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Link Posted: 6/25/2023 10:10:16 PM EDT
[#1]
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Quoted:


If you're not violating fire code, it's not overcrowded.
If there are too many students needing individual attention, that attention shouldn't be expected to be provided during normal class hours. Some kids are going to fail.
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Yeah, let me introduce you to the individual education plan.
Link Posted: 6/25/2023 10:11:39 PM EDT
[#2]
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Quoted:
Something needs to change. My wife works 70 hours a week for 10.5 months for less than she would make at a Buc'ees stocking Beaver Nuggets.
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I don’t believe you.
Link Posted: 6/25/2023 10:21:18 PM EDT
[#3]
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Quoted:


Maybe teaching isn't the right career for a sole breadwinner raising three kids.
The same can be said for many occupations, maybe even most occupations these days.
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For what is demanded, it should be.  Seriously, the classroom part is just the tip.of the iceberg.   .  
Link Posted: 6/25/2023 10:25:31 PM EDT
[#4]
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Quoted:
70 hr/wk * 4.3 wk/mo * 10.5 mo/yr = 3,160 hours/year

$52k/yr --> $16/hr

What's missing from the hourly wage evaluation is the toll taken by working 70 hours/wk.  Add in the kids' issues; add in the parents' issues,... it adds up.  

Teachers, real teachers, are under-valued and under-appreciated in our society.  

Because of that, you get crappy teachers in the schools.  Eliminating tenure and starting merit-based pay will go a long way to solving that probem.
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If you want quality workers, you have to pay for it.
Link Posted: 6/25/2023 10:36:50 PM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:

Second, go to year-round school. Then society can justify paying teachers for 12 months of work. If two to four weeks of vacation is enough for taxpayers, it's enough for public servants who work for the taxpayers.


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It's probably been brought up in this multipage shitfest, but teachers aren't paid for 12 months of work. They are paid a salary per contracted days. Most of us elect to have that amount paid out over a 12 month period instead of 9 months. There are potentially pages of legitimate bitches about teachers, teachers' unions and public education in general, but this particular argument just goes to show you are talking out your ass with no idea what's really going on...
Link Posted: 6/25/2023 10:39:49 PM EDT
[#6]
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Quoted:
Something needs to change. My wife works 70 hours a week for 10.5 months for less than she would make at a Buc'ees stocking Beaver Nuggets.
View Quote


No whining. She chose it. She can unchoose it. There is a huge surplus of unemployed teachers. Get rid of the unions and let the law of supply and demand work itself out. Nobody in education is entitled to shit. I was a teacher and administrator. My first job outside education doubled my income. I still had 25 years in education when I retired. I just refused to be in the public schools.
Link Posted: 6/25/2023 10:41:07 PM EDT
[#7]
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Quoted:


No private citizen has the power to implement that pipe dream, so it will never happen.

However, our friends came up with their own personal approach by homeschooling their kids
in order to protect them from the filthy stinking cesspools of woke propaganda the public schools have become.
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BINGO!
Link Posted: 6/25/2023 10:41:37 PM EDT
[#8]
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Quoted:
Some areas/states pay poorly but others, they get paid well and they will still cry poverty. Heard that myself way to often thought Mi pays well. I just smile, nod my head,  and tell them ''I know where you live on the lake.'' That tends to shut them the hell up pretty quickly. You aren't living on the lake in a nice house if you are poverty level paid.

And few people are going to net the pension many of them get, and if they get into administration, it's a dirty little secret how much most make yearly.

''It's for the kids'' is the biggest pile of horse shit ever thought up, it really means ''we are going to financially F you silly and try to make you feel good about it.''
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Ha yes friend is a teacher in MI and makes mid $90s.
Link Posted: 6/25/2023 10:43:29 PM EDT
[#9]
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Quoted:
The "teacher pay problem" is teacher union propaganda.



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I think there's a regional bias to this - teachers in my AO are over-paid.

