Are you accusing him and other teachers of being pedophiles?
If so, shame on you.

Username is appropriate.

<-------Has taught and coached in public and private schools for forty odd years and knows you don't know jack shit.

I used to teach in one of the best paying private placements in Connecticut. I got a 40% raise when I went to the public sector.

As I stated earlier, GD education threads: where people throw a fit about the state of education yet haven't the slightest idea of how any of it actually works.



I'll begin by stating I have no beef with private education or homeschooling - I attended both public and private schools myself throughout a couples decades of learning. I also am in favor of the voucher system for all so people can send their kids to schools with good teachers (or at least create competition that would improve the system and outcomes everywhere). Anyways...about those prestigious private schools...

LO fucking L. If you think the teachers in a private school are well educated, please know that they are not subject to licensure in most cases. In other words, anyone can teach there. As for private school pay, it is far worse than public school pay because they can. Why is the private school going to pay the same rates and bennies as public school when they can hire Billy and Susie's mom who is bored and conveniently lives across the street? "Oh wouldn't it be great to have sumer off with the kiddos, and we don't really care about the pay because it is rewarding and my hubby is the breadwinner anyways."

The actual qualified teachers in private schools are few and far between and are generally not concerned about the paycheck either or they wouldn't be there. That said, the pay also should be less as the job is easier because, SURPRISE, parents who send their kids to private schools actually give a shit about their kids' behavior and outcomes because they are paying for it. Some kids do much better because they are accountable to caring parents, while some are coddled and don't learn shit/have bad outcomes. FYI, the amount of scandalous behavior at private schools, including drugs, sex, cheating, favoritism, collusion, etc. is a function of the school culture - some private schools would make publics blush. Why? Because at a private school, things can get swept under the rug and disappeared pretty damn quick and easy if you know who to talk to and what strings to pull - gotta keep that tuition rolling in!

Seriously, this is widely/commonly known stuff.



If your child is lying that is an issue between you and the child. The teacher is not hired to discipline your child. If they do, most parents will flip out as their special crotch fruit can do no wrong. If your kid is a liar, you handle that at home and make lying an uncomfortable and undesirable choice. (Read up on behavior shaping/behavior tools for some strategies).

For the teachers that did go out of their way to help, good on the, and you should be thankful, they are not obligated to as they are now setting the precedent that they need to communicate with or make special accountability deals with every kid and parents out there. (An aside, the teacher could do away with any of these issues by posting the assignments online where it is your child or your responsibility to figure it out.)

Again, this is a cultural and societal issue - no accountability for kids or parents. If your kid is screwing off, the teacher cannot fix them. They can provide guidance and teach the content, but (no offense, seriously! ) the lying and resultant bad outcomes for your kid (or any of the other kids in the class, for that matter) are not their problem.


Here is some factual observation from my area and from others around the region:
-teacher pay is low compared to other fields, resulting in fewer people who want to teach. This results in larger classes and unfilled teaching positions. Larger classes provide less one to one time.
-districts need to fill positions somehow so they will hire anyone if they are in dire need, even getting a variance, meaning they can hired unlicensed individuals. Some of these individuals are capable, many are losers with a pulse who are there to make numbers look good and, as a bonus, they're cheap.
-the teacher shortage results in the good teachers getting screwed and the whackjobs getting away with whatever they want. The good teachers will do their job, get overloaded with shit tasks, and leave. The shitty ones will bitch and moan or claim special status so they can avoid doing work. In many cases, they district hop.
-an absolute SHITLOAD of money is being spent on unnecessary doodads and positions that don't accomplish anything. Assistant principals, admin assistants for each of them. Tech coordinators and assistants, plus all of the tech that each kid gets for free and destroys. Oh by the way, that tech needs to be replaced every two or three years. Textbooks- Pearson education and other similar corps are like the fucking mafia. Curriculum is unbelievably expensive, can't have kids using old books. Pro branded sports uniforms, field houses, stadiums, half a dozen meal options and the cooks to make them. A massive percentage of the school budget is shit that had nothing to do with learning and it is a direct mirror of society. Most people live a much larger lifestyle than they can afford and it is the same here as shitbag parents demand the best for their precious kiddos (who do little in school except fuck off on social media, start fights, and use drugs in the restrooms.)


