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Posted: 7/7/2021 2:42:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Throwing out a mostly positive trend because of outliers is terrible thinking, tho. If it works for most people, then it's a good baseline, that's really what the whole point here is. We shouldn't start with the assumption that people should be working long hours and that's the maximal productive state and then adjust willy nilly. We should assume most human beings do better with some work life balance, and are more productive when they have it, and then allow that sometimes under some conditions (like surgeons and long haul truckers) you need people to be able to hang in there and recruit those individuals who thrive under that. Most people do not. In almost every study I've seen where people were incentivized to work harder with more free time, they thrived and the business did not encounter a negative impact to their output or bottom line. It's hard to believe that's a controversial opinion, because occupational studies have backed it up since the dawn of occupational studies, but here we are. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In general I would agree, but each individual circumstance is different which is why general conclusions will always have exceptions. You can't have human beings are not machines and also have humans are the most productive when the work 8.75 hours per day for 4 days. Just because most people would be happy with that doesn't mean it works for everybody. Managers, manage a schedule while leaders, develop a productive team that finds a good balance for all. Throwing out a mostly positive trend because of outliers is terrible thinking, tho. If it works for most people, then it's a good baseline, that's really what the whole point here is. We shouldn't start with the assumption that people should be working long hours and that's the maximal productive state and then adjust willy nilly. We should assume most human beings do better with some work life balance, and are more productive when they have it, and then allow that sometimes under some conditions (like surgeons and long haul truckers) you need people to be able to hang in there and recruit those individuals who thrive under that. Most people do not. In almost every study I've seen where people were incentivized to work harder with more free time, they thrived and the business did not encounter a negative impact to their output or bottom line. It's hard to believe that's a controversial opinion, because occupational studies have backed it up since the dawn of occupational studies, but here we are. There's that fag talk again.  |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 2:44:04 PM EDT
[#2]
I demand 3 ten hour days
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Posted: 7/7/2021 2:44:05 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Throwing out a mostly positive trend because of outliers is terrible thinking, tho. If it works for most people, then it's a good baseline, that's really what the whole point here is. We shouldn't start with the assumption that people should be working long hours and that's the maximal productive state and then adjust willy nilly. We should assume most human beings do better with some work life balance, and are more productive when they have it, and then allow that sometimes under some conditions (like surgeons and long haul truckers) you need people to be able to hang in there and recruit those individuals who thrive under that. Most people do not. In almost every study I've seen where people were incentivized to work harder with more free time, they thrived and the business did not encounter a negative impact to their output or bottom line. It's hard to believe that's a controversial opinion, because occupational studies have backed it up since the dawn of occupational studies, but here we are. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: In general I would agree, but each individual circumstance is different which is why general conclusions will always have exceptions. You can't have human beings are not machines and also have humans are the most productive when the work 8.75 hours per day for 4 days. Just because most people would be happy with that doesn't mean it works for everybody. Managers, manage a schedule while leaders, develop a productive team that finds a good balance for all. Throwing out a mostly positive trend because of outliers is terrible thinking, tho. If it works for most people, then it's a good baseline, that's really what the whole point here is. We shouldn't start with the assumption that people should be working long hours and that's the maximal productive state and then adjust willy nilly. We should assume most human beings do better with some work life balance, and are more productive when they have it, and then allow that sometimes under some conditions (like surgeons and long haul truckers) you need people to be able to hang in there and recruit those individuals who thrive under that. Most people do not. In almost every study I've seen where people were incentivized to work harder with more free time, they thrived and the business did not encounter a negative impact to their output or bottom line. It's hard to believe that's a controversial opinion, because occupational studies have backed it up since the dawn of occupational studies, but here we are. It's the old idea of "my life sucks and I have to work my balls off to make ends meet, so by god- you should have to also even if it doesn't make sense" |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 2:45:11 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I demand 3 ten hour days Sure. If you can produce the same as someone working 5/8s or 4/9s I'd be totally fine with that. Hell, I'd even pay you for 40 hours work. IF you produce the same. What's the debate about? |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 2:45:19 PM EDT
[#5]
