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Posted: 12/28/2014 9:55:21 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL, thats like saying ill still use cocaine because it was Legal in the 1800's.... jeez you guys still ranting over this ? just Pay the Man his $200 bucks and have a nice Stamp that says your ''allowed'' to use your shoulder fired less then 16'' barrel rifle. i just picked up a suppressor yesterday... yup, payed the man his $200... no big deal. most you guys take the old ladys out on saturday night and think nothing of eating $200 bucks then dumping it in the toilet the next morning. a SBR will be there the rest of your life. 
the more i read your posts, the more i think you might be one of the guys writing letters to the ATF asking "is it REALLY ok to shoulder my sig brace.? I mean, are you SURE its ok?" In any case, there are many places where people cannot get a SBR. the sig brace was the answer for those people. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:05:01 AM EDT
[#2]
I'd think someone would just use it in the manner they wished and don't say anything...............why continue to prod them and ask the same question?
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:07:37 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
the more i read your posts, the more i think you might be one of the guys writing letters to the ATF asking "is it REALLY ok to shoulder my sig brace.? I mean, are you SURE its ok?" In any case, there are many places where people cannot get a SBR. the sig brace was the answer for those people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
LOL, thats like saying ill still use cocaine because it was Legal in the 1800's.... jeez you guys still ranting over this ? just Pay the Man his $200 bucks and have a nice Stamp that says your ''allowed'' to use your shoulder fired less then 16'' barrel rifle. i just picked up a suppressor yesterday... yup, payed the man his $200... no big deal. most you guys take the old ladys out on saturday night and think nothing of eating $200 bucks then dumping it in the toilet the next morning. a SBR will be there the rest of your life.
the more i read your posts, the more i think you might be one of the guys writing letters to the ATF asking "is it REALLY ok to shoulder my sig brace.? I mean, are you SURE its ok?" In any case, there are many places where people cannot get a SBR. the sig brace was the answer for those people. Agreed with your assessment. These are great in Ohio where we only have a CHL. 
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:11:52 AM EDT
[#4]
No, im not a letter writer. that pisses me off too. Yes, i will agree , the non NFA states benefit from this product.
and thats totally cool. but the rest could and should just go NFA and be done with it. you can buy AR's for 500 bucks right now, and another 200 isnt going to break ones back. this isnt the first time ATF has switched and wont be the last. i dont want to spend 10 - 20 grand in court fighting with them over a piece of rubber. thats for sure. Quote HistoryQuoted:
the more i read your posts, the more i think you might be one of the guys writing letters to the ATF asking "is it REALLY ok to shoulder my sig brace.? I mean, are you SURE its ok?" In any case, there are many places where people cannot get a SBR. the sig brace was the answer for those people. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
LOL, thats like saying ill still use cocaine because it was Legal in the 1800's.... jeez you guys still ranting over this ? just Pay the Man his $200 bucks and have a nice Stamp that says your ''allowed'' to use your shoulder fired less then 16'' barrel rifle. i just picked up a suppressor yesterday... yup, payed the man his $200... no big deal. most you guys take the old ladys out on saturday night and think nothing of eating $200 bucks then dumping it in the toilet the next morning. a SBR will be there the rest of your life.
