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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:19:43 AM EST
[#1]
Quoted:
I haven't seen a statistic quoted to show the effectiveness of pseudo-banning these prescription drugs. The rationale is to save lives. So now that we're 5 years into this war, how many lives are being saved? Surely there are numbers on this. And I want the same parameters as are quoted to Boogeyman pain pills. I know many will support the deceased prescriptions and many will oppose it, and that's cool... I do want true numbers though somewhere in here. doesn't matter. it's for the children. I am guessing 87. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:27:10 AM EST
[#2]
There wil never be an honest study done on that; far, far too much money is tied up in the whole system to ever say that we might be wasting time, money and lives.
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:28:09 AM EST
[#3]
Well, not the Kennedy chick from yesterday!
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:29:36 AM EST
[#4]
Quoted:
I haven't seen a statistic quoted to show the effectiveness of pseudo-banning these prescription drugs. The rationale is to save lives. So now that we're 5 years into this war, how many lives are being saved? Surely there are numbers on this. And I want the same parameters as are quoted to Boogeyman pain pills. I know many will support the deceased prescriptions and many will oppose it, and that's cool... I do want true numbers though somewhere in here. You're merely attempting to make a statement, not seek information. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:31:02 AM EST
[#5]
I’m more curious about the number of deaths attributed to the war on opioids.
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:31:42 AM EST
[#6]
Well, it's certainly done a good job fucking up people that just need to get a prescription filled. Two of our kids had tonsillectomies yesterday and getting the codine prescription filled took 1.5 hours at the only pharmacy in the city that will bother dealing with it. They also wouldn't even fill the full 10-day prescription, only 7 days worth unless we wanted to pay an extra $100 a kid because our insurance won't let us fill more than a week at a time.
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:37:17 AM EST
[#7]
bigly billions
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:37:21 AM EST
[#8]
There is no war on opioids, until they shut down the border.
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:40:48 AM EST
[#9]
Saw somewhere that FL cracked down a bit and opiate prescriptions are done a lot.
Opiate deaths are at the highest level anyway. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:41:57 AM EST
[#10]
Quoted:
I haven't seen a statistic quoted to show the effectiveness of pseudo-banning these prescription drugs. The rationale is to save lives. So now that we're 5 years into this war, how many lives are being saved? Surely there are numbers on this. And I want the same parameters as are quoted to Boogeyman pain pills. I know many will support the deceased prescriptions and many will oppose it, and that's cool... I do want true numbers though somewhere in here. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:42:10 AM EST
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Well, not the Kennedy chick from yesterday! |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:42:41 AM EST
[#12]
None. LEDs to. Suicides and feytanol ods
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:47:41 AM EST
[#13]
A better question is how much money has been wasted on narcan?
Isn't that shit like $1500/dose? Plus costs of LE/EMS response, chance of respondents getting injured... to do it again next week... Pretty sure a John Doe cremation costs the tax payer $500. Let them die. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:48:18 AM EST
[#14]
A kid I went to high school with, his dad (doctor) went to jail for essentially operating a pill mill.
Another kid I went to high school with, his younger brother (who was honestly the only one in the family with a chance) OD’d and died. Not sure anything would have saved the kid, but I’m glad that New York accent carpet bagging drug dealing lowlife doctor is in jail. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:48:43 AM EST
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I’m more curious about the number of deaths attributed to the war on opioids. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:50:23 AM EST
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A better question is how much money has been wasted on narcan? Isn't that shit like $1500/dose? Plus costs of LE/EMS response, chance of respondents getting injured... to do it again next week... Pretty sure a John Doe cremation costs the tax payer $500. Let them die. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:51:04 AM EST
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd like to see numbers related to deaths from legalized MJ. (traffic, psychotic breakdown, accidents, neglect, etc) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I’m more curious about the number of deaths attributed to the war on opioids. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:51:48 AM EST
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I'd like to see numbers related to deaths from legalized MJ. (traffic, psychotic breakdown, accidents, neglect, etc) Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I’m more curious about the number of deaths attributed to the war on opioids. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:54:28 AM EST
[#19]
The war on drugs is nothing more than a racket run by two competing gangsters.