Like anything else the democrats touch, there's massive "income inequalities" due to them trying to fix them
Like NYC, like CA, like DC - you have solidly upperclass people next to people working harder, trying to scrape by.
So they ask for a dollar in the box to fix it. They get even richer, the people scraping by run in place, and the taxpayers are poorer.
Link Posted: 6/25/2023 10:44:42 PM EDT
[#10]
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Quoted:


No whining. She chose it. She can unchoose it. There is a huge surplus of unemployed teachers. Get rid of the unions and let the law of supply and demand work itself out. Nobody in education is entitled to shit. I was a teacher and administrator. My first job outside education doubled my income. I still had 25 years in education when I retired. I just refused to be in the public schools.
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There are no longer a surplus of teachers. 10 years ago? Sure. Now schools are lucky if they can fill all the spots. They will stop requiring 4 year degrees soon I think.
Link Posted: 6/25/2023 11:32:08 PM EDT
[#11]
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Quoted:


There are no longer a surplus of teachers. 10 years ago? Sure. Now schools are lucky if they can fill all the spots. They will stop requiring 4 year degrees soon I think.
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They are already bringing in in foreign teachers.
Link Posted: 6/25/2023 11:33:08 PM EDT
[#12]
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Quoted:
I love these teacher threads. It's obvious 75% f GD has NO FUCKING CLUE how schools actually work. Better to just bitch about teacher and how they should work 200 hours a week pouring concrete and running a 2 billion dollar business like all of GD does. Also, most of GD would get fired from teaching in about 3 hours.
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LOL, I think most do, that is why so many decide to home school
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 2:18:41 AM EDT
[#13]
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Quoted:Is $60k a year even above the poverty line in LA?
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My wife and I live well on $30k.
It's easy to do with zero debts.

Whatever LAUSD teachers get paid
doesn't change what they are...

...America hating liberals.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 2:40:16 AM EDT
[#14]
You misunderstood comrade. Children must be taught to be politically reliable agents of the state. To actually think is reserved for the private schools for the elites.

The system is perfect comrade, soon we will be a one party state working for the glory of a soviet socialist paradise.

That’s sarcasm by the way from me. Other people…….not so much.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 3:10:12 AM EDT
[#15]
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Quoted:
70 hr/wk * 4.3 wk/mo * 10.5 mo/yr = 3,160 hours/year

$52k/yr --> $16/hr

What's missing from the hourly wage evaluation is the toll taken by working 70 hours/wk.  Add in the kids' issues; add in the parents' issues,... it adds up.  

Teachers, real teachers, are under-valued and under-appreciated in our society.  

Because of that, you get crappy teachers in the schools.  Eliminating tenure and starting merit-based pay will go a long way to solving that probem.
View Quote


Why the hell is she working 70 hours/week.  That would be my first problem. $52k/year is shit with that experience though, even with normal work weeks.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 3:30:50 AM EDT
[#16]
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Quoted:


If you want quality workers, you have to pay for it.
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If they actually paid for quality, it would probably mean replacement of the majority of the people in the "profession" of teaching with more qualified candidates from other job markets.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 3:41:50 AM EDT
[#17]
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Quoted:


If you're not violating fire code, it's not overcrowded.
If there are too many students needing individual attention, that attention shouldn't be expected to be provided during normal class hours. Some kids are going to fail.
View Quote


I taught in a building where classes were so over crowded that kids were sitting on the counters, the teachers desk, and in some cases the floor.

43 kids in a room designed for 28-30.

Is that sufficiently overcrowded enough for you?
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 3:51:06 AM EDT
[#18]
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Quoted:
When there is a shortage of teachers then I'll think there is a teacher pay problem.  
.
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There's a huge nationwide teacher shortage and it's only going to get worse.  There aren't enough students entering college education programs just to replace predictable demographic vacancies due to retirement.

There's no way to account for the mass resignations and early retirements that are occurring.

My district has 250 vacancies that were bever filled in 2023-2024, and there were more resignations and retirements at end of year than ever.

It gets hidden by collapsing sections of classes, over flowing enrollment in classes, and hiring long term subs, but the problem is there and it's going to get worse because there are simply no other people to take those positions.

They'll just import people from Phillipines again to fill the holes.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 4:20:39 AM EDT
[#19]
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Quoted:
Something needs to change. My wife works 70 hours a week for 10.5 months for less than she would make at a Buc'ees stocking Beaver Nuggets.
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Truth.

