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Posted: 9/8/2019 2:23:33 AM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So you are saying you spoke to an officer? Like actually talked to him? Haven't you read the GD advise to never talk to the cops? How come you didn't ask for your lawyer? Unfortunately, we seem to have a fairly even split between the typical GD response of "Never talk to the cops" and the equivalent LEO response of "Argue it in court". We have one side that refuses to talk, one side that refuses to listen, and then oddballs like me that think a civil discussion can often be very beneficial for both parties involved. 
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Posted: 9/8/2019 2:28:48 AM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Yes, I spoke directly to an officer, exactly as normal adults used to talk with each other. Unfortunately, we seem to have a fairly even split between the typical GD response of "Never talk to the cops" and the equivalent LEO response of "Argue it in court". We have one side that refuses to talk, one side that refuses to listen, and then oddballs like me that think a civil discussion can often be very beneficial for both parties involved. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: So you are saying you spoke to an officer? Like actually talked to him? Haven't you read the GD advise to never talk to the cops? How come you didn't ask for your lawyer? Unfortunately, we seem to have a fairly even split between the typical GD response of "Never talk to the cops" and the equivalent LEO response of "Argue it in court". We have one side that refuses to talk, one side that refuses to listen, and then oddballs like me that think a civil discussion can often be very beneficial for both parties involved. Just a side note....if one side refuses to talk, there's nothing to listen to. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 9:09:51 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Do you have some point you are trying to make of do you like to just hear yourself talk? How about making it in less than 50 words? With that said, when replying to YOU, I will make an attempt to keep my replies brief. ^---- That's 43 words, by the way. 
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Posted: 9/8/2019 9:16:37 AM EDT
[#4]
Did not read the thread, so lemme guess: People who can't understand how we've gotten where we are with regards to our gun rights are cheering for the state?
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Posted: 9/8/2019 9:21:11 AM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You just blew the minds of certain people on this site. Just a side note....if one side refuses to talk, there's nothing to listen to. It does not mean "Never utter a syllable towards a LEO under any circumstance, ever." It means do not speak to an officer who is investigating you for a crime without speaking with legal representation first. You cannot talk yourself out of jail but you can certainly talk yourself into it. ^--- 64 words and an emoji. Well, 14 extra words shouldn't break the bank. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 9:21:52 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Did not read the thread, so lemme guess: People who can't understand how we've gotten where we are with regards to our gun rights are cheering for the state? And the enforcers of these laws, at least some of them, are cheering them because it makes their job easier. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 9:26:15 AM EDT
[#7]
I would have yanked him for being such a slob.
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Posted: 9/8/2019 11:25:52 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
It wouldn't do me much good to post these replies if it was in service of hearing myself talk (I don't narrate aloud when I type). With that said, when replying to YOU, I will make an attempt to keep my replies brief. ^---- That's 43 words, by the way. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 11:27:07 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
As are many in law enforcement. That's the nature of the beast when your statutes are as massive and voluminous as ours are while being constantly updated and expanded. There are more than a few situations where cops don't understand what the law says and just arrest the person only to let the courts sort it out. Oddly enough, or maybe not, that sentiment, or one close to it, has been expressed in this thread. Edit: More to his point which you missed, or just ignored, when someone actually takes the time to read the law, to study the law, understand the law, and abide by the letter of that law only to be subsequently arrested by an officer who hasn't read the law, doesn't know the law, and doesn't care to try, only to be released later once an officer with an IQ above room temperature gets his hands on it or once the courts have sorted it out, that leaves a bad taste in a person's mouth. You may not have experienced that however other people have. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Average John A Public is ignorant of the laws and how they work. This thread proves that. There are more than a few situations where cops don't understand what the law says and just arrest the person only to let the courts sort it out. Oddly enough, or maybe not, that sentiment, or one close to it, has been expressed in this thread. Edit: More to his point which you missed, or just ignored, when someone actually takes the time to read the law, to study the law, understand the law, and abide by the letter of that law only to be subsequently arrested by an officer who hasn't read the law, doesn't know the law, and doesn't care to try, only to be released later once an officer with an IQ above room temperature gets his hands on it or once the courts have sorted it out, that leaves a bad taste in a person's mouth. You may not have experienced that however other people have. Labor laws isn't one of them. That was the crux of my reply, which you apparently missed. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 12:38:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Didn't think so. I have no clue what you are talking about.
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Posted: 9/8/2019 12:49:04 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I know what I have authority over and what I don't. Labor laws isn't one of them. That was the crux of my reply, which you apparently missed. Yeah, it was fairly obvious you were saying state and local law enforcement can't enforce federal laws. The problem is that wasn't his point. You response overlooked the core of his argument and focused, instead, on one silly issue. Or do you think federal law enforcement do not qualify as law enforcement? I mean, he even mentioned the FBI, a federal agency, in his post.