Quote HistoryQuoted: THAT'S SOME MILLENNIAL BULLSHIT REAL MEN WORK NO LESS THAN 12 HOURS A DAY AND HATE THEIR WIVES My favorite part is how we're discussing working fewer HOURS but producing the SAME RESULTS then Ultra Boomer comes in here with verbal diarrhea talking about paying people to be special, when in fact people without reading comprehension problems realize we're talking about paying people to do more work in less time, which is a win-win for everyone. The ultimate irony behind all of this boomer chest-puffing and back-patting, is that they are the generation who worked significantly less hours than their parents did, and the 'lazy millennials/zoomers" work just about the same hours they did:  The average amount of hours worked per employee is essentially unchanged since the early 80s |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 2:46:20 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ultimate irony behind all of this boomer chest-puffing and back-patting, is that they are the generation who worked significantly less hours than their parents did, and the 'lazy millennials/zoomers" work just about the same hours they did: https://humanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/work.hours.png The average amount of hours worked per employee is essentially unchanged since the early 80s Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: THAT'S SOME MILLENNIAL BULLSHIT REAL MEN WORK NO LESS THAN 12 HOURS A DAY AND HATE THEIR WIVES My favorite part is how we're discussing working fewer HOURS but producing the SAME RESULTS then Ultra Boomer comes in here with verbal diarrhea talking about paying people to be special, when in fact people without reading comprehension problems realize we're talking about paying people to do more work in less time, which is a win-win for everyone. The ultimate irony behind all of this boomer chest-puffing and back-patting, is that they are the generation who worked significantly less hours than their parents did, and the 'lazy millennials/zoomers" work just about the same hours they did: https://humanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/work.hours.png The average amount of hours worked per employee is essentially unchanged since the early 80s This is when they come in and say "THAT MUST HAVE BEEN NICE I'M AN OUTLIER BUT EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS WRONG ANYWAY" |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 2:59:12 PM EDT
[#7]
My job thought it would be best to take away our PTO system for one you have to work for and borrow time from the company until you accrue enough PTO for yourself, so they can take it away from you every year and have to start over borrowing from the company. And if you are negative PTO and they let you go, they take money from your paycheck for pay for your PTO.
You also can't sell your PTO back. It's clear as day, the head honchos at the corporate office structured our PTO in a way where it discourages taking time off. Because if an employee takes time off to go on vacation, then they aren't being productive to the company. Work flow hasn't stopped for us. But corporate used COVID as an excuse to save money by laying off some employees, and no intent to replace anyone who quits either. Also by removing our 401k matching. CEO said "he authorized a $10k/yr pay cut to himself" to so he wouldn't have to let anyone else go.... I saw he owns 2 more vacation properties/homes bringing the total to 3 now since COVID. He also takes client CEOs who never leave the 50-floor buildings for work on lavish business trips and hunts around the world for "customer appreciation and retention". Meanwhile we lose the extra 401k we had since forever, our PTO, our bonuses, and we work longer to make up for missing employees. Which is funny because if we had a tight month, they didn't want us working OT if we could avoid it. But during COVID when corporate was worried about money, they authorized at much OT as needed without question. Makes not a fucking sense. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 3:00:25 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: WE'RE REACHING LEVELS OF BOOMER THAT ARE PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT IMPOSSIBLE Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Sounds like typical millennial “I deserve more/just as much pay for doing/being here less” bs to me. You want paid? You do the job you signed up for, whatever those hours may be. Don’t like it? Find a different job for your creampuff sensitivity expectations. Or, or...start your own business and run it to where no employees ever have to show up, or do anything at all. Just pay them for being special. There’s a reason that there are employees, and there are owners. WE'RE REACHING LEVELS OF BOOMER THAT ARE PREVIOUSLY THOUGHT IMPOSSIBLE THERE ARE LEVELS OF BOOMER WE ARE PREPARED TO ACCEPT |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 3:01:28 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's that fag talk again. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: In general I would agree, but each individual circumstance is different which is why general conclusions will always have exceptions. You can't have human beings are not machines and also have humans are the most productive when the work 8.75 hours per day for 4 days. Just because most people would be happy with that doesn't mean it works for everybody. Managers, manage a schedule while leaders, develop a productive team that finds a good balance for all. Throwing out a mostly positive trend because of outliers is terrible thinking, tho. If it works for most people, then it's a good baseline, that's really what the whole point here is. We shouldn't start with the assumption that people should be working long hours and that's the maximal productive state and then adjust willy nilly. We should assume most human beings do better with some work life balance, and are more productive when they have it, and then allow that sometimes under some conditions (like surgeons and long haul truckers) you need people to be able to hang in there and recruit those individuals who thrive under that. Most people do not. In almost every study I've seen where people were incentivized to work harder with more free time, they thrived and the business did not encounter a negative impact to their output or bottom line. It's hard to believe that's a controversial opinion, because occupational studies have backed it up since the dawn of occupational studies, but here we are. There's that fag talk again. 