I'm onboard with getting rid of state-based teacher pensions. My wife taught in Kansans, Texas, Georgia, back to Texas, and now back in Georgia. If she had would have just had her own retirement investment account (she does now), she wouldn't have wrongly wasted contributing to the KS and TX teacher pension fund she'll never recoup. I don't like pensions in general (and yes, I'm a retired .mil with a pension), as they aren't very flexible for today's workforce.

School systems are the largest tax-funded systems in the vast majority of communities. The public education system for the unions and administrators is like Ukraine is for corrupt politicians. The vast amount of tax revenue doesn't make it to the classroom and teachers are on the lowest priority for pay because the kids aren't a priority. Too many administrators, too much spent on stupid "professional development", wasted money on mega-testing companies, and unions (although GA doesn't have your typical teacher unions).

When my wife was in the classroom, she would easily spend 60-70 hours a week in/out of the classroom and she would spend hundreds of dollars a month on books, supplies, teaching resources, etc. out of her own pocket. She just got hired as an assistant principle and starts her doctorate dissertation this fall...I still work half of what she puts in and make twice as much...

The public education is broken, but there are still a lot of dedicated and quality teachers trying to teach and help make good citizens...but there are a lot who aren't worth a shit, toxic, and feeling entitled to get a pension for baby sitting 7-8 hours a day. Given that 90% of children attend public schools, it's simply something we can't ignore or abandon.

ROCK6
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 4:40:34 AM EDT
[#20]
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Quoted:


No whining. She chose it. She can unchoose it. There is a huge surplus of unemployed teachers. Get rid of the unions and let the law of supply and demand work itself out. Nobody in education is entitled to shit. I was a teacher and administrator. My first job outside education doubled my income. I still had 25 years in education when I retired. I just refused to be in the public schools.
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Something needs to change. My wife works 70 hours a week for 10.5 months for less than she would make at a Buc'ees stocking Beaver Nuggets.


No whining. She chose it. She can unchoose it. There is a huge surplus of unemployed teachers. Get rid of the unions and let the law of supply and demand work itself out. Nobody in education is entitled to shit. I was a teacher and administrator. My first job outside education doubled my income. I still had 25 years in education when I retired. I just refused to be in the public schools.



There is no huge surplus of teachers.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 5:16:33 AM EDT
[#21]
No pay problem now.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 6:28:33 AM EDT
[#22]
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Quoted:



I would love to see this bunch of mouth breathers teach inner city kids how to read. ?? ?? ??
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Because the current lot is doing such a “great” job?
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 6:32:05 AM EDT
[#23]
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Quoted:





You honestly think anyone can be a teacher? We have a lot of unqualified teachers or teachers that are qualified but don’t care in Chicago public schools. I am sure it is true in other school systems but I am close to Chicago and get their news. It woukd be very hard for anyone to be a teacher without having a degree.
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Because the current system is working out so well by collegiate educated teachers in the inner city? What’s the literacy rate you guys have cultivated…6th grade level? Tits on a boar.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 9:50:50 AM EDT
[#24]
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Quoted:


There's a huge nationwide teacher shortage and it's only going to get worse.  There aren't enough students entering college education programs just to replace predictable demographic vacancies due to retirement.

There's no way to account for the mass resignations and early retirements that are occurring.

My district has 250 vacancies that were bever filled in 2023-2024, and there were more resignations and retirements at end of year than ever.

It gets hidden by collapsing sections of classes, over flowing enrollment in classes, and hiring long term subs, but the problem is there and it's going to get worse because there are simply no other people to take those positions.

They'll just import people from Phillipines again to fill the holes.
View Quote


We already have teachers from the Philippines and long term subs.  Class sizes are full to bursting.  

The system will not go away, but the quality of instruction can get worse.  There are good and great teachers out there, but the situation is rapidly becoming untenable.  Pay is big part, but only one part.

Keep your kids at home if you care about them.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 10:09:42 AM EDT
[#25]
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Quoted:

Truth.

