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Posted: 8/22/2018 7:20:52 AM EDT
[#1]
Sorry about your dad OP. You are correct that the medical profession has gone over the edge. Some time ago I developed kidney stones and was taken to the hospital.to the hospital. I was in extreme pain. As I lay there in the ER for about 30 minutes after my wife had arrived, I yelled out for somebody to give me something for the pain. My wife said, "You shouldn't have done that, it's considered drug seeking behavior." I said to her rather loudly, You're god damn right, I'm seeking drugs because it hurts like hell." After laying there moaning in agony for over an hour, they admitted me and finally gave me something to relieve the pain.
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Posted: 8/22/2018 7:33:14 AM EDT
[#2]
They’re “tackling” the opioid issue pretty much the same way TSA “tackles” the airliner security issue.
Spend lots of of money, put on a show, inconvenience law-abiding citizens, focus “random” enforcement efforts on soft targets with little chance of involvement in illegal activity, make sure the problem demographics aren’t disturbed. 
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Posted: 8/22/2018 7:36:59 AM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
They’re “tackling” the opioid issue pretty much the same way TSA “tackles” the airliner security issue. Spend lots of of money, out on a show, inconvenience law-abiding citizens, focus “random” enforcement efforts on soft targets with little chance of involvement in illegal activity, make sure the problem demographics aren’t disturbed. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 7:41:51 AM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Over 34 years in healthcare here and I have seen the "rules" change 4 times at least. Swings from "opioids cause addiction so don't prescribe them" to ""we undertreat pain so opioids are OK. Use them" The current epidemic has been caused by a handful of knuckleheads overprescribing to line their pockets, The overprescribing has lead to a number of deaths around the country. So now we over react and cast all prescribers into the same "guilty" pool. Sound familiar? We now have a current generation of prescribers who are both afraid to prescribe opioids responsibably, and are sanctioned by medical boards if they do, and who actually don't know how to prescribe them. Stupid is as stupid does. I probably won't live long enough to see the next swing, but it will come. old man yells at clouds Opioids took off after governments said that their constituents were suffering from pain and it was the prescribers duty to treat all pain and the "5th vital sign" bullshit. 20 years ago pain after surgery was "expected", today we need to cope people into unconciousness or they file a complaint because God forbid they feel pain after open chest or knee replacement surgery. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 7:42:00 AM EDT
[#5]
Quoted:
My dad, who is a stage 4 cancer victim and has his spine bone literally turning into tumors, was prescribed Tramadol by the ER doctors. They wouldn't give him anything stronger because of the "opioid crisis." When he was able to get to his "real" doctor, they promptly put him on Methadone and Morphine. Prior to the ER he had been talking Dilaudid. To those who aren't familiar with those drugs, Tramadol is an opioid about as strong as Tylenol. Imagine somebody crushing your spinal cord with pliers and the ER giving you Tylenol. I get that some people are addicted, but this bullshit is fucking insane... torturing a 70 year old man who has terminal cancer because you're afraid that he might get addicted to the painkillers. Also, fuck cancer and FBHO. My MIL is 80 and in chronic pain. Same about the prescriptions too... can't give her anything that helps sleep a decent night's sleep because of the "opioid crisis" 
She hasn't slept decently in a decade, let her have something to take the damned edge off. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 7:45:04 AM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've said it before.... ...All of these middle-aged and older boomer types are about to have a rude fucking awakening when they're all fucked up with some illness and the doctor prescribes them Advil 800mg. They literally have no idea the monster they've created with all of their 'opiods R bad, Mmmmmmkay' nonsense. Frankly, the evil side of me kind of hopes that the ones who advocated for it are forced to live in pain at some point in their lives. Unintended consequences are a mother fucker.  |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 7:49:39 AM EDT
[#7]
Government gets involved.