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Posted: 7/7/2021 3:02:08 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My job thought it would be best to take away our PTO system for one you have to work for and borrow time from the company until you accrue enough PTO for yourself, so they can take it away from you every year and have to start over borrowing from the company. And if you are negative PTO and they let you go, they take money from your paycheck for pay for your PTO. You also can't sell your PTO back. It's clear as day, the head honchos at the corporate office structured our PTO in a way where it discourages taking time off. Because if an employee takes time off to go on vacation, then they aren't being productive to the company. Work flow hasn't stopped for us. But corporate used COVID as an excuse to save money by laying off some employees, and no intent to replace anyone who quits either. Also by removing our 401k matching. CEO said "he authorized a $10k/yr pay cut to himself" to so he wouldn't have to let anyone else go.... I saw he owns 2 more vacation properties/homes bringing the total to 3 now since COVID. He also takes client CEOs who never leave the 50-floor buildings for work on lavish business trips and hunts around the world for "customer appreciation and retention". Meanwhile we lose the extra 401k we had since forever, our PTO, our bonuses, and we work longer to make up for missing employees. Which is funny because if we had a tight month, they didn't want us working OT if we could avoid it. But during COVID when corporate was worried about money, they authorized at much OT as needed. Makes not a fucking sense. Find a different employer. You can probably get a large raise in this job market doing so. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 3:03:28 PM EDT
[#11]
I used to work five 8 hour days. We were given the option to switch to four 10 hour days, but we still had to cover core business hours.
Some people wanted to work Mon - Thur and have a 3 day weekend. Some people wanted to work Tue - Fri and have a 3 day weekend. I chose to work Mon and Tue, Thur and Fri, with Wed off. I miss that. Work 2, off 1, work 2, off 2, etc. Never worked more than 2 days in a row. It was great while it lasted. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 3:06:32 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Find a different employer. You can probably get a large raise in this job market. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: My job thought it would be best to take away our PTO system for one you have to work for and borrow time from the company until you accrue enough PTO for yourself, so they can take it away from you every year and have to start over borrowing from the company. And if you are negative PTO and they let you go, they take money from your paycheck for pay for your PTO. You also can't sell your PTO back. It's clear as day, the head honchos at the corporate office structured our PTO in a way where it discourages taking time off. Because if an employee takes time off to go on vacation, then they aren't being productive to the company. Work flow hasn't stopped for us. But corporate used COVID as an excuse to save money by laying off some employees, and no intent to replace anyone who quits either. Also by removing our 401k matching. CEO said "he authorized a $10k/yr pay cut to himself" to so he wouldn't have to let anyone else go.... I saw he owns 2 more vacation properties/homes bringing the total to 3 now since COVID. He also takes client CEOs who never leave the 50-floor buildings for work on lavish business trips and hunts around the world for "customer appreciation and retention". Meanwhile we lose the extra 401k we had since forever, our PTO, our bonuses, and we work longer to make up for missing employees. Which is funny because if we had a tight month, they didn't want us working OT if we could avoid it. But during COVID when corporate was worried about money, they authorized at much OT as needed. Makes not a fucking sense. Find a different employer. You can probably get a large raise in this job market. Unfortunately, I work in the oilfield in a lab. I could easily make 3x what I make at a company that's not a service company (ie our clients). And by unfortunately, it's all who you know around here, not experience (I've tried) |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 3:06:55 PM EDT
[#13]
I like my 5 days 8 hrs a day. I’m done by 1:30 pm and have a shot ton of free time. I was also able to spend a ton of time with my kids when they were young which is priceless to me.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 3:32:50 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I like my 5 days 8 hrs a day. I’m done by 1:30 pm and have a shot ton of free time. I was also able to spend a ton of time with my kids when they were young which is priceless to me. And, in my experience, you produce more in those 7 hours than you would a 10 or 12 hour day. When I was earning revenue for the company, I enjoyed five 8 hour days because I felt like I was off work more than I was at it. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 3:48:31 PM EDT
[#15]
Friend works for a municipality in fleet maintenance. When he was a mechanic he worked 4-10's and loved it.
Then he took a management position and has to work 5 days a week. While he likes the pay increase he does not like the new hours. He was the one who spearheaded getting the guys onto a 4-10's schedule and they all still love it. Working 4-10's is nice IF you get Friday off. What if you got Wednesday off? That would suck |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 3:59:01 PM EDT