I'd liken this to taking out your anger with the Supreme Court or congress on their aides, pages, etc. People up top talk a lot and don't accomplish shit, but there is a large group below them that actually does all of the work.

Not reading through 8 pages but I think everyone, especially teachers, fail to grasp just how much their pensions are worth.

Teachers in CO get about 62.5% of the average of the 4 highest pay years for life.

So $50k salary gets you a pension of $31250 / year. If you draw that for 35 years that's worth over $1 MM lifetime benefits. The present value of that is over $511k. If the person had worked for 25 years thats roughly equivalent to getting an extra $20k per year in benefits. They get all this by contributing 8% of their salary towards their pension benefits. Do you think most people who earn a lifetime max of $50k and save 8% are able to accumulate over $1MM in their 401k? Nope.

The problem that a lot of them get paid too much and do a shitty job, or tye problem that a lot of them get paid to teach and instead they are indoctrinating kids to be Leftist activists?

And if it is true it sounds like some bad decisions are being made.

School vouchers? While we're at it, why don't we hand out car payment vouchers to people who don't want to ride public transportation?

A lot of new hires are overpaid, compensated nearly as well as teachers with 10 or even 20 years of experience, regardless of performance, because of the shortage and a need to fill positions. That really causes problems for experienced and well qualified staff whose pay has not increased with inflation. Imagine working somewhere for 10 to 20 years and a new guy with no experience shows up and gets paid almost the same. Are there leftists? Absolutely, just as there is anywhere else. Do they get away with a ton of stuff they shouldn't? Yes they do, there is very little accountability anywhere these days - this is not limited solely to schools.

To add to my observations from yesterday...

-leftists and bad teachers are protected by unions. Unions have to expand to get more money so they expand to cover newer, less experienced, and unlicensed teachers. This makes the good teachers look bad.

-there are a ton of good teachers who wish the unions would go away forever. Unfortunately, the union is like the mafia. Non members have a target on their backs and get zero protection if anything bad happens, which is increasing in regularity as society blames the teachers for terrible students and non-existant parenting. Using common sense: if nobody got special protection from paying the union racket, would they do it? Good teachers get shit on and pay up while bad ones get protected. Firing is an HR nightmare due , mostly, to unions. Again, not different than nearly any other industry.

-students make up tons of stuff against anyone they don't like. Reasons could be the teacher holds you accountable, writes you up, fails you, gives out too much homework, is a subject you dont like, is a race you don't like, etc. This usually happens to goodteachers because the provide accountability. The kids like the bad teachers because they dont make them do or learn anything. Kids don't want to think, thinking is hard. Kids want easy street with a side of action and drama. Verbal and physical threats, rumors, accusations of all kinds of sick stuff and nothing happens to them because the parents throw a tantrum. This usually works out well for them, because...

-admins in general are pretty spineless. Part of this is because of modern snowflake society and part is due to legal changes. Even when they can act, they often don't as they know there will be no change in outcome. This is is highly unacceptable but is reality. Much of the discipline applied in the past isn't even legal anymore. I'm not referring to paddles, but even suspensions or expulsions. Depending on the state laws, some kids can do nearly anything and the school's hands are tied. The only surefire way to get a kid in deep shit anymore is legal action. Unless the action was directed at the district and not an individual student or teacher, they will not press charges. You as a parent or staff member need to pursue legal action outside of the school. Is it right? No, but again, that is the legal reality in 2023.

-speaking of bad kids not getting disciplined, the rules change even further for behavioral students. Try to get a special education student expelled - and behavior is a diagnosable special education disability these days. Again, is it right? Absolutely not, but the schools (especially teachers) don't make the laws.  Speaking of special education...

