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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:35:44 PM EDT
[#1]
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Well lucky for me that I have lots of pictures on the internet with my ar pistol before I added the brace to help me shoot it one handed Quote HistoryQuoted:
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The brace is still perfectly legal, the ATF still holds that a pistol is a pistol is a pistol, even if you hold it to your shoulder. The only caveat is INTENT, the letter suggests that building a SBR using the arm brace as a stock is the intent, this would mean the gun is intended to be an SBR and not a pistol. Dumb but the way things are at present. And the problem is, as others have pointed out, that the VAST majority of people who purchased the SIG arm brace, did so precisely because they intended to shoulder it. We all know this. Lots of people figured that it would be "okay" to surreptitiously do so, because of the original letter to SIG. But we all knew that almost everyone who bought one intended to shoulder it after they installed it - which I guess technically could mean that they were in fact "building" an unregistered SBR when they attached the SIG brace, because they were configuring a weapon so it could be fired from the shoulder, which "makes" it a rifle. Well lucky for me that I have lots of pictures on the internet with my ar pistol before I added the brace to help me shoot it one handed That is a very good idea. 
If I had a SIG brace and used it for shooting while shouldered, I would make sure to post pictures of myself shooting it one-handed ("as designed") on Facebook or whereever else on the internet (and comment about how great this is, given the arthritis in my shoulder), and NOT have any pictures of me shooting it shouldered. Then I'd continue to shoot it shouldered as much as I wanted, and not worry about it. Cheap "insurance", and no poking the ATF. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 4:55:08 PM EDT
[#2]
Honestly I think this ------------> http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/12/foghorn/calm-pistol-brace-ruling-hasnt-changed/ is the only thing I need to give me peace of mind. It makes total sense to me that the mouth breather that originally wrote the ATF that letter was telling them hey I am blatantly making an SBR and using this pistol stabalizer as a stock, give me your blessing. Of course the ATF is going to say that is not ok, but the rest of us that had the intent of manufacturing a pistol in the first place.. were in the clear no matter how we choose to wield it.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 5:07:38 PM EDT
[#3]
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Honestly I think this ------------> http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2014/12/foghorn/calm-pistol-brace-ruling-hasnt-changed/ is the only thing I need to give me peace of mind. It makes total sense to me that the mouth breather that originally wrote the ATF that letter was telling them hey I am blatantly making an SBR and using this pistol stabalizer as a stock, give me your blessing. Of course the ATF is going to say that is not ok, but the rest of us that had the intent of manufacturing a pistol in the first place.. were in the clear no matter how we choose to wield it. Except that ignores the letters from Shockwave and Black Aces that say the same thing. It is a position reversal that was brought about by ATF higherups for essentially letting "factory sbrs" out on the market as pistols. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 5:39:03 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And the problem is, as others have pointed out, that the VAST majority of people who purchased the SIG arm brace, did so precisely because they intended to shoulder it. We all know this. Lots of people figured that it would be "okay" to surreptitiously do so, because of the original letter to SIG. But we all knew that almost everyone who bought one intended to shoulder it after they installed it - which I guess technically could mean that they were in fact "building" an unregistered SBR when they attached the SIG brace, because they were configuring a weapon so it could be fired from the shoulder, which "makes" it a rifle. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The brace is still perfectly legal, the ATF still holds that a pistol is a pistol is a pistol, even if you hold it to your shoulder. The only caveat is INTENT, the letter suggests that building a SBR using the arm brace as a stock is the intent, this would mean the gun is intended to be an SBR and not a pistol. Dumb but the way things are at present. And the problem is, as others have pointed out, that the VAST majority of people who purchased the SIG arm brace, did so precisely because they intended to shoulder it. We all know this. Lots of people figured that it would be "okay" to surreptitiously do so, because of the original letter to SIG. But we all knew that almost everyone who bought one intended to shoulder it after they installed it - which I guess technically could mean that they were in fact "building" an unregistered SBR when they attached the SIG brace, because they were configuring a weapon so it could be fired from the shoulder, which "makes" it a rifle.  |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 5:40:49 PM EDT
[#5]
Buy a Sig AR Pistol with Brace.........
Pay for the Tax Stamp as a SBR...... Let the Hilarity Begin...........  |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 5:53:42 PM EDT
[#6]
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Buy a Sig AR Pistol with Brace......... Pay for the Tax Stamp as a SBR...... Let the Hilarity Begin........... I've already done this actually.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 6:44:05 PM EDT
[#7]
It will be so funny at the trial when one of these guys gets busted.
