User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 10:26:46 AM EST
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I thought he found that 5.56 started tumbling through the sheetrock after a couple walls where the pistol and 00 kept going? Am I remembering that wrong? It did deviate, but it also penetrated the same amount as the 00 buck did in that test (both went through 4 walls). Whether it has enough energy to do any damage after that is questionable, but they did both penetrate all of the walls he put in front of them. The general consensus seems to be that 00 buck and 556 penetrate similar amounts, while handguns penetrate a lot more. As far as terminal ballistics go, as long as you're using a quality 00 of #1 buck that is proven to penetrate deep enough, they'll work just fine. It's just literally every other aspect of shotguns that make them less than ideal. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 10:28:38 AM EST
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is "I just like them and shoot them VERY well" not a valid reason? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Meh. My HD weapon is an M&P9. Either a shotgun or a carbine would be an upgrade. I just don't see any valid reason to choose a shotgun over a carbine. (assuming you can own both, laws, etc) Is "I just like them and shoot them VERY well" not a valid reason? I shoot a shotgun very well too. Anybody that shoots a shotgun well is going to shoot a rifle significantly better. Plus you get all of the benefits that rifles provide over shotguns. It isn't the 90s anymore. Technology has changed. Why limit yourself when better options are so readily available? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 10:30:38 AM EST
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I shoot a shotgun very well too. Anybody that shoots a shotgun well is going to shoot a rifle significantly better. Plus you get all of the benefits that rifles provide over shotguns. It isn't the 1890s anymore. Technology has changed. Why limit yourself when better options are so readily available? 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 10:31:44 AM EST
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
8+1 dragon's breath... I can unload the whole tube in .87 seconds with my Benelli M4. I see if some assholes break into your house you'll just up the ante and burn it all to the ground. No point in stealing ashes. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 10:36:08 AM EST
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I shoot a shotgun very well too. Anybody that shoots a shotgun well is going to shoot a rifle significantly better. Plus you get all of the benefits that rifles provide over shotguns. It isn't the 90s anymore. Technology has changed. Why limit yourself when better options are so readily available? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Meh. My HD weapon is an M&P9. Either a shotgun or a carbine would be an upgrade. I just don't see any valid reason to choose a shotgun over a carbine. (assuming you can own both, laws, etc) Is "I just like them and shoot them VERY well" not a valid reason? I shoot a shotgun very well too. Anybody that shoots a shotgun well is going to shoot a rifle significantly better. Plus you get all of the benefits that rifles provide over shotguns. It isn't the 90s anymore. Technology has changed. Why limit yourself when better options are so readily available? Who is limiting themselves? It's a tool that works and has worked longer than both of us have been around. Just because you have this fantasy about mowing down hordes of burglars in your foyer with your AR does not mean the shotgun is inadequate. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 10:38:14 AM EST
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just don't see any valid reason to choose a shotgun over a carbine. (assuming you can own both, laws, etc) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Meh. My HD weapon is an M&P9. Either a shotgun or a carbine would be an upgrade. I just don't see any valid reason to choose a shotgun over a carbine. (assuming you can own both, laws, etc) I don't think it much matters carbine vs shotgun for HD. Where it really makes a difference is when the range might exceed 25 yards, like for a ranch gun. The only real downside to the shotgun for HD IMO is related to user caused malfunctions, shortstroking a pump or jamming up the feed mechanism while reloading. Recoil might be an issue for some. But many own and are familiar with shotguns. They were the standard and recommended HD weapon for decades. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 10:38:30 AM EST
[#7]
#4 Buckshot in a Vepr 12.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 10:41:30 AM EST