One wants you to buy a harmful product. The other forces you to buy protection from harmful product. This is just like the sick shit going on in prison. Bull fags will target someone, so some gang offers protection if you join from said bull fag. Now you’re a bitch to the gang. Gang pays bull fag for the mutual business. So Mr and Ms America..we are getting fucked. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:55:18 AM EST
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A better question is how much money has been wasted on narcan? Isn't that shit like $1500/dose? Plus costs of LE/EMS response, chance of respondents getting injured... to do it again next week... Pretty sure a John Doe cremation costs the tax payer $500. Let them die. 
ETA: Seriously The real crime about this "epidemic" is that people with lifelong debilitating pain are being denied the medicine they need because of junkies who use that shit for fun. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:55:38 AM EST
[#21]
Probably more than offset by illicit heroin/fentanyl ODs by desperate addicts willing to try anything.
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Posted: 8/2/2019 8:59:52 AM EST
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
There wil never be an honest study done on that; far, far too much money is tied up in the whole system to ever say that we might be wasting time, money and lives. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:00:51 AM EST
[#23]
Let's just make sure I'm noted on the side that opposes it.
All this does is make it harder for people that have a legitimate need for pain meds to get them legitimately. It also makes street drugs seem a more tempting alternative.
It's not just the US. They do the same shit over here. I went to get my prescriptions adjusted for the local market (since most US narcotic pain meds aren't available here) and the doc takes a minute to look me over and says to me...you don't look like you need pain medicine. Go buy this OTC stuff and get out of here. No shit sherlock, I'm ON pain medicine, it's why I'm not writhing in pain. He must have got his medical degree out of a cracker jack box. I've got plenty of x-rays and scans showing how fucked up my shit is. 
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:01:59 AM EST
[#24]
It has saved no one. Probably has made a lot of people turn to street drugs for pain relief since their Dr cut off their pain med supply. I had to switch Dr's just to continue to get Tramadol for my chronic back issue. First Dr had me trying a bunch of other stuff that didn't work very well. The highlight was when the side effect of one put me in the ER.
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:03:10 AM EST
[#25]
Saved no one. Just like Prohibition and Gun Control.
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:05:57 AM EST
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
A better question is how much money has been wasted on narcan? Isn't that shit like $1500/dose? Plus costs of LE/EMS response, chance of respondents getting injured... to do it again next week... Pretty sure a John Doe cremation costs the tax payer $500. Let them die. Like everything else we do here in the US, both abusers and non-abusers pay for the behavior of the abusers. 3% have a problem and 97% suffer as the result of it. Like I've said about Vicodin numerous times, if one was to attempt an OD on Vicodin, the acetaminophen would fry your liver and kill you long before the hydrocodone had any effect on you. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:06:40 AM EST
[#27]
Quoted:
I haven't seen a statistic quoted to show the effectiveness of pseudo-banning these prescription drugs. The rationale is to save lives. So now that we're 5 years into this war, how many lives are being saved? Surely there are numbers on this. And I want the same parameters as are quoted to Boogeyman pain pills. I know many will support the deceased prescriptions and many will oppose it, and that's cool... I do want true numbers though somewhere in here. I haven’t met many dopers worthy of saving in the first place. I’d rather we legalize it all and ban narcan. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:08:17 AM EST
[#28]
The number saved must be a negative number.
Yes, a negative number. As in the War on Opiods caused there to be deaths. Primarily among patients with no shit intolerable chronic pain. Why live if living is truly miserable? Why be truly miserable putting off an inevitability? The War on Opiods is targeting the wrong point. Going after seizures of heroin, fentanyl, and carefentanyl attacks the problem that is causing ODs. Keeping the guy with well managed, stable opiod treatment for real chronic pain from getting his low dose meds just pushes him toward an accidental OD or a deliberate one. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:12:22 AM EST
[#29]
Substituting synthetic drugs for the real deal?
