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Posted: 10/27/2016 11:28:03 PM EDT
[#1]
The genius of the SSME was that it was reusable. Well, sorta. The rebuilding it required after each flight cost more than an entirely new engine, so they were only reusable in the sense that if you didn't give a damn about the American taxpayer they were reusable.
Your shuttle cynicism for the day. 
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Posted: 10/28/2016 4:37:38 PM EDT
[#2]
Good day today.
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Posted: 10/28/2016 6:56:50 PM EDT
[#3]
Update 10/28
After a frustrating week of starting over many times on different subprojects, today things came together. Students accomplished much. I could see pride from many of them over their successes today.
It was a good day.
We started with more details being laid out . 
Students closed the gap between the doors with some thin strips. We hope to bring in some soft foam insulation to mate them up. 
For the bells, after a 6th failure at the start of the day, we adapted our method . Lots of different length pieces seems to work. I like how it turned out. With some caulking, I think these will be acceptable. I have one dedicated student that has taken this on. She will finish them all the way through. She was down in my room 3hrs today working on these. 
Major work getting finished on the cowlings and "OMS"? 
One group was working on the seams between the cowlings and fuselage, the other group was finishing up the OMS pods. 
This fine young lady is always leaving me a selfie when I happen to leave my phone unattended . I didn't even find them till after school. She's a funny kid, stepdaughter to a former student, and part of Sparks556's clan, that I've been adopted into. 
We got the top of the wings caulked today. 
Then there's the wing edge. These guys showed up at 7am this morning to get going on trying to finish it up. Here they are plotting the final tip completion and how best to deliver success. The spray foam was a big hit, and seemed to really help strengthen the edge. 
There are a few malformations, but over all, I think it turned out pretty good. 
They insisted I get a photo of them with their work.
Now they just have to repeat the results on the other wing. 
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Posted: 10/28/2016 8:56:22 PM EDT
[#4]
That looks awesome Guns
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Posted: 10/28/2016 10:30:10 PM EDT
[#5]
All of it looks GREAT!
The one doing the bell housing has some skills and dedication. The bell housings look perfect once you envision the airbrushing and other details. The wing edge is very smooth and look like the pictures from a distance (not THAT far..). Just realized you could sell ad space by putting a different hat on the shuttle for each batch. 
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Posted: 10/28/2016 10:32:06 PM EDT
[#6]
That burlap is going to soak up paint like nobody's business. I would recommend rolling it with kilz or something similarly heavy.
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Posted: 10/28/2016 10:33:55 PM EDT
[#7]
Really cool, OP! Congrats to everyone involved! Excellent work!
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Posted: 10/28/2016 10:54:52 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted:
That burlap is going to soak up paint like nobody's business. I would recommend rolling it with kilz or something similarly heavy. Good idea, that's a pretty good primer. |
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Posted: 10/28/2016 10:59:22 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Good idea, that's a pretty good primer. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
That burlap is going to soak up paint like nobody's business. I would recommend rolling it with kilz or something similarly heavy. Good idea, that's a pretty good primer. The burlap already has the hide paste on it. It is very, very hard. It is like fiberglass right now with the glue on it. We have to knock down the high points and fibers sticking up because they hurt when you brush up against them. We use this same set up for making taxidermy rocks.
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Posted: 10/28/2016 11:03:24 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The burlap already has the hide paste on it. It is very, very hard. It is like fiberglass right now with the glue on it. We have to knock down the high points and fibers sticking up because they hurt when you brush up against them. We use this same set up for making taxidermy rocks. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
That burlap is going to soak up paint like nobody's business. I would recommend rolling it with kilz or something similarly heavy. Good idea, that's a pretty good primer. The burlap already has the hide paste on it. It is very, very hard. It is like fiberglass right now with the glue on it. We have to knock down the high points and fibers sticking up because they hurt when you brush up against them. We use this same set up for making taxidermy rocks. Just checking in. And as always... 
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Posted: 10/28/2016 11:33:24 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
That burlap is going to soak up paint like nobody's business. I would recommend rolling it with kilz or something similarly heavy. Also wanted to add that I know it's all pretty rough looking right now. The kids have had similar reactions and reserves about the burlap. I'm hoping with some creative painting and stenciled straight edges, we can make it look proper. 
