|
Quoted:
The lobbyist appears to be SA's hand puppet. RRA managed not to get fragged by how they handled the SAFE Act, which should have brought more heat. They may have played stickball with a hand grenade too many times. If a gun maker pays a lobbyist tens of thousands of dollars and lets him speak for them in gun legislation, then they should keep him on leash. How many bills are rolling through the process in IL that would affect manufacturers? At a minimum, this is a very laissez-faire attitude to fighting antigun legislation. "Experience is a harsh teacher: First it gives you the test . . . then it teaches you the lesson." |
|
Quoted:
Yes, original bill had no exemptions. In order to remove opposition and gain votes, sponsor submitted an amendment to exempt manufacturers and big box stores with less than 20% firearms sales. So, with opposition dropped, bill got more yes votes, enough to give the antis the minimum necessary to pass. |
|
Quoted:
The lobbyist appears to be SA's hand puppet. RRA managed not to get fragged by how they handled the SAFE Act, which should have brought more heat. They may have played stickball with a hand grenade too many times. If a gun maker pays a lobbyist tens of thousands of dollars and lets him speak for them in gun legislation, then they should keep him on leash. How many bills are rolling through the process in IL that would affect manufacturers? At a minimum, this is a very laissez-faire attitude to fighting antigun legislation. Plausible deniability |
|
Quoted:
Become a voting member and change it. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We need to put pressure on the NRA to stop supporting / running any ads from Springfield otherwise they're condoning this. That type of voting member? |
|
I wouldn't be surprised if RRA put their lobbyist on "autopilot" and ended up supporting something they didn't like...I could see that, especially from a company that isn't really engaged in social media.
If they come out swinging against their lobbyist and the deal in the House, I'll take them at their word, though it's really REALLY dumb to let people speak for you without a very short leash or a lot of trust. At this point I am fairly convinced that Springfield got what they paid for, and I won't shed a tear for how little return they get from their 30 pieces of silver. |
|
Quoted:
Oh, you mean like me? A voting member since 1994? A voting member that burns vacation time and goes to the capitol? A voting member that is at the capitol when the NRA rep claims to be there and she isn't there? That type of voting member? Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We need to put pressure on the NRA to stop supporting / running any ads from Springfield otherwise they're condoning this. That type of voting member? |
|
The lack of response by both manufacturers is evidence enough for me. Worst yet is the answer "well everyone is away at the moment, come back later for an explanation". BULL! With technology today, any mistake or misrepresentation of facts should of been clarified within 24hours.
RRA being upset does nothing for me. Their lack of explaining does. |
|
Quoted:
The lack of response by both manufacturers is evidence enough for me. Worst yet is the answer "well everyone is away at the moment, come back later for an explanation". BULL! With technology today, any mistake or misrepresentation of facts should of been clarified within 24hours. RRA being upset does nothing for me. Their lack of explaining does. |
|
Quoted:
Why do you think there is little chance to pass the House or the governor to sign? The house is composed of 67 Dems and 51 Rep. Granted the Governor is a republican but dont know thats a given veto. The best hope is for the downstate Dems that will vote the attitude of their constituents and not the Chicago party leadership. 