[#16]
Human beings have never been more productive than they are today despite all the Boomer bullshit about the younger generations being lazy.
Medieval serfs had more vacation days than we presently do (mostly religious holidays, but still). Technology has significant increased productivity. Think about that, think about how productive you could have been in the 1980's before even fax machines were common. Technology was supposed to free up our time, give us the ability to stay just as productive as our fathers and grandfathers while having more free time to improve ourselves and our relationships. Instead all technology has done is lead to an expectation that every single year our productivity increases. Meanwhile wages are largely stagnant and cost of living continues to rise. It's bullshit. The problem is that corporations are in a Mexican standoff with another. No company wants to be the first to not exponentially increase productivity every single year. The other issue is that no single country is going to want to be the one to not exponentially increase its productivity every year. If we don't exponentially increase productivity our enemies will and our allies will trade with them giving our enemies strength. We need some type of international agreement to mandate a better work life balance that includes strict tariffs for those nations that don't participate in it. Good luck making that happen. That's pie in the sky stuff I'm afraid. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 3:59:55 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Throwing out a mostly positive trend because of outliers is terrible thinking, tho. If it works for most people, then it's a good baseline, that's really what the whole point here is. We shouldn't start with the assumption that people should be working long hours and that's the maximal productive state and then adjust willy nilly. We should assume most human beings do better with some work life balance, and are more productive when they have it, and then allow that sometimes under some conditions (like surgeons and long haul truckers) you need people to be able to hang in there and recruit those individuals who thrive under that. Most people do not. In almost every study I've seen where people were incentivized to work harder with more free time, they thrived and the business did not encounter a negative impact to their output or bottom line. It's hard to believe that's a controversial opinion, because occupational studies have backed it up since the dawn of occupational studies, but here we are. I think we are in agreement, a good work life balance creates better more productive employees. The point I was trying to make is that bad management is the cause of bad work life balance. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 4:00:23 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Human beings have never been more productive than they are today despite all the Boomer bullshit about the younger generations being lazy. Medieval serfs had more vacation days than we presently do (mostly religious holidays, but still). Technology has significant increased productivity. Think about that, think about how productive you could have been in the 1980's before even fax machines were common. Technology was supposed to free up our time, give us the ability to stay just as productive as our fathers and grandfathers while having more free time to improve ourselves and our relationships. Instead all technology has done is lead to an expectation that every single year our productivity increases. Meanwhile wages are largely stagnant and cost of living continues to rise. It's bullshit. The problem is that corporations are in a Mexican standoff with another. No company wants to be the first to not exponentially increase productivity every single year. The other issue is that no single country is going to want to be the one to not exponentially increase its productivity every year. If we don't exponentially increase productivity our enemies will and our allies will trade with them giving our enemies strength. We need some type of international agreement to mandate a better work life balance that includes strict tariffs for those nations that don't participate in it. Good luck making that happen. That's pie in the sky stuff I'm afraid. But boomers spend a lot more time and effort doing less... so they have that going for them.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 4:02:24 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The ultimate irony behind all of this boomer chest-puffing and back-patting, is that they are the generation who worked significantly less hours than their parents did, and the 'lazy millennials/zoomers" work just about the same hours they did: https://humanprogress.org/wp-content/uploads/2020/09/work.hours.png The average amount of hours worked per employee is essentially unchanged since the early 80s Boomers are so full of shit. Most hypocritical generation that's ever walked the planet. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 4:08:47 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But boomers spend a lot more time and effort doing less... so they have that going for them. Don't get started about the boomers. I'm looking forward to the fact that in about ten years the boomers will be out of power and Generation X will be in power. Those boomers are hanging on as long as they can, never seen people so adverse to retirement. We've got boomers who have been working in my career field since the freaking 1970's and are now slowly being forced to retire or having health issues that keep them from staying on. It's like, go spend times with your grandkids and your wife doing something other than work. We've got highly competent Generation X and even Millennials who can't move up and we're losing some of them to other endeavors. Boomers need to step aside. They've had their opportunity and they've made a mess of things. Time for them to retire. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 4:11:41 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think we are in agreement, a good work life balance creates better more productive employees. The point I was trying to make is that bad management is the cause of bad work life balance. I agree with that...bad management is at the root of all employment problems, at the micro/company scale. Hiring, staffing, motivation, incentives, culture, retention, discipline, it all is a function of management. The quality of employee is an outside function....management brings them in, same as they do a vendor or a machine. If it's fucked up, management again. The ARFcom boss squad hates when you point that out, but there's no debate there. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 4:16:31 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Working 4-10's is nice IF you get Friday off. What if you got Wednesday off? That would suck Nah, it's great. Work two days, get some rest and be able to do things during the very non-busy week. Lakes aren't crowded, businesses are yours to frequent, banks there's no line. Then, back to work for 2 days and pow...weekend. I loved that kind of schedule when I had it. I actually liked going to work and really enjoyed kicking ass for 2 days. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 4:17:57 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with that...bad management is at the root of all employment problems, at the micro/company scale. Hiring, staffing, motivation, incentives, culture, retention, discipline, it all is a function of management. The quality of employee is an outside function....management brings them in, same as they do a vendor or a machine. If it's fucked up, management again. The ARFcom boss squad hates when you point that out, but there's no debate there. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I think we are in agreement, a good work life balance creates better more productive employees. The point I was trying to make is that bad management is the cause of bad work life balance. I agree with that...bad management is at the root of all employment problems, at the micro/company scale. Hiring, staffing, motivation, incentives, culture, retention, discipline, it all is a function of management. The quality of employee is an outside function....management brings them in, same as they do a vendor or a machine. If it's fucked up, management again. The ARFcom boss squad hates when you point that out, but there's no debate there. I 100% agree with these statements. I am leaving my job in healthcare of nearly eight years due to bad management. Everything else about my job should have been great. I've hung on far too long with these issues. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 4:24:30 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10 hours makes for a long work day. A few weeks of that will drag on you especially when you no longer make overtime past the 8 hour mark which is a psychological motivator. However, having 3 days off would be awesome. Not entirely sure which way I'd prefer. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 4:25:17 PM EDT
[#25]
If you don't come in on Saturday, don't bother coming in on Sunday.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 4:31:31 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Don't get started about the boomers. I'm looking forward to the fact that in about ten years the boomers will be out of power and Generation X will be in power. Those boomers are hanging on as long as they can, never seen people so adverse to retirement. We've got boomers who have been working in my career field since the freaking 1970's and are now slowly being forced to retire or having health issues that keep them from staying on. It's like, go spend times with your grandkids and your wife doing something other than work. We've got highly competent Generation X and even Millennials who can't move up and we're losing some of them to other endeavors. Boomers need to step aside. They've had their opportunity and they've made a mess of things. Time for them to retire. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: But boomers spend a lot more time and effort doing less... so they have that going for them. Don't get started about the boomers. I'm looking forward to the fact that in about ten years the boomers will be out of power and Generation X will be in power. Those boomers are hanging on as long as they can, never seen people so adverse to retirement. We've got boomers who have been working in my career field since the freaking 1970's and are now slowly being forced to retire or having health issues that keep them from staying on. It's like, go spend times with your grandkids and your wife doing something other than work. We've got highly competent Generation X and even Millennials who can't move up and we're losing some of them to other endeavors. Boomers need to step aside. They've had their opportunity and they've made a mess of things. Time for them to retire. There's not a boomer in a job that's holding the young studs and studettes back from stepping up and taking charge. Now, get to it! . |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 4:50:41 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I work outside (surveyor) , the heat is kicking my ass at 8 hrs a day. Add 2 more hours , I'd probably stroke out . I love the idea , I couldn't do it in the summer . move to iceland. 