I'm onboard with getting rid of state-based teacher pensions. My wife taught in Kansans, Texas, Georgia, back to Texas, and now back in Georgia. If she had would have just had her own retirement investment account (she does now), she wouldn't have wrongly wasted contributing to the KS and TX teacher pension fund she'll never recoup. I don't like pensions in general (and yes, I'm a retired .mil with a pension), as they aren't very flexible for today's workforce.

School systems are the largest tax-funded systems in the vast majority of communities. The public education system for the unions and administrators is like Ukraine is for corrupt politicians. The vast amount of tax revenue doesn't make it to the classroom and teachers are on the lowest priority for pay because the kids aren't a priority. Too many administrators, too much spent on stupid "professional development", wasted money on mega-testing companies, and unions (although GA doesn't have your typical teacher unions).

When my wife was in the classroom, she would easily spend 60-70 hours a week in/out of the classroom and she would spend hundreds of dollars a month on books, supplies, teaching resources, etc. out of her own pocket. She just got hired as an assistant principle and starts her doctorate dissertation this fall...I still work half of what she puts in and make twice as much...

The public education is broken, but there are still a lot of dedicated and quality teachers trying to teach and help make good citizens...but there are a lot who aren't worth a shit, toxic, and feeling entitled to get a pension for baby sitting 7-8 hours a day. Given that 90% of children attend public schools, it's simply something we can't ignore or abandon.

ROCK6
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Quoted:
Quoted:
Something needs to change. My wife works 70 hours a week for 10.5 months for less than she would make at a Buc'ees stocking Beaver Nuggets.

Truth.

I'm onboard with getting rid of state-based teacher pensions. My wife taught in Kansans, Texas, Georgia, back to Texas, and now back in Georgia. If she had would have just had her own retirement investment account (she does now), she wouldn't have wrongly wasted contributing to the KS and TX teacher pension fund she'll never recoup. I don't like pensions in general (and yes, I'm a retired .mil with a pension), as they aren't very flexible for today's workforce.

School systems are the largest tax-funded systems in the vast majority of communities. The public education system for the unions and administrators is like Ukraine is for corrupt politicians. The vast amount of tax revenue doesn't make it to the classroom and teachers are on the lowest priority for pay because the kids aren't a priority. Too many administrators, too much spent on stupid "professional development", wasted money on mega-testing companies, and unions (although GA doesn't have your typical teacher unions).

When my wife was in the classroom, she would easily spend 60-70 hours a week in/out of the classroom and she would spend hundreds of dollars a month on books, supplies, teaching resources, etc. out of her own pocket. She just got hired as an assistant principle and starts her doctorate dissertation this fall...I still work half of what she puts in and make twice as much...

The public education is broken, but there are still a lot of dedicated and quality teachers trying to teach and help make good citizens...but there are a lot who aren't worth a shit, toxic, and feeling entitled to get a pension for baby sitting 7-8 hours a day. Given that 90% of children attend public schools, it's simply something we can't ignore or abandon.

ROCK6



Pensions are a way to retain experienced employees.
When people used to bitch about poor pay I would remind them they would keep getting paid long after they retired whereas other people with no pension wouldn’t. That’s a HUGE hook to have in people.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 1:55:57 PM EDT
[#26]
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Quoted:

Can you point to a single advanced society with a universally educated populace on the face of the planet where your suggested model is successfully used
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Abolishing public school seems extreme today, it will not seem so extreme with the blessing of experience and hindsight in thirty years.

Can you point to a single advanced society with a universally educated populace on the face of the planet where your suggested model is successfully used
We have teachers scolding kids because they refuse to recognize another student's "cat gender" FFS.

You know what... Conservatives *DESERVE* to fucking lose. We all bitch and moan about liberals, and bitch and moan about the younger generations being woke... but then VEHEMENTLY DEFEND THE VERY INSTITUTION RESPONSIBLE FOR IT! WTF is wrong with you!?

If you instead think the public school system needs a purging instead of abolishment fine. If you disagree with the solution to the problem... fine. But if you *DENY* there is a problem, and think its totally cool to send your kids to public school... then you have no one to blame but yourself when your son comes home claiming to be a girl and now hates you.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 1:57:37 PM EDT
[#27]
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Quoted:


Is $60k a year even above the poverty line in LA?
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Quoted:
Quoted:
The average annual LAUSD teacher salary is $5,250 per month.