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Posted: 8/22/2018 7:50:29 AM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You might want to check your facts, because you’re completely wrong. https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/pubs/manuals/pract/section5.htm Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted:
Now these are the stories I can't figure out... I had a toothache a few months ago under a crown. It was hurting. I called my dentist and left a message. He called me back and an hour later I had a script for Oxycontin and amoxicillin waiting for me at a pharmacy. I went in to pick them up and was expecting it to be something like buying a machine gun but nope; showed ID, and walked. FWIW I thought Oxy sucked as a drug. Helped with the pain but hated the buzz. My mom in her last days a few years back was on a fentanyl patch for months. Wasn't a big deal. https://www.deadiversion.usdoj.gov/pubs/manuals/pract/section5.htm In an emergency, a practitioner may call-in a prescription for a Schedule II controlled substance by telephone to the pharmacy, and the pharmacist may dispense the prescription provided that the quantity prescribed and dispensed is limited to the amount adequate to treat the patient during the emergency period. The prescribing practitioner must provide a written and signed prescription to the pharmacist within seven days |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 7:55:40 AM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OTC here for just about everything. What few things do require a prescription are often the hard narcotics like morphine. Often the pharmacies will ask if you have a prescription for stuff but if you tell them no but you need the medicine anyway, they'll give it outside of those yellow pad items. It's pretty convenient and I can't really point my finger at any abuses. Hell, they sell pure ethanol right on the shelf here. Don't see many people stealing it and selling it or boozing on it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Many countries in the world still use the OTC pharmacy model, and guess what most of the time there's no huge issues. Sure you can talk about antibiotic resistance, but outside that you don't see millions of homeless everywhere, shitting on the streets, dirty needles all over. It doesn't happen. Mass addiction is a cultural wasting disease not a biological disease. That's my opinion anyway. Often the pharmacies will ask if you have a prescription for stuff but if you tell them no but you need the medicine anyway, they'll give it outside of those yellow pad items. It's pretty convenient and I can't really point my finger at any abuses. Hell, they sell pure ethanol right on the shelf here. Don't see many people stealing it and selling it or boozing on it. I think culture makes a huge difference. Americans love their drugs. I do wonder if all that stuff was available over the counter if it would cause a temporary surge in drug abuse and then it would drop back down and reach a steady state. Near prohibition doesn’t seem to be working. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 7:57:37 AM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Electronic scripts are a thing. But you know it all so stay ignorant. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: You are full of shit, sir! Federal law prevents any doctor from phoning in schedule II drug prescriptions to the pharmacy. You have to physically obtain a written prescription from the doctor's office and take it to a pharmacy to be filled. You didn't have a script for Oxycotin waiting for you at a pharmacy, as you said. Why lie about it?? |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 8:00:46 AM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How about we ban food or otherwise restrict it or make it hard to access because some irresponsible people abuse it and get fat? Same basic idea. 
Instead the focus should not be on the food but on those that abuse it. Same as the medicine being discussed here. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Sounds like gun control. The law-abiding can’t get what they need while we refuse to punish the people who abuse the drugs and break the law. Same basic idea.
Instead the focus should not be on the food but on those that abuse it. Same as the medicine being discussed here. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 8:21:51 AM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Degenerates the canuck says. Why no blazing red in most big cities?  https://www.AR15.Com/media/mediaFiles/265139/20170311_woc097-647472.JPG Nevada certainly fits the bill though, no offense nevadans  Same reason we are now seeing more ODs in malls and resturants: they will be found and resuscitated before they die. Harder to be found when you are in some country barn shooting up. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 8:24:28 AM EDT
[#13]
OP,
Has your dad been in touch with pallitive care? They specialize in his circumstances. I work with them daily on a bunch of my patients and they deal with quality of life and pain management issues 24/7. I would advise a call to them. Best of luck. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 8:25:12 AM EDT
[#14]
Quoted:
My dad, who is a stage 4 cancer victim and has his spine bone literally turning into tumors, was prescribed Tramadol by the ER doctors. They wouldn't give him anything stronger because of the "opioid crisis." When he was able to get to his "real" doctor, they promptly put him on Methadone and Morphine. Prior to the ER he had been talking Dilaudid. To those who aren't familiar with those drugs, Tramadol is an opioid about as strong as Tylenol. Imagine somebody crushing your spinal cord with pliers and the ER giving you Tylenol. I get that some people are addicted, but this bullshit is fucking insane... torturing a 70 year old man who has terminal cancer because you're afraid that he might get addicted to the painkillers. Also, fuck cancer and FBHO. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 8:26:34 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
here in oregon alot of the doctors use escript and still escript schedule 2 meds to a pharmacy during daylight or working hours. er`s always give a written script if they give any at all. so yes escripting a schedule 2 happens every day. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 8:30:14 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The true opioid crisis is that they're damn near impossible to get through legitimate means for people that actually need them. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 8:37:25 AM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You are full of shit, sir! Federal law prevents any doctor from phoning in schedule II drug prescriptions to the pharmacy. You have to physically obtain a written prescription from the doctor's office and take it to a pharmacy to be filled. You didn't have a script for Oxycotin waiting for you at a pharmacy, as you said. Why lie about it?? |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 8:39:21 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Beat me to it. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted: You are full of shit, sir! Federal law prevents any doctor from phoning in schedule II drug prescriptions to the pharmacy. You have to physically obtain a written prescription from the doctor's office and take it to a pharmacy to be filled. You didn't have a script for Oxycotin waiting for you at a pharmacy, as you said. Why lie about it?? |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 8:42:19 AM EDT
[#19]
My wife's grandfather had the same deal as OP.