<ATF Atty> Sir, since you claim you used this device only as intended, can you show us how to put it on. The weapon has been checked safe by court security. <Busted Arfcomer> I don't know how!! 
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Posted: 12/28/2014 7:33:36 PM EDT
[#8]
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I dont see where you come up with the part in red at all. Prince Law Blog is pointing out how this is unenforceable and capricious, and how the ATF's position in the recent letter(s) turns anyone shooting an AR pistol with a bare buffer tube is really shooting an SBR. The author of that article states that intent is all that matters and if you never intended to shoulder it while firing you're fine. My issue with the article is that it (like the ATF's recent letter) leaves open "Who gets to decide what my intent is/was?" The author consults with an "ATF agent" who tells him everything is fine, dont worry about it. I dont know the author, and I dont know his buddy, "Agent Snuffalupagus" who apparently only he can speak to.... That article is an opinion, and nothing more. Prince Law blog is stating facts about this particular incident. I do agree this is more of a sky is falling kind of thing, but not because of the article.... I think ATF is going to shoot itself in the foot with this and its other recent "interpretations" of the law, (IE Trusts not being a person) and its going to get smacked in a court of law. Bottom line is that agencies such as the ATF dont get to reinterpret the laws based on their mood or the color of the bosses tie on Wednesday morning. They have to follow the rules and laws just like everyone else, (F&F be damned). If anything, I'm seeing ALOT more irritation at the Fed Gov's doing what it wants from the local people.....this translates out to wanting to hold people accountable for their actions, and I sense a sea change coming.... But I'm just a muni cop in St Louis....what the fuck do I know.... Quote HistoryQuoted:
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But it does pretty follow suit with the princelaw.com blog. When you read 'the letter' it has a lot more to do with converting a rifle to a pistol & the intent to end up with an SBR than it does with anything else. I think this thing is whole lot more 'sky is falling' than a major shift in position by the ATF. We all know the sig brace isn't a shoulder stock & wasn't intended to be. I don't think anyone is/was trying to 'pull one over' on the .gov. Like some others though, I'm surprised at how many 'freedom loving gun owners' are so willing to sign on .govs dotted line... 
I dont see where you come up with the part in red at all. Prince Law Blog is pointing out how this is unenforceable and capricious, and how the ATF's position in the recent letter(s) turns anyone shooting an AR pistol with a bare buffer tube is really shooting an SBR. The author of that article states that intent is all that matters and if you never intended to shoulder it while firing you're fine. My issue with the article is that it (like the ATF's recent letter) leaves open "Who gets to decide what my intent is/was?" The author consults with an "ATF agent" who tells him everything is fine, dont worry about it. I dont know the author, and I dont know his buddy, "Agent Snuffalupagus" who apparently only he can speak to.... That article is an opinion, and nothing more. Prince Law blog is stating facts about this particular incident. I do agree this is more of a sky is falling kind of thing, but not because of the article.... I think ATF is going to shoot itself in the foot with this and its other recent "interpretations" of the law, (IE Trusts not being a person) and its going to get smacked in a court of law. Bottom line is that agencies such as the ATF dont get to reinterpret the laws based on their mood or the color of the bosses tie on Wednesday morning. They have to follow the rules and laws just like everyone else, (F&F be damned). If anything, I'm seeing ALOT more irritation at the Fed Gov's doing what it wants from the local people.....this translates out to wanting to hold people accountable for their actions, and I sense a sea change coming.... But I'm just a muni cop in St Louis....what the fuck do I know.... I'm not going to disagree with you a bit, 'cept to say that the prince law blog is still just a lawyers interpretation of the facts. That's the problem in all this, there are no 'facts', just letters of opinion & interpretations of said letters. On top of that we get conflicting letters of opinion & further interpretations of the additional letters. I'm just a dumbass farmer that happened to raise a deputy..
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Posted: 12/28/2014 7:41:45 PM EDT
[#9]
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It will be so funny at the trial when one of these guys gets busted. <ATF Atty> Sir, since you claim you used this device only as intended, can you show us how to put it on. The weapon has been checked safe by court security. <Busted OCTer> I don't know how!! Fixed.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 9:01:20 PM EDT
[#10]
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Fixed. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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It will be so funny at the trial when one of these guys gets busted. <ATF Atty> Sir, since you claim you used this device only as intended, can you show us how to put it on. The weapon has been checked safe by court security. <Busted OCTer> I don't know how!! Fixed. Pfft. You didn't fix shit
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Posted: 12/28/2014 9:10:43 PM EDT
[#11]
So if holding a pistol to your shoulder "remakes", or "re-designs" is as a rifle, then using the exact same interpretation of the law, holding a pistol with two hands, redesigns or remakes it as an "AOW." No different than adding a vertical foregrip.