They are typically bitter divorced liberal females who inflict their woke lunacy onto their pupils.

Any parents who are not homeschooling their kids are stupid to expose them to these government funded monsters.




Is $60k a year even above the poverty line in LA?
The typical LA teacher deserves to live in poverty. They're happy telling kids that they were born in the wrong gender and telling them to hate their parents. Fuck those teachers. They deserve far worse than poverty wages.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 2:10:27 PM EDT
[#28]
Sorry, there does not seem to be a shortage of teachers where I am located.   What percentage of the teachers pay is in union dues?   Also, don’t the good private schools in a given area pay more for top preforming teachers?
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 2:35:40 PM EDT
[#29]
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Quoted:

Obviously we are speaking in generalities here, but the problem is ultimately culture and demographics.

If the district is mostly occupied by families whose culture is broken then the outcomes at the school are going to be terrible no matter what.

On the demographic side If the district is full of recent illegal immigrants who don’t speak English, and aren’t up to the educational level they should be for their age the outcome for the district will also be terrible.
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You could pay teachers enough to be the top 0.000001% of earners and wealth holders, it will not fix the problem.

It might even make it worse.

The problem is not the facilities, or the pay rate.

The main problem is that any schools of any type are allowed to take ANY tax-drived funds, at all.

If you take tax funds, that removes you from having to be responsible to the people who pay the funds. This is inherent.

The people that run taxpayer funded institutions KNOW that they ultimately *do not need to care what you think.*

Government unions are an order of magnitude worse. They are tax-funded unions. Unions that rely on strikes to pressure employers are inherently anti-worker. So a tax funded union coercively takes your money to pay them to not work.

Just barely behind those in importance are the teachers colleges. Colleges of education were and are a target for the left and have been almost universally utterly perverted to the point they cannot be fixed. They are the absolute worst of the rot, if not vying very hard to be the worst. They can only be destroyed now, and replaced later, after the systemic virus that ruined them is utterly expunged.

The last I'll mention is curriciulum. Your kid might be in a no-tax taking no-colleges of education teacher taking anti-union school, but the curriculums that are available are greatly affected by the conditions I mentioned above.

IMO teacher's pay levels is so far down the scale of importance compared to these that it's almost not worth mentioning.

Obviously we are speaking in generalities here, but the problem is ultimately culture and demographics.

If the district is mostly occupied by families whose culture is broken then the outcomes at the school are going to be terrible no matter what.

On the demographic side If the district is full of recent illegal immigrants who don’t speak English, and aren’t up to the educational level they should be for their age the outcome for the district will also be terrible.

Agreed, though maybe not in exactly the same way.

That's the current nail in the coffin.

The prevalent culture in the union and the school systems earlier is also the cause of the stuff I mentioned.

The "honor" culture of those you mention is simply nailing the coffin shut on education.

If we undid everything I've mentioned, the people who beleive and act the way you mention would undo it, wherever they are prevalent and in control.

We would at least still have better education available for people who sought it though.

Right now, it's very hard to get a good education untainted by the stuff I mentioned.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 2:38:39 PM EDT
[#30]
Our school systems have been screwing up our culture and civilization for a very long time:


Click To View Spoiler
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 2:50:34 PM EDT
[#31]
There isnt a teacher pay problem. Theres a parent apathy problem.
Government institutionalized [insert service here] quality sucks. Always has, always will.
If you want a good education for your kid, private school is where they should be.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 2:54:06 PM EDT
[#32]
Fuck all that.

If we want rockstar intellectual kids, we need them to be taught by intellectual rockstars.

Cap professional athlete salaries at 100k, use that money to pay for minimum 200k per school year teacher salaries.

Education will be a dumpster fire in this country until we start to prioritize it above professional sports and celebrities.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 3:00:28 PM EDT
[#33]
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Quoted:
Fuck all that.

If we want rockstar intellectual kids, we need them to be taught by intellectual rockstars.

Cap professional athlete salaries at 100k, use that money to pay for minimum 200k per school year teacher salaries.

Education will be a dumpster fire in this country until we start to prioritize it above professional sports and celebrities.
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The only way you can do that is to be stalin 2.0.