the more i read your posts, the more i think you might be one of the guys writing letters to the ATF asking "is it REALLY ok to shoulder my sig brace.? I mean, are you SURE its ok?" In any case, there are many places where people cannot get a SBR. the sig brace was the answer for those people. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:21:28 AM EDT
[#5]
I swear the vocal anti SB/pro stamp people are the Zumbos of the new millennium. Go troll on the price fixer's forum. I don't think they've started a thread on this yet and I'm sure they'll appreciate your valuable input.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:22:47 AM EDT
[#6]
down the road you will get the range clowns that will always point out to you... " you cant do that, you cant shoulder that'' etc
i came from a ban state, and the stuff i heard was borderline insane.... you cant have that, you cant touch that, on and on. i was even told once that if you live in a non NFA MG state, even if you go to a shoot say like Knob Creek you can be arrested for shooting a machinegun... that was a doozy...LOL, WTF ?... so instead of fighting with it, i moved on to where its Legal to shoot machineguns or whatever. and that was that. i Refuse to live and pay taxes and be Told what i can or cannot own in a state. i dont care if the old ladys family lives near by or i may lose some money when selling the house. my Gun Owning Freedom trumps all that bullshit. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:26:06 AM EDT
[#7]
I think a lot of people are reading way too much into this. Using a Sig brace as a shoulder stock will be enforced by ATF as vigorously as they enforce 922r.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:28:14 AM EDT
[#8]
id agree with that also... lets drop it.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think a lot of people are reading way too much into this. Using a Sig brace as a shoulder stock will be enforced by ATF as vigorously as they enforce 922r. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:31:11 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: id agree with that also... lets drop it. Quote HistoryQuoted: id agree with that also... lets drop it. Quoted: I think a lot of people are reading way too much into this. Using a Sig brace as a shoulder stock will be enforced by ATF as vigorously as they enforce 922r. That's impossible. People need to keep poking the nest to see what they can stir up. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:36:39 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's impossible. People need to keep poking the nest to see what they can stir up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
id agree with that also... lets drop it. Quoted:
I think a lot of people are reading way too much into this. Using a Sig brace as a shoulder stock will be enforced by ATF as vigorously as they enforce 922r. That's impossible. People need to keep poking the nest to see what they can stir up. IMO, I don't think that's the real issue. Folks shoot all the time without others around. What about when you have used it to protect yourself and you come under legal scrutiny ? |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:49:46 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: IMO, I don't think that's the real issue. Folks shoot all the time without others around. What about when you have used it to protect yourself and you come under legal scrutiny ? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: id agree with that also... lets drop it. Quoted: I think a lot of people are reading way too much into this. Using a Sig brace as a shoulder stock will be enforced by ATF as vigorously as they enforce 922r. That's impossible. People need to keep poking the nest to see what they can stir up. IMO, I don't think that's the real issue. Folks shoot all the time without others around. What about when you have used it to protect yourself and you come under legal scrutiny ? If you shot someone, your going to be answering a lot of questions about what happened. Whether you shouldered the pistol or not is probably going to be the last on the list. Plus, you shouldn't be answering anything until you have spoken with a lawyer. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:55:06 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
If you shot someone, your going to be answering a lot of questions about what happened. Whether you shouldered the pistol or not is probably going to be the last on the list. Plus, you shouldn't be answering anything until you have spoken with a lawyer. I agree with everything you said, but how much is the bolded going to cost you in the end ? Nothing consequential ?!?!?!?! I'll need to see more proof of that before I believe it. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:05:28 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes you can......................................................................I think?  Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
....................... 
But you can have a sig brace on it.
Yes you can......................................................................I think? Can you have a Sig Brace on it? The brace was designed and intended to be put on a pistol to aid in firing it one handed. The "firearm" with the VFG is neither a pistol nor is it intended to be fired one handed. So...? |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:05:57 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Will SigSauer reply to the letter in some fashion, address our concerns? Or will they take the tack that, "It was never designed to be shouldered in the first place." Without the wink and nod at the end, anymore. Anyone can tell the SBX was designed to be more rigid. Will they now just say, well you bought it, deal with it, and just continue as before? Why would SIG write the BATFE for clarification on letters about (1) other products (the other brace) and (2) regarding consumer intent to misuse their