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Posted: 12/20/2018 11:46:35 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote History#drainingtheswamp #stillnottiredofwinning
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Posted: 12/20/2018 11:48:04 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We were for a while. It kinda' ended on December 7, 1941. |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 11:48:59 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
GOOD, get us the fuck out of these endless wars. We are energy independent, let Russia and China have the Middle East. |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 11:49:40 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds great but Obama done Obama for 8 years. Same Obama who wanted out in 2008. So is it a surprise where we are in 2017? He didn’t listen to generals, nor did he technically have to as CinC. He decided to bail on Iraq and most of the American public cheered that decision until 2014 then everyone said “how can this happen?” Except McCain who is the broken clock that wanted to bomb everybody. Isolationism didn’t build us a wall on 1939 not stop Pearl Harbor. I see no dots connected between pull up stakes everywhere and we get a wall and illegals no longer enter the country. This who thread is a bunch of Russian talking points about “end game” without specifying how leaving Syria gets us a border wall. I’m indifferent to Syria. Leave stay, whatever but the mental gymnastics of leave = immigration gets fixed is just bizarre Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No I wouldn't but what's done is done. Here we are 17 years in. What's the goal? Can we get there? What will it take? Is it worth it? What happens if we leave? A leader asks these unpopular questions and demands answers. He also must feel some responsibility for everyone from Mattis to the youngest private that just enlisted. Hell of a responsibility and not a job I'd want. Proxy wars have never won anything. They just make a mess of unintended consequences. Iraq and Afghanistan were both indirect results of US covert support with the goal of fighting Iran and the soviets... in the short term it worked..somewhat. If you want to effect world politics, convince people to see things your way, kill everyone you can't convince, setup the survivors for success, then get the fuck out. The best thing HW bush ever did was not go all the way to Baghdad. That solution doesn't look possible or palatable in afganistan...so...? |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 11:53:03 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds great but Obama done Obama for 8 years. Same Obama who wanted out in 2008. So is it a surprise where we are in 2017? He didn't listen to generals, nor did he technically have to as CinC. He decided to bail on Iraq and most of the American public cheered that decision until 2014 then everyone said "how can this happen?" Except McCain who is the broken clock that wanted to bomb everybody. Isolationism didn't build us a wall in 1939 not stop Pearl Harbor. I see no dots connected between pull up stakes everywhere and we get a wall and illegals no longer enter the country. This thread has a bunch of Russian talking points about "end game" without specifying how leaving Syria gets us a border wall in the USA. I'm indifferent to Syria. Leave stay, whatever but the mental gymnastics of leave = immigration gets fixed is just bizarre |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 11:53:10 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why do you think the US does it? And what is the solution when a hostile country fills the void? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Well there are 195 nations in the world. You named 8, and lets not pretend the comparisons are even remotely close to what the US engages in or spends on. Like I said, it is not a false dichotomy. And what is the solution when a hostile country fills the void? Real threats to the US include: a porous border, a ridiculous immigration system, a student visa and university system that pushes out US citizens in exchange for full price chinese tuition students who steal grad work and develop relationships with US citizens who go on to work at our top defense contractors and tech firms. Corporations that hire foreign nationals in order to drive down wages and end up throwing their hands up and pretending they don't know how IP keeps getting stolen. Grid, banking, and infrastructure systems that were the best 1995 had to offer and adversaries who have leveled up enough now to take advantage of that. By all means though lets keep fighting over last generation energy in the middle east with rifles against thirdworlders because thats all our aging leadership knows. |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 11:53:49 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Philippines 1898? 1918 Siberia? Chinese Boxer Rebellion? Banana wars in the 20s and 30s? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: We were for a while. It kinda' ended on December 7, 1941. |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 11:54:10 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We were for a while. It kinda' ended on December 7, 1941. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: It has worked for countless countries and it is not binary. Total leftist bullshit.  |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 11:55:46 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get not wanting to be the world's cop, but if we're not going to do that, our rivals (Russia, China, Iran, etc.) will. We were holding Syrian oil fields, which gave us a say in things while pummeling ISIS. Now Iran or Russia will control that. But Trump knows more than all the generals, so I'm sure it's going to turn out fine. 
