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Posted: 2/13/2022 12:53:48 PM EDT
[#1]
I've gone to low/no sugar since January. While I do feel better it can be difficult to avoid it as it's fucking everywhere.
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Posted: 2/13/2022 12:54:59 PM EDT
[#2]
Was the wrong video posted?
All I got was what vegetables you should eat if you are doing keto? |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 1:04:22 PM EDT
[#3]
We were only designed to have sugar/carbohydrates as a random supplement to our diets or during certain seasons. We weren't designed to be eating it year roubd. Also it took a lot of trial and error to discover which fruits/roots were safe to eat due to majority being toxic. Or if our ancestors were lucky enough to come across some honey comb.
We weren't meant to have this year round. Winter would be more of a meat based diet imo. Burning body fat as fuel is more efficient than using carbohydrates. Carbs as a fuel source burn far too fast and the body craves more of it. Agriculture changed a lot of things for humanity. It wasnt all bad though until we became more industrialized and focused on non physical labor/a sedentary lifestyle. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 1:07:58 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We were only designed to have sugar/carbohydrates as a random supplement to our diets or during certain seasons. We weren't designed to be eating it year roubd. Also it took a lot of trial and error to discover which fruits/roots were safe to eat due to majority being toxic. Or if our ancestors were lucky enough to come across some honey comb. We weren't meant to have this year round. Winter would be more of a meat based diet imo. Burning body fat as fuel is more efficient than using carbohydrates. Carbs as a fuel source burn far too fast and the body craves more of it. Agriculture changed a lot of things for humanity. It wasnt all bad though until we became more industrialized and focused on non physical labor/a sedentary lifestyle. We originated from very warm areas, fruit likely grew all year, along with edible roots. There is a reason that civilization flourished once farming became the norm, carbs are a good source of fuel. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 1:25:15 PM EDT
[#5]
He was great in F troop.
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Posted: 2/13/2022 1:30:19 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: OST I cut sweets out of my diet (cookies, cake, sugary snacks etc) and dropped about 6 - 7 lbs in a month without changing anything else in my lifestyle. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/temp-97.gif I am reasonably fit and not a fat overweight guy, so 6 - 7 lbs was a big loss. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 1:36:14 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I am reasonably fit and not a fat overweight guy, so 6 - 7 lbs was a big loss. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: OST I cut sweets out of my diet (cookies, cake, sugary snacks etc) and dropped about 6 - 7 lbs in a month without changing anything else in my lifestyle. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/temp-97.gif I am reasonably fit and not a fat overweight guy, so 6 - 7 lbs was a big loss. Yep, it's amazing how just killing sugar can shed pounds. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 1:41:13 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Yep, it's amazing how just killing sugar can shed pounds. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: OST I cut sweets out of my diet (cookies, cake, sugary snacks etc) and dropped about 6 - 7 lbs in a month without changing anything else in my lifestyle. /media/mediaFiles/sharedAlbum/temp-97.gif I am reasonably fit and not a fat overweight guy, so 6 - 7 lbs was a big loss. Yep, it's amazing how just killing sugar can shed pounds. My wife is a soda fiend. She doesn't drink coffee or tea so she has at least one can of Pepsi each day, sometimes two. That shit is pure poison and she knows I hate it. Last time she went on a cut, the first step was to cut out just the soda, and the first 5 lbs basically fell off without any other adjustment. We didn't even start tracking calories until after she adjusted to that. It's an addiction for sure though, last time she said "I'm going to stop drinking soda for a month" something happened at work and she was in tears. First thing she asked me is if I could go down to the store and get her a Pepsi. I knew that the battle was lost before it even started on that goal. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 1:43:19 PM EDT
[#9]
Cutting out sugar and grains also greatly helps reduce inflammation.
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Posted: 2/13/2022 1:44:50 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've gone to low/no sugar since January. While I do feel better it can be difficult to avoid it as it's fucking everywhere. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 1:53:03 PM EDT
[#11]
Thanks to all for sharing the wealth of information on this post.
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Posted: 2/13/2022 2:13:47 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: High Fructose Corn Syrup My doctor says that HFC is the meth of the food world |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 2:28:53 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Please expand on this. My Grandmother is in 90s and got dementia around 85. My dad (her son) is 72 and got dementia about 5 years ago. The only 'positive' is that he was a plumber and around PVC cement chemicals all his life, and I 'hope' that is the cause, rather than heredity. As I approach 50, I've been scatter-brained as hell my whole life and forget things constantly. I am terrified of facing this in 20-30 years. My point is, if what you eat is devoid of food value and loaded with sugar, run don't walk to finding good information on how to change this huge problem so many of us face. The alternative is very bleak. Fix you self before you damage yourself. No more excuses about it, or just dig a hole and get ready to leave life early.. Diabetes is no joke, and yes sugar causes it. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 2:30:11 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've been looking into some flushes and fermented foods to try to remedy it. So, beer? |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 2:45:33 PM EDT
[#15]
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Posted: 2/13/2022 2:47:41 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In honor of this thread I just ate a pop tart to fuel up for a workout in about an hour. Strawberry flavored goop gives me the energy I need to power through the day. I have a friend like that. Heart attack before 50, In great shape but unknowingly has the heart attack gene. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 2:51:37 PM EDT
[#17]
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Posted: 2/13/2022 2:57:59 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Refined sugar is addictive poison. There is no question about that. There is an old, very wise saying something like, "It's The Dose That Makes The Poison". |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 3:11:54 PM EDT
[#19]
I didn't watch the video.