The kids were looking at all the images posted and discussing how to start the various levels of paint, scorching, and weathering. They were pretty excited . |
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Posted: 10/29/2016 12:08:14 AM EDT
[#12]
Honestly, if you get close, the thermal blanket parts of the shuttle are pretty "scrappy" looking.
The burlap weave is actually a good simulation. I think figuring out a way to seam the edges will make it look pretty correct. And if it soaks up a ton of paint? It'll probably make it look more correct, and reinforce the structure of the model anyway. Is the hide paste permanent or water/moisture solulable? Will it re-soften when the paint goes on?
My first idea would be to take something like a spline roller, and when the edges of the burlap are semi-dry, but still gummy with the paint, roll/cut/carve the seams into the edges between the squares. Maybe do a mockup of a few squares painted to see how that goes and what the working time is if it works at all. Or, if it's latex paint you use, maybe let it dry completely, then get it warm and gummy with a hair-dryer and roll the grooves/seams into it. http://www.qualitywindowscreen.com/store/spline-roller-tool-economy-nylon-p-317.html 
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Posted: 10/29/2016 3:14:07 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Honestly, if you get close, the thermal blanket parts of the shuttle are pretty "scrappy" looking. The burlap weave is actually a good simulation. I think figuring out a way to seam the edges will make it look pretty correct. And if it soaks up a ton of paint? It'll probably make it look more correct, and reinforce the structure of the model anyway. Is the hide paste permanent or water/moisture solulable? Will it re-soften when the paint goes on?
My first idea would be to take something like a spline roller, and when the edges of the burlap are semi-dry, but still gummy with the paint, roll/cut/carve the seams into the edges between the squares. Maybe do a mockup of a few squares painted to see how that goes and what the working time is if it works at all. Or, if it's latex paint you use, maybe let it dry completely, then get it warm and gummy with a hair-dryer and roll the grooves/seams into it. http://www.qualitywindowscreen.com/store/spline-roller-tool-economy-nylon-p-317.html <a href="http://s156.photobucket.com/user/AJ_Dual/media/138504main_msb1105_blanket_orbit_2_hi_zpsfvdwoju1.jpg.html" target="_blank">http://i156.photobucket.com/albums/t33/AJ_Dual/138504main_msb1105_blanket_orbit_2_hi_zpsfvdwoju1.jpg</a> Good ideas, and thanks for the advice. The hide paste will not be softening. It probably is water soluable, but to get enough water on it and long enough to soften would ruin the drawing board the rest of the shuttle is skinned with. We had to seal the edges of the drawing boards to keep them from warping too much when we were putting much of the burlap on. You are right about the seams. They will make or break us on the look. I think we can clean up the edges with some nice straight stenciled airbrush paint. Up close it may look a little rough, but from 10 feet, it might work really well. The outside edges where it meets the smoother skin is going to trim up well with strips of drawing board. We will see. 
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Posted: 10/29/2016 8:50:35 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Update 10/28 Here they are plotting the final tip completion and how best to deliver success. The spray foam was a big hit, and seemed to really help strengthen the edge. Glad the spray foam worked out. It's great hearing about kids that want to spend extra time working on your projects. Looks great so far. |
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Posted: 10/29/2016 10:23:15 AM EDT
[#15]
yep, carefully stencilling the edges should work very well. Probably with a medium gray color.
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Posted: 10/29/2016 9:59:32 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
This fine young lady is always leaving me a selfie when I happen to leave my phone unattended . I didn't even find them till after school. She's a funny kid, stepdaughter to a former student, and part of Sparks556's clan, that I've been adopted into. https://c4.staticflickr.com/6/5623/30627386275_898bc7c5c3_h.jpg ] She looks like a high school age version of my 8 year old(right down to the goofy look on her face). . Just called her into the computer room to see what she might look like in high school. Maybe I'll take a picture in the next couple days. |
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Posted: 10/29/2016 10:11:47 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryLove seeing the different students instructing and teaching each other, top notch guns! |
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Posted: 10/30/2016 3:31:24 PM EDT
[#18]
Hey guns,
do your students ever preserve a wasp nest? I've seen some instructions online, but wanted your expert opinion on the best way to preserve this a bit. 
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Posted: 10/30/2016 4:08:36 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey guns, do your students ever preserve a wasp nest? I've seen some instructions online, but wanted your expert opinion on the best way to preserve this a bit. <a href="https://flic.kr/p/NfkPuu" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5644/30354709160_8e6e7d4ee3.jpg</a> I think the only way to be sure.....is to nuke that from orbit.