“Handgun” is defined under Federal law to mean, in part, a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand…. Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(29).
Under an implementing regulation of the National Firearms Act (NFA), 27 C.F.R. § 479.11, “pistol” is defined as: … a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s). The NFA further defines the term “any other weapon” (AOW) as: … any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition. 26 U.S.C. § 5845(e). ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. I think I need to write the ATF a letter asking for clarification on this two handed pistol shooting loophole all you people have been using to skirt the NFA. Goodbye this: 
Hello this: 
What's old will be new again. 
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Posted: 12/28/2014 9:16:22 PM EDT
[#12]
Isnt it pretty self explanatory?..........
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It will be so funny at the trial when one of these guys gets busted. <ATF Atty> Sir, since you claim you used this device only as intended, can you show us how to put it on. The weapon has been checked safe by court security. <Busted Arfcomer> I don't know how!! |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 9:20:19 PM EDT
[#13]
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FBATFE. I don't own a sig brace and probably never will but they can still suck it. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 9:22:13 PM EDT
[#14]
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Isnt it pretty self explanatory?.......... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Isnt it pretty self explanatory?.......... Quoted:
It will be so funny at the trial when one of these guys gets busted. <ATF Atty> Sir, since you claim you used this device only as intended, can you show us how to put it on. The weapon has been checked safe by court security. <Busted Arfcomer> I don't know how!! So is the NFA and the brace-boys don't seem to get it. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:03:31 PM EDT
[#15]
I just can't believe guys out there are still pushing this issue! Let. It be. Have fun.
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:20:40 PM EDT
[#16]
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No one cares what you think, retread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I will probably the only one but I'm actually glad the SIG Brace is dead. All it did was taint everything it touched with it's hideous rubber vagina flaps. No one cares what you think, retread. Chillax dude. No need to get hostile like you did when you brought beer to a shoot hosted by another Arfcommer, and someone else drank it all. Who brings beer to a gun shoot anyway? |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:40:13 PM EDT
[#17]
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So is the NFA and the brace-boys don't seem to get it. What exactly are they missing about it? 
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:41:41 PM EDT
[#18]
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Chillax dude. No need to get hostile like you did when you brought beer to a shoot hosted by another Arfcommer, and someone else drank it all. Who brings beer to a gun shoot anyway? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I will probably the only one but I'm actually glad the SIG Brace is dead. All it did was taint everything it touched with it's hideous rubber vagina flaps. No one cares what you think, retread. Chillax dude. No need to get hostile like you did when you brought beer to a shoot hosted by another Arfcommer, and someone else drank it all. Who brings beer to a gun shoot anyway? Seriously?? |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:42:47 PM EDT
[#19]
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What exactly are they missing about it? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So is the NFA and the brace-boys don't seem to get it. What exactly are they missing about it? The SBR part... They seem to think they are getting away with something. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:43:50 PM EDT
[#20]
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The SBR part... They seem to think they are getting away with something. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So is the NFA and the brace-boys don't seem to get it. What exactly are they missing about it? The SBR part... They seem to think they are getting away with something. You mean how a Sig Brace equipped pistol doesn't fit the definition of an SBR? |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:47:47 PM EDT
[#21]
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The SBR part... They seem to think they are getting away with something. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So is the NFA and the brace-boys don't seem to get it. What exactly are they missing about it? The SBR part... They seem to think they are getting away with something. What are they getting away with by owning a pistol? |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 10:48:32 PM EDT
[#22]
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The SBR part... They seem to think they are getting away with something. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So is the NFA and the brace-boys don't seem to get it. What exactly are they missing about it? The SBR part... They seem to think they are getting away with something. If you have both (sbr and pistol w/brace), what is it exactly you'd be trying to get away with? I'd love to hear it. ...No response? Figured so. Nooblets gonna noob. |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:11:20 PM EDT
[#23]
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Pfft. You didn't fix shit
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It will be so funny at the trial when one of these guys gets busted. <ATF Atty> Sir, since you claim you used this device only as intended, can you show us how to put it on. The weapon has been checked safe by court security. <Busted OCTer> I don't know how!! Fixed. Pfft. You didn't fix shit
Thank god you're just a wannabe pretend cop. You don't have what it takes to be a real member of a law enforcement agency. It takes a "Special"kind of person to make a statement like this one of yours. "It will be so funny at the trial when one of these guys gets busted". 