product in a manner it was not designed for? Besides, SIG's letter from the BATFE technical branch reference the SB-15 only applies to SIG - not to anyone else that bought a SB-15. The other letters only apply to the person (or business) they are addressed to. BATFE technical branch opinion letters only apply to the addressee - not to anyone else. It would be amusing (with the right judge) to see BATFE try to defend that position in court and say "Yes, Your Honor, in Joe Blow's case his misuse of the SB-15 to shoulder fire his AR pistol constitutes making an untaxed / unregistered firearm (SBR) because we sent him a letter that said so - but in his next door neighbor Tommy Tunes' case it doesn't, because we told him the same act didn't so constitute making an untaxed / unregistered firearm (SBR)." Amusing, with an opportunity to lose big. Too many judges just swallow whatever shit the "firearms experts"* at BATFE tell them. *Untrained, unqualified "experts" that make it up as they go along. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:06:52 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if the brace becomes truly illegal to shoulder, and many here are saying "don't care, gonna do it any way", at that point honestly why don't we all just say fuck it, and go ahead and build full-on unregistered SBRs? I mean if you're pretty sure that you'll never be caught or prosecuted with a brace, and you're willing to admit that publicly, what's the difference? He's right you know.jpg |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:08:33 AM EDT
[#16]
Pay $200.00 for permission to drink your tea (lol, sounds dramatic!). However you color it, the public at large does not benefit from any tangible service from this undue tax. A "For Profit" Gov't entity vulturizing it's own populace.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:08:35 AM EDT
[#17]
I will probably the only one but I'm actually glad the SIG Brace is dead. All it did was taint everything it touched with it's hideous rubber vagina flaps.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:09:06 AM EDT
[#18]
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:13:09 AM EDT
[#19]
Second take on the subject here. I gather that if your initial intent is to skirt the law and make an SBR sans tax stamp, then yes, you're not allowed to shoulder the brace. But if your initial intent was to manufacture a pistol and you shoulder it, then you're just misusing a pistol. Stupid NFA.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:14:03 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryGuess we both read this and posted around the same time. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:14:37 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL, thats like saying ill still use cocaine because it was Legal in the 1800's.... jeez you guys still ranting over this ? just Pay the Man his $200 bucks and have a nice Stamp that says your ''allowed'' to use your shoulder fired less then 16'' barrel rifle. i just picked up a suppressor yesterday... yup, payed the man his $200... no big deal. most you guys take the old ladys out on saturday night and think nothing of eating $200 bucks then dumping it in the toilet the next morning. a SBR will be there the rest of your life.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL, thats like saying ill still use cocaine because it was Legal in the 1800's.... jeez you guys still ranting over this ? just Pay the Man his $200 bucks and have a nice Stamp that says your ''allowed'' to use your shoulder fired less then 16'' barrel rifle. i just picked up a suppressor yesterday... yup, payed the man his $200... no big deal. most you guys take the old ladys out on saturday night and think nothing of eating $200 bucks then dumping it in the toilet the next morning. a SBR will be there the rest of your life.
Quoted:
i will continue to use my brace in the way it suits my personal reason for legally purchasing it. You have no concept of freedom. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:17:44 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: it's legal to have a loaded handgun "secured in a compartment" in your car in Virginia, in all jusrisdictions, but some counties/cities/towns in VA prohibit loaded rifles. Here's another question, can I get a cheek weld on a foam covered buffer tube (think Phase 5) or is that considered shouldering as well? Cause honestly I could fire it just as well that way, AND it's easier to store. I'll freaking sell the SBX and the KAKA "Super tube" with it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Get the stamp and stop being a cheapass. Honestly the only reason the SPB should even be considered is if your state does not allow loaded long guns in a vehicle but pistols are kosher. it's legal to have a loaded handgun "secured in a compartment" in your car in Virginia, in all jusrisdictions, but some counties/cities/towns in VA prohibit loaded rifles. Here's another question, can I get a cheek weld on a foam covered buffer tube (think Phase 5) or is that considered shouldering as well? Cause honestly I could fire it just as well that way, AND it's easier to store. I'll freaking sell the SBX and the KAKA "Super tube" with it. Or, if you are so worried that you'll nee a rifle for a long-range, extended gunfight with multiple assaliants, keep a couple of extra magazines for your pistol and load your rifle when you have to break it out (the chances of a Gary McFadden incident are extremely rare and he didn't load the AC-556 unti the incident began). Understand how deterrence really works. Papa Zoot and Too Loose had guns and amino and knives in their truck with them. In Gary's truck were a Remington Nylon 66.22 rifle (for plinking, and never touched during the incident), a 9mm HK VP70Z pistol, and the AC556 with enough amino for perhaps tour full magazines. None were loaded at the start. The pistol was loaded and placed in the console during the chase, and the rifle was at that point loaded and placed conspicuously on the dashboard by Gary in hopes that it would deter file pursuit. It did not. And as to keeping an NFA firearm in your car for self defence? Asked what he thinks would have happened if he'd shot Hamilton with a Remington 870 Wingmaster instead, Fadden replies with certainty, "I would have gone home that night. I've told dozens of people since, 'Do not use a Class III weapon for personal defense."' |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:22:48 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That's impossible. People need to keep poking the nest to see what they can stir up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
