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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:02:27 PM EDT
[#1]
Quoted:
Seriously, I call BS, Jay wolf is a known liar, and BS artist. If any of you team members remember the thread where elite has a customer blacklist that they posted publicly on their website, mostly full of people trying to get a refund, when elite couldnt deliver their ammo based on their Pay now, deliver when it might be available business model.. IF any of you remember what happened between him and Arfcom member Black-x Wow, some new info. I sent this:
Lisa, Thanks for being anti-American and working hard to fight the Second Amendment. There are others out there like you and I will be sure to keep you on my blacklist of ammo manufacturers not buy from. Later comrade. -X Here's the responses I've received: Hey tough guy next time you feel like pushing some one around try Me instead of a girl. FYI one of our longtime friends and customers works for the NSA. I just dropped him a note. 100 rounds of our LEO only ammo in trade for all the info He can dig up on you. So keep on harassing my wife and your world is going to get very interesting for you. Jay Wolf Pr. Elite Ammunition 815.814.0847 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting 815.814.0847 end_of_the_skype_highlighting www.eliteammunition.com www.fivesevenforum.com ––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––- I don't know who the hell you are so why don't you be man enough to tell me your name instead of sending an email from a new address and signing it X. And I don't really care if you have me on your blacklist because I have many customers who are happy with our products & services and don't do stupid things to get banned from buying from the ONLY aftermarket company making 5.7x28mm ammunition. So when you are ready to show your true identity than contact me. Our ban list is short so it could only be one of 5 people. –––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––– Because you decided you could not understand the nationwide industry problem with getting supplies and were really rude to me that is why you were banned from our company. As I stated to you at the other email address earlier today. Please stop playing games. I have real customers who actually need to be tended too. Lisa Wolf Elite Ammunition Customer Service Manager www.eliteammunition.com www.57forum.com (panzermk2wife) If you have team, heres the archieved thread. Elite ammunition blacklist I'm encouraged by this development. Hopefully this whole story is based on bullshit. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:04:09 PM EDT
[#2]
Great.
They make .50 BMG pistols now too. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:05:16 PM EDT
[#3]
Thread title change.
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:05:45 PM EDT
[#4]
I dont know if BS or not but I dont want to ask questions of the ATF and give them any ideas.
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:09:18 PM EDT
[#5]
Awaiting more info from emails to them.
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:09:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Does this also mean under 21 = no .223?
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:11:38 PM EDT
[#7]
Quoted:
Does this also mean under 21 = no .223? NO. ATF's stance regarding armor piercing ammo is just ammo that CAN be used in a pistol. .223 is still rifle ammo, even though there are pistols that can chamber it. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:12:01 PM EDT
[#8]
if this is just drama from elite ammuntion, they need to be blacklisted. They sound like class A jerks.
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:12:45 PM EDT
[#9]
Quoted: Seriously, I call BS, Jay wolf is a known liar, and BS artist. If any of you team members remember the thread where elite has a customer blacklist that they posted publicly on their website, mostly full of people trying to get a refund, when elite couldnt deliver their ammo based on their Pay now, deliver when it might be available business model.. IF any of you remember what happened between him and Arfcom member Black-x <snip> If you have team, heres the archieved thread. Elite ammunition blacklist Oh yeah - I remember that now.  |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:13:25 PM EDT
[#10]
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:19:13 PM EDT
[#11]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Got a guy over at ar15armory that says he found out about it when he got raided..... No details other than that wait a minute, so now we have vendors getting raided and having their property STOLEN????? shits gone far enough. things need to be put into motion that can't be undone.  Let's remember what happened to CavArms. 
I suspect there is more to this story. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:20:49 PM EDT
[#12]
Quoted:
Seriously, I call BS, Jay wolf is a known liar, and BS artist. Anything having anything to do with Elite Ammunition should be taken with a grain of salt the size of the Great Salt Lake. Honesty and integrity are not synonyms with them. Its funny, two firearms related companies with the shittiest reputation for class, ethics, quality, etc both use Elite in their titles. Jay Wolf at Elite Ammunition, "Dingleberry" Dave Michener at Elite Arms. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:21:27 PM EDT
[#13]
Stand down all you drama queens.