Or maybe pol pot or mao.

The devil in that idea is literally in the details of how you implement it - there is no way to do it without doing ...

You have to change the culture. That means changing what and how people think.

Which means you have to control the institutions that do that. Primary in that is family and parents.

Look at who and what movements are trying to subvert that. Go to work.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 3:03:42 PM EDT
[#34]
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My information is second-hand, at best, so I can't vouch for it's accuracy, although I have no reason not to trust the source.  

This was in a large high school and the story was that several male and female teachers were getting together and having orgies.  They supposedly wanted to get the principal involved, but I don't know if they ever approached him about it.  Supposedly they were talking about inviting some students and at the very least, students became aware and started discussing it, so the principle had to intervene.  I have no idea who the teachers were or how the principal handled it, but up until then, I didn't think stuff like that really happened.  
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My wife's friends reported a male coworker for being in a dark classroom, with a female student. When they entered the room, the two quickly moved apart and claimed the female was resting due to the stress of finals and her coach/ teacher was giving her a chance to do so while he did whatever. It had happened previously, but something about this instance made them even more unsettled than the rest.

Admin had the teachers immediately report it to CPS. Parents were surprised by CPS wanting to interview the girl, said it was no big deal, they'd even taken him on the girl's college visits that year.

CPS said no issue.

School told him cut that shit out and never be alone with another female student. Teacher/coach confronted reporting coworkers for injuring his career.

Kharn
My information is second-hand, at best, so I can't vouch for it's accuracy, although I have no reason not to trust the source.  

This was in a large high school and the story was that several male and female teachers were getting together and having orgies.  They supposedly wanted to get the principal involved, but I don't know if they ever approached him about it.  Supposedly they were talking about inviting some students and at the very least, students became aware and started discussing it, so the principle had to intervene.  I have no idea who the teachers were or how the principal handled it, but up until then, I didn't think stuff like that really happened.  

Wow... lets give the teachers raises! They definitely deserve it!
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 3:07:12 PM EDT
[#35]
A bit disappointed that I didn’t get in on this thread earlier.

A buddy of mine is a teacher at a good public school district in a high tax area. When we started hanging out he constantly bemoaned how little he got paid, how little his wife gets paid (also a teacher) how terrible kids are, pointing out how good I have it because my wife can stay home, blah, blah, blah.

Finally, after he texted me one time too many wanting to day drink in the summer, having forgotten what day it was and that I work 10+ hours most days, we did a little math. At the time he made exactly what I would make if I took the same summer break as he did. That was before he got his masters and received another 10-15% raise at the drop of a hat, which his district paid for. Since then, he has all but dropped it. Occasionally, when it does come up, he’s sure to say something about the summers off before I can.

I have zero sympathy for teachers. It’s never been a secret that they don’t get paid for 12 months of work. Nobody is forcing them into the job. It’s a choice based on a clear trade off.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 3:15:49 PM EDT
[#36]
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Quoted:

You are in Texas. Do you know who makes up the State Board of Education? The one you think is offering a "marxist tenet"?
The Texas SBOE has been overwhelming Republican for a half century.

Yet its largely Republicans bitching and whining about "marxist" bullshit.
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There is not a teacher pay problem.

The problem is that everyone has accepted the core marxist tenet of public state education.

You are in Texas. Do you know who makes up the State Board of Education? The one you think is offering a "marxist tenet"?
The Texas SBOE has been overwhelming Republican for a half century.

Yet its largely Republicans bitching and whining about "marxist" bullshit.
The UK is currently under "Conservative leadership".

The very same "Conservatives" who openly mock transgender ideology behind closed doors ( as a recently leaked audio recording revealed )... are more than willing to uphold the status quo of Law Enforcement visiting you at your home for making the same fucking jokes these "leaders" make behind closed doors.

Just because "Conservatives" are nominally in charge of an institution... doesn't mean that conservative shit is actually getting done. A lot of Conservatives are too pussified to *EVER* exercise any power to undo what the left has done.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 3:20:13 PM EDT
[#37]
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Quoted:
Fuck all that.