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Why not an automatic shotty? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Depending on the laws in your area a shotgun maybe your best option. When guns using standard size detachable mags aren't an option a pump action is likely your most viable alternative. Why not an automatic shotty? I've got an old Enfield Jungle Carbine. 10 rounds of rifle ammo, very fast cycling, loads on stripper clips or individually. Superior to a pump shotgun in every way, including size/weight, recoil, accuracy, terminal ballistics, speed, reloading, capacity, etc. You could also choose a lever action Winchester (or repro) of some variety, another bolt gun, or a semi with a fixed mag and stripper or clip feed (SKS, Garand, etc). All would be superior to a pump shotgun. A reliable semi shotgun would close the gap a bit, but only until the first reload. If you were allowed to have detachable mags, even 10-rounders (e.g. Mini-14), then the rifle is still better. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 10:42:25 AM EST
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No 2 turkey load If that won't stop the bad guy there's not much else to use. I just want to make sure we didn't miss this one... Because there's a LOT "else to use." |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 10:42:55 AM EST
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who is limiting themselves? Anyone willingly choosing a shotgun over an autoloading rifle for defense against human attackers is limiting themselves. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 10:44:25 AM EST
[#11]
I'm disappointed to see such little love for double-ought. Back when we were prepping for Rodney King round 2 (federal), I picked up a case of 2-3/4" 00-buck, and handed it out to everyone standing guard in the area with a 12 ga. While everyone wore their own pistols as back up, the plan was to use shotguns as a primary weapon. That way once the riots are over, if the "victims" or LE decided to prosecute any of us, they would be hard pressed to identify the shooter. You can't do ballistics on a shotgun, and the ammo is untraceable because all 10 or 12 or 20 of us not only used the same make and model of ammo, it all came from not only the same lot, but even the same box! "Who me? I only fired a warning shot into the air. The fatal shot must have come from one of those other 18 guys." Let's see - there a 90-95% chance that you were NOT the shooter? I think that's called "reasonable doubt." 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 10:47:00 AM EST
[#12]
On a shotgun anytime you stop shooting, keep stuffing shells. Don't wait for it to run out before relaoding.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 10:47:56 AM EST
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
On a shotgun anytime you stop shooting, keep stuffing shells. Don't wait for it to run out before relaoding. You start out almost out of ammo, and it's slow to reload. Plan and act accordingly. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 10:51:30 AM EST
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone willingly choosing a shotgun over an autoloading rifle for defense against human attackers is limiting themselves. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Who is limiting themselves? Anyone willingly choosing a shotgun over an autoloading rifle for defense against human attackers is limiting themselves. No, it's perfectly adequate for the job. Do you bring out the entire 36-drawer tool chest when you only need a 5/8th socket? The problem is, no one does a realistic threat assessment. They plan by watching zombie movies. Same goes for the guys that keep plate carriers by their bed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 10:57:09 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Who is limiting themselves? It's a tool that works and has worked longer than both of us have been around. Just because you have this fantasy about mowing down hordes of burglars in your foyer with your AR does not mean the shotgun is inadequate. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Is "I just like them and shoot them VERY well" not a valid reason? I shoot a shotgun very well too. Anybody that shoots a shotgun well is going to shoot a rifle significantly better. Plus you get all of the benefits that rifles provide over shotguns. It isn't the 90s anymore. Technology has changed. Why limit yourself when better options are so readily available? Who is limiting themselves? It's a tool that works and has worked longer than both of us have been around. Just because you have this fantasy about mowing down hordes of burglars in your foyer with your AR does not mean the shotgun is inadequate. Annnnd there comes the "fantasy" argument, just like clockwork. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:10:26 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It did deviate, but it also penetrated the same amount as the 00 buck did in that test (both went through 4 walls). Whether it has enough energy to do any damage after that is questionable, but they did both penetrate all of the walls he put in front of them. The general consensus seems to be that 00 buck and 556 penetrate similar amounts, while handguns penetrate a lot more. As far as terminal ballistics go, as long as you're using a quality 00 of #1 buck that is proven to penetrate deep enough, they'll work just fine. It's just literally every other aspect of shotguns that make them less than ideal. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I thought he found that 5.56 started tumbling through the sheetrock after a couple walls where the pistol and 00 kept going? Am I remembering that wrong? It did deviate, but it also penetrated the same amount as the 00 buck did in that test (both went through 4 walls). Whether it has enough energy to do any damage after that is questionable, but they did both penetrate all of the walls he put in front of them. The general consensus seems to be that 00 buck and 556 penetrate similar amounts, while handguns penetrate a lot more. As far as terminal ballistics go, as long as you're using a quality 00 of #1 buck that is proven to penetrate deep enough, they'll work just fine. It's just literally every other aspect of shotguns that make them less than ideal. Gotcha, I knew about the over penetration of pistol rounds, and thought the 00 was the same. But I think we agree on the matter. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:12:21 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Gotcha, I knew about the over penetration of pistol rounds, and thought the 00 was the same. But I think we agree on the matter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I thought he found that 5.56 started tumbling through the sheetrock after a couple walls where the pistol and 00 kept going? Am I remembering that wrong? It did deviate, but it also penetrated the same amount as the 00 buck did in that test (both went through 4 walls). Whether it has enough energy to do any damage after that is questionable, but they did both penetrate all of the walls he put in front of them. The general consensus seems to be that 00 buck and 556 penetrate similar amounts, while handguns penetrate a lot more. As far as terminal ballistics go, as long as you're using a quality 00 of #1 buck that is proven to penetrate deep enough, they'll work just fine. It's just literally every other aspect of shotguns that make them less than ideal. Gotcha, I knew about the over penetration of pistol rounds, and thought the 00 was the same. But I think we agree on the matter. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:14:18 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=91464 Behold the magnificence of my 1301 and despair, infidel! So as to the TAP comment I made earlier: http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=91465 Most of the pellets that you see missing the bad guy on that target came from the TAP round. The ones inside the bad guy came from the Fiocci buckshot, which performed far better than I had imagined it would. Shooting was done at 25 yards, and point of aim was the button on Jihad Johnny's shirt just above the AK. Big holes are from the slugs. The bulk 3gun slugs I bought shoot just a tad high at 25. I can live with that. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hush you. I'm picking on the noobs. http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=91464 Behold the magnificence of my 1301 and despair, infidel! So as to the TAP comment I made earlier: http://www.ar15.com/media/viewFile.html?i=91465 Most of the pellets that you see missing the bad guy on that target came from the TAP round. The ones inside the bad guy came from the Fiocci buckshot, which performed far better than I had imagined it would. Shooting was done at 25 yards, and point of aim was the button on Jihad Johnny's shirt just above the AK. Big holes are from the slugs. The bulk 3gun slugs I bought shoot just a tad high at 25. I can live with that. So, TAP = yuck? Seems like a lot of little liabilities flying everywhere. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:15:32 AM EST
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, it's perfectly adequate for the job. Do you bring out the entire 36-drawer tool chest when you only need a 5/8th socket? The problem is, no one does a realistic threat assessment. They plan by watching zombie movies. Same goes for the guys that keep plate carriers by their bed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Who is limiting themselves? Anyone willingly choosing a shotgun over an autoloading rifle for defense against human attackers is limiting themselves. No, it's perfectly adequate for the job. Do you bring out the entire 36-drawer tool chest when you only need a 5/8th socket? The problem is, no one does a realistic threat assessment. They plan by watching zombie movies. Same goes for the guys that keep plate carriers by their bed. "Adequate" and "sub-optimal" are not mutually exclusive. And certainly not synonymous. If I have no idea what the repair job is going to entail, of course I'm going to bring the whole toolbox. Especially when "not having the right tool" entails me or my loved ones getting hurt. And if you know when, where, and how a fight is going to happen, you're an idiot if you find yourself in said fight. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:15:48 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Is "I just like them and shoot them VERY well" not a valid reason? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Meh. My HD weapon is an M&P9. Either a shotgun or a carbine would be an upgrade. I just don't see any valid reason to choose a shotgun over a carbine. (assuming you can own both, laws, etc) Is "I just like them and shoot them VERY well" not a valid reason? I like my 22/45 LITE and shoot it very well. Intentionally choosing an inferior weapon because you like it doesn't click in my brain. *shrug* |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:16:07 AM EST
[#21]
Federal Flite Control 00 Buck.