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:21:56 PM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
Stand down all you drama queens. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:23:42 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted:
Stand down all you drama queens. Title change #2 ETA I would still like to know if these calibers are indeed classed as handgun rounds. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:25:08 PM EDT
[#16]
This government is one big clusterfuck |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:26:34 PM EDT
[#17]
Quoted: Quoted: Stand down all you drama queens. Title change #2 ETA I would still like to know if these calibers are indeed classed as handgun rounds. Ha! I knew it!  |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:30:01 PM EDT
[#18]
So I guess they'll join the ranks of Ammo Man?
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:30:16 PM EDT
[#19]
I knew it was BS, I came in to this thread with one title and left under another,
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:32:01 PM EDT
[#20]
Quoted:
If so, then this should only impact factory loaded ammo and not bullets (I think). So, to get AP bullets in .223 you would have to load your own and gven it is hard to find steel core bullets you would need to buy pulled bullets like we do now for the 7.62. That is just my oppinion without looking at it closer.
EDIT - this may not really affect M855 as the steel core is very small...
No chance on me shooting any of my M855 again! http://mcb-homis.com/blog/m855.jpg It doesn't affect M855 because the Secretary of the Treasury by fiat said that M855 is not "armor piercing". 'Cause he said so. Otherwise our military would be in violation of some treaty that forbade the use of AP ammo on enemy troops or somesuch. If you read the little booklets or rulings and such that they give to FFL's you might have come across that detail. http://www.ar15.com/archive/topic.html?b=1&f=5&t=579534 |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:32:33 PM EDT
[#21]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Ammo bans have always been mentioned in democrat/liberal strategy. also NSA, my brother has a friend that goes to church with him, he works for the NSA, he claims to have been in meetings about this subject. i was told this story roughly 10 years ago. who knows if it's true, but i don't doubt it Quoted:
Here's the responses I've received: Hey tough guy next time you feel like pushing some one around try Me instead of a girl. FYI one of our longtime friends and customers works for the NSA. I just dropped him a note. 100 rounds of our LEO only ammo in trade for all the info He can dig up on you. So keep on harassing my wife and your world is going to get very interesting for you. Jay Wolf Pr. Elite Ammunition 815.814.0847 begin_of_the_skype_highlighting www.eliteammunition.com www.fivesevenforum.com Strange that the NSA would be brought up twice. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:43:55 PM EDT
[#22]
I can't speak for what goes on with other arfcom members with Elite Ammo, but they have been above board with us over at 68 forums. They have handled themselves with class and integrity, and everyone that has had any dealings with them has been more than satisfied. There is an Elite Ammo thread over there concerning the development of the 6.8 projectiles and their interaction was very professional, and they did everything they could to meet our demands. Due to that, and to the overreaching nature of this administration, and the jackbooted tactics of the ATF under Holder, I tend to believe what Mike has said. There have been many cases lately where the ATF has overstepped it's bounds and has raided businesses without giving reason at times even to the accused, as well as not allowing the accused to release info to the public.
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:47:10 PM EDT
[#23]
Why not look at the above posts, then try and tell us Elite has been "above board".
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:48:07 PM EDT
[#24]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Stand down all you drama queens. Title change #2 ETA I would still like to know if these calibers are indeed classed as handgun rounds. It doesn't matter. They are capable of being fired in a handgun, and are regulated by the armor piercing manufacture restrictions. Some exclusions apply. There was a HUGE issue over someone making a 50 bmg pistol because it could have lead to all of the fun bullets being illegal. (there was a pistol made, but never put into production) |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:50:09 PM EDT
[#25]
Whether anyone likes Elite or not (I've never dealt with them) isn't what is important.