-people flip out about the amount of money that gets dumped on special education. It IS a shitload, no doubt. Now, with thet said, it isn't taking anything away from other kids because it s coming from a different pot. In the states that I am aware of, special education funding is not local district taxpayer money. So, disabled kids are not sucking up more resources or dragging other kids down. Your tax dollars do go to pay for it, but it is not coming out of local school funding. All of the services they get, whether specialized academic instruction, help with life skills, or toileting assistance, is billed using time studies and all at different rates. So, in short, you can be upset about how your tax dollars are spent, but it isn't your school choosing to spend it that way as the money isn't local. Again, it may be different in some other places but that is the law in the states I have knowledge of.

I could go on all day but I also recognize that the facts/reality is not what GD wants to hear. That's fine, but putting your fingers in your ears and repeating lalalala isn't helping your comprehension of the situation or the future of our children or country. In other words, if you don't like what is going on, seek to change it instead of having a tantrum on a topic you don't understand (and, in many cases here, displaying ignorance/showing your ass).

Here is a 100% serious offer: if anyone has questions about how things work from a disciplinary, monetary, legal etc. standpoint in districts, please ask and I will do all I can to answer your questions in great detail.

Should you be angry about the state of education? Absolutely. I want to make that 100% clear. Is it inexcusable and doing a disservice to children? Yes. Is it the average teacher's fault? Unequivocally NO.

The wheels fell off a long time ago, but that doesn't mean you just give up and throw a fit. It's long past time to fix these issues - and they can be fixed. The "simple" answer of "go to private schools" or homeschooling may be right for you and yours but is so shortsighted on a macro level that it is laughable.

Another offer: if anyone actually wants to discuss how to start fixing these issues, I can provide suggestions, and lots of them. I do not wish to do so if it is a waste of my time. For the future of our country and your children/grandchildren, fixing the education system is a no brainer.

ETA: fixed a few typos but surely there are more, mobile posting isn't great.

Here's a simple fix for the corrupt liberal union parasite infested government funded public education bureaucracy.

Our Grandkids are home schooled.

Fuck your "education" system.

Another who didn't read.
Attached File


It's not "mine" and it's not yours, it is all of ours whether we want it to be or not. Even if you "opt out" by going private you're still going to live with the societal consequences that got us here in the first place.

Imagine applying some of the anger of GD to fixing societal problems instead of posting without comprehension.

ETA: the edit to add "fuck your education system" as if I am part of the problem was a nice touch. I'm not here going to bat for dumbasses and leftists, the public education system infuriates me to no end. However, unlike the vast majority in this thread, I am quite well informed.

Yet you reside in California. Home of shitheads.
Wow. Just when I thought this thread could not get stupider. It's approaching epic stupidity.

It's not anger. It's chickenshits parroting talking points they read off some blog.
If they were really concerned about the state of education in America they could effect change.
Be active in your child's school and school district.
Become a teacher and put your $$$ where your mouth is. Damn few reading this thread want to do that. Probably would cite "low pay" as the reason.

My guess is it isn't low pay keeping them away, but utter lack of any qualifications whatsoever.

I don't think there is a problem. I think its a myth created by popular narrative by teachers, unions, democrats, and the media.

Pay does vary with area so I realize there is some areas they appear to be underpaid a bit but in other areas they are overpaid. I don't think the overall median or average wage is an unreasonable wage for what they do. It is generally indoors, safe, and not physically demanding.

Getting a good portion of the summer and all the other breaks during the school year off does count for something, as well as the state retirement package. You can't compare only the wage when you are getting a lot more days off and in many (most?) states a solid pension.

They like to complain a lot about how bad they have it and how underpaid they are but they signed up for it, if it is so bad then quit.

That doesn't even get into the fact the vast majority are liberals, often time activists or pushing left wing propaganda on the kids. Considering that I'd say they are getting far more then they are worth. I recognize they aren't all liberals, but its fairly obvious the majority are.

Cut basketball, football, and baseball, why should my tax dollars subsidize the pros or colleges that make millions if not billions. Until they start cutting states checks.

That's your own damn fault. When did you last run for your local school board? When did you last speak before the school board during its weekly meeting?