End-stage lung cancer, he was writhing in pain and they wouldn't give him anything stronger because "he might become addicted". WHO THE FUCK CARES? THE MAN IS DYING! Let him at least be comfortable for his last moments. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 8:42:28 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It has to have a certain level of encryption on both ends, doctor’s office and pharmacy. Most don’t have it so it’s a moot point. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 8:42:45 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It has to have a certain level of encryption on both ends, doctor’s office and pharmacy. Most don’t have it so it’s a moot point. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 8:45:22 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Because in the cities they get medical care faster and more people carry narcan. OD death is very time sensitive. Also, more chance of being found when they do drop. You could put a lot of causes of death on that map and get similar results, for the same reasons.  Attached FileThat's what struck me. 
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Posted: 8/22/2018 8:47:26 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I broke a tooth a little over a week ago on friday, 6am. Called every dentist in town, no one could see me until Monday, but i was having the worst pain ive ever felt in my life, up to puking after all the ibuprofen and advil i could find and soaking the tooth in lidocaine. I made it my mission to go to every urgent care until someone gave me pills, as i jave recently moved and havent gotten a new GP. With this "opiate crisis" i thought it would be difficult. I told the second place exactly what was going on, had a script for 20 7.5's and penicillin 20 minutes later. Ive been in car wrecks and injured my back so bad i couldnt walk in recent years and never got more than tramadol(which helped then, but this tooth pain had me on my knees). |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 8:49:16 AM EDT
[#24]
How long does Oxycotin's potency last in a bottle?
I was given some (maybe 30 pills) a few years ago for a kidney stone but it passed and I only used one. I recently found it and what with the hub-bub over the whole opiates thing I figured I'd better hold on to them in case I needed something and could not get anything.....They are secured in one of my safes. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 9:05:46 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Electronic scripts are a thing. But you know it all so stay ignorant. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 9:22:18 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Other than an emergency, scripts for opioids are walk in only. Sign for script after showing ID, and then Drs rep stamps script. Hand carry script to pharmacy and show ID before pharmacy will fill it. Have been doing it for my wife for several years now for 180 oxy a month. Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Electronic scripts are a thing. But you know it all so stay ignorant. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 9:31:52 AM EDT
[#27]
The opioid crisis and the human trafficking are two issues picked up by politicians and the media. In both cases they know nothing about the subject and act accordingly
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Posted: 8/22/2018 9:37:53 AM EDT
[#28]
sign of the times.