If we want rockstar intellectual kids, we need them to be taught by intellectual rockstars.

Cap professional athlete salaries at 100k, use that money to pay for minimum 200k per school year teacher salaries.

Education will be a dumpster fire in this country until we start to prioritize it above professional sports and celebrities.
View Quote
Fuck that.

I say we require extensive psychological exams, background checks, on teachers.
Teachers must be explicitly forbidden from espousing transgender ideology, far leftist ideology, or any kind of sexual grooming.
Any violation of any of that, and the lose their teaching license.

FWIW, I think the vast majority of teachers should be exiled from the country.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 5:31:07 PM EDT
[#38]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Pensions are a way to retain experienced employees.
When people used to bitch about poor pay I would remind them they would keep getting paid long after they retired whereas other people with no pension wouldn’t. That’s a HUGE hook to have in people.
View Quote

That and it creates mediocrity. Not all, but many know they can just "not get fired" for 25-30 years and get a pension. My whole family from WA state were in Education (some in CA). The work ethic is far different from today. Both my parents are from the silent generation and they simply kept to their values and worked. My father (now 88) has been drawing from his educational pension for over 30 years. That system can't sustain itself. Add in that our society is far more mobile and state pensions don't draw loyalty like they used to.

Pensions end up keeping risk-averse, yes men/women, and those not willing to make improvements by going against the status quo.

ROCK6
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 5:48:04 PM EDT
[#39]
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Quoted:


Teachers work 14 hour days?
View Quote


Between the work I do at home before going to work, the work I do at work, and what I do either at the school or home after-- frequently more. That doesn't even lay a finger on the work I get to do on weekends, holidays, and vacation days.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 5:58:48 PM EDT
[#40]
Tough subject to be sure.

So, my very unpopular opinion.

Teaching in the k-12 has never paid greatly.  I know it cost a lot to get the required credentials and the pay is certainly not offsetting the investment.  So that said, knowing this, why go into k-12?  Do you do it to give back?  Because you love the formative experience?  IDK, I am not a teacher.

But I also think that the whole "teachers are underpaid" is another narrative.  Not saying they are paid "well" but it is a known quantity going in, right?

Plenty of high paying jobs to be had with the same college investment as teaching it seems.  

This is certainly a paraphrase, but I am also not sure I agree with the argument to begin with.  

But then what do I know,I am not a teacher, lol.  

Though my work does expect I "Train" others in the discipline an knowledge I have accumulated over 30+ years.

Link Posted: 6/26/2023 5:59:46 PM EDT
[#41]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Between the work I do at home before going to work, the work I do at work, and what I do either at the school or home after-- frequently more. That doesn't even lay a finger on the work I get to do on weekends, holidays, and vacation days.
View Quote


Yeah whatever.

Just quit if it's so bad.  Or do you need access to other people's kids that badly?

Link Posted: 6/26/2023 6:04:33 PM EDT
[#42]
Teachers are generally paid fairly. If it's not acceptable, then find another line of work.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 6:05:58 PM EDT
[#43]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


There are no longer a surplus of teachers. 10 years ago? Sure. Now schools are lucky if they can fill all the spots. They will stop requiring 4 year degrees soon I think.
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In your state that may be true. But if you took two seconds to see the OP's state you would know he's in Texas.


And guess what? Texas has a shortage of teachers.


FFS.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 6:13:39 PM EDT
[#44]
My wife has been a teacher 23 years. Desantis said he needed to up teacher pay . New teachers now get paid $300 less a year than my wife with 23 years. Veterans teachers get crickets.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 6:15:17 PM EDT
[#45]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:

That and it creates mediocrity. Not all, but many know they can just "not get fired" for 25-30 years and get a pension. My whole family from WA state were in Education (some in CA). The work ethic is far different from today. Both my parents are from the silent generation and they simply kept to their values and worked. My father (now 88) has been drawing from his educational pension for over 30 years. That system can't sustain itself. Add in that our society is far more mobile and state pensions don't draw loyalty like they used to.

Pensions end up keeping risk-averse, yes men/women, and those not willing to make improvements by going against the status quo.