|
|
Quoted:
I wouldn't be surprised if RRA put their lobbyist on "autopilot" and ended up supporting something they didn't like...I could see that, especially from a company that isn't really engaged in social media. If they come out swinging against their lobbyist and the deal in the House, I'll take them at their word, though it's really REALLY dumb to let people speak for you without a very short leash or a lot of trust. At this point I am fairly convinced that Springfield got what they paid for, and I won't shed a tear for how little return they get from their 30 pieces of silver. The lobbyist made the negotiations and the exemption/'carve out" for SA & RRA was done in March. Today is the last day in April. The author of the article at TTAG, (John Boch) stated in the original article that he had contacted BOTH SA and RRA about the pending legislation before the article was published Friday, April 27th. Both had no comment. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/john-boch/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-trade-opposition-to-illinois-ffl-licensing-scheme-for-carve-out/ Today, (Sunday April 30th) at 338 pm, (CST), the moderator of RRA forum posted this: "Quoted: RRA's owner is at NRAAM in Atlanta, where he is meeting with a number of people about this. While many of the necessary people are in Atlanta, some are not which is complicating things. RRA has been opposed to this bill (and earlier bills prior to it for more than a decade) and is still in 100% opposition to it. Both our exemption and the change in our lobbyist's position from "opposed" to "no position" were surprises to us. We found out after many of you, and have been trying to make sense of it since. A statement will be forthcoming as soon as it is possible to make one that is accurate and complete. It may still come out today. Thank you all for your consideration and to the many who have been willing to give us the benefit of the doubt. Steve/RRA" https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_38/283188_.html&page=2&anc=3131750#i3131750 Bottom 3rd of page.... 3 days for that as an official reply is horse shit. No if's, And's, or But's about it. If their lobbyist had gone rogue, and decided to do this all on his own, they should have publicly distanced themselves from him back in March. Failing that, they should have done so at the NRA show to anyone of hundreds of Firearm bloggers or enthusiasts who have youtube channels to get their side out there. Sitting quietly and trying to make sense of it is either a bad PR move because you allow the narrative being put forth by others to solidify, or a calculated move to wait and see if it blows over. So RRA is either terminally stupid or traitorous towards gun owners in Illinois. Which do you think it is since they were contacted before the article was published and had no comment on legislation enacted by their lobbyist over a month ago? |
|
Quoted:
One things for sure... my new 1911 will NOT be a Springfield! and my next AR build will not be made with anything Rock River inside. F'm both! I honestly don't they do. I think they feel like they're on top. That they're superior. That this thing will blow over. I think they believe that most won't follow through with idle threat. Even 'IF' a few do, big deal. Plenty more where they came from. That's what I really think... |
|
Quoted:
Call it what you want but it's reality. 
I voted and voted no to the by-law change. YMMV How many of you NeverNRAers are actual voting members? You can't do dick if you can't vote. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
How do you know this? Maybe they are informed and wanted the changes? Maybe they voted for who they wanted ? Just because you don't agree? 
I voted and voted no to the by-law change. YMMV How many of you NeverNRAers are actual voting members? You can't do dick if you can't vote. |
|
Quoted:
Here's the problem: The lobbyist made the negotiations and the exemption/'carve out" for SA & RRA was done in March. Today is the last day in April. The author of the article at TTAG, (John Boch) stated in the original article that he had contacted BOTH SA and RRA about the pending legislation before the article was published Friday, April 27th. Both had no comment. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/john-boch/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-trade-opposition-to-illinois-ffl-licensing-scheme-for-carve-out/ Today, (Sunday April 30th) at 338 pm, (CST), the moderator of RRA forum posted this: "Quoted: RRA's owner is at NRAAM in Atlanta, where he is meeting with a number of people about this. While many of the necessary people are in Atlanta, some are not which is complicating things. RRA has been opposed to this bill (and earlier bills prior to it for more than a decade) and is still in 100% opposition to it. Both our exemption and the change in our lobbyist's position from "opposed" to "no position" were surprises to us. We found out after many of you, and have been trying to make sense of it since. A statement will be forthcoming as soon as it is possible to make one that is accurate and complete. It may still come out today. Thank you all for your consideration and to the many who have been willing to give us the benefit of the doubt. Steve/RRA" https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_38/283188_.html&page=2&anc=3131750#i3131750 Bottom 3rd of page.... 3 days for that as an official reply is horse shit. No if's, And's, or But's about it. If their lobbyist had gone rogue, and decided to do this all on his own, they should have publicly distanced themselves from him back in March. Failing that, they should have done so at the NRA show to anyone of hundreds of Firearm bloggers or enthusiasts who have youtube channels to get their side out there. Sitting quietly and trying to make sense of it is either a bad PR move because you allow the narrative being put forth by others to solidify, or a calculated move to wait and see if it blows over. So RRA is either terminally stupid or traitorous towards gun owners in Illinois. Which do you think it is since they were contacted before the article was published and had no comment on legislation enacted by their lobbyist over a month ago? 