id agree with that also... lets drop it. Quoted:
I think a lot of people are reading way too much into this. Using a Sig brace as a shoulder stock will be enforced by ATF as vigorously as they enforce 922r. That's impossible. People need to keep poking the nest to see what they can stir up. I still think it was someone who wants to torpedo Sig Braces |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:26:04 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bro, do u even whiskey rebellion? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That just stuns me.....that the weight of Federal LE might be brought down on someone for what is in essence an avoidance of a tax. It really just shameful that our government has gotten to this point. ...rs? Bro, do u even whiskey rebellion? One has to ask what people think the "weight of Federal L(aw)E(nforcement)" is for? It's for enforcing Federal laws. And many Federal laws are based on taxes. Eric Gardner was arrested by the NYPD because he was a habitual tax law violator (selling individual black market untaxed - or stolen - cigarettes). Which is one of the things what makes de Blasio such a vicious hypocrite - the NYPD is the primary agency that enforces his (and the rest of the city councls') Progressive Communist agenda. Governments enforce law through violence or the promise / threat of violence, not through unicorns farting Skittles. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:28:16 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
IMO, I don't think that's the real issue. Folks shoot all the time without others around. What about when you have used it to protect yourself and you come under legal scrutiny ? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
id agree with that also... lets drop it. Quoted:
I think a lot of people are reading way too much into this. Using a Sig brace as a shoulder stock will be enforced by ATF as vigorously as they enforce 922r. That's impossible. People need to keep poking the nest to see what they can stir up. IMO, I don't think that's the real issue. Folks shoot all the time without others around. What about when you have used it to protect yourself and you come under legal scrutiny ? The feds are not going to be swooping in on every local self defense shooting incident. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:32:51 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
LOL, thats like saying ill still use cocaine because it was Legal in the 1800's.... jeez you guys still ranting over this ? just Pay the Man his $200 bucks and have a nice Stamp that says your ''allowed'' to use your shoulder fired less then 16'' barrel rifle. i just picked up a suppressor yesterday... You so realize that not all states allow SBR's right? Shit, some don't allow suppressors either, this may be a little much for you you take in all at once, I know.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:34:03 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I will probably the only one but I'm actually glad the SIG Brace is dead. All it did was taint everything it touched with it's hideous rubber vagina flaps. No one cares what you think, retread. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:43:29 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: With a couple dollars spent by the victim, I find it hard to believe the ATF could win any court case concerning the sig brace. The first half of reality is that BATFE sends a "firearms expert" to testify - and because it's a Federal government "firearms expert" (from the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives Firearms Technical Branch), that "firearms expert's" spewings are absolute. Never mind that the "firearms expert" is untrained and not a "firearms expert" by either training, education or experience - that's their BATFE Firearms Technical Branch job title. And the other half of reality is that Federal judges control what is resented as evidence in criminal cases, so (in the majority of cases) the jury sees and hears only what the BATFE tells the AUSA to tell the judge to allow - reference the law, technical evidence, etc. While the defendant can't afford to pay his attorneys any more as the AUSA buries them in motions, etc. and takes a plea bargain. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:44:49 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: ATF gets to write it's own rules and enforce them….then re-write them at will. Imagine if ANY other law enforcement agency was allowed to do that. Apparently you are unfamilar with the majority of Federal agencies. EPA, Corps of Engineers, etc. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:55:16 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But it does pretty follow suit with the princelaw.com blog. When you read 'the letter' it has a lot more to do with converting a rifle to a pistol & the intent to end up with an SBR than it does with anything else. I think this thing is whole lot more 'sky is falling' than a major shift in position by the ATF. We all know the sig brace isn't a shoulder stock & wasn't intended to be. I don't think anyone is/was trying to 'pull one over' on the .gov. Like some others though, I'm surprised at how many 'freedom loving gun owners' are so willing to sign on .govs dotted line... 