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Posted: 12/20/2018 11:58:46 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
? So you feel if there was no military no Afghanistan and no wars overseas the Congress would take immigration and building a wall seriously? Yes or no will suffice Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If we treated the communist migrants as seriously of a threat as we treated these middle eastern shitholes, we absolutely could have had a wall and stronger immigration policies. It helps when we're actually able to keep the socialists migrants away from the voting boxes, by not allowing them here in the first place. We're rapidly approaching critical mass before it's impossible to ever have conservative control of washington again because we simply can't outvote all the imported voters. And who knows, we probably could have prevented 9/11 with much stronger border and immigration controls. Here's a question, are the perpetual nation-building warhawks still going to be calling for us to get involved in every skirmish abroad after the socialists take control, completely open the borders, give the migrants the right to vote, we wind up reaching critical mass and are never able to elect another conservative majority again? Are the happenings in Kandahar Afghanistan still going to be of critical importance to you when you have the boot of Ocasio Cortez and 10s of millions of socialists latin-american migrants on your throat? Remember , the Louisiana purchase was recognized as being unconstitutional by a president who had signed the damn thing. |
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Posted: 12/20/2018 11:59:23 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The 25th amendment needs to be invoked. Clearly Trump's cheese has slid all the way off his cracker.
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:00:13 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Can you tell me who ISIS is exactly? Because bombing targets for “moderate” rebels that are probably actually ISIS is pretty fucking retarded and I’m pretty fucking sure we did it. We have ZERO right to be Syria to begin with. I hope Mattis takes his trannies with him. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/478870/7D26F577-E920-46F8-910C-F1AD43DE933B_jpeg-779523.JPG Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: What proof do you have that they are almost totally eliminated? None. Because it’s complete horseshit. We have ZERO right to be Syria to begin with. I hope Mattis takes his trannies with him. https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/478870/7D26F577-E920-46F8-910C-F1AD43DE933B_jpeg-779523.JPG 
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:02:36 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well there are 195 nations in the world. You named 8, and lets not pretend the comparisons are even remotely close to what the US engages in or spends on. Like I said, it is not a false dichotomy.  Failed To Load Title |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:03:25 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What signs are you referring to? Isolationism doesn’t work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I never said they were defeated. Who are we bombing targets for because all signs point to no one fucking knows. What business do we have in another foreign county? Tell me? Isolationism doesn’t work. 
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:06:02 AM EDT
[#15]
Mattis Puts Trump's Presidency in Peril
The strong implication here is that Mattis no longer believes the president thinks allies should be respected. He is resigning because he does not believe Trump agrees with him that America should work to preserve a liberal international order. He is resigning because Trump is not as resolute and unambiguous with America's adversaries as Mattis believes he should be. In other words: This is not about policy. It's about values and, according to his letter, Mattis no longer believes the president shares his values. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:06:30 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Isolationism couldn't stop PH because we were absolutely not isolationists in 1941. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:09:41 AM EDT
[#17]
For those going on an on about foreign entanglements, how did America abandoning the role of Leader of the Free World go under Obama?
America can fought very hard to be THE power in The Free World and, The World's Police. Roosevelt to Reagan, that's what America strove to be. When Obama walked away from that World Order which WE created, the World descended into chaos. But now it's a good idea for Trump to do the same thing. 
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:10:20 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yeah...that's not my argument at all..I see no connection between overseas military action and border security. I just want a military with a mission that at least has a chance of being accomplished. Give them a mission and the resources to get it done. Then get them home. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:10:47 AM EDT
[#19]
Bummer
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:11:23 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mattis Puts Trump's Presidency in Peril The Author, Eli Lake was on Batchelor tonight. He was not optimistic about this resignation or Trump's presidency going forward. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mattis Puts Trump's Presidency in Peril The strong implication here is that Mattis no longer believes the president thinks allies should be respected. He is resigning because he does not believe Trump agrees with him that America should work to preserve a liberal international order. He is resigning because Trump is not as resolute and unambiguous with America's adversaries as Mattis believes he should be. In other words: This is not about policy. It's about values and, according to his letter, Mattis no longer believes the president shares his values. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:12:31 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The isolationist movement resulted from the ridiculous debacle of WW1 and the realization that it achieved nothing. All you got is the Banana wars, the US was not going to abandon the Monroe Doctrine even as an isolationist nation, but that was not exactly a costly or big adventure. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:13:52 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How do you know? Britain and France May or may not have transparent accounting but China doesn’t divulge its Defense expenditure and neither do most of those countries. As for 195, I guess I’ll add more till you dance on Switzerland, Iceland, New Zealand & Tahiti as proof. India - Nepal, Afghanistan & Sri Lanka, South Africa until apartheid ended - Angola etc. Cuba - Central & South America & Angola, Japan & Germany before WW2, Australia - Papua New Guinea vs Indonesia, Indonesia invading New Guinea with paratroops, Egypt - air strikes & SOF to Libya, Yemen & Sudan, Sudan - South Sudan, Libya, etc. Somalia - Eritrea, Ethiopia, as well as pirates impededing international trade. Each time you subtract from 195, I’ll return and post a new set of countries sending uniformed and non uniformed personnel on military adventures outside their borders. The USA is only on a large scale because of geography lends itself to the Atlantic, Pacific and the America’s south of us. The USA was trading with China in 1810. We have a long history of being everywhere  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MzpkSqF7dUQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Well there are 195 nations in the world. You named 8, and lets not pretend the comparisons are even remotely close to what the US engages in or spends on. Like I said, it is not a false dichotomy. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6MzpkSqF7dU |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:15:29 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If we had followed the Constitution we could be an agrarian backwater and defend our farms with long rifles AND LIKE IT THAT WAY. Remember , the Louisiana purchase was recognized as being unconstitutional by a president who had signed the damn thing. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:18:14 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Mattis Puts Trump's Presidency in Peril The Author, Eli Lake was on Batchelor tonight. He was not optimistic about this resignation or Trump's presidency going forward. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:19:37 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Isolationism couldn't stop PH because we were absolutely not isolationists in 1941. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:20:37 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I asked one question, to which you have not given any answer. What is the "win condition" for the US to allow us to bring our troops home that isn't open ended? You aren't answering because you have no answer and know your position is unsustainable. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:21:00 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For those going on an on about foreign entanglements, how did America abandoning the role of Leader of the Free World go under Obama? America can fought very hard to be THE power in The Free World and, The World's Police. Roosevelt to Reagan, that's what America strove to be. When Obama walked away from that World Order which WE created, the World descended into chaos. But now it's a good idea for Trump to do the same thing. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:22:53 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ummm trading with China? We clearly have different ideas about 'isolationism'. I am pretty sure I made the pitfalls of a false dichotomy argument clear. So yes, since we traded with China in 1810 and fought some pirates, or because countries on occasion engage in war, clearly we must also engage in 17 year police actions, and have bases all over the world, and save the Middle East from themselves in order to be consistent. Jesus. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:23:31 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote History |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:24:51 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
#drainingtheswamp #stillnottiredofwinning |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:29:24 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Speaking of which how do the Indian wars play into the USA being isolationist or not being isolationist? Wasn’t the last Indian war in the 1890s? What was the brou haha over Canada, Britain, Oregon & Washington stars? I never took the time to read up on it Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
If we had followed the Constitution we could be an agrarian backwater and defend our farms with long rifles AND LIKE IT THAT WAY. Remember , the Louisiana purchase was recognized as being unconstitutional by a president who had signed the damn thing. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:31:45 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I got Wikipedia’d LOL Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
#drainingtheswamp #stillnottiredofwinning |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:35:05 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
For a group that routinely agitated for a third party, a third position seems to blow a lot of minds.  Montell Jordan - This Is How We Do It (Official Music Video) |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:37:47 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But don’t let this distract you from the fact that #taxationistheft and AnCap would be better than the Constitution. 
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:38:28 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But Afghanistan is? School me with some dollar comparisons Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: The isolationist movement resulted from the ridiculous debacle of WW1 and the realization that it achieved nothing. All you got is the Banana wars, the US was not going to abandon the Monroe Doctrine even as an isolationist nation, but that was not exactly a costly or big adventure. 