One of these days you're going to piss off the wrong beer drinker. Or maybe some other person you try to impress your authority on. You might just find that tiny little badge you masturbate over . Shoved right up your ass. Just a friendly reminder from someone that doesn't want to see you get hurt! |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:18:22 PM EDT
[#24]
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Seriously?? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I will probably the only one but I'm actually glad the SIG Brace is dead. All it did was taint everything it touched with it's hideous rubber vagina flaps. No one cares what you think, retread. Chillax dude. No need to get hostile like you did when you brought beer to a shoot hosted by another Arfcommer, and someone else drank it all. Who brings beer to a gun shoot anyway? Seriously?? Were they consumed while the subject was sitting in their car? Did any Security personnel report the issue to the police? |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:24:43 PM EDT
[#25]
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The SBR part... They seem to think they are getting away with something. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So is the NFA and the brace-boys don't seem to get it. What exactly are they missing about it? The SBR part... They seem to think they are getting away with something. 
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:39:09 PM EDT
[#26]
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Thank god you're just a wannabe pretend cop. You don't have what it takes to be a real member of a law enforcement agency. It takes a "Special"kind of person to make a statement like this one of yours. "It will be so funny at the trial when one of these guys gets busted".
One of these days you're going to piss off the wrong beer drinker. Or maybe some other person you try to impress your authority on. You might just find that tiny little badge you masturbate over . Shoved right up your ass. Just a friendly reminder from someone that doesn't want to see you get hurt! Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
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It will be so funny at the trial when one of these guys gets busted. <ATF Atty> Sir, since you claim you used this device only as intended, can you show us how to put it on. The weapon has been checked safe by court security. <Busted OCTer> I don't know how!! Fixed. Pfft. You didn't fix shit
Thank god you're just a wannabe pretend cop. You don't have what it takes to be a real member of a law enforcement agency. It takes a "Special"kind of person to make a statement like this one of yours. "It will be so funny at the trial when one of these guys gets busted".
One of these days you're going to piss off the wrong beer drinker. Or maybe some other person you try to impress your authority on. You might just find that tiny little badge you masturbate over . Shoved right up your ass. Just a friendly reminder from someone that doesn't want to see you get hurt! Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! You might be surprised to learn the biggest douchebags I encounter are on this site, lol. They funny, like you! eta: is wanmabe pretend cop like wannabe pretend SBR?? 
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:50:31 PM EDT
[#27]
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You might be surprised to learn the biggest douchebags I encounter are on this site, lol Quote HistoryQuoted:
Oh, the irony. You gonna answer my question, Squirt? |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:56:44 PM EDT
[#28]
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It will be so funny at the trial when one of these guys gets busted. <ATF Atty> Sir, since you claim you used this device only as intended, can you show us how to put it on. The weapon has been checked safe by court security. <Busted Arfcomer> I don't know how!! whats worse are the photos I see on this site showing the brace with no straps on it now how can you explain you even using the brace with no straps on it at all at least keep the straps on it thats what makes it a brace |
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:56:52 PM EDT
[#29]
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Oh, the irony. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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You might be surprised to learn the biggest douchebags I encounter are on this site, lol Oh, the irony.  
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Posted: 12/28/2014 11:59:16 PM EDT
[#30]
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Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! You might be surprised to learn the biggest douchebags I encounter are on this site, lol. They funny, like you! eta: is wanmabe pretend cop like wannabe pretend SBR??
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It will be so funny at the trial when one of these guys gets busted. <ATF Atty> Sir, since you claim you used this device only as intended, can you show us how to put it on. The weapon has been checked safe by court security. <Busted OCTer> I don't know how!! Fixed. Pfft. You didn't fix shit
Thank god you're just a wannabe pretend cop. You don't have what it takes to be a real member of a law enforcement agency. It takes a "Special"kind of person to make a statement like this one of yours. "It will be so funny at the trial when one of these guys gets busted".
One of these days you're going to piss off the wrong beer drinker. Or maybe some other person you try to impress your authority on. You might just find that tiny little badge you masturbate over . Shoved right up your ass. Just a friendly reminder from someone that doesn't want to see you get hurt! Badges? We don't need no stinking badges! You might be surprised to learn the biggest douchebags I encounter are on this site, lol. They funny, like you! eta: is wanmabe pretend cop like wannabe pretend SBR??