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Your a 13ner so they mat act like they didn't see this. this looks like it solves the misunderstanding. Being a 13er has nothing to do it. The author of that article is neither a professional lawyer, nor is he a member of the ATF and can speak for them. That article is the author's interpretation of the ATF's intent regarding intent. As far as I'm concerned, the author is about as trust worthy and accurate as anyone posting on this thread. But it does pretty follow suit with the princelaw.com blog. When you read 'the letter' it has a lot more to do with converting a rifle to a pistol & the intent to end up with an SBR than it does with anything else. I think this thing is whole lot more 'sky is falling' than a major shift in position by the ATF. We all know the sig brace isn't a shoulder stock & wasn't intended to be. I don't think anyone is/was trying to 'pull one over' on the .gov. Like some others though, I'm surprised at how many 'freedom loving gun owners' are so willing to sign on .govs dotted line...
I dont see where you come up with the part in red at all. Prince Law Blog is pointing out how this is unenforceable and capricious, and how the ATF's position in the recent letter(s) turns anyone shooting an AR pistol with a bare buffer tube is really shooting an SBR. The author of that article states that intent is all that matters and if you never intended to shoulder it while firing you're fine. My issue with the article is that it (like the ATF's recent letter) leaves open "Who gets to decide what my intent is/was?" The author consults with an "ATF agent" who tells him everything is fine, dont worry about it. I dont know the author, and I dont know his buddy, "Agent Snuffalupagus" who apparently only he can speak to.... That article is an opinion, and nothing more. Prince Law blog is stating facts about this particular incident. I do agree this is more of a sky is falling kind of thing, but not because of the article.... I think ATF is going to shoot itself in the foot with this and its other recent "interpretations" of the law, (IE Trusts not being a person) and its going to get smacked in a court of law. Bottom line is that agencies such as the ATF dont get to reinterpret the laws based on their mood or the color of the bosses tie on Wednesday morning. They have to follow the rules and laws just like everyone else, (F&F be damned). If anything, I'm seeing ALOT more irritation at the Fed Gov's doing what it wants from the local people.....this translates out to wanting to hold people accountable for their actions, and I sense a sea change coming.... But I'm just a muni cop in St Louis....what the fuck do I know.... |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:57:26 AM EDT
[#31]
i covered that already.
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You so realize that not all states allow SBR's right? Shit, some don't allow suppressors either, this may be a little much for you you take in all at once, I know. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
LOL, thats like saying ill still use cocaine because it was Legal in the 1800's.... jeez you guys still ranting over this ? just Pay the Man his $200 bucks and have a nice Stamp that says your ''allowed'' to use your shoulder fired less then 16'' barrel rifle. i just picked up a suppressor yesterday... You so realize that not all states allow SBR's right? Shit, some don't allow suppressors either, this may be a little much for you you take in all at once, I know. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:58:09 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if the brace becomes truly illegal to shoulder, and many here are saying "don't care, gonna do it any way", at that point honestly why don't we all just say fuck it, and go ahead and build full-on unregistered SBRs? I mean if you're pretty sure that you'll never be caught or prosecuted with a brace, and you're willing to admit that publicly, what's the difference? I dunno.... Maybe the fact that the ATF didnt publicly bless the shoulder firing of Sig Braced pistols and then change its mind vs never ever doing the same thing with unregistered SBR's...... |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 12:07:51 PM EDT
[#33]
....God, gun owners truly are there own worst enemy...
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Posted: 12/28/2014 12:07:56 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But it does pretty follow suit with the princelaw.com blog. When you read 'the letter' it has a lot more to do with converting a rifle to a pistol & the intent to end up with an SBR than it does with anything else. that is the way i am reading this. that is why i made the comment above about a purchased complete pistol with the brace as a pistol, vs an add on after the fact or adding to a "rifle" receiver. i suspect an easier legal argument could be made for a complete purchased pistol vs build as intent at manufacturer can easily be shown to be a pistol, not an SBR work around. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 12:14:28 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryArticle lays out the case in perfect detail....Maybe some of you retards should read it before posting, and perpetually spreading you bullshitshit information...NOTHING HAS CHANGED, IF YOU ARE NOT DUMB, LIKE THE RETARD WHO WROTE THIS LETTER. 