you have to show ID to buy cold medicine that has medicine in it. it's for the children, you know? |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 9:46:05 AM EDT
[#29]
Quoted:
My dad, who is a stage 4 cancer victim and has his spine bone literally turning into tumors, was prescribed Tramadol by the ER doctors. They wouldn't give him anything stronger because of the "opioid crisis." When he was able to get to his "real" doctor, they promptly put him on Methadone and Morphine. Prior to the ER he had been talking Dilaudid. To those who aren't familiar with those drugs, Tramadol is an opioid about as strong as Tylenol. Imagine somebody crushing your spinal cord with pliers and the ER giving you Tylenol. I get that some people are addicted, but this bullshit is fucking insane... torturing a 70 year old man who has terminal cancer because you're afraid that he might get addicted to the painkillers. Also, fuck cancer and FBHO. What brought your father to the ER? Did he run out of Dilaudid? Here in PA, we have to check all patients getting narcotics / Scheduled meds through the PDMP (Pennsylvania Prescription Drug Monitoring Program). It shows all your prescriptions of controlled meds (narcotics, benzos primarily)...how many, and the prescribing doc, and the quantity (along with a bit of other data....number of days Rx'ed, etc.)...don't do it, risk losing your state license. We don't (I'm a podiatrist) usually do Narcotics through the office...only for very limited issues (fractures, etc.), and for our surgery patients (yeah...I'm going to cut you open, cut bone, reattach tendon with a bone anchor, sew you back up...but before I do that, I have to make sure it's OK to give you pain medication for your post op pain.... ) We have to take 2 hours of Opioid CME to renew our licenses every 2 years.TLDR Summary: They're watching Docs, and telling us they're watching...so it's hard to get narcotics because of that.... |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 9:51:37 AM EDT
[#30]
I hit a deer on my motorcycle and broke my spine, wrist and ankle. Gave me 2 oxycodone there and a script for 10. Wrist and ankle doc gave me a script for 20. Spinal doc gave me a script for 100....with a refill. It's pretty bad, but if docs use common sense it wouldn't be an issue.
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Posted: 8/22/2018 9:51:42 AM EDT
[#31]
The doctors are playing with fire.
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Posted: 8/22/2018 9:57:50 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I hit a deer on my motorcycle and broke my spine, wrist and ankle. Gave me 2 oxycodone there and a script for 10. Wrist and ankle doc gave me a script for 20. Spinal doc gave me a script for 100....with a refill. It's pretty bad, but if docs use common sense it wouldn't be an issue. 
I hope your recovery went well in all seriousness. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 9:58:47 AM EDT
[#33]
EDs aren’t pain clinics and have stopped doing much for pain.
Sucks they wouldn’t help your dad. Why did he run out of meds? |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 10:00:10 AM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Between my shoulder surgery and my hip surgery, which is like 4 years, the law changed so I got a limited amount of post-surgery pain medication. It wasn't a big deal as I was off in less than a week anyway. They limit how much percocet/oxycontin that a doctor can prescribe. I'm amazed they didn't prescribe something stronger. I know the healthcare facilities are trying to limit access to opioids by medical staff because nurses and doctors have been caught up in diversion and/or addiction to it. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 10:04:37 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
I've said it before.... ...All of these middle-aged and older boomer types are about to have a rude fucking awakening when they're all fucked up with some illness and the doctor prescribes them Advil 800mg. They literally have no idea the monster they've created with all of their 'opiods R bad, Mmmmmmkay' nonsense. Frankly, the evil side of me kind of hopes that the ones who advocated for it are forced to live in pain at some point in their lives. Unintended consequences are a mother fucker. They’ve been teaching that for at least 15 years. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 11:18:47 AM EDT
[#36]
It's interesting to see the correlation between Purdue Pharma marketing Oxycontin and the sudden interest in undertreating pain, considering pain the 5th vital sign, declaring opiates safer in geriatric patients than NSAIDS due to renal/GI effects, tying reimbursement to patient satisfaction surveys (guess what addicts did with *that* leverage), declaring the patient's perception of pain the basis for treatment algorithms, tying pain control to the current standard of care (legal liability), etc during the late 1990s-early 2000's.