Edit: Before anyone is inclined to play the "BS gotcha game," my comment was directed towards TEXASROOTERSBROTHER on page 6 and not your original response to alatenn on page 1. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 1:16:24 PM EDT
[#12]
Once you refuse to cooperate with a cop, such as refuse to show ID and insurance which you're required to do, you open yourself to further scrutiny. Who doesn't know this?? No one. Everyone knows you dont poke the bear.
Why escalate the encounter? It seems some people are just wanting a confrontation/conflict. Makes no sense to me to do that. Everyone Ive ever met that wants to buck the system is angry, bitter or damaged somehow. Ive been pulled over several times over the course of 30yrs for little screw ups: rolled through a stop sign, more than one lane change at a time, illegal u-turn, etc.... Pulled over immediately, cooperated with the cop, "yes sir" "no sir". let go with a warning. Every. Fucking. Time. So this guy did have warrants huh? Figures. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 1:39:34 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The amount of fugitives with felony warrants and other criminals pulled over for traffic stops is staggering. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I for one am glad Tahlequah has solved all of its other crime problems and can devote multiple officers and emergency personnel to petty traffic stops. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 2:31:20 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Had a tire customer the other day. Wanted 2 tires on an all wheel drive, we told him awd requires replacing all 4 or nothing. Dealer backed it up when called. Installed 4, his check wouldn't go through. He got pissy and started making threats, police were called. Police arrived and he had a warrant. Then they found his pocketful of meth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I for one am glad Tahlequah has solved all of its other crime problems and can devote multiple officers and emergency personnel to petty traffic stops. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 2:39:05 PM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No, I do care about seatbelt laws. Generally the lawful traffic stop and warning are enough to change the motorists behavior for a while. (will wear seat belt). I have been to a few fatality accidents that would've absolutely resulted in minor injuries IF the motorist wore their seatbelt. But if the law was removed, it wouldn't hurt my feelings either. I'm all for individual liberties and accepting the responsibility of your own choices (in this case, not wearing a seat belt), but it sure sucks notifying a family of their deceased family member when a seatbelt would've saved them. ... but you made a point of agreeing with the guy who said stops for nitpicking things like out of date tags were a good thing because it gave the police a random opportune chance to stop Timothy McVeigh. So which is it? Are seatbelt laws a bad thing because they infringe on personal liberty to engage in personally risky behavior or are they a good thing because they increase the number of overall stops and therefore increase the likelihood of catching bad guys? Not trying to be a dick here, but you've made two points that seem to contradict eachother. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 2:42:14 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Those cops were just fishing. Obviously they chose to harass that poor man instead of going after real criminals and ignoring a ton of armed robberies, murders and rape. I hope the meth generated revenue for the King’s men. And you should have just minded your own business. How’s the boot polish taste? May your chains rest lightly. Meanwhile Hillary Clinton is smuggling in millions of illegal pedophiles from Jeffery Epstein’s private island under the guise of red flag laws. This is why the average citizen is so against police. Business has the right to conduct their business their way. Customer had the right to go somewhere else if he didnt like it. He didnt. Instead he chose to accept 4 tires then wrote a bad check THEN made threats which promted a call to the cops.... and Im sure methhead was civil then? And OPs the problem? 
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Posted: 9/8/2019 3:17:23 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Not sure if serious. Business has the right to conduct their business their way. Customer had the right to go somewhere else if he didnt like it. He didnt. Instead he chose to accept 4 tires then wrote a bad check THEN made threats which promted a call to the cops.... and Im sure methhead was civil then? And OPs the problem? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Those cops were just fishing. Obviously they chose to harass that poor man instead of going after real criminals and ignoring a ton of armed robberies, murders and rape. I hope the meth generated revenue for the King’s men. And you should have just minded your own business. How’s the boot polish taste? May your chains rest lightly. Meanwhile Hillary Clinton is smuggling in millions of illegal pedophiles from Jeffery Epstein’s private island under the guise of red flag laws. This is why the average citizen is so against police. Business has the right to conduct their business their way. Customer had the right to go somewhere else if he didnt like it. He didnt. Instead he chose to accept 4 tires then wrote a bad check THEN made threats which promted a call to the cops.... and Im sure methhead was civil then? And OPs the problem? |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 3:42:11 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the fact you can’t determine if what I wrote was serious or not and still responded to it as if it were serious is an excellent demonstration of how moronic and idiotic the arguments against the officers actions are. Thank you for that. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 3:48:46 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your state doesn't have any labor laws with criminal penalties? That's interesting. Yeah, it was fairly obvious you were saying state and local law enforcement can't enforce federal laws. The problem is that wasn't his point. You response overlooked the core of his argument and focused, instead, on one silly issue. Or do you think federal law enforcement do not qualify as law enforcement? I mean, he even mentioned the FBI, a federal agency, in his post.