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Posted: 12/28/2014 12:23:52 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Article lays out the case in perfect detail....Maybe some of you retards should read it before posting, and perpetually spreading you bullshitshit information...NOTHING HAS CHANGED, IF YOU ARE NOT DUMB, LIKE THE RETARD WHO WROTE THIS LETTER. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Article lays out the case in perfect detail....Maybe some of you retards should read it before posting, and perpetually spreading you bullshitshit information...NOTHING HAS CHANGED, IF YOU ARE NOT DUMB, LIKE THE RETARD WHO WROTE THIS LETTER. Read the fucking thread. We already did the Foghorn Leghorn article. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 12:28:58 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes you can......................................................................I think? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
.......................
But you can have a sig brace on it.
Yes you can......................................................................I think? I "know what guy" that built one of them there 26 inch firearms That's what he meant to do, Build one of those 26 inch "firearm"s Yep 
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Posted: 12/28/2014 12:39:59 PM EDT
[#38]
My theory...
Use the fucking thing however you like. If I put my 1911 to my shoulder an SBR it does not become. If the ATF really, REALLY, wants these things gone they will come get them like they did with Akins Accelerators and the RPK MAC uppers... |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 12:52:42 PM EDT
[#39]
The whole SBR thing is just retarded anyway, I never could wrap my head around why putting a shoulder stock on something with a less than 16" barrel makes it all of a sudden illegal unless you register it with the NFA.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 1:01:25 PM EDT
[#40]
The brace is still perfectly legal, the ATF still holds that a pistol is a pistol is a pistol, even if you hold it to your shoulder.
The only caveat is INTENT, the letter suggests that building a SBR using the arm brace as a stock is the intent, this would mean the gun is intended to be an SBR and not a pistol. Dumb but the way things are at present. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 1:02:02 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Apparently you are unfamilar with the majority of Federal agencies. EPA, Corps of Engineers, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: ATF gets to write it's own rules and enforce them….then re-write them at will. Imagine if ANY other law enforcement agency was allowed to do that. Apparently you are unfamilar with the majority of Federal agencies. EPA, Corps of Engineers, etc. ... Be careful, be very fucking careful! You might find yourself in Ed's Pit for being "disrespectful" to .MIL/LEO You've been WARNED
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Posted: 12/28/2014 1:09:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The brace is still perfectly legal, the ATF still holds that a pistol is a pistol is a pistol, even if you hold it to your shoulder. The only caveat is INTENT, the letter suggests that building a SBR using the arm brace as a stock is the intent, this would mean the gun is intended to be an SBR and not a pistol. Dumb but the way things are at present. And the problem is, as others have pointed out, that the VAST majority of people who purchased the SIG arm brace, did so precisely because they intended to shoulder it. We all know this. Lots of people figured that it would be "okay" to surreptitiously do so, because of the original letter to SIG. But we all knew that almost everyone who bought one intended to shoulder it after they installed it - which I guess technically could mean that they were in fact "building" an unregistered SBR when they attached the SIG brace, because they were configuring a weapon so it could be fired from the shoulder, which "makes" it a rifle. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 1:17:20 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
... Be careful, be very fucking careful! You might find yourself in Ed's Pit for being "disrespectful" to .MIL/LEO You've been WARNED Quote HistoryQuoted:
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ATF gets to write it's own rules and enforce them….then re-write them at will. Imagine if ANY other law enforcement agency was allowed to do that. Apparently you are unfamilar with the majority of Federal agencies. EPA, Corps of Engineers, etc. ... Be careful, be very fucking careful! You might find yourself in Ed's Pit for being "disrespectful" to .MIL/LEO You've been WARNED lighten up francis |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 1:23:06 PM EDT
[#44]
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And the problem is, as others have pointed out, that the VAST majority of people who purchased the SIG arm brace, did so precisely because they intended to shoulder it. We all know this. Lots of people figured that it would be "okay" to surreptitiously do so, because of the original letter to SIG. But we all knew that almost everyone who bought one intended to shoulder it after they installed it - which I guess technically could mean that they were in fact "building" an unregistered SBR when they attached the SIG brace, because they were configuring a weapon so it could be fired from the shoulder, which "makes" it a rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The brace is still perfectly legal, the ATF still holds that a pistol is a pistol is a pistol, even if you hold it to your shoulder. The only caveat is INTENT, the letter suggests that building a SBR using the arm brace as a stock is the intent, this would mean the gun is intended to be an SBR and not a pistol. Dumb but the way things are at present. And the problem is, as others have pointed out, that the VAST majority of people who purchased the SIG arm brace, did so precisely because they intended to shoulder it. We all know this. Lots of people figured that it would be "okay" to surreptitiously do so, because of the original letter to SIG. But we all knew that almost everyone who bought one intended to shoulder it after they installed it - which I guess technically could mean that they were in fact "building" an unregistered SBR when they attached the SIG brace, because they were configuring a weapon so it could be fired from the shoulder, which "makes" it a rifle. Well lucky for me that I have lots of pictures on the internet with my ar pistol before I added the brace to help me shoot it one handed |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 1:31:47 PM EDT
[#45]
I would really like to read the original letter that was sent to ATF so I can see the exact question that was asked. Getting a summary of the question by someone who has not even seen the original question makes me have little faith in their answer.