It's almost like a self-induced problem created when industry lobbyists paid off legislators to involve themselves in the practice of medicine, instead of letting the profession exercise good clinical judgement. Odd coincidence, indeed. But of course, it's really all the fault of greedy rogue doctors overprescribing for profit, you know, so the DEA finally decides to wave its dick around in protest. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 1:05:17 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
You guys know that E-scribe for schedule II is now a thing, yes? Quote HistoryQuoted:
Quoted:
Quoted: You are full of shit, sir! Federal law prevents any doctor from phoning in schedule II drug prescriptions to the pharmacy. You have to physically obtain a written prescription from the doctor's office and take it to a pharmacy to be filled. You didn't have a script for Oxycotin waiting for you at a pharmacy, as you said. Why lie about it?? I'll go see him and get fory scrips. Three electronic that are filled before I get to the pharmacy, and one hand-written I have to wait 20 minutes for. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 1:08:21 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryCould be part of it too. My county has a booming industrial economy, and not too much drugs. One county north is very much dying economy because most industry moved out. It has a huge heroin problem.
The county east is booming even more, little drugs. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 1:14:31 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
How long does Oxycotin's potency last in a bottle? I was given some (maybe 30 pills) a few years ago for a kidney stone but it passed and I only used one. I recently found it and what with the hub-bub over the whole opiates thing I figured I'd better hold on to them in case I needed something and could not get anything.....They are secured in one of my safes. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 5:41:30 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: And that is how it is in Mobile, Alabama. Written script for Schedule II drugs from doctor... no e-script for schedule II here. Now your MD may not have the required certified software, but it is perfectly legal. 
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Posted: 8/22/2018 5:44:56 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
All of the junkies around me are switching to Benzos, Zanny bars, and meth |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 5:46:26 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
What’s a zany bar? |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 5:47:44 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You guys know that E-scribe for schedule II is now a thing, yes?
I never got the “reasoning” behind mandating the absolutely least secure data transmission method (scrip pad handwritten) for the most dangerous and abused forms of medication. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 5:54:00 PM EDT
[#44]
The shit is insane, I have to take my Mom to a pain clinic to get her prescription where she is treated like a criminal and they count her pills. Also the doctors are idiots and will call in scripts that have to be written and hand delivered to the pharmacy. My Mom had to go through withdrawl over a weekend because her Doctor's office screwed up her Rx and Walgreens and her Dr's after hours service could no nothing until the next Monday.
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Posted: 8/22/2018 5:55:22 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Disagree. Opioids took off after governments said that their constituents were suffering from pain and it was the prescribers duty to treat all pain and the "5th vital sign" bullshit. 20 years ago pain after surgery was "expected", today we need to cope people into unconciousness or they file a complaint because God forbid they feel pain after open chest or knee replacement surgery. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 5:57:59 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: NC has gone escript for all drugs. It's actually more secure than paper scripts. I've had several people over the years try to falsify my paper scripts so I am now all electronic. With two-factor authentication, escripts are very much more secure than paper. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 5:59:32 PM EDT
[#47]
Stop handing out Narcan, stop requiring EMS/Fire/PD from giving it and the problem will be over. Also stop giving out methadone (which is abused) to treat withdrawl…..keep them from seizing but make detox suck.
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Posted: 8/22/2018 6:04:42 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
OP, Has your dad been in touch with pallitive care? They specialize in his circumstances. I work with them daily on a bunch of my patients and they deal with quality of life and pain management issues 24/7. I would advise a call to them. Best of luck. |
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Posted: 8/22/2018 6:08:37 PM EDT
[#49]
Sorry about your dad:( When I got my wisdom teeth out last year they gave me a script for 15 narcos.
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Posted: 8/22/2018 6:12:03 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: OP: What brought your father to the ER? Did he run out of Dilaudid? Here in PA, we have to check all patients getting narcotics / Scheduled meds through the PDMP (Pennsylvania Prescription Drug Monitoring Program). It shows all your prescriptions of controlled meds (narcotics, benzos primarily)...how many, and the prescribing doc, and the quantity (along with a bit of other data....number of days Rx'ed, etc.)...don't do it, risk losing your state license. We don't (I'm a podiatrist) usually do Narcotics through the office...only for very limited issues (fractures, etc.), and for our surgery patients (yeah...I'm going to cut you open, cut bone, reattach tendon with a bone anchor, sew you back up...but before I do that, I have to make sure it's OK to give you pain medication for your post op pain.... ) We have to take 2 hours of Opioid CME to renew our licenses every 2 years.TLDR Summary: They're watching Docs, and telling us they're watching...so it's hard to get narcotics because of that.... |
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