ROCK6
View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:
Pensions are a way to retain experienced employees.
When people used to bitch about poor pay I would remind them they would keep getting paid long after they retired whereas other people with no pension wouldn’t. That’s a HUGE hook to have in people.

That and it creates mediocrity. Not all, but many know they can just "not get fired" for 25-30 years and get a pension. My whole family from WA state were in Education (some in CA). The work ethic is far different from today. Both my parents are from the silent generation and they simply kept to their values and worked. My father (now 88) has been drawing from his educational pension for over 30 years. That system can't sustain itself. Add in that our society is far more mobile and state pensions don't draw loyalty like they used to.

Pensions end up keeping risk-averse, yes men/women, and those not willing to make improvements by going against the status quo.

ROCK6


I don’t disagree with that.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 6:15:38 PM EDT
[#46]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


No whining. She chose it. She can unchoose it. There is a huge surplus of unemployed teachers. Get rid of the unions and let the law of supply and demand work itself out. Nobody in education is entitled to shit. I was a teacher and administrator. My first job outside education doubled my income. I still had 25 years in education when I retired. I just refused to be in the public schools.
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Why get rid of the unions?  Think of the Union as a corporation and they are selling a product, teachers to teach.  Why go against the free market?
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 6:21:04 PM EDT
[#47]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
There isnt a teacher pay problem. Theres a parent apathy problem.
Government institutionalized [insert service here] quality sucks. Always has, always will.
If you want a good education for your kid, private school is where they should be.
View Quote


Exactly!
The reason we homeschooled the rest of our kids is the experience at Public schools

It really is just as equal a teacher apathy problem.
I am/was an involved parent with my kid in high school and met with each of my childs teachers
Our child would lie about projects so we went to each of the teachers to ask for help by letting us have a copy of the projects that he would be doing.
Out of 7 teachers, there were 2 that would help, the rest gave some pile of crap excuse.

I get tired of it being a parent problem when there are so few teachers that take their job seriously to educate.
Seems like the newer crop of teachers just want to indoctrinate into the homo theology.

How is that part a teachers description?

It is true that so many parents don't want to take responsibility for their kids education, but our tax dollars should not be taken from us if they are not going to actually educate.
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 6:24:03 PM EDT
[#48]
Teachers know what the pay is and has been going into that profession.

They also know what the teachers unions fund.

ZFG


Homeschool is what a lot of the conservative co-workers and other people I know with k-12 kids do now.  I think about 25% of my street home schools.  My wife will home school our grand kids when the time comes.    
Link Posted: 6/26/2023 6:50:36 PM EDT
[#49]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Yeah whatever.

Just quit if it's so bad.  Or do you need access to other people's kids that badly?

View Quote View All Quotes
View All Quotes
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:
Quoted:


Between the work I do at home before going to work, the work I do at work, and what I do either at the school or home after-- frequently more. That doesn't even lay a finger on the work I get to do on weekends, holidays, and vacation days.


Yeah whatever.

Just quit if it's so bad.  Or do you need access to other people's kids that badly?



As I've said several times- the money where I work is great. There's just a lot more that goes into it than the 1300 or so hours per SY that are covered by the contract.
At what most other places pay (including a lot of places here in Connecticut)-it certainly is not worth it.

Your veiled allegation is sick.

Link Posted: 6/26/2023 6:59:05 PM EDT
[#50]
Discussion ForumsJump to Quoted PostQuote History
Quoted:


Exactly!
The reason we homeschooled the rest of our kids is the experience at Public schools

It really is just as equal a teacher apathy problem.
I am/was an involved parent with my kid in high school and met with each of my childs teachers
Our child would lie about projects so we went to each of the teachers to ask for help by letting us have a copy of the projects that he would be doing.
Out of 7 teachers, there were 2 that would help, the rest gave some pile of crap excuse.

I get tired of it being a parent problem when there are so few teachers that take their job seriously to educate.
Seems like the newer crop of teachers just want to indoctrinate into the homo theology.

How is that part a teachers description?

It is true that so many parents don't want to take responsibility for their kids education, but our tax dollars should not be taken from us if they are not going to actually educate.
View Quote

Agreed. Vouchers should be given for those that put there kids in private schools where the best (and most highly paid) teachers can be found.
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