Didn't counterfeit pain pills kill Prince? |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:14:35 AM EST
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The record here is four different times on the same patient in one day
ETA: Seriously The real crime about this "epidemic" is that people with lifelong debilitating pain are being denied the medicine they need because of junkies who use that shit for fun. One thing I finally found out was the explanation (had to google it) for "BJ's world end the violence" billboard in my town. Some shithead 15yo decided to rip off his would be xanax (different drug family but same point) dealer at the speedway in town. Shithead picked the wrong car to approach and started beating a random guy, who defended himself with lethal force. Guy defending himself is the asshole because dindumuffins... guy should get a break on his taxes for how much he saved us other tax payers on the inevitable lifelong incarceration, property damage, emotional stress, and general drain on society. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:17:22 AM EST
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They also wouldn't even fill the full 10-day prescription, only 7 days worth unless we wanted to pay an extra $100 a kid because our insurance won't let us fill more than a week at a time. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:22:14 AM EST
[#32]
I'm divided on it. My dad lost nearly everything and did lose his life to his addiction. Money from selling a house, his truck, all of his guns, most of his guitars, all gone. Poof. He was a narcotics officer when I was growing up. He got hooked on it after he was put on it for back pain. He kicked the habit, then had dental surgery, was given something stronger and never came back after that.
Now my father in law is having issues with his pain meds. He's been on the same thing for decades (I don't know exactly what it is/was) after a massive motorcycle accident where a tractor trailer took him out and has had no abuse problems, coming up short, etc. Now he's been cut back drastically to comply with new TN drug laws and he's coming up short with meds, asking family for them, etc. I sincerely don't think he's looking to get high on them but is he gonna turn to more illicit things to keep his pain straight? It's a sad mess and to those who weren't abusing them, selling them, and sticking to what the doctor had prescribed I can't see the logic in turning these folks on their heads. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:25:47 AM EST
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: More likely the result of heroin laced with Chinese fentanyl than OTC pain meds. Like everything else we do here in the US, both abusers and non-abusers pay for the behavior of the abusers. 3% have a problem and 97% suffer as the result of it. Like I've said about Vicodin numerous times, if one was to attempt an OD on Vicodin, the acetaminophen would fry your liver and kill you long before the hydrocodone had any effect on you. I like fentanyl. It's a miracle drug. The miracle is that it kills scumbags. Maybe if we let all the abusers off themselves, then those who have a legit medical need wouldn't have to deal with so much BS to get their meds. Maybe society could purge itself of the scum if you could buy drugs OTC and let them kill themselves on it. Cut off the welfare so they starve, legalize it all so the market gets flooded with lots of cheap fentanyl laced dope, then they OD. I'm tired of seeing disgusting druggies all over. I don't care if you do drugs, the issue is that you need to maintain status as a productive member of society. A citizen, a free man, should have no prohibitions on what he chooses to consume in private. So long as he is still a functional and productive member of society. If you can't handle your shit, then you need to GTFO. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:26:05 AM EST
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Substituting synthetic drugs for the real deal? Didn't counterfeit pain pills kill Prince? I knew there was a pic of him from earlier in the day or week where he'd been to the pharmacy. So he was getting a legit Rx and buying on the side. Sad stuff. 
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:32:41 AM EST
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let's just make sure I'm noted on the side that opposes it. All this does is make it harder for people that have a legitimate need for pain meds to get them legitimately. It also makes street drugs seem a more tempting alternative.  and the doc takes a minute to look me over and says to me...you don't look like you need pain medicine. Go buy this OTC stuff and get out of here.
<br>
<br><font color=) No shit sherlock, I'm ON pain medicine, it's why I'm not writhing in pain.He must have got his medical degree out of a cracker jack box.