I would have gone 9 pellet, but the cases of 8 were on sale. I use the regular loads, not the low recoil. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:16:21 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Places that outlaw things like AR's seem more likely to place restrictions on semi auto shotguns as well. But if there aren't local laws restricting semi auto shotguns and you have a gun and ammo combination that works then it's probably a fine option. I'm partial to pump actions because they generally work well with any type of shell you want to fire and there usually aren't many laws that apply to manually operated guns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Depending on the laws in your area a shotgun maybe your best option. When guns using standard size detachable mags aren't an option a pump action is likely your most viable alternative. Why not an automatic shotty? Places that outlaw things like AR's seem more likely to place restrictions on semi auto shotguns as well. But if there aren't local laws restricting semi auto shotguns and you have a gun and ammo combination that works then it's probably a fine option. I'm partial to pump actions because they generally work well with any type of shell you want to fire and there usually aren't many laws that apply to manually operated guns. So you can't have ARs or auto shotguns where you live? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:17:23 AM EST
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The ones inside the bad guy came from the Fiocci buckshot, which performed far better than I had imagined it would. I use the cheap Fiocci stuff for shotgun matches... it actually patterns really, really well. Their cheap-o slugs are good too. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:17:37 AM EST
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I simply know exactly what I'm capable of with ALL my guns I'll admit. Outside of qualification, I don't shoot shotguns. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:19:46 AM EST
[#25]
Slugs.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:19:54 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I like my 22/45 LITE and shoot it very well. Intentionally choosing an inferior weapon because you like it doesn't click in my brain. *shrug* Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Meh. My HD weapon is an M&P9. Either a shotgun or a carbine would be an upgrade. I just don't see any valid reason to choose a shotgun over a carbine. (assuming you can own both, laws, etc) Is "I just like them and shoot them VERY well" not a valid reason? I like my 22/45 LITE and shoot it very well. Intentionally choosing an inferior weapon because you like it doesn't click in my brain. *shrug* Once again, it's not an inferior weapon. It's just a weapon you admit to not knowing how to use or practice with. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:20:47 AM EST
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'll admit. Outside of qualification, I don't shoot shotguns. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I simply know exactly what I'm capable of with ALL my guns I'll admit. Outside of qualification, I don't shoot shotguns. The whole reason I came up with the BSAT was because I was shooting a lot of CSAT for the Drill of the Week thread. It was mostly just out of fun but it is a repeatable standard with practical application for shotgun proficiency. And it's just fun. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:20:53 AM EST
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I just want to make sure we didn't miss this one... Because there's a LOT "else to use." Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
No 2 turkey load If that won't stop the bad guy there's not much else to use. I just want to make sure we didn't miss this one... Because there's a LOT "else to use." 
Sure you could use a AR10 but this thread is shotguns |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:22:02 AM EST
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once again, it's not an inferior weapon. It's just a weapon you admit to not knowing how to use or practice with. No, it's inferior. Not inadequate, but inferior. And I shoot shotguns pretty well. Thousands and thousands of rounds through pretty much every kind of shotgun there is. NRA LE instructor course, cop stuff, training stuff, match stuff... I wager I've shot more shotgun shells at stuff on the ground than most. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:22:33 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I don't think it much matters carbine vs shotgun for HD. Where it really makes a difference is when the range might exceed 25 yards, like for a ranch gun. The only real downside to the shotgun for HD IMO is related to user caused malfunctions, shortstroking a pump or jamming up the feed mechanism while reloading. Recoil might be an issue for some. But many own and are familiar with shotguns. They were the standard and recommended HD weapon for decades. My biggest issue is the severely limited capacity. Most people claim they don't carry a 1911 because "boolets". Why choose a shotgun that's slower to fire and carries 1/4th the ammo of an AR? 7 round capacity in a 870.... 30 round capacity in an AR. I get the whole "been doing it for decades thing". I just don't buy that as a valid reason to keep doing it. I'm one of those "most effective tools for the job" kind of dudes. I've yet to hear a valid argument (aside from laws, which I understand) that the shotgun is in any way a better tool for the job when compared to an AR. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:24:30 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
No, it's perfectly adequate for the job. adequate [ad-i-kwit] 2. barely sufficient or suitable: Agreed. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:24:59 AM EST
[#32]
Brenneke special forces short magnum