' As usual you seem to have nothing better to do than troll Arfcom and express your disdain for the membership. I hope that you are as miserable as it seems. Go away. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 12:05:58 AM EDT
[#31]
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You might be surprised to learn the biggest douchebags I encounter are on this site, lol Oh, the irony. No shit. Right? |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 12:13:44 AM EDT
[#32]
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So if holding a pistol to your shoulder "remakes", or "re-designs" is as a rifle, then using the exact same interpretation of the law, holding a pistol with two hands, redesigns or remakes it as an "AOW." No different than adding a vertical foregrip. I think I need to write the ATF a letter asking for clarification on this two handed pistol shooting loophole all you people have been using to skirt the NFA. Goodbye this: http://www.bradshawpistolacademy.net/images/lvickers.jpg Hello this: http://loadoutroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/id_pistol_m1911_700_06-250x181.jpg What's old will be new again. Quote HistoryQuoted:
So if holding a pistol to your shoulder "remakes", or "re-designs" is as a rifle, then using the exact same interpretation of the law, holding a pistol with two hands, redesigns or remakes it as an "AOW." No different than adding a vertical foregrip. “Handgun” is defined under Federal law to mean, in part, a firearm which has a short stock and is designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand…. Gun Control Act of 1968, 18 U.S.C. § 921(a)(29).
Under an implementing regulation of the National Firearms Act (NFA), 27 C.F.R. § 479.11, “pistol” is defined as: … a weapon originally designed, made, and intended to fire a projectile (bullet) from one or more barrels when held in one hand, and having (a) a chamber(s) as an integral part(s) of, or permanently aligned with, the bore(s); and (b) a short stock designed to be gripped by one hand and at an angle to and extending below the line of the bore(s). The NFA further defines the term “any other weapon” (AOW) as: … any weapon or device capable of being concealed on the person from which a shot can be discharged through the energy of an explosive, a pistol or revolver having a barrel with a smooth bore designed or redesigned to fire a fixed shotgun shell, weapons with combination shotgun and rifle barrels 12 inches or more, less than 18 inches in length, from which only a single discharge can be made from either barrel without manual reloading, and shall include any such weapon which may be readily restored to fire. Such term shall not include a pistol or revolver having a rifled bore, or rifled bores, or weapons designed, made, or intended to be fired from the shoulder and not capable of firing fixed ammunition. 26 U.S.C. § 5845(e). ATF has long held that by installing a vertical fore grip on a handgun, the handgun is no longer designed to be held and fired by the use of a single hand. Therefore, if individuals install a vertical fore grip on a handgun, they are “making” a firearm requiring registration with ATF’s NFA Branch. Making an unregistered “AOW” is punishable by a fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. Additionally, possession of an unregistered “AOW” is also punishable by fine and 10 years’ imprisonment. I think I need to write the ATF a letter asking for clarification on this two handed pistol shooting loophole all you people have been using to skirt the NFA. Goodbye this: http://www.bradshawpistolacademy.net/images/lvickers.jpg Hello this: http://loadoutroom.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/05/id_pistol_m1911_700_06-250x181.jpg What's old will be new again. Ha! I thought about that too, along with sending in a pic of my Glock with the extended mag well resting on my shoulder and asking if I need to SBR it. Also, would the front checkering on a trigger guard mean you need to AOW a pistol since it looks like it was made to fire with both hands? |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 12:37:13 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Except that ignores the letters from Shockwave and Black Aces that say the same thing. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 12:50:55 AM EDT
[#34]
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Black Aces was used in an entirely different manner than the design IMHO, and the Shockwave brace is pretty different from Sig's brace. The Shockwave almost looks like it's just a slim stock with a couple of straps on it. I think the ATF just called Shockwave's BS since they're trying to cash in on the popularity of Sig's brace. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Except that ignores the letters from Shockwave and Black Aces that say the same thing. The question is, what are the actual legal differences between those other items vs the original SB-15? Since the SB-15 doesn't change the classification based on usage(Sgt Bradley letter), why would it do so on a "other firearm"(Black Aces), or what makes the Shockwave different than the SB-15? |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 1:15:16 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The question is, what are the actual legal differences between those other items vs the original SB-15? Since the SB-15 doesn't change the classification based on usage(Sgt Bradley letter), why would it do so on a "other firearm"(Black Aces), or what makes the Shockwave different than the SB-15? For the Shockwave, probably no legal difference either but it doesn't exactly look like it was intended as a brace, whereas the Sig does. It would seem that if Shockwave could get away with that thing, they could just put a couple of straps onto an MOE stock and have that approved too. I dunno. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 1:27:19 AM EDT
[#36]
And the 14er nails it.