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Posted: 7/7/2021 4:53:03 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's the old idea of "my life sucks and I have to work my balls off to make ends meet, so by god- you should have to also even if it doesn't make sense" Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: In general I would agree, but each individual circumstance is different which is why general conclusions will always have exceptions. You can't have human beings are not machines and also have humans are the most productive when the work 8.75 hours per day for 4 days. Just because most people would be happy with that doesn't mean it works for everybody. Managers, manage a schedule while leaders, develop a productive team that finds a good balance for all. Throwing out a mostly positive trend because of outliers is terrible thinking, tho. If it works for most people, then it's a good baseline, that's really what the whole point here is. We shouldn't start with the assumption that people should be working long hours and that's the maximal productive state and then adjust willy nilly. We should assume most human beings do better with some work life balance, and are more productive when they have it, and then allow that sometimes under some conditions (like surgeons and long haul truckers) you need people to be able to hang in there and recruit those individuals who thrive under that. Most people do not. In almost every study I've seen where people were incentivized to work harder with more free time, they thrived and the business did not encounter a negative impact to their output or bottom line. It's hard to believe that's a controversial opinion, because occupational studies have backed it up since the dawn of occupational studies, but here we are. It's the old idea of "my life sucks and I have to work my balls off to make ends meet, so by god- you should have to also even if it doesn't make sense" So many people here in GD feel their life is meaningless if they don't grind themself to a nub working (preferrably with free overtime) at a job that doesn't give a shit about them. They are afraid not to work every minute because somehow they feel like a failure because they can't see themselves having any value except as a cog in the machine. I pity their empty, wasted lives. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 4:54:37 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's not a boomer in a job that's holding the young studs and studettes back from stepping up and taking charge. Now, get to it! . Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: But boomers spend a lot more time and effort doing less... so they have that going for them. Don't get started about the boomers. I'm looking forward to the fact that in about ten years the boomers will be out of power and Generation X will be in power. Those boomers are hanging on as long as they can, never seen people so adverse to retirement. We've got boomers who have been working in my career field since the freaking 1970's and are now slowly being forced to retire or having health issues that keep them from staying on. It's like, go spend times with your grandkids and your wife doing something other than work. We've got highly competent Generation X and even Millennials who can't move up and we're losing some of them to other endeavors. Boomers need to step aside. They've had their opportunity and they've made a mess of things. Time for them to retire. There's not a boomer in a job that's holding the young studs and studettes back from stepping up and taking charge. Now, get to it! . I'm not that young anymore, but too young to be a Boomer (thank god). I have NO desire to be in charge. Highly skilled, well paid, hiding on an off shift doing not much of anything for as little time as possible until my wife inherits her millions. Then it's nap time. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 4:55:09 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Used to be on 12's, with a rotating long/short week. After I got used to it, it was great. I would prefer the longer shifts with more days off, having done it for a while. Probably personal preference, but I had a lot of range time available to me, and whatever else I needed to get done was easy to make time for. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 10 hours makes for a long work day. A few weeks of that will drag on you especially when you no longer make overtime past the 8 hour mark which is a psychological motivator. However, having 3 days off would be awesome. Not entirely sure which way I'd prefer. I'd work 24s or 48s like a fireman if I could. Sounds like Heaven. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 4:55:52 PM EDT
[#31]
my company has summer hours, done for 12pm fridays, still full pay and off between christmas and new years
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Posted: 7/7/2021 4:59:29 PM EDT
[#32]
I'd love to do 4 10s again, did it for a while as a contractor
but I'm an IT desk jockey, might be a different story if i had a physically demanding job |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 6:50:08 PM EDT
[#33]
4 day week vs 5 day week productivity is going to vary by the type of work.