I've got plenty of x-rays and scans showing how fucked up my shit is. [img]http://www.ar15.com/images/smilies/icon_smile_angry.gif" /> |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:40:37 AM EST
[#36]
zero
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:42:32 AM EST
[#37]
ITT we once again mock the war on drugs. Most people opposed to the WOD are those who use drugs of one kind or another and don't like the idea their playhouse might be disturbed.
Even if the WOD isn't massively successful (and how could it be, with so much resistance from the drug community), it is an attempt. What are YOU doing to stop this scourge? |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:44:24 AM EST
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
But your pharmacist was perfectly willing to fill the entire prescription. Your problem is with your insurance company who would only cover the prescription partially. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
They also wouldn't even fill the full 10-day prescription, only 7 days worth unless we wanted to pay an extra $100 a kid because our insurance won't let us fill more than a week at a time. I can get any other generic filled to the quantity prescribed, and the same issue didn't exist the last time I had to get codine a sinus surgery which was before the war on prescription pain medicine so I guarantee it is either because of a federal policy or just general pressure from them on the insurance company. Not to mention that there is no way that codine would cost that much without federal interference even if it were just my insurance company with the issue. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:47:27 AM EST
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Let's just make sure I'm noted on the side that opposes it. All this does is make it harder for people that have a legitimate need for pain meds to get them legitimately. It also makes street drugs seem a more tempting alternative.
It's not just the US. They do the same shit over here. I went to get my prescriptions adjusted for the local market (since most US narcotic pain meds aren't available here) and the doc takes a minute to look me over and says to me...you don't look like you need pain medicine. Go buy this OTC stuff and get out of here. No shit sherlock, I'm ON pain medicine, it's why I'm not writhing in pain. He must have got his medical degree out of a cracker jack box. I've got plenty of x-rays and scans showing how fucked up my shit is. Just like going after the gun and not the criminal, attacking the object and not the illegal act is the American way. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:50:14 AM EST
[#40]
Quoted:
I haven't seen a statistic quoted to show the effectiveness of pseudo-banning these prescription drugs. The rationale is to save lives. So now that we're 5 years into this war, how many lives are being saved? Surely there are numbers on this. And I want the same parameters as are quoted to Boogeyman pain pills. I know many will support the deceased prescriptions and many will oppose it, and that's cool... I do want true numbers though somewhere in here. The best they can do is compare death rates before and after, and that won't really prove anything. sort of like how many times has a gun been used to prevent a crime without firing it? There are estimates of between 1 and 3 million times a year, but no proof, as the crime didn't happen and nobody reported it. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:52:03 AM EST
[#41]
Impossible to quantify.
How much longer would you live if you didn't cross the street today at noon? |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:52:10 AM EST
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Uh huh, I'm going to go out on a limb and assert that it is because of the feds cracking down on prescription pain pills that has to do with that policy from the insurance company. I can get any other generic filled to the quantity prescribed, and the same issue didn't exist the last time I had to get codine a sinus surgery which was before the war on prescription pain medicine so I guarantee it is either because of a federal policy or just general pressure from them on the insurance company. Not to mention that there is no way that codine would cost that much without federal interference even if it were just my insurance company with the issue. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
They also wouldn't even fill the full 10-day prescription, only 7 days worth unless we wanted to pay an extra $100 a kid because our insurance won't let us fill more than a week at a time. I can get any other generic filled to the quantity prescribed, and the same issue didn't exist the last time I had to get codine a sinus surgery which was before the war on prescription pain medicine so I guarantee it is either because of a federal policy or just general pressure from them on the insurance company. Not to mention that there is no way that codine would cost that much without federal interference even if it were just my insurance company with the issue. It's not uncommon for insurance to put a limit on the number of days they'll pay for on certain medications. A good pharmacy would call the doctor and see if they would like to do something else and there's also (or was when I was in the business) a way to over-ride the insurance's denial by saying it medically necessary and overridden by the doctor (i forget the exact term that was used, it's been about 15 years ago). |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:52:59 AM EST
[#43]
Not sure about prescription drugs, but when it comes to heroin overdoses, way too many.Narcan purchased with taxpayer funds should be for first responders and children only.