|
|
Quoted:
I may be a little cynical here, but do you really think they care? I honestly don't they do. I think they feel like they're on top. That they're superior. That this thing will blow over. I think they believe that most won't follow through with idle threat. Even 'IF' a few do, big deal. Plenty more where they came from. That's what I really think... Quoted:
Quoted:
One things for sure... my new 1911 will NOT be a Springfield! and my next AR build will not be made with anything Rock River inside. F'm both! I honestly don't they do. I think they feel like they're on top. That they're superior. That this thing will blow over. I think they believe that most won't follow through with idle threat. Even 'IF' a few do, big deal. Plenty more where they came from. That's what I really think... I know who my money is on, and it aint the manufacturers. |
|
Quoted:
This gentleman knows the deal. Very nicely written synopsis of the current situation. Quoted:
Quoted:
Here's the problem: The lobbyist made the negotiations and the exemption/'carve out" for SA & RRA was done in March. Today is the last day in April. The author of the article at TTAG, (John Boch) stated in the original article that he had contacted BOTH SA and RRA about the pending legislation before the article was published Friday, April 27th. Both had no comment. http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/2017/04/john-boch/springfield-armory-rock-river-arms-trade-opposition-to-illinois-ffl-licensing-scheme-for-carve-out/ Today, (Sunday April 30th) at 338 pm, (CST), the moderator of RRA forum posted this: "Quoted: RRA's owner is at NRAAM in Atlanta, where he is meeting with a number of people about this. While many of the necessary people are in Atlanta, some are not which is complicating things. RRA has been opposed to this bill (and earlier bills prior to it for more than a decade) and is still in 100% opposition to it. Both our exemption and the change in our lobbyist's position from "opposed" to "no position" were surprises to us. We found out after many of you, and have been trying to make sense of it since. A statement will be forthcoming as soon as it is possible to make one that is accurate and complete. It may still come out today. Thank you all for your consideration and to the many who have been willing to give us the benefit of the doubt. Steve/RRA" https://www.ar15.com/forums/t_2_38/283188_.html&page=2&anc=3131750#i3131750 Bottom 3rd of page.... 3 days for that as an official reply is horse shit. No if's, And's, or But's about it. If their lobbyist had gone rogue, and decided to do this all on his own, they should have publicly distanced themselves from him back in March. Failing that, they should have done so at the NRA show to anyone of hundreds of Firearm bloggers or enthusiasts who have youtube channels to get their side out there. Sitting quietly and trying to make sense of it is either a bad PR move because you allow the narrative being put forth by others to solidify, or a calculated move to wait and see if it blows over. So RRA is either terminally stupid or traitorous towards gun owners in Illinois. Which do you think it is since they were contacted before the article was published and had no comment on legislation enacted by their lobbyist over a month ago? Cross the river and come west. We have better laws and lower taxes..... |
|
Quoted:
I may be a little cynical here, but do you really think they care? I honestly don't they do. I think they feel like they're on top. That they're superior. That this thing will blow over. I think they believe that most won't follow through with idle threat. Even 'IF' a few do, big deal. Plenty more where they came from. That's what I really think... |
|
Quoted:
Yeah, well, that's just like your opinion man. Quoted:
Quoted:
I may be a little cynical here, but do you really think they care? I honestly don't they do. I think they feel like they're on top. That they're superior. That this thing will blow over. I think they believe that most won't follow through with idle threat. Even 'IF' a few do, big deal. Plenty more where they came from. That's what I really think... |
|
Quoted:
I may be a little cynical here, but do you really think they care? I honestly don't they do. I think they feel like they're on top. That they're superior. That this thing will blow over. I think they believe that most won't follow through with idle threat. Even 'IF' a few do, big deal. Plenty more where they came from. That's what I really think... S&W is on it's second owner since Thompkins and nearly two decades later people still boycott them. There was even a "hey did you hear about this" thread this past week. |
|
Quoted:
Oh, you mean like me? A voting member since 1994? A voting member that burns vacation time and goes to the capitol? A voting member that is at the capitol when the NRA rep claims to be there and she isn't there? That type of voting member? Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We need to put pressure on the NRA to stop supporting / running any ads from Springfield otherwise they're condoning this. That type of voting member? |
|
Quoted:
BOOM! If the NRA gave a shit they would pull all ads and would have packed up the Springfield booth and kicked them out. All I've seen in Florida is them begging for more of my money with nothing to show for it. Repub house, senate, and Governor!!!! Let's see if they have Springfield ads in next months magazine. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
We need to put pressure on the NRA to stop supporting / running any ads from Springfield otherwise they're condoning this. That type of voting member? This isn't an NRA thread, keep on point |
|
Quoted:
Springfield Armory 800 680-6866 or 309 944-5631 Rock River 866 980-7625 or 309 792-5780 Please call, even if you live in a free State, and let them know you on object to their shenanigans. |
|
Quoted:
BOOM! If the NRA gave a shit they would pull all ads and would have packed up the Springfield booth and kicked them out. All I've seen in Florida is them begging for more of my money with nothing to show for it. Repub house, senate, and Governor!!!! Let's see if they have Springfield ads in next months magazine. |
|
Quoted:
BOOM! If the NRA gave a shit they would pull all ads and would have packed up the Springfield booth and kicked them out. All I've seen in Florida is them begging for more of my money with nothing to show for it. Repub house, senate, and Governor!!!! Let's see if they have Springfield ads in next months magazine. What we get from the NRA here in Florida is letters and explanations from Marion Hammer that mostly serve to keep a lid on things more than anything else. This year an NRA A rated politician killed open carry in her committee while we have a supermajority in both houses of the legislature and a republican governor. If not now; then when? The NRA isn't going to walk away from Soringfield Armory ad revenue, nor will we hear a peep out of them on this issue. |
|
Quoted:
I may be a little cynical here, but do you really think they care? I honestly don't they do. I think they feel like they're on top. That they're superior. That this thing will blow over. I think they believe that most won't follow through with idle threat. Even 'IF' a few do, big deal. Plenty more where they came from. That's what I really think... And they got their shit pushed in by angry gun owners pre-Internet. |
|
Quoted:
I greatly appreciate the support of those who know me& my comp, Illinois Tactical Firearms Training Institute, Inc. I can tell you I mistakenly fucked up the form, filling it out on my phone. I immediately tried to delete it/ fix it, but wasn't able to do so, so I filed another in Opposition to the bill. Our FB statement is:"Lesson Learned:To clarify, since we have become aware of SB1657 we have been against the idea of Illinois trying to control when the ATF already strictly enforces. We do not feel the Illinois needs to make it harder to become a gun dealer when the process is already difficult and tightly controlled by ATF and ISP. Where we learned our important lesson is when I filled out a Witness Slip Form which was supposed to opposing the bill. Apparently, while I was filling out the form on my phone, while dragging the screen down, I somehow inadvertently changed the stance from opposed to neutral. Since I was not aware of this and did not look it over before I submitted the form, it was never changed back. When I got my confirmation email and saw what it said I had to go change my pants and the quickly filed another Witness Slip, which I carefully ensured it stayed Opposed. Unfortunately, since I did not sign in before submitting the form, I was not able to change the original submission. After speaking with our local representatives, I feel comfortable in saying it does not appear it will clear the House or be signed by the Gov if it does, but neither is guaranteed. If you have any questions, let us know. I re-learned an important lesson, double check your work. To be clear, ITFT is steadfastly against SB1657!!" It was a mistake, no conspiracy, no nothing except a mistake. Now, maybe we can move our focus to those who are supporting the bill and those who could be voting in support, in order to prevent it from getting to the Governor. Confirm email of Opposition has been pasted in FB comments to statement. |
|
Quoted:
I just called RRA, and they said that an official press release will be appearing on their website this morning that essentially says, "We got duped, and we have absolutely no desire to have our name attached to this legislation". Off to call SA.... |
|
Quoted:
I just wanted to bump this info so folks can give SA and RRA a call this morning and say howdy. Quoted:
Quoted:
Springfield Armory 800 680-6866 or 309 944-5631 Rock River 866 980-7625 or 309 792-5780 Please call, even if you live in a free State, and let them know you on object to their shenanigans. |
|
They care. You think United Airlines "cared"?
Quoted:
I may be a little cynical here, but do you really think they care? I honestly don't they do. I think they feel like they're on top. That they're superior. That this thing will blow over. I think they believe that most won't follow through with idle threat. Even 'IF' a few do, big deal. Plenty more where they came from. That's what I really think... |
|
Quoted:
I'd bet good money they won't pull the ads. Quoted:
Quoted:
BOOM! If the NRA gave a shit they would pull all ads and would have packed up the Springfield booth and kicked them out. All I've seen in Florida is them begging for more of my money with nothing to show for it. Repub house, senate, and Governor!!!! Let's see if they have Springfield ads in next months magazine. |
|
Quoted:
Why would they? NRA awarded Springfield Armory/Dennis Reese with 2017 Golden Bullet award for Tactical Gun of the Year. Quoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
BOOM! If the NRA gave a shit they would pull all ads and would have packed up the Springfield booth and kicked them out. All I've seen in Florida is them begging for more of my money with nothing to show for it. Repub house, senate, and Governor!!!! Let's see if they have Springfield ads in next months magazine. |
|
get used too this as NRA's mode of operation... they did the same to us in Washington.... they dont give two shits about most of us team... your state could be next.... when Bloomberg or someone like him takes aim at you.....