School sports enjoys such tremendous support among parents and students that doing away with it isn't going to happen.

Private schools only attract good teachers because the kids can be fired from the school for bad parent or child behavior. This drastically changes the amount of misery you need to deal with.

And their own kids usually get a massive tuition discount to go there. If the private school is a good one that the family wants their kids to attend, that can be worth more than the salary.

I can personally attest to the truth of much of what @LeadBreakfast has said.

Admin is bloated and worthless, lots of new do-nothing jobs at both the building and district level.

If a kid is a serious problem, like physically hurting others kids, it won’t matter how many times or how many parents complain. Especially if the kid has an IEP and/or isn’t white. Protective order and juvenile delinquency petitions are the only way to force anything, and you as the parent have to organize and pursue that - the school will do nothing.

This is indeed an area where private schools are better - if you’re a problem child, you’re gone unless there’s a building donated by your family. And even that has limits.

Hit a nerve huh?

I actually agree, but it's time for those pro sports billionaires to pay for their farm teams, that is feeding their machine. Oh and I have served 2 terms on our school board and I spoke not 3 months ago. You?

So again why should my taxes subsidize billion dollar industries?

Most school systems are bloated, most coaches are over paid compared to the teachers.

Most states need to close smaller schools and combine them with either larger schools or combine smaller schools. I seen small towns in Texas and oklahoma, that are less than a mile apart maintain two different districts. That's idiotic, if they combined, that would save 200k just on a superintendent, they could easily lose 2 principles that's 240k, coaches probably another 200k, busing probably 100k plus, they could probably save 100k plus in utilities and so much more. Then there's also the administration bloat, land and facilities that could be sold off for even more savings.

Coaches being overpaid must be a Texas thing, and then mostly for football.

Coaches in the three states I’ve lived in are paid peanuts as part-timers, a lot of them are teachers.

Superintendents are wildly overcompensated in my area. $350K salary, massive car allowance, and all they seem to do is travel around for photo ops and nod at board meetings. Worthless.

Well, where do you think they go?
Many years ago I taught at a small private school K-12.
About half the 8-12th were there because they had been kicked out of public schools in the area. At least two were on their third private school. (oddly never a problem in my class)

The problem is not with teachers it's with the corrupt administrators and department of Education.  They are the ones taking all the money. The local School District Administrator where I live makes 220,000 a year.

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Your taxes aren't subsidizing billion dollar industries anymore than the kids taking AP Calc are subsidizing Toyota, Frito Lay or FedEx.

I've coached for over forty years and agree that school sports are overemphasized.

I actually hate the idea of pedo teachers carrying guns in school.

The thought that they would force kids at gunpoint to perform on them is sad - but the next logical step for the NEA


Teachers get WAY too much credit for what they actually do.

They usually end up in a shittier private school. I’ve seen multiple examples of this just in the last couple years in my area. Kid in one of the top tier private schools has behavioral issues, somehow ends up at a tier 2 school.

That's just it. You can't get kicked out of public school anymore.

It is almost impossible these days unless you do something that causes you to be incarcerated anyway.

Year round school would be just fine with the working parents, if anything lessen the curriculum during traditional off time and remove attendance requirement a and make them day camp counselors that specialize in different areas, stem, sports, math, reading, etc.

They get paid pretty decently to work year round and get like 4-5 months off as it is.

Compare teachers parking lot versus parking lot at big box store or average business… there are usually nicer cars in school parking lot.

School voucher program for the win. Let parents decide where to send their kids. Make the schools compete for students.

Coach salary bloat must be regional to football in the South, most places and sports have difficulty recruiting coaches because, when all said and done, it is hundreds of hours for a few thousand bucks. The good family values type stuff aren't trading family time to go play on a football field for 3 months straight all fall, or basketball games and getting home at 11pm, for peanuts.