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:53:56 AM EST
[#44]
Whoever manufactures Narcan is making some bank. Follow the money.
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Posted: 8/2/2019 9:59:26 AM EST
[#45]
The “1-10” pain scale has killed thousands.
Good job whoever thought that up! |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 10:00:26 AM EST
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ITT we once again mock the war on drugs. Most people opposed to the WOD are those who use drugs of one kind or another and don't like the idea their playhouse might be disturbed. Even if the WOD isn't massively successful (and how could it be, with so much resistance from the drug community), it is an attempt. What are YOU doing to stop this scourge? also ITT we once again mock the war on gun violence. Most people opposed to the gun control are those who use firearms of one kind or another and don't like the idea their playhouse might be disturbed. Even if the gun control isn't massively successful (and how could it be, with so much resistance from the gun lobby), it is an attempt. What are YOU doing to stop this scourge? It's a legitimate parallel because they are just a tool that is being banned/restricted because some people misuse it. Meanwhile all us regular people can't get good otc medicine anymore because someone found a way to turn it into meth (which likely wouldn't be that big a thing without the WOD) once. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 10:00:38 AM EST
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
ITT we once again mock the war on drugs. Most people opposed to the WOD are those who use drugs of one kind or another and don't like the idea their playhouse might be disturbed. Even if the WOD isn't massively successful (and how could it be, with so much resistance from the drug community), it is an attempt. What are YOU doing to stop this scourge? ETA- Nope, don't use drugs and rarely even have a drink. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 10:06:15 AM EST
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not my problem that you overdosed on fentanyl... maybe you shouldn't be shooting smack, right? IMO if you make the decision to do heroin, you have made the decision to inevitably kill yourself, and you no longer have a right to life. I like fentanyl. It's a miracle drug. The miracle is that it kills scumbags. Maybe if we let all the abusers off themselves, then those who have a legit medical need wouldn't have to deal with so much BS to get their meds. Maybe society could purge itself of the scum if you could buy drugs OTC and let them kill themselves on it. Cut off the welfare so they starve, legalize it all so the market gets flooded with lots of cheap fentanyl laced dope, then they OD. I'm tired of seeing disgusting druggies all over. I don't care if you do drugs, the issue is that you need to maintain status as a productive member of society. A citizen, a free man, should have no prohibitions on what he chooses to consume in private. So long as he is still a functional and productive member of society. If you can't handle your shit, then you need to GTFO. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: More likely the result of heroin laced with Chinese fentanyl than OTC pain meds. Like everything else we do here in the US, both abusers and non-abusers pay for the behavior of the abusers. 3% have a problem and 97% suffer as the result of it. Like I've said about Vicodin numerous times, if one was to attempt an OD on Vicodin, the acetaminophen would fry your liver and kill you long before the hydrocodone had any effect on you. I like fentanyl. It's a miracle drug. The miracle is that it kills scumbags. Maybe if we let all the abusers off themselves, then those who have a legit medical need wouldn't have to deal with so much BS to get their meds. Maybe society could purge itself of the scum if you could buy drugs OTC and let them kill themselves on it. Cut off the welfare so they starve, legalize it all so the market gets flooded with lots of cheap fentanyl laced dope, then they OD. I'm tired of seeing disgusting druggies all over. I don't care if you do drugs, the issue is that you need to maintain status as a productive member of society. A citizen, a free man, should have no prohibitions on what he chooses to consume in private. So long as he is still a functional and productive member of society. If you can't handle your shit, then you need to GTFO. That's what we do. We punish the responsible users on account of the stupid things the 3%-5% do over and over again. Gun control is a perfect example. |
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Posted: 8/2/2019 10:12:58 AM EST
[#49]
If your goal is to make sick and injured people suffer needlessly, and create a black market for opioids, the War on Opioids is your answer.
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Posted: 8/2/2019 10:15:59 AM EST
[#50]
How much freedom was lost?
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