What IS important is if everyone's favorite agency is on a roll with new or revised tactics designed to limit our rights. If this is indeed a recent ruling, what else can they apply it to? |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:50:49 PM EDT
[#26]
Quoted:
I can't speak for what goes on with other arfcom members with Elite Ammo, but they have been above board with us over at 68 forums. They have handled themselves with class and integrity, and everyone that has had any dealings with them has been more than satisfied. There is an Elite Ammo thread over there concerning the development of the 6.8 projectiles and their interaction was very professional, and they did everything they could to meet our demands. Due to that, and to the overreaching nature of this administration, and the jackbooted tactics of the ATF under Holder, I tend to believe what Mike has said. There have been many cases lately where the ATF has overstepped it's bounds and has raided businesses without giving reason at times even to the accused, as well as not allowing the accused to release info to the public. That is all well and good, but EVERYTHING they mentioned has been in in the law books for years. The problem is they were making brass bullets, which is illegal if there are cartridges which production pistols are made. It is black and white. There is nothing new with ATF. Elite Ammo just didn't bother to look into the existing laws. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 1:51:21 PM EDT
[#27]
Quoted: I'm confused as to what the ultimate effect of this is? We all are |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 2:03:30 PM EDT
[#28]
Are you guys SURE there's not something to this???
I just checked at Wideners and when I click on loading components, mil-spec bullets, to order som SS109's and the website keeps locking up on me for some reason!?!?!? Are they changing the website? Pulling SS109's off the inventory? What's up with this??? |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 2:05:39 PM EDT
[#29]
Sounds like dude was a major asshole for his email to them to me, so why was he harassing Lisa? I'd be pissed too, and don't tell me none of you would if someone was mouthing off to your wife.
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Posted: 7/11/2011 2:13:54 PM EDT
[#30]
Ban them from ARFCOM!
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Posted: 7/11/2011 2:16:26 PM EDT
[#31]
Quoted:
Sounds like dude was a major asshole for his email to them to me, so why was he harassing Lisa? I'd be pissed too, and don't tell me none of you would if someone was mouthing off to your wife. Mixing business with your personal life, what do you expect. If you can't handle your wife getting some wiseacre emails, she probably shouldn't be your customer service rep. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 2:16:27 PM EDT
[#32]
Quoted:
That agency needs to be disbanned.
Strip them of their badges and make them toll collectors and national park maintenance men. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 2:18:33 PM EDT
[#33]
so can i get in trouble for having the T-6? I have like 40rounds.. for my ps90
i also own a fiveseven. what should i do! |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 2:18:42 PM EDT
[#34]
Quoted:
Sounds like dude was a major asshole for his email to them to me, so why was he harassing Lisa? I'd be pissed too, and don't tell me none of you would if someone was mouthing off to your wife. As a business owner I don't think I'd threaten a customer with the NSA |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 2:19:15 PM EDT
[#35]
From what im reading it seems they were making solid brass bullets, which is not allowed as a material to make solid bullets out of and selling them mostly for use in the Five seven handgun.
