I don't want anything banned. I want let darwin do his thing.

Like pre-WWI?

Never going to happen. That ship has sailed.

Heroin is Schedule I (totally banned) in the US, yet it's available on the black market.

Never say never.  Marijuana is still Schedule I, but it's legal in a number of states.

With the widespread issuing of Narcan, the wrong lives have been saved multiple times in a row.

My cost is $186.57 for a two pack of the nasal spray, I can't purchase them individually.

Wonder if it has anything to do with the poppy fields in Afghanistan that the USA is "protecting".

That's still way too much money to spend on junkies.

How many ODs would there be if opiates were available OTC at Walgreens?

The same number we see today, less if we stopped trying to save junkies.

I think it would be less, because the dosage would be known and consistent.

... likely north of a million people

I know I have to spend more money now because I have to see a pain management doctor instead of being able to get a norco or demerol script from my regular doc anymore because she doesn't want to deal with the new regulations.

Agreed.  Got my chest cracked a couple of years ago after a knee surgery and in ICU all they would give me was less than what I had for the knee.  Get your sternum sawed in half and cough up blood every few minutes and let me know if that’s enough.  Even had two doctors agree the nurses were being stingy, noted it in my chart I could have more, but still no relief.  Not looking forward to two knee replacements since this seems to be a trend.

Amen, I’m on benzos (not even a fricken opioid) and I have to go to the doc every 3mo to get a script. It costs more to see the doc than 3mo of meds cost. $40 to get a $3.50x3 script.

This in spades.  Most junkies aren't trying to die; in my experience (over twenty years EMS) they're wanting to get "comfortably numb" or even just take the edge off.  The problem is that they have an unknown quantity and quality of product and they're guessing at the dosage.  Even a lot of the illegally purchased "prescription meds" are counterfeit because, who's going to know or report it?   Making a product extended release or other methods to try to reduce overuse leads to them crushing them, insufflating them, mixing them, doing home extractions, etc.  When you have a known product, say oxicontin for example, most users will know what they have and what the normal dosages are (even off-label dosing).  They will take enough to get to where they want to be.  Humans have been getting knackered since the dawn of time, that's not going to change.  Logic would say that forcing them to buy questionable at best products leads to more deaths than if they just let people buy a quality product up front.

There was a study done in Britain some years ago where heroin junkies were prescribed a quantity of heroin laced cigarettes.  Heroin being dirt cheap, it didn't cost the British government much.  The chemist (pharmacist) was able to make cigarettes with a known quality and quantity in each cigarette.  The results were that most users weaned themselves off in approximately five years- they essentially "outgrew" it was the conclusion.  But more surprisingly, most of the individuals in the program were able to hold down jobs and be responsible because they were no longer having to work shady jobs such as theft or prostitution while chasing a dealer.  Since the users knew they had their drug available to them most seemed to shift their usage to times when they did not need to be doing something (such as working) and in the evenings when they relaxed before going to bed.  Obviously the program flew in the face of the US drug policies and the drug warrior's ideas and I've since been unable to find some of the original studies or the Vice footage (back when Vice actually did some decent journalism).

The US has had various drug "crisis" over the years including issues with opium, but I haven't been able to find any numbers on percentages that I would consider unbiased- yes, we have large numbers of people die from OD'ing, but we have far more people now as well- have the actual percentages changed?  We also know that some people seem to be hardwired towards addiction- whether it be drugs, porn, sex, alcohol, gambling, crossfit, whatever- have those numbers changed and if so why?

What we're doing now is an utter failure, we're fighting human nature while feeding a whole multi-billion dollar system that has grown up around this fight, a system that includes branches of the military, government, healthcare, judicial, etc..  What is the cost of this system versus the alternative?  Besides the obvious legal questions you could devote whole courses to the ethics behind it.  Who has the right to tell people what they can and can't do with their bodies?  I honestly don't know what the answer is, but I do know that what we're doing now is not working.  

ETA- Here's a video on how Portugal is handling their drug problem.  They have a different, European healthcare system (although it could be argued not that much different since Obamacare) but given our overall spending on this issue the costs would probably not be that much different if we were to shift the funding to treating it as a healthcare issue instead of a criminal one- not that anyone is going to want to give up their dental plans or sweet retirement benefits.

All of this.

At this point, I am convinced our leaders also know this.  They can't stop the W.O.D. jobs program & rights end-runs that the W.O.D. provides.

If we really wanted to solve this, we wouldn't be continuing a path that has proven itself to do jack and shit to solve the actual issue while costing us tons of $ and freedoms.

I do believe we have the ability to substantially reduce drug use, but it's not going to be done doing what we are doing.  It will be done by using human nature against the problem, rather than threatening the person with bad things (which their minds do not place in a high enough priority to matter).

There's a war on opioids?

I hadn't noticed.

Honestly, I hadn't noticed the opioid "crisis" people keeping bleating about, either.

Losing their kids and everything they own is not a priority to them either. Dope is life until they make the conscious decision to quit.

Do we want to continue spending money to have our rights infringed upon, or do we want to take the "risk" of doing something different?

Keep in mind that if we continue what we are doing now, we will continue to make the headway we are making now (we aren't affecting addiction rates).  So even if we try something new and it doesn't work any better....we haven't lost anything....

But what we've been doing isn't working.  Time to try something new.  My thought is to get a bunch of shrinks together that know a lot about the mind of an addict and have them come up with ways to manipulate addicts into returning to being a functional member of society rather than an unemployable pariah that has no choice but to continue their lives of crime.