Quoted:
I've been an NRA member for my entire life since I was a teenager and I'll continue to be one, but a lot of us in Florida are fed up with the tepid/non support, and even sabotage that we've received from the NRA regarding open carry and other important pro gun legislation. What we get from the NRA here in Florida is letters and explanations from Marion Hammer that mostly serve to keep a lid on things more than anything else. This year an NRA A rated politician killed open carry in her committee while we have a supermajority in both houses of the legislature and a republican governor. If not now; then when? The NRA isn't going to walk away from Soringfield Armory ad revenue, nor will we hear a peep out of them on this issue. Quoted:
Quoted:
BOOM! If the NRA gave a shit they would pull all ads and would have packed up the Springfield booth and kicked them out. All I've seen in Florida is them begging for more of my money with nothing to show for it. Repub house, senate, and Governor!!!! Let's see if they have Springfield ads in next months magazine. What we get from the NRA here in Florida is letters and explanations from Marion Hammer that mostly serve to keep a lid on things more than anything else. This year an NRA A rated politician killed open carry in her committee while we have a supermajority in both houses of the legislature and a republican governor. If not now; then when? The NRA isn't going to walk away from Soringfield Armory ad revenue, nor will we hear a peep out of them on this issue. |
|
Pardon my lack of reading comprehension but I don't understand what is in it for RRA or Springfield Armory.
As I understand it, they are exempt from the new state law that requires state licensing to sell firearms and limits the number of sales per month. But RRA and Springfield Armory sell through these same distributors/FFL's that they reportedly screwed. By supporting the law, they have limited their sales. It seems the "exemption" is irrelevant unless you can go to the factory and buy directly from these manufacturers. What am I missing? |
|
Quoted:
Pardon my lack of reading comprehension but I don't understand what is in it for RRA or Springfield Armory. As I understand it, they are exempt from the new state law that requires state licensing to sell firearms and limits the number of sales per month. But RRA and Springfield Armory sell through these same distributors/FFL's that they reportedly screwed. By supporting the law, they have limited their sales. It seems the "exemption" is irrelevant unless you can go to the factory and buy directly from these manufacturers. What am I missing? It would have been a small price to pay in comparison for them if it would have went unnoticed. |
|
Quoted:
Pardon my lack of reading comprehension but I don't understand what is in it for RRA or Springfield Armory. As I understand it, they are exempt from the new state law that requires state licensing to sell firearms and limits the number of sales per month. But RRA and Springfield Armory sell through these same distributors/FFL's that they reportedly screwed. By supporting the law, they have limited their sales. It seems the "exemption" is irrelevant unless you can go to the factory and buy directly from these manufacturers. What am I missing? |
|
Quoted:
In this case they only screwed the FFL's, distributors, residents, and other manufacturers in the state of IL. They did that to maintain their ability to sell unhindered to everyone else in every other state. Quoted:
Quoted:
Pardon my lack of reading comprehension but I don't understand what is in it for RRA or Springfield Armory. As I understand it, they are exempt from the new state law that requires state licensing to sell firearms and limits the number of sales per month. But RRA and Springfield Armory sell through these same distributors/FFL's that they reportedly screwed. By supporting the law, they have limited their sales. It seems the "exemption" is irrelevant unless you can go to the factory and buy directly from these manufacturers. What am I missing? |
|
Quoted:
In this case they only screwed the FFL's, distributors, residents, and other manufacturers in the state of IL. They did that to maintain their ability to sell unhindered to everyone else in every other state. The bill was dead without IMFA removing their opposition. Either way SA wouldn't have to abide by the controls- because they were exempt or because the controls wouldn't exist in the first place. |
|
Quoted:
Pardon my lack of reading comprehension but I don't understand what is in it for RRA or Springfield Armory. As I understand it, they are exempt from the new state law that requires state licensing to sell firearms and limits the number of sales per month. But RRA and Springfield Armory sell through these same distributors/FFL's that they reportedly screwed. By supporting the law, they have limited their sales. It seems the "exemption" is irrelevant unless you can go to the factory and buy directly from these manufacturers. What am I missing? Limit buying,transfers to 9 a year This is enough for me... |