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....God, gun owners truly are there own worst enemy... |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 1:27:23 AM EDT
[#37]
Zaminski;
Well to answer your question. "Is wannabe pretend cop like wannabe pretend SBR??" I don't know what to tell you. I've been out of the Law Enforcement community for around 25 years now I believe. Wasn't a Wannabe, was sworn. As far as a pretend SBR? Can't say. I don't own one. I'm really not sure what a pretend one would be. It either is, or it isn't an SBR. The problem with you is. You are actually looking forward to seeing, fellow Gun Owners get arrested. Over some ambiguous wording. Or what the meaning of IS is. To me that's sad. And doesn't say very much for your character. Personally I wouldn't wish that on anyone. Not even my worst enemy. As far as me being a Douchebag? Hell I've been called a lot worse than that. By better men than you. Coming from you sir. I take that as a compliment. Thanks!  Enjoy your night!
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Posted: 12/29/2014 1:33:58 AM EDT
[#38]
Nobody at the BATFE gives a single fuck about how you use your sig braces, and not a single person will ever be brought on charges for any "misuse" of anything.
Only about .01% of brace owners will ever read some flavor of the day "ruling". They will continue to buy these things by the thousands in every local gun store for years to come, and the only fucks given, will be by wannabe lawyer fucks on AR15.com. Buy, enjoy, and quit worrying about the sky falling..........cause it's not |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 7:18:39 AM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've already done this actually. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Buy a Sig AR Pistol with Brace......... Pay for the Tax Stamp as a SBR...... Let the Hilarity Begin........... I've already done this actually. 
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Posted: 12/29/2014 7:21:17 AM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It will be so funny at the trial when one of these guys gets busted. <ATF Atty> Sir, since you claim you used this device only as intended, can you show us how to put it on. The weapon has been checked safe by court security. <Busted Arfcomer> I don't know how!! why is that funny? |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 8:44:25 AM EDT
[#41]
you guys still wankin over this..... i thought we where dropping it ?
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Posted: 12/29/2014 8:47:49 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you guys still wankin over this..... i thought we where dropping it ? I'm gonna write a letter to the ATF asking: "Why you change your mind?"
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Posted: 12/29/2014 8:48:46 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
you guys still wankin over this..... i thought we where dropping it ? 
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Posted: 12/29/2014 8:51:03 AM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
you guys still wankin over this..... i thought we where dropping it ? "To SBR or not SBR..........that is the question?"
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Posted: 12/29/2014 9:28:28 AM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Nobody at the BATFE gives a single fuck about how you use your sig braces, and not a single person will ever be brought on charges for any "misuse" of anything. Only about .01% of brace owners will ever read some flavor of the day "ruling". They will continue to buy these things by the thousands in every local gun store for years to come, and the only fucks given, will be by wannabe lawyer fucks on AR15.com. Buy, enjoy, and quit worrying about the sky falling..........cause it's not pretty much. local LE don't enforce ATF letters. IF anyone gets charged 99.9% will be an add on charge involved with another crime <felony>. i don't see the atf running out to ranges looking for sig brace violators anymore than i see them out there looking for actual SBR violations. Even IF they charged someone with conflicting explanations i think they are going to have a hard time getting an actual prosecution. the pistol with a brace installed is 100% a pistol. it is 100% legal to own and use. |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 9:45:18 AM EDT
[#46]
So, is ownership of an AR pistol with a bare buffer tube and a Sig brace in the box constructive intent?
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Posted: 12/29/2014 10:02:27 AM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes! The problem as I see it is ATF "rulings". Gov't agencies should not be making the law or interpreting it. That's for congress and the courts. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
This is such a clusterfuck. I hate the NFA!!
Yes! The problem as I see it is ATF "rulings". Gov't agencies should not be making the law or interpreting it. That's for congress and the courts. This!!! |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 10:17:10 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, is ownership of an AR pistol with a bare buffer tube and a Sig brace in the box constructive intent? Write a letter... |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 10:18:57 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
So, is ownership of an AR pistol with a bare buffer tube and a Sig brace in the box constructive intent? not if it is a pistol and not a "rifle" lower |
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Posted: 12/29/2014 10:20:11 AM EDT
[#50]
I wish sig would make a larger size. My muscular forearms are a very tight fit. Who did they design these for? Skinny girly men?
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