As for district consolidation, ask the constituents and I'll bet the percentage who want that is exceedingly low. MUH TRADITION! WE HATE THOSE GUYS! JUST THINK ABOUT WHAT IT WOULD DO TO OUR TOWN! I've watched thst happens personally in a ton of rural districts when 2,3 or more towns combine. People from the town with the first building to close get pissed because "DEY TOOK ERR SKOOL!" and then send their kids to the next district over who will do the same thing or maybe already has so "it's better there" because they don't know any different. Grass is always greener, etc.

Efficiency in buildings and staffing are a massive contributor to fiscal waste, probably #1 in most districts. Try to clean it up and tighten things up and people have a fit, but they don't want to pay taxes either. Nothing is free. (For the record, nobody should, be paying taxes anyways, but since that is how the government is funded, it isn't the school's fault). Now if tne school board is not fiscally responsible, that is a different conversation.

Examples?




Uh, coaches ARE teachers. They get a stipend because they work more days and longer days. Surely you know this?



Yet their voters choose that.




<----teaches in Plano.

Where is this "bloat"?
I don't just teach here, I live here and pay taxes here. If there was a bloated administration I would be bitching about it. We don't have "bloat" because we cannot afford it. This year Plano ISD will send $248 million dollars back to the state of Texas. $248 million that could be spent here on Plano kids, Plano teachers and Plano schools. Our bloat would be our own decision.

I want my property tax $$$$ staying here in Plano and not being sent to other school districts. Yet our Republican governor, Republican Senate and Republican House can't figure out a damn thing about school finance.

In Texas, all high school coaches must be full-time employees of the school district. But a retired
teacher/administrator who has 20 or more years of experience may serve as an assistant coach in all athletics and as
a head coach for golf, tennis, team tennis, cross country, track and field, and swimming.

Admins make a lot of money in many places for an increasing smaller list of duties, spread across a greater number of admins.

True story that I saw play out first hand: one large district hired a assistant principal to replace one that was retiring THE NEXT YEAR. One of the four assistant pricipals under the main principal, despitete fact that all were fully licensed. Paid him, a kid straight out of college plus a year or two for admin licensure, over 100k plus bennies (figure 150k-ish total) to watch the old assistant principal so he could learn and stand in the halls between classes. He had never worked in a school prior and got paid a whole year to do jack and shit.

There is a perfect example of the waste. 6 full time principals doing a job that should have been handled by two or perhaps three (it is a large district).

None of it had to do with teachers.

They sure as hell can. At the very least removed from their current campus placement and sent to either an alternative classroom or campus.

Free market?  Gubmint schools  are far from a free market.

Funny, the teachers union never mentions this and leaves it out of any discussion.

I honestly have no idea what the principal at my local public elementary school does. She’s often not even there, and the AP deals with everything. There’s 2 FT counselors and a “student support teacher” (whatever the fuck that is) … at an ES of 500 kids.

They just get transferred to another school, to then cause problems there, and then only after you get the courts involved and the county offers that to placate you. They just make the kid someone else’s problem.

Yeah, don't read what I fucking posted.

An expelled student doesn't just get "transferred to another school".

I don't think you know the definition of the word "expelled".

What you posted is, as a practical matter, bullshit. You’re not getting “expelled” these days, as in “no longer receiving free and appropriate public schooling,” unless you’re in juvenile detention for a major crime.

I’m sure as a teacher you think you know it all on this one - but you clearly have zero recent experience on the legal side of it.

1. I posted what Texas law requires.
2. I am fully aware of FAPE.
3. Expulsion happens and has happened this year in my district.
4. Students in juvenile detention still receive FAPE.

What happens when someone is expelled ? Does that affect them going to another school and how so ?

I think that would be up to the other school district. In our district an expelled student cannot enroll at another one of our campuses.

So its basically a ban on that district. Is there a way for them ever to come back after a period of time or is it just done for life don't come back ?

How does your district deal with prospective students that may have been expelled from other districts ?

I believe the expulsion proceedings will dictate if permanent or if there is a possibility of reenrollment in the future.




Sorry, no idea.

Expelled means gone from district, does not prevent them from going to another. In some states, schools cannot refuse to enroll a student regardless of their expulsions from other districts or any other reason. Basically have to take them and they're your problem now.