The rest of them can die of OD or get maintenance doses.  Will still be cheaper than what we are doing now in both money and freedom.

Everyone wants to try to scare/force/etc people into being scared of these things.  Fear has been proven not to work in the way we like to use it.

Absolutely.  My bet the saudis had some competition amongst the tribes.  So the saudi’s Approached the swamp creatures here in the US through their connections with sex trafficking fucks like Epstein to find some dirty politicians.
The saudi’s Make an offer they can’t refuse.  Essentially a plan to use the US military as a mercenary force to take out the saudis competition and in return the saudis will give oil rights in iraq to US companies along with the Poppy fields in Afghanistan, once their tribe establishes control.

Mean while the traitors of our country make bank, off the lives or soldiers, drug addicts, and innocents killed in between and god knows what else.  Then the fucks will sell the story to Hollywood and they’ll change a few things around and sell you the real fucking story under your nose and say “look it’s a work of fiction! This shit can’t happen in real life.”

Just another way to wipe their hands clean with money from your pocket.  All for a god damn dollar and power over people.

I wish I could unsee this shit but I can’t.
The thing that pisses me off the most though. As a soldier I can come to terms with dying for a dollar.  Sure as shit wouldn’t have joined if they weren’t paying me.  But one thing I can’t stand is being fucking lied too.  And that’s why it is paramount we find out just how fucking dirty American politicians are.

When were a Soldier and what kind?

@Stlkid

Were you vaccinated as a child?

The responsibility lies with the "kid". If he had taken his medication as prescribed, he would not be dead. Though the doctor should be in jail for the new York accent.

Yep, everybody is terrified of being sued... Doctors, pharmacies, insurance, etc. In your case, the insurance screwed you with their limits. It sucks but if my kid needed medication, I'd come out of pocket so they wouldn't have to suffer any more than necessary. It's crazy that this is the situation we're in. Pain went from the 5th vital sign to fuck you I don't want to get sued.

We are here because personal responsibility is out the door and someone else is always to blame.

I'm sorry about your dad. I do believe that this type of analgesia should be an option for people. The risks should be explained, but it boils down to the fact that it helps a majority of people get through the day when they normally couldn't. The incidence of becoming addicted to pain pills exclusively is small. I know that doesn't make things better in your tough situation, but most people who become addicted have an addictive type personality and typically have issues with substance abuse prior. It's a delicate balance, but these red flags should bring in a more careful effort and intensive care team.

They quantified it to enact the opioid war. All they would have to do is run the same criteria for comparison.

Countless...

Alcohol wasn't banned pre-WWI.   Then it was banned.

Now it isn't, again.

How many lives were saved by prohibition? None, it cost lives...people drank bootleg booze and died or went blind that would have otherwise had not.

Similar effect taking place now, legit pain sufferers with chronic life long pain are now told to do yoga and a take an aspirin, thus they must make the choice to live in agony, eat a bullet or seek street drugs. Most opioid deaths are from the latter because now they don't know if they are getting the same dose as last time or 1000x's higher. When all they really needed to begin with was a low level Vicodin which doctors are now terrified to give them.

I'm just glad my mom died 10 years ago before all this BS started with the government controlling pain. She had both severe Parkinson's which made her shake plus Osteoporosis which made her sometimes break bones doing so. She could roll over in bed and break a rib. At least then they gave her pain meds then for her last few years, now she would have to suffer needlessly thanks to the war on chronic pain sufferers.

We wouldn't be in this situation if it wasn't for abuse and recreational use of the prescription opioids.  Blame the violators, not the govt.

These "violators" (see junkies, drug addicts, etc) are not the one that changed the laws and made it impossible for chronic pain sufferers to have any quality of life. Why are we always at the mercy of the same shitty people to dictate laws for the entire population? It's similar to enacting gun control. The bad guys, the reason the law is enacted, will disregard the law and continue to be shitty people. Meanwhile the law abiding citizens are punished and are the only ones effected by the law.

I was speaking of prescription meds but I get your point.

But I think most people will take the pain as opposed to using heroin, which is dangerous and impure.

Heroin, morphine and cocaine were OTC pre-WWI.

I doubt that will ever happen again.

The jury is still out on weed, but everything is settled with heroin, morphine and cocaine.

Was that the cop's excuse for shooting your client's dog?

Speaking as a patient, surgeon & physician—the idiocy has spread to tell patients they will NOT receive narcotics before surgery & expect & tolerate pain & sleeplessness.

Having been on the receiving end of a blade, drill & saw—I refuse to do this to my patients.  It is inappropriate patient care & in the words of GD: I will not comply.

The future of American medicine.

Doctor
"I have good news and bad news.
The good news is open heart surgery may save your life.
The bad news is you'll be awake during the procedure and will receive no main medication."

Patient
"Can't you just shoot me?"

This is the dumbest post of the day.

<--- Has a degree in Addiction,  Disorder, and recovery studies (dual major w/another area of study in finance), and has multiple family members in LE on a local and federal level that discuss the WOD.

I would refuse treatment from a doctor that would deny me pain management after surgery.

Ive had surgery and got good pills for it.   Didn't have any issue stopping when it was time.

Are you seriously comparing alcohol to heroin?

Plus the number of lives ruined via degradation of quality of life.

Pain can kill the old and infirm.

Expect to see an increase in really pissed off old people with no shits left to give.

My wife's cancer had her in constant pain, so that was fucking nice.

I quit oxycodone 2 weeks ago after 8 years of daily usage.

I know right! Alcohol has killed more people and destroys a lot more families. It's really unfair to heroin.