Hexolit 32 D dupleks |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:25:07 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once again, it's not an inferior weapon. It's just a weapon you admit to not knowing how to use or practice with. What does it do better than an AR? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:26:22 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My biggest issue is the severely limited capacity. Most people claim they don't carry a 1911 because "boolets". Why choose a shotgun that's slower to fire and carries 1/4th the ammo of an AR? 7 round capacity in a 870.... 30 round capacity in an AR. I get the whole "been doing it for decades thing". I just don't buy that as a valid reason to keep doing it. I'm one of those "most effective tools for the job" kind of dudes. I've yet to hear a valid argument (aside from laws, which I understand) that the shotgun is in any way a better tool for the job when compared to an AR. I'm fine with a 1911. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:26:24 AM EST
[#35]
My primary in the house defense weapon in an 870 loaded with #1 buckshot when I can find it, 00 when I can't. It will get the job done if ever needed at down the hallway distances.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:26:48 AM EST
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once again, it's not an inferior weapon. It's just a weapon you admit to not knowing how to use or practice with. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Meh. My HD weapon is an M&P9. Either a shotgun or a carbine would be an upgrade. I just don't see any valid reason to choose a shotgun over a carbine. (assuming you can own both, laws, etc) Is "I just like them and shoot them VERY well" not a valid reason? I like my 22/45 LITE and shoot it very well. Intentionally choosing an inferior weapon because you like it doesn't click in my brain. *shrug* Once again, it's not an inferior weapon. It's just a weapon you admit to not knowing how to use or practice with. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:28:52 AM EST
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
My biggest issue is the severely limited capacity. Most people claim they don't carry a 1911 because "boolets". Why choose a shotgun that's slower to fire and carries 1/4th the ammo of an AR? 7 round capacity in a 870.... 30 round capacity in an AR. I get the whole "been doing it for decades thing". I just don't buy that as a valid reason to keep doing it. I'm one of those "most effective tools for the job" kind of dudes. I've yet to hear a valid argument (aside from laws, which I understand) that the shotgun is in any way a better tool for the job when compared to an AR. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I don't think it much matters carbine vs shotgun for HD. Where it really makes a difference is when the range might exceed 25 yards, like for a ranch gun. The only real downside to the shotgun for HD IMO is related to user caused malfunctions, shortstroking a pump or jamming up the feed mechanism while reloading. Recoil might be an issue for some. But many own and are familiar with shotguns. They were the standard and recommended HD weapon for decades. My biggest issue is the severely limited capacity. Most people claim they don't carry a 1911 because "boolets". Why choose a shotgun that's slower to fire and carries 1/4th the ammo of an AR? 7 round capacity in a 870.... 30 round capacity in an AR. I get the whole "been doing it for decades thing". I just don't buy that as a valid reason to keep doing it. I'm one of those "most effective tools for the job" kind of dudes. I've yet to hear a valid argument (aside from laws, which I understand) that the shotgun is in any way a better tool for the job when compared to an AR. Slugs do massive damage quickly without overpenatration. 556? Not sure id be comfortable with rifle rounds for HD in an urban/suburban setting.... the houses are pretty close together here.... |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:28:57 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Once again, it's not an inferior weapon. It's just a weapon you admit to not knowing how to use or practice with. Miniscule capacity, slow reloads, slow follow ups, stiff recoil, hard to suppress, not as precise, etc. Nope, definitely not an inferior weapon.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:29:16 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'm fine with a 1911. I'm sure you are, hence why I said most. I don't see the shotgun doing anything better than the AR. Just like a 1911 does nothing better than a Glock or a m&p. In both cases, people choose a weapon which is proven to be a less effective fighting tool. *shrug* Usually, that's when emotions come into play, and discussions devolve. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:30:27 AM EST
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Anyone willingly choosing a shotgun over an autoloading rifle for defense against human attackers is limiting themselves. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Who is limiting themselves? Anyone willingly choosing a shotgun over an autoloading rifle for defense against human attackers is limiting themselves. I disagree with that. While a shotgun does have limitations, it also has some advantages. My primary bedroom longarm is a 12 gauge (and I own several AR's FYI ), and its loaded with Federal #1 buck. Why? I want my first round on target to be as devastating as possible. And ballastically I think its going to be VERY hard to argue that a single 5.56 round is more likely to drop an asshole compared to a single shell of 15 #1 buck pellets. The AR's advantage is in ammo capacity, range, and rate of fire. For the type of home defense situations I think are likely in my case ( I live in a small city with a low crime rate, and home invasion robberies with large number of attackers is pretty much unheard of), ammo capacity and range are not an issue. And while the AR still has the rate of fire advantage, I'm making that trade off in the belief that my first round out of the shotgun is more likely to drop an asshole. Now, if you talk about different scenario's, say LA style riots, or Katrina, or living out in the country, or in a neighborhood that often has home invasions carried out by large groups of people, then the AR would be preferred. But for me, I don't feel undergunned using the 12 gauge as my first line defense. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:30:58 AM EST