Sorry, no experience with preserving them. |
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Posted: 10/30/2016 4:45:03 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I think the only way to be sure.....is to nuke that from orbit.
Sorry, no experience with preserving them. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Hey guns, do your students ever preserve a wasp nest? I've seen some instructions online, but wanted your expert opinion on the best way to preserve this a bit. <a href="https://flic.kr/p/NfkPuu" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5644/30354709160_8e6e7d4ee3.jpg</a> I think the only way to be sure.....is to nuke that from orbit.
Sorry, no experience with preserving them. Haha, yeah if there wasn't snow on the ground, and a few freeze/thaw cycles, it would have gotten load of #5 shot for sure! This one was low enough to get easily, so I'll give it a try. I'll see what I can find for a spray-able clear varnish/polyurethane sealant and see how it goes. |
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Posted: 10/31/2016 10:40:52 AM EDT
[#21]
Update 10/31 I didn't get the email from the secretary that I had a package arrive Friday afternoon, till I was at home. I went in this morning and opened it up in front of the Principal. I thought I knew what was in it.
This is a big Thank You!!!!! to AZNetEng. Absolutely incredible generosity again from another ARFCOMER. My principal and I were blown away at the generosity. Here is what was in the box.... 
Love these tapes.....they have 8ths marked on them.  Those will be so handy for kids to learn with.
Then there is this....
I'm going to talk to students today about what tools they think we need. Probably something run by DeWalt 20vt lithiam batteries.
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Posted: 10/31/2016 12:38:43 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Update 10/31 I didn't get the email from the secretary that I had a package arrive Friday afternoon, till I was at home. I went in this morning and opened it up in front of the Principal. I thought I knew what was in it.
This is a big Thank You!!!!! to AZNetEng. Absolutely incredible generosity again from another ARFCOMER. My principal and I were blown away at the generosity. Here is what was in the box.... https://c6.staticflickr.com/6/5822/30600130661_275748cc0d_h.jpg Love these tapes.....they have 8ths marked on them. Those will be so handy for kids to learn with.
https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5653/30600124991_77c6253618_h.jpg Then there is this....
I'm going to talk to students today about what tools they think we need. Probably something run by DeWalt 20vt lithiam batteries.
https://c8.staticflickr.com/6/5575/30600123551_6e9d0a4454_h.jpg This place is awesome! |
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Posted: 10/31/2016 12:39:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Good Stuff right there!
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Posted: 10/31/2016 1:00:12 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hey guns, do your students ever preserve a wasp nest? I've seen some instructions online, but wanted your expert opinion on the best way to preserve this a bit. <a href="https://flic.kr/p/NfkPuu" target="_blank">https://c1.staticflickr.com/6/5644/30354709160_8e6e7d4ee3.jpg</a>
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Posted: 10/31/2016 10:47:22 PM EDT
[#25]
I am glad everything got there in good order.
There were more than a few fellow arfcommers who contributed, so thank you all that could do so. Looking forward to the Tshirt sale! |
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Posted: 10/31/2016 10:55:44 PM EDT
[#26]
This thread is such an enormous breath of fresh air from all the political threads here lately.
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Posted: 10/31/2016 10:55:53 PM EDT
[#27]
My crystal ball says the other departments will be more willing to assist in the future.
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Posted: 10/31/2016 11:07:31 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am glad everything got there in good order. There were more than a few fellow arfcommers who contributed, so thank you all that could do so. Looking forward to the Tshirt sale! |
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Posted: 11/1/2016 11:14:30 AM EDT
[#29]
I went shopping yesterday, but came out empty handed.
I consulted again with students yesterday afternoon. They had some good ideas. Hopefully I'll get a chance to get down there again this morning. On the possible list .... contour gauge Sawsall--probably corded maybe a corded or off brand cordless 6.5" circular saw |
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Posted: 11/1/2016 1:41:03 PM EDT
[#30]
Update 11/1/16
A big Thank You to all of you who contributed to the gift card. As much fun it is to spend other people's money, I hope everyone approves of the way it was spent. ARFCOM helps me regain faith in humanity. The incredible generosity of members here is astounding. When I explain where this stuff comes from to kids, they often have a hard time understanding why "strangers" would do this for them. I think many of them get a higher sense of importance on their work on the shuttle when they see people they don't even know showing an interest like this. Many aren't in extracurricular activities, or the sports that attract large audiences here, and this is a way they can shine in front of a virtual audience.