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Posted: 7/11/2011 2:22:12 PM EDT
[#36]
Quoted:
so can i get in trouble for having the T-6? I have like 40rounds.. for my ps90 i also own a fiveseven. what should i do! Shoot em! Reading the release from Elite, he says customers can expect to have BATFE contact them to retrieve unfired bullets in those calibers. Don't know how big the outfit is, or how many of the now taboo bullets they sold. Just stuff like this can set weird precedents. I dunno. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 2:23:41 PM EDT
[#37]
Quoted:
Strange that the NSA would be brought up twice. That's what I was going to post. You could read 1000 GD posts around here without any reference to that agency, and here it comes up twice. Hmmm. javascript:insertText('  ');
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Posted: 7/11/2011 2:27:09 PM EDT
[#38]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Strange that the NSA would be brought up twice. That's what I was going to post. You could read 1000 GD posts around here without any reference to that agency, and here it comes up twice. Hmmm. javascript:insertText(' ');There are 27 posts in GD in the past 30 days that mention the no such agency 
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Posted: 7/11/2011 2:38:54 PM EDT
[#39]
Quoted:
Seriously, I call BS, If any of you team members remember the thread where elite has a customer blacklist that they posted publicly on their website, mostly full of people trying to get a refund, when elite couldnt deliver their ammo based on their Pay now, deliver when it might be available business model.. IF any of you remember what happened between him and Arfcom member Black-x Wow, some new info. I sent this:
If you have team, heres the archieved thread. Elite ammunition blacklist What a bunch of fucks. They can eat my ass (or would that get the NSA called on me?) Fuck them. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 2:40:47 PM EDT
[#40]
Nevermind
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Posted: 7/11/2011 2:42:27 PM EDT
[#41]
Looks like a cluster fuck
Posted Via AR15.Com Mobile |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 2:43:04 PM EDT
[#42]
Lol, I saw this thread at work and was fully prepared to drop a grand on M855 when I got home
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Posted: 7/11/2011 2:56:23 PM EDT
[#43]
Quoted:
Are you guys SURE there's not something to this??? I just checked at Wideners and when I click on loading components, mil-spec bullets, to order som SS109's and the website keeps locking up on me for some reason!?!?!? Are they changing the website? Pulling SS109's off the inventory? What's up with this??? Im breaking out the tinfoil hat now....
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Posted: 7/11/2011 3:00:20 PM EDT
[#44]
Quoted: SNIP So while a handful of perfectly good bullets may meet their demise because of this crazy administrative ruling, the sky isn't falling just yet. It just fell a few more feet is all...chipping away a little bit at a time |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 3:01:30 PM EDT
[#45]
Wonder why he was banned from fnforum?
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Posted: 7/11/2011 3:11:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Seriously, I call BS, Jay wolf is a known liar, and BS artist. If any of you team members remember the thread where elite has a customer blacklist that they posted publicly on their website, mostly full of people trying to get a refund, when elite couldnt deliver their ammo based on their Pay now, deliver when it might be available business model.. IF any of you remember what happened between him and Arfcom member Black-x <snip>
If you have team, heres the archieved thread. Elite ammunition blacklist Oh yeah - I remember that now.
Not the worst I've read about these guys, seriously they have some mall ninja vibe going on there. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 3:13:07 PM EDT
[#47]
Quoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like dude was a major asshole for his email to them to me, so why was he harassing Lisa? I'd be pissed too, and don't tell me none of you would if someone was mouthing off to your wife. Mixing business with your personal life, what do you expect. If you can't handle your wife getting some wiseacre emails, she probably shouldn't be your customer service rep. Yeah, and I'm sure his friend with the NSA will get right on violating a whole bunch of laws to trace that email for him. He's butthurt, you know. To the NSA that's serious business. 
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Posted: 7/11/2011 3:15:52 PM EDT
[#48]
Quoted: As a business owner I don't think I'd threaten a customer with the NSA Indeed. Despite the fact that it was almost certainly an empty threat, any .Gov employee that would use Federal resources to provide information to a private party for the price of a few boxes of ammunition would quickly find himself in a world of shit. |
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Posted: 7/11/2011 3:19:31 PM EDT
[#49]
Tag for outcome
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Posted: 7/11/2011 3:20:49 PM EDT
[#50]
Quoted:
Sounds like dude was a major asshole for his email to them to me, so why was he harassing Lisa? I'd be pissed too, and don't tell me none of you would if someone was mouthing off to your wife. Yeah, shame on him for wanting what he paid for. There were a lot of people who paid for ammo, and waited MONTHS or more, for it. When they complained, they were blacklisted. Shame on them all for being consumers. Fuck Lisa, whoever. Fuck the owner for supposedly bribing a government agency. If you think thats acceptable business practice, there is no hope for you. |
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