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Slugs do massive damage quickly. 556? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I've yet to hear a valid argument (aside from laws, which I understand) that the shotgun is in any way a better tool for the job when compared to an AR. Slugs do massive damage quickly. 556? 556 does plenty of damage. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:30:59 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Miniscule capacity, slow reloads, slow follow ups, stiff recoil, hard to suppress, not as precise, etc. Nope, definitely not an inferior weapon. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Once again, it's not an inferior weapon. It's just a weapon you admit to not knowing how to use or practice with. Miniscule capacity, slow reloads, slow follow ups, stiff recoil, hard to suppress, not as precise, etc. Nope, definitely not an inferior weapon. None of which is actually true or even needed. But, carry on.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:31:46 AM EST
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I disagree with that. While a shotgun does have limitations, it also has some advantages. Such as...? |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:33:48 AM EST
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Such as...? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I disagree with that. While a shotgun does have limitations, it also has some advantages. Such as...? you need to keep reading the rest of my post
And ballastically I think its going to be VERY hard to argue that a single 5.56 round is more likely to drop an asshole compared to a single shell of 15 #1 buck pellets. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:34:05 AM EST
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I shoot a shotgun very well too. Anybody that shoots a shotgun well is going to shoot a rifle significantly better. Plus you get all of the benefits that rifles provide over shotguns. It isn't the 90s anymore. Technology has changed. Why limit yourself when better options are so readily available? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Meh. My HD weapon is an M&P9. Either a shotgun or a carbine would be an upgrade. I just don't see any valid reason to choose a shotgun over a carbine. (assuming you can own both, laws, etc) Is "I just like them and shoot them VERY well" not a valid reason? I shoot a shotgun very well too. Anybody that shoots a shotgun well is going to shoot a rifle significantly better. Plus you get all of the benefits that rifles provide over shotguns. It isn't the 90s anymore. Technology has changed. Why limit yourself when better options are so readily available? Not necessarily. If you can point a broomstick at something you can use a shotgun just fine. Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:34:24 AM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
And ballastically I think its going to be VERY hard to argue that a single 5.56 round is more likely to drop an asshole compared to a single shell of 15 #1 buck pellets. If you want to compare things in single shot ballistics, then we have now moved outside a home defense scenario. Nothing "drops assholes in one shot", and I wouldn't want to bet on it, even if had a high likelihood of doing so. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:36:13 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, TAP = yuck? Seems like a lot of little liabilities flying everywhere. For my 1301, at least. For comparison, this is what I was expecting: 
That's one of the reasons I was surprised. The TAP threw pellets all over, but the cheap Fiocci buckshot kept almost all the pellets on at 25 yards. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:37:16 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I use the cheap Fiocci stuff for shotgun matches... it actually patterns really, really well. Their cheap-o slugs are good too. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
The ones inside the bad guy came from the Fiocci buckshot, which performed far better than I had imagined it would. I use the cheap Fiocci stuff for shotgun matches... it actually patterns really, really well. Their cheap-o slugs are good too. And, at least from what I've fired so far, they seem to offer a bit less recoil on top of all that. Consider me a Fiocci convert. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:38:41 AM EST
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you want to compare things in single shot ballistics, then we have now moved outside a home defense scenario. Nothing "drops assholes in one shot", and I wouldn't want to bet on it, even if had a high likelihood of doing so. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
And ballastically I think its going to be VERY hard to argue that a single 5.56 round is more likely to drop an asshole compared to a single shell of 15 #1 buck pellets. If you want to compare things in single shot ballistics, then we have now moved outside a home defense scenario. Nothing "drops assholes in one shot", and I wouldn't want to bet on it, even if had a high likelihood of doing so. You're right in that there's no guarantee that one shot from ANYTHING is 100% going to put an asshole down. But in my house, I want to use a tool that's going to give me the highest odds of one shot dropping an idiot. I feel a 12 gauge with the right ammo is that tool. I also practice getting off follow up shots off as quick as possible. |
|
|
|
Posted: 8/29/2016 11:38:44 AM EST
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sure you could use a AR10 but this thread is shotguns Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
No 2 turkey load If that won't stop the bad guy there's not much else to use. I just want to make sure we didn't miss this one... Because there's a LOT "else to use."
Sure you could use a AR10 but this thread is shotguns #2 shot is .15dia and appx. five grains. Five. You can stop that with sheet metal. Just because it recoils a lot doesn't mean it's effective at stopping an attacker. |
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
