joints, bucket pins.

These situations are high shock load, high pressure areas that are semi sealed in normal conditions. Also once through applications. This is to prevent wear on those points. But they have to be regularly maintained.

One could argue trailer bearings, or bearing applications are high speed. But that’s why in most heavy duty / high speed applications you have oil systems. Think a light duty landscaping trailer vs a heavy duty semi trailer. Semi trailers use oil bath bearings. Light duty use grease.

Which has more failures per mile traveled? Grease.

6. Also, think about these applications. They’re all one way lubricants. You purge the old out when you put the new in. Which means they’re semi sealed. The grease creates a seal on the exit end. The zerk fitting seals the grease entry point. Guns don’t have this luxury. There is no “seal” on an AR. So there is nothing to seal. Thus nothing to for the grease to seal.

So back to why not use it in an AR?

Why use it to begin with? If you’re using it primarily for its oil... why not use an oil? Just a higher risk of contamination build up once the oil leaves the grease.

Now if you’re going to build a gun and put in an armory for 100 years like the fucking Russians? Yeah. Pack that mother fucker with grease.

Actual use? Most applications... oil. Clean your gun. Save some time and mess.

Way lubricants are mostly used in metal working applications. You can get a 5 gallon bucket for like 50 buck or less.

Edit:

There are definitely uses of grease in certain firearms. The M1 garand. The 1911. As they were designed with it in mind. You can certainly use oil on them too. Just a note. This is not a blanket statement of “grease bad. Oil good.” Use your knoggin. Think a bit about the mechanical action at hand. Both can work. Grease can certainly work in an AR. But, I propose the question of why?

Even more, why bother with his mixture? For what he spent there he could just buy a semi fluid grease.

Edit 2:

To the topic of lithium and corrosion resistance. It’s why most marine greases are calcium based.

Link to a good article again, as I’m too tired to write it out.

https://www.machinerylubrication.com/Read/29658/multi-purpose-grease

Point #2 is where I have a hard time following you.

You have detailed knowledge of hundreds or thousands of different oils, so I'm sure there are varieties that come to mind for you with better properties than the oils I'm thinking of, but generally speaking, the oils I'm aware of as a consumer don't stay where I want them to nearly as well as greases do. Oils run/drain away while greases don't.

If I'm going to pull a gun out of the safe, take it to the range, clean it, and put it away, then sure... some fresh oil on the way in and out of the safe makes sense. But what about a gun that's going to sit for weeks, months, or even years in a just in case role?

I shouldn't have to say this, but after watching this video, I think I should also clarify... I don't "pack" anything with grease like he does the cam pin area, and I apply it in a fairly thin coat, not all gloppy and sloppy.

Point 2 was under the assumption the firearm would be used or you’re lubricating a firearm to be used shortly after. Not mid to long term storage.

Grease will sling like oil after the firearm is used. Thus my comment of not stay in place.

If you’re planning to have it sit for months? Sure wipe it down with a thin layer of grease. You’ll have some oil bleed out, but the grease shouldn’t get too crusty in that time period.

If you’re planning on storing it for years without use or any maintenance and cleaning done? You’ll still have a puddle of oil from the grease, as the bleed out of oil will happen in most greases. There are some specialty storage greases we can talk about. But really, if a gun sits for a long period, I’ll call it 8+ months, you should throw some fresh oil on it. (Or grease!) before use.

When you say "slings," are you talking about lubricant flying off the applied surface due to inertia?

Is there a flavor of grease commonly available at automotive/hardware stores you think would be more appropriate?

Posted: 11/27/2020 10:46:52 AM EST

[#28]

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Quoted:

When you say "slings," are you talking about lubricant flying off the applied surface due to inertia?

Is there a flavor of grease commonly available at automotive/hardware stores you think would be more appropriate?