Brian at ACE is a good hand, and has a lot of construction experience over a lifetime. He helped me put together the purchase. He guided me away from a battery powered circular saw, as we would be using it on 1/2" and 3/4" He said it would run the battery out too quickly. We went with a corded 7.5" Craftsman. It allowed me to also buy quite a loot of tools that we need. 
You can see how it broke down here. Brian tried to throw in the extra dollar at the end to help cover the taxes, but I wouldn't let him. 
This week's Haiku: 
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Posted: 11/1/2016 1:48:38 PM EDT
[#31]
I had looked a few times for this thread, but didn't find it until this past weekend. I've spent the last few days catching up and as always, I am thoroughly impressed.
Your students are doing amazing work and I can't wait to see the final product. As I've seen one or two other members post, I'm reasonably close to Udvar-Hazy and have been to see the Enterprise and Discovery a few times. If there's anything you need detail-wise, I can search my previous pictures or make a day-trip during the weekend. Keep up the good work!
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Posted: 11/1/2016 1:53:42 PM EDT
[#32]
just dont use that plastic square for making straight cuts with a razor blade
it will quickly make your square.... unsquare not that I speak from experience or anything I would never do something dumb like that yeah I did that... |
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Posted: 11/1/2016 2:22:51 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I went shopping yesterday, but came out empty handed. I consulted again with students yesterday afternoon. They had some good ideas. Hopefully I'll get a chance to get down there again this morning. On the possible list .... contour gauge Sawsall--probably corded maybe a corded or off brand cordless 6.5" circular saw |
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Posted: 11/1/2016 2:44:43 PM EDT
[#34]
Another outstanding thread!
I'll be in D.C. with my wife and son and will be checking out space shuttle Discovery at the Smithsonian. I'm not sure how much access or how close visitors get to the shuttle, but let me know if you want or need any close up pictures of specific details and I'll do my best to get them for you. I'm taking my Canon 5dii and a few nice lenses, so should be able to get some great detail if you tell me what you need. |
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Posted: 11/1/2016 7:28:41 PM EDT
[#35]
Update 11/1.2
We are slowly transitioning into details. We used the Dremel to cut the holes on the nose, but it wasn't very controllable, so we switched to our handy jigsaw and the new tiny blade that was in AZNetEng's package . It was much better at getting those contours cut out without making mistakes.
Trim along the burlap is coming right along. 
This is enthusiasm after after being harassed about the quality of a connection point. One of them might have flipped me the bird shortly after this was taken, but I cannot confirm that.
Cowlings were getting some final structural constructs today. 
Finally, the windows got some major progress today.  We cut out the photos, then sprayed them with clearcoat krylon, applying the plastic over top. It was going great and we got all six done, then two of them fouled. Too much heat and glue caused the pictures to delam from the plastic. We had to use some acetone to get the krylon off, and will have to try again tomorrow.
They seem to look pretty good as long as you remember you will be looking at them from below, when it's hanging. 
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Posted: 11/1/2016 7:37:48 PM EDT
[#36]
This is Freakin Awesome, wish we had stuff like this going on when I was in school.
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Posted: 11/1/2016 8:24:02 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Update 11/1.2 One of them might have flipped me the bird shortly after this was taken, but I cannot confirm that. Sounds like you found a new way to choose your tile installers. |
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Posted: 11/1/2016 10:23:46 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Sounds like you found a new way to choose your tile installers. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: Update 11/1.2
One of them might have flipped me the bird shortly after this was taken, but I cannot confirm that. Sounds like you found a new way to choose your tile installers. 
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Posted: 11/2/2016 7:52:13 AM EDT
[#39]
We have a half day with students today. Everyone has a common term
for our every other Wednesday, but it is frowned upon by central admin, so I won't post it. It's not "Wonderful Wednesday", that's for sure.
Hopefully, with 25min, per class, we can still get a few things done today.  We were discussing the thruster ports and how best to create them yesterday; small cones, like water cups, cut down, or tubes with ends?
The windows will probably get completed. I've got some ideas for more details on the flat edges near the cockpit. We might get some of that done too. The cargo bay needs it's details. Those might start getting assigned today. The airlock also needs assembled. It may be time to get paint; much sooner than I thought. The bottom still needs caulking before we begin tiling and paint. |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 9:07:54 AM EDT
[#40]
What payload will she be carrying? Some of the payloads, particularly w/ the European Spacelab, can get rather elaborate.