Edit: Before anyone is inclined to play the "BS gotcha game," my comment was directed towards TEXASROOTERSBROTHER on page 6 and not your original response to alatenn on page 1. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I know what I have authority over and what I don't. Labor laws isn't one of them. That was the crux of my reply, which you apparently missed. Yeah, it was fairly obvious you were saying state and local law enforcement can't enforce federal laws. The problem is that wasn't his point. You response overlooked the core of his argument and focused, instead, on one silly issue. Or do you think federal law enforcement do not qualify as law enforcement? I mean, he even mentioned the FBI, a federal agency, in his post.
Edit: Before anyone is inclined to play the "BS gotcha game," my comment was directed towards TEXASROOTERSBROTHER on page 6 and not your original response to alatenn on page 1. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 3:52:25 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey man, anything I can do to help! Thats what boom_stick brings to the table..... reverse strawman??? I dunno Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
I think the fact you can’t determine if what I wrote was serious or not and still responded to it as if it were serious is an excellent demonstration of how moronic and idiotic the arguments against the officers actions are. Thank you for that. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 4:12:07 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the fact you can't determine if what I wrote was serious or not and still responded to it as if it were serious is an excellent demonstration of how moronic and idiotic the arguments against the officers actions are. Thank you for that. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 4:12:20 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, find a few labor laws that local cops would enforce. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 4:14:12 PM EDT
[#23]
Seat belt and other personal safety laws are ridiculous. I see no reason to regulate what people do in their own vehicle be it a seat belt in a car or helmet on a motorcycle. Your choice for either effects no one else. You either want the nanny State or you don't.
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Posted: 9/8/2019 4:23:13 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, find a few labor laws that local cops would enforce. Well, if you're in New Jersey, you do. They have at least one statute that rises to the level of a misdemeanor that carries with it the potential of jail time. Who enforces that if not law enforcement in your state? The post office? |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 4:31:42 PM EDT
[#25]
When D bags collide.
Just send a ticket in the mail. Why give a fuck? When they ignore the ticket, arrest them at a store. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 4:32:19 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We can enforce labor laws now? All RIGHT! How much revenue do you think can we generate from labor law enforcement?
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Posted: 9/8/2019 4:41:00 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Your state doesn't have labor laws that are enforced, ultimately, by law enforcement? Well, if you're in New Jersey, you do. They have at least one statute that rises to the level of a misdemeanor that carries with it the potential of jail time. Who enforces that if not law enforcement in your state? The post office? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Ok, find a few labor laws that local cops would enforce. Well, if you're in New Jersey, you do. They have at least one statute that rises to the level of a misdemeanor that carries with it the potential of jail time. Who enforces that if not law enforcement in your state? The post office? You keep missing the key terms... |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 4:48:12 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Key phrase "local cops". You keep missing the key terms... Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: Ok, find a few labor laws that local cops would enforce. Well, if you're in New Jersey, you do. They have at least one statute that rises to the level of a misdemeanor that carries with it the potential of jail time. Who enforces that if not law enforcement in your state? The post office? You keep missing the key terms... 
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Posted: 9/8/2019 4:49:31 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Key phrase "local cops". You keep missing the key terms... Ignoring for a second the fact that local cops will sometimes accompany state and federal officers enforcing those laws, I don't have to alter my past statements because you want to play games to avoid admitting not knowing what the hell you were talking about.
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Posted: 9/8/2019 4:50:28 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Hey at least he stopped writing book length fictional replies
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Posted: 9/8/2019 4:52:44 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Jesus that cop had the patience of Job. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 4:53:42 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Go apply at your local PD and go change the world there tiger. I'm rooting for you. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 4:53:50 PM EDT
[#33]
I do not wear a seat belt because I am an adult and choose to either wear it or not. I know the consequences and I have taken steps to ensure my family will be taken care of financially if something bad does happen.
I don't argue with the cop if I am pulled over, I am polite and chat with them. If I get a ticket I will still tell the officer to have a good day and to be safe out there. I pay it and move on and its cheaper for me to take the ticket and pay it than to go to court and come up with some stupid bullshit saying I am innocent like I have seen in the past. Some of these people are just looking for conflict. They want it and when they get it then they are the victim. Fuck that noise, I want as little stress in my life as possible. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 4:59:58 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
do they really need the fire dept to bust the window? don't all LEO have a baton thingy? Quote HistoryQuoted:
do they really need the fire dept to bust the window? don't all LEO have a baton thingy? Quoted:
Remember when those pushing for seat belt laws swore they would never be used as primary for a stop? 