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:40:54 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wikipedia? Sigh Quote HistoryQuoted:
Wikipedia? Sigh 
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:43:49 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
For a group that routinely agitated for a third party, a third position seems to blow a lot of minds. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hiUuL5uTKcIt explains so much. But both sides insist “Do something!” But the other option is fatalism, so... |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:44:07 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
lol are you implying the timeline is fake or something? The embargoes or other events didn't happen? Your link was just a grade school summary of a movement, no events or details. Jesus |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 12:56:41 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Liberals dream of a future that can never be, conservatives dream of a past that never was. -someone who’s name I forget. It explains so much. But both sides insist “Do something!” But the other option is fatalism, so... |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 1:09:07 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well the goods news is come 2020 all will be right, Democrats will fund a wall, Democrats will rebuild the military and ensure it will only fight non nation building wars. Since the GOP is a giant shit sand which for many conservatives what’s next? Every conservative moves to low population red states and life is good again? How does this play out 5 to 10 years from now? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Liberals dream of a future that can never be, conservatives dream of a past that never was. -someone who’s name I forget. It explains so much. But both sides insist “Do something!” But the other option is fatalism, so... |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 1:09:10 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Too much brilliance for me to cope with. Hit me with some more Wikipedia, I’m weak at the knees and about to go down Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
lol are you implying the timeline is fake or something? The embargoes or other events didn't happen? Your link was just a grade school summary of a movement, no events or details. Jesus |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 1:10:54 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So Desert Storm 2.0? Obviously not Korea 2.0 as were still in South Korea along with 4 brigades in Europe now opposed to Russia with Tennessee Army National Guard troops spending Christmas in the Ukraine while Serbia and Russia have a shit fit over Kosovo. No end game in Europe post Nazis either Are you saying your ok with a 17 year shooting war? If on Sept 12th 2001 you knew it would take over a decade to get bin laden and we'd still be losing soldiers 17 years later would you been ok with it? That's a tough one, we were seeing red..I might have said Ok, but after bin laden what is our major goal? Unified democratic government for some of the world's most tribal and independant people? Good fuckin luck. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 1:12:38 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm saying Obama only losing 7 people during 8 years is wrong. Do these add up to 7? 4 SECDEFs 3 press secretary 3 dciaa 2 odni 2 sec state 2 AG Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Quoted:
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Just between Chief of staff, Communications director, Press secretary, National Security Adviser, FBI director, CIA director, Trump has tore through 18 senior level folks in 2 years. Obama went through 7 in 8 years and Bush 9 in 8 years. Adamant Trump supporters remind me of the South Park cop... Anything at all Obama did was utter garbage although anything bad about Trump this is them: https://www.chronicle.com/blogs/linguafranca/files/2017/11/Nothing-to-See-15a34a2fc727c8.jpg https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/trump-turnover-rate-firings-resignations-compared-obama-bush-clinton-2018-3 4 SECDEFs 3 press secretary 3 dciaa 2 odni 2 sec state 2 AG |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 1:16:20 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm conflicted. I liked mattis, I also dont mind seeing Joes come home to their families with all of their arms and legs. I think there are wars worth fighting, but we need to choose them carefully and get out as quickly as we can. So leaving Syria doesn't bother me...it also doesn't mean we can go back if need be or just adjust our foot print as needed. If ISIS wasn't the reason we were there...what geopolitical imperative was worth our effort? |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 1:19:27 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I get not wanting to be the world's cop, but if we're not going to do that, our rivals (Russia, China, Iran, etc.) will. We were holding Syrian oil fields, which gave us a say in things while pummeling ISIS. Now Iran or Russia will control that. But Trump knows more than all the generals, so I'm sure it's going to turn out fine. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 1:19:35 AM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We aren't the glue holding south Korea or Europe together..when was the last soldier lost to enemy action in Germany or Japan? On the DMZ? Are you saying your ok with a 17 year shooting war? If on Sept 12th 2001 you knew it would take over a decade to get bin laden and we'd still be losing soldiers 17 years later would you been ok with it? That's a tough one, we were seeing red..I might have said Ok, but after bin laden what is our major goal? Unified democratic government for some of the world's most tribal and independant people? Good fuckin luck. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 1:21:17 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well in that case nobody did more to help Iranian hegemony along then Bush by inadvertently handing it over to Iran ostensibly. Great strategeeery! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm conflicted. I liked mattis, I also dont mind seeing Joes come home to their families with all of their arms and legs. I think there are wars worth fighting, but we need to choose them carefully and get out as quickly as we can. So leaving Syria doesn't bother me...it also doesn't mean we can go back if need be or just adjust our foot print as needed. If ISIS wasn't the reason we were there...what geopolitical imperative was worth our effort? |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 1:23:17 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Bush had won that war and had even Qaddaffi handing over his wmd's by the time he left office. It's not his damned fault liberals like you and Obongo handed it back before it was completely secured. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I'm conflicted. I liked mattis, I also dont mind seeing Joes come home to their families with all of their arms and legs. I think there are wars worth fighting, but we need to choose them carefully and get out as quickly as we can. So leaving Syria doesn't bother me...it also doesn't mean we can go back if need be or just adjust our foot print as needed. If ISIS wasn't the reason we were there...what geopolitical imperative was worth our effort? 
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Posted: 12/21/2018 1:23:36 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So in other words you got nothing and resort to a logical fallacy. Gee I wish I could say I was brilliant, but clearly that is not required in this instance. Maybe if I post a link with the exact same information but with a seal that will make all the difference lol. You made a claim that isolationism didn't stop PH when any historical record shows we were actively engaged in countering Japan leading up to the attack...we will not even get into the 1940 draft and all the war preparations, or our involvement with Lend lease in early 41. We were gearing up for war, this is not in dispute. You're simply being exceptionally obtuse for some reason. |
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Posted: 12/21/2018 1:25:56 AM EDT
[#50]
that resignation letter is a giant FU and i approve of it
FDJT |
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