A lot of office work is done by "knowledge workers." Being on an assembly line is not "knowledge work." I don't know if Google still has this program, but for many years they had 20% time - 80% of your time was spent on company assigned projects, and 20% was whatever you wanted to do, with the constraint it had to be for the benefit of the company. It could be a speculative / experimental project for example. Several of Google's flagship products came out of 20% time. Conversely if you have a middle manager who doesn't understand the relationship between stress and massive productivity and quality drops in knowledge work, they will try to hard-press your knowledge workers, and destroy productivity. PMO's are notorious for this and in software engineering, Agile is the answer to it. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 6:56:46 PM EDT
[#34]
24/72
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Posted: 7/7/2021 7:16:04 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10 hours makes for a long work day. A few weeks of that will drag on you especially when you no longer make overtime past the 8 hour mark which is a psychological motivator. However, having 3 days off would be awesome. Not entirely sure which way I'd prefer. your 1st 2 sentences are false. Have you ever worked a 4-10 schedule? That being said. For sales and Biz Dev jobs, an extra day at work means more availability for your clients, more calls, more face time, more sales, more revenue and revenue is the lifeblood of a business. I don't see this catching on. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 7:22:44 PM EDT
[#36]
I recently had a chance to take a 4 10 job but it would require a 30-60K pay cut and I’d lose the ability to work alone. I probably made the right choice staying with my five day work week.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 7:27:47 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It isn't the hours, it isn't the days of the week, it isn't the shift preference, it isn't the work, it is shitty management that makes a company unbearable. This is why I walked from a job that I thoroughly enjoyed otherwise. Company was bought out by a corporate borg, new management was/is .. shall we say a clusterfuck. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 7:29:22 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It isn't the hours, it isn't the days of the week, it isn't the shift preference, it isn't the work, it is shitty management that makes a company unbearable.  Attached File |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 7:29:48 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Makes sense to me. 4 ten hour days is logically more productive than 5 eights. That's 20% fewer groggy mornings, and 50% more weekend fun time. A lot of crews doing state work here run 4 10's, most seem to like it. Sometimes though, you just need to work all the hours, especially in construction. If we get rained out a few days in a row, we have to put a few 12 hour days in, maybe a Saturday or two also to catch back up, just the way it is in some industries. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 7:30:39 PM EDT
[#40]
I rather work 4 10s, m-thursday or tuesday-friday, this is also good for the environment less driving right?!
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Posted: 7/7/2021 7:36:23 PM EDT
[#41]
Remote makes happy workers.