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Posted: 9/8/2019 5:04:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I didn't miss anything. I said law enforcement and you said local cops. Ignoring for a second the fact that local cops will sometimes accompany state and federal officers enforcing those laws, I don't have to alter my past statements because you want to play games to avoid admitting not knowing what the hell you were talking about. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Key phrase "local cops". You keep missing the key terms... Ignoring for a second the fact that local cops will sometimes accompany state and federal officers enforcing those laws, I don't have to alter my past statements because you want to play games to avoid admitting not knowing what the hell you were talking about. Quoted:
Quoted: I don't think you understand that cops don't enforce federal law. The point he is making is that your average, ordinary, law-abidingish American gets a bit jaded and pissed when they see serious crimes go ignored or willfully unenforced while John Q. Public gets the book thrown at him; especially for trivial bullshit such as driving without a seat belt. How on earth did you miss that? |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 5:09:44 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That, I believe, ended when the feds threatened to start withholding highway monies. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: They WILL write you a ticket in Mi. Hell, occasionally they stand on a street corner with a stop sign or light and radio ahead for a cruiser to stop you when they do a sting. Easy $$$$$$. Both the top cops and legasslatures swore it would never, EVER be a primary offense. That lasted until the second it was passed. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 5:11:57 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ok, find a few labor laws that local cops would enforce. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 5:16:56 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
New Jersey has no State labor laws of it's own? I find that difficult to believe. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Ok, find a few labor laws that local cops would enforce. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 7:17:49 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The IRS fishes. A lot. Why do I have the suspicion you would be singing a different tune if it was a Revenue agent casting his line your way rather than a patrol officer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: I think the fact you can't determine if what I wrote was serious or not and still responded to it as if it were serious is an excellent demonstration of how moronic and idiotic the arguments against the officers actions are. Thank you for that. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 8:46:04 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Sovereign-citizen-gets-pulled-over-for-seat-belt-violation/5-2252891/?page=6#i80827986 I originally responded to this, and you mentioned local. Quote HistoryQuoted: https://www.ar15.com/forums/General/Sovereign-citizen-gets-pulled-over-for-seat-belt-violation/5-2252891/?page=6#i80827986 I originally responded to this, and you mentioned local. Read, probably for the first time, the words emphasized in bold and red. Quoted: Of course he understands that state and local law enforcement can't enforce federal laws. That isn't the point he is making. The point he is making is that your average, ordinary, law-abidingish American gets a bit jaded and pissed when they see serious crimes go ignored or willfully unenforced while John Q. Public gets the book thrown at him; especially for trivial bullshit such as driving without a seat belt. How on earth did you miss that? As far as I know, he did NOT say that your local meter maid was supposed to deport illegal aliens. I did not say that your local meter maid was supposed to deport illegal aliens. His point, which you missed completely and thoroughly, is that people do not like the appearance of unjust weights and measures. That's it and that's all. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 8:55:31 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We can all agree that you don't know what you're talking about when it comes to criminal patrol. Let's just leave it at that. Be specific and show your work. I'm willing to bet you haven't even read a sentence of what I have written let alone know what I have been saying. Hell, I've already had a conversation with two others who didn't find it necessary to read what others posted before they responded so I wouldn't be surprised.
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Posted: 9/8/2019 9:02:03 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Had a tire customer the other day. Wanted 2 tires on an all wheel drive, we told him awd requires replacing all 4 or nothing. Dealer backed it up when called. Installed 4, his check wouldn't go through. He got pissy and started making threats, police were called. Police arrived and he had a warrant. Then they found his pocketful of meth. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
I for one am glad Tahlequah has solved all of its other crime problems and can devote multiple officers and emergency personnel to petty traffic stops. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 9:05:38 PM EDT
[#43]
Not a fan of police, unless I need one but that was a good window smash.
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Posted: 9/8/2019 9:05:55 PM EDT
[#44]
We're going to keep you safe by making you pay us money. What, you don't want to pay us money for pulling you over? We will break your window, pull you through the glass, and shove you to the ground and arrest you.
How about a fucking "hey dude, I pulled you over to remind you to buckle your seat belt. Have a nice day!" |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 9:12:10 PM EDT
[#45]
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Posted: 9/8/2019 9:13:39 PM EDT
[#46]
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Posted: 9/8/2019 9:15:52 PM EDT
[#47]
 
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Posted: 9/8/2019 9:18:18 PM EDT
[#48]
Yeah, a guy traveling without all the papers required, and God forbid, without a seat belt.
A real threat to me and to the society. Turn him over to the precrime unit. 
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Posted: 9/8/2019 9:19:33 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We're going to keep you safe by making you pay us money. What, you don't want to pay us money for pulling you over? We will break your window, pull you through the glass, and shove you to the ground and arrest you. How about a fucking "hey dude, I pulled you over to remind you to buckle your seat belt. Have a nice day!" Gotta shoot them to keep from committing suicide. |
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Posted: 9/8/2019 9:34:57 PM EDT
[#50]
Thanks op. Warms my heart
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