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Posted: 11/2/2016 10:48:53 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What payload will she be carrying? Some of the payloads, particularly w/ the European Spacelab, can get rather elaborate. At this time, the bay will be empty. We are starting on the Russian sat. that we will be approaching when displayed. If we have time, we may add a payload that can be installed. |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 11:39:46 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
We have a half day with students today. Everyone has a common term for our every other Wednesday, but it is frowned upon by central admin, so I won't post it. It's not "Wonderful Wednesday", that's for sure.
Hopefully, with 25min, per class, we can still get a few things done today. We were discussing the thruster ports and how best to create them yesterday; small cones, like water cups, cut down, or tubes with ends?
The windows will probably get completed. I've got some ideas for more details on the flat edges near the cockpit. We might get some of that done too. The cargo bay needs it's details. Those might start getting assigned today. The airlock also needs assembled. It may be time to get paint; much sooner than I thought. The bottom still needs caulking before we begin tiling and paint. At your scale what is the diameter of the RCS holes on the OMS pods and the nose? Honestly I've always assumed that the RCS engines on the shuttle are small engine bells like on the Apollo LEM and SM: 
But I honestly don't know. They're covered prior to launch and all the photos post landing just have too much shadow to tell for sure: 
I was thinking paper cone cups cut to size would work well or maybe plastic cooking funnels might work. Although the latter might be too shallow to look right. ETA: What about these snow cone funnels? |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 11:48:44 AM EDT
[#43]
Update 11/2
The ARFCOM generosity continues. 
Brass, Thank you so much for these, and the connectors to go with them. It was too funny this morning. I was talking to both my Principal and VP, showing them all the tools we got yesterday, and a student walks up with a package from Amazon . 
I opened it to find these sent to us by Brass. So awesome.
Windows are in. 
Docking/escape hatch is in progress. 
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Posted: 11/2/2016 12:03:51 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
At your scale what is the diameter of the RCS holes on the OMS pods and the nose? Honestly I've always assumed that the RCS engines on the shuttle are small engine bells like on the Apollo LEM and SM: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-KpkkY0HNY78/VHDqaIpM0fI/AAAAAAAAGok/5WXfXk8yxm0/s1600/csm.jpg But I honestly don't know. They're covered prior to launch and all the photos post landing just have too much shadow to tell for sure: http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oDqe8GmPHfQ/VMZuuo5Ze7I/AAAAAAAACNE/uFSHuZYcW3o/s1600/DSC05549.jpg I was thinking paper cone cups cut to size would work well or maybe plastic cooking funnels might work. Although the latter might be too shallow to look right. ETA: What about these snow cone funnels? Yeah, we had the same idea about the snow cones, but now that I'm thinking about it, I'll bet they are wax coated. The paint wouldn't stick to them. We will probably have to make our own. Diameter on ours is 1 3/8" |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 12:30:53 PM EDT
[#45]
Glad the hose got there OK, should be more durable than the really cheap yellow ones which will split randomly. The manifold/splitter to run more than one hose should be there in soon to help with airbrushing and stapling speed.
Pretty soon, you'll only need one of those CNC router tables and Wood Shop will be redundant. |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 12:33:35 PM EDT
[#46]
Google "Lamp Shades" maybe you will get lucky. There are an awful lot of them out there.
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Posted: 11/2/2016 12:44:17 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Google "Lamp Shades" maybe you will get lucky. There are an awful lot of them out there. You talking about for the RCS bells? I'm not sure there are lamp shades that are 1 3/8" in diameter. |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 1:27:39 PM EDT
[#48]
I wonder if they make those veterinary head cones to prevent licking/biting/scratching for rodents?
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Posted: 11/2/2016 1:41:03 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You talking about for the RCS bells? I'm not sure there are lamp shades that are 1 3/8" in diameter. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Google "Lamp Shades" maybe you will get lucky. There are an awful lot of them out there. You talking about for the RCS bells? I'm not sure there are lamp shades that are 1 3/8" in diameter. Automotive paint funnels. The ones used to pour the paint into the spray gun. |
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Posted: 11/2/2016 1:42:26 PM EDT
[#50]
You could start with something like this and cut them down:
 They have them at Amazon, and probably a craft store like Michaels. 2" across at the open end. |
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