I am talking about this: http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/12/foghorn/calm-pistol-brace-ruling-hasnt-changed/ |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:14:09 PM EDT
[#46]
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I already wrote one asking if a fleshlight in place of the buffer tube, fired while my dick is inside, results in a rifle or a pistol. I made sure to include lots of pictures. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hopefully someone will send a letter to the ATF asking for further clarification. No. Just no. Have you been reading the thread? Don't send letters to the tech branch. I already wrote one asking if a fleshlight in place of the buffer tube, fired while my dick is inside, results in a rifle or a pistol. I made sure to include lots of pictures. I wish you weren't kidding. That one I'd like to read their response. They legally have to respond. Might not be by choice.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:15:14 PM EDT
[#47]
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I was being sarcastic. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Hopefully someone will send a letter to the ATF asking for further clarification. No. Just no. Have you been reading the thread? Don't send letters to the tech branch. I was being sarcastic. Fair enough. My apologies. I didn't catch it. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:17:56 PM EDT
[#48]
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We are pretty much there already. There are a lot more unregistered SBRs shot in public than registered. 300 pages of SBR pictures here on arfcom and what one in ten are engraved, lol, opsec my ass. And why should they, the atf doesn't have the assets to enforce it. The atf has less assets available to it than the border control has for its mission. Over 10 years of shooting SBR'S in public, not once was I asked for my form 1's in the most populated region in the US. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So if the brace becomes truly illegal to shoulder, and many here are saying "don't care, gonna do it any way", at that point honestly why don't we all just say fuck it, and go ahead and build full-on unregistered SBRs? I mean if you're pretty sure that you'll never be caught or prosecuted with a brace, and you're willing to admit that publicly, what's the difference? We are pretty much there already. There are a lot more unregistered SBRs shot in public than registered. 300 pages of SBR pictures here on arfcom and what one in ten are engraved, lol, opsec my ass. And why should they, the atf doesn't have the assets to enforce it. The atf has less assets available to it than the border control has for its mission. Over 10 years of shooting SBR'S in public, not once was I asked for my form 1's in the most populated region in the US. I wouldn't say it's that high. Most people posting in the SBR photo thread would know what an SBR is and the requirements for it. I own seven SBR's, none have my info engraved on them. So my guns aren't correct? |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:20:11 PM EDT
[#49]
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That's impossible. People need to keep poking the nest to see what they can stir up. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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id agree with that also... lets drop it. Quoted:
I think a lot of people are reading way too much into this. Using a Sig brace as a shoulder stock will be enforced by ATF as vigorously as they enforce 922r. That's impossible. People need to keep poking the nest to see what they can stir up. Poke..... Poke....... Poke........... 
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:34:54 PM EDT
[#50]
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No one cares what you think, retread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I will probably the only one but I'm actually glad the SIG Brace is dead. All it did was taint everything it touched with it's hideous rubber vagina flaps. No one cares what you think, retread. Quite literally, no one cares what you think as well. Every contribution to this site you make is personal attack and adds nothing to this site. Why even type out your bullshit? |
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