For no good reason at all I've had to go into the office for the last few weeks instead of working remote. I'm now shitting away 10-15 hours a week staring at brake lights and wasting gas, all so I can do the exact same shit I did at home, but now from the office because it's all of 5 seconds more efficient to shout to the next cube instead of doing a Skype call. Could I just spend additional time working from home instead of wasting time in traffic? No, they "need" me in the office. So now I'm more strung out and tired from dealing with this cutthroat, dogshit Atlanta traffic and definitely a less happy worker. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 7:37:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Previously worked a job that did 4-10s. I would gladly go back to that schedule.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 7:40:44 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 10 hours makes for a long work day. A few weeks of that will drag on you especially when you no longer make overtime past the 8 hour mark which is a psychological motivator. However, having 3 days off would be awesome. Not entirely sure which way I'd prefer. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 7:41:29 PM EDT
[#44]
The findings make sense, but it’s obviously facts and circumstances based. It largely doesn’t work for retail/service jobs, where being at work is part of the work, even if no customers happen to be in the store at that moment.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 7:46:17 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The findings make sense, but it's obviously facts and circumstances based. It largely doesn't work for retail/service jobs, where being at work is part of the work, even if no customers happen to be in the store at that moment. I think we've covered this many times already, but you're confusing staffing issues with individual shift/productivity issues. Even an idle store worker has tasks to complete (usually straightening up, stocking, cleaning), so productivity still comes into play, and if they aren't there because their work schedule is shorter than the business hours, this is a routine part of most retail....overlapping employees and shifts take care of that, usually by stacking workers to meet demand. It doesn't work for ALL retail....say a small mom and pop with a single or two workers, but obviously in a busy store with many employees, the same would probably still apply....as it would most task-oriented jobs. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 7:48:35 PM EDT
[#46]
I can dig it. Unfortunately never happen for my business.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 7:52:25 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think we've covered this many times already, but you're confusing staffing issues with individual shift/productivity issues. Even an idle store worker has tasks to complete (usually straightening up, stocking, cleaning), so productivity still comes into play, and if they aren't there because their work schedule is shorter than the business hours, this is a routine part of most retail....overlapping employees and shifts take care of that, usually by stacking workers to meet demand. It doesn't work for ALL retail....say a small mom and pop with a single or two workers, but obviously in a busy store with many employees, the same would probably still apply....as it would most task-oriented jobs. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The findings make sense, but it's obviously facts and circumstances based. It largely doesn't work for retail/service jobs, where being at work is part of the work, even if no customers happen to be in the store at that moment. I think we've covered this many times already, but you're confusing staffing issues with individual shift/productivity issues. Even an idle store worker has tasks to complete (usually straightening up, stocking, cleaning), so productivity still comes into play, and if they aren't there because their work schedule is shorter than the business hours, this is a routine part of most retail....overlapping employees and shifts take care of that, usually by stacking workers to meet demand. It doesn't work for ALL retail....say a small mom and pop with a single or two workers, but obviously in a busy store with many employees, the same would probably still apply....as it would most task-oriented jobs. Apologies, I haven’t read the whole thread. So it may be ground already tread. My thinking is that some people are paid for production, some are paid for availability/being there, and some are paid for both. An obvious example is a night security guard. They are paid to be there. So cutting their time by 20% doesn’t serve much good. Most retail is a combination of productivity and availability. But largely weighted to availability, which is why the pay is low. A warm body is more important than a highly productive person. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 7:54:22 PM EDT
[#48]
My co-workers and I often say we’d work linger days to have a 4 day work week.
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Posted: 7/7/2021 8:02:03 PM EDT
[#49]
When I worked in a warehouse I absolutely loved working 4 tens. It was usually 4 twelves with mandatory overtime, but 3 days off made it worthwhile.
Now, outage season is spring and fall, and it's 13 hour days 7 days a week. Some jobs we get a day off every two weeks, but in my opinion that's just overtime money I'm losing, since I'm already away from home I might as well clock hours instead of wasting time in a hotel. The only reason any of this is worth it is that I get summer and winter off, paid. Turnover in this field is pretty extraordinary, so it obviously isn't for everyone. |
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Posted: 7/7/2021 10:46:55 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There was also a study that says we should all be in 640 sq. ft. living spaces uses barely any electricity. We should also be eating mostly plants and bugs. To save the world. My faith in "studies" is...diminishing. |
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