I have trouble with the word "addiction". This coming from a guy who some would call a "recovered drug addict". I've been clean/sober for over 12 years. I especially have trouble with "addiction is a disease". Yes, many people abuse sugar. It tastes good and certainly satisfies some sort of desire. It's just really hard for me to accept a sugar addiction. It's like the government labeling so many people "terrorists". |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 3:29:43 PM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I didn't watch the video. I have trouble with the word "addiction". This coming from a guy who some would call a "recovered drug addict". I've been clean/sober for over 12 years. I especially have trouble with "addiction is a disease". Yes, many people abuse sugar. It tastes good and certainly satisfies some sort of desire. It's just really hard for me to accept a sugar addiction. It's like the government labeling so many people "terrorists". Not even close. There are many kinds of addictions. You saying that you can't be addicted to sugar does not speak well about you because most people in any form of treatment will be taught that addiction comes in all forms. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 3:51:44 PM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's are a lot to. I know alzheimer's and dementia aren't the same thing (although they often go hand in hand), but lack of good quality sleep over long periods of time is also a suspected cause. Getting the correct amount of deep sleep nightly allows the brain to go through a routine maintenance cycle where toxins are removed and memories are properly filed away. Like defragging a hard drive each night. If that cycle is cut short, or interrupted regularly, the issues associated compound over time. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 4:09:16 PM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We originated from very warm areas, fruit likely grew all year, along with edible roots. There is a reason that civilization flourished once farming became the norm, carbs are a good source of fuel. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We were only designed to have sugar/carbohydrates as a random supplement to our diets or during certain seasons. We weren't designed to be eating it year roubd. Also it took a lot of trial and error to discover which fruits/roots were safe to eat due to majority being toxic. Or if our ancestors were lucky enough to come across some honey comb. We weren't meant to have this year round. Winter would be more of a meat based diet imo. Burning body fat as fuel is more efficient than using carbohydrates. Carbs as a fuel source burn far too fast and the body craves more of it. Agriculture changed a lot of things for humanity. It wasnt all bad though until we became more industrialized and focused on non physical labor/a sedentary lifestyle. We originated from very warm areas, fruit likely grew all year, along with edible roots. There is a reason that civilization flourished once farming became the norm, carbs are a good source of fuel. I agree with you, sitdwnandhngon, and I find this one aspect of the current keto craze that always goes unanswered. Meats and other high quality proteins have historically been very expensive and difficult to get. I think our current american diet is very unhealthy, and ultra refined sugars are probably a large part of this. But carbohydrates have been a staple of the human diet for the past couple hundred thousand years and only for the past few decades has obesity and diabetes skyrocketed. Even then, there are other countries who have relied heavily on carbohydrates and have not seen such a rise in obesity and diabetes. Jason Fung really only pays this lip service in The Obesity Code, he notes that some asian diets may contain up to 80% of their energy from carbohydrates (via rice), but they obviously haven't seen the same explosion of diabetes/obesity. He doesn't go on to try and rectify this with his theory of insulin resistance and carbohydrates (or fasting). Anecdotally, I was in Peru in 2007 entire villages snacked on sugar cane all day long as they worked. Their diet was probably 90% simple sugars and they were all wirey thin and strong (and also had terrible cavities or no teeth). I find these examples to be significant unexplained shortcomings of the current low carb push. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 4:16:13 PM EDT
[#23]
I think it has something to do with all the generically modified grains they have now. American grains used to be very healthy. Also the food is so available, and while we work jobs it's not the same as when they had to work hard for everything they got for food.
I was told that Europe's grains are still very healthy and that is why were not seeing gluten problems there. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 4:17:11 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with you, sitdwnandhngon, and I find this one aspect of the current keto craze that always goes unanswered. Meats and other high quality proteins have historically been very expensive and difficult to get. I think our current american diet is very unhealthy, and ultra refined sugars are probably a large part of this. But carbohydrates have been a staple of the human diet for the past couple hundred thousand years and only for the past few decades has obesity and diabetes skyrocketed. Even then, there are other countries who have relied heavily on carbohydrates and have not seen such a rise in obesity and diabetes. Jason Fung really only pays this lip service in The Obesity Code, he notes that some asian diets may contain up to 80% of their energy from carbohydrates (via rice), but they obviously haven't seen the same explosion of diabetes/obesity. He doesn't go on to try and rectify this with his theory of insulin resistance and carbohydrates (or fasting). Anecdotally, I was in Peru in 2007 entire villages snacked on sugar cane all day long as they worked. Their diet was probably 90% simple sugars and they were all wirey thin and strong (and also had terrible cavities or no teeth). I find these examples to be significant unexplained shortcomings of the current low carb push. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: We were only designed to have sugar/carbohydrates as a random supplement to our diets or during certain seasons. We weren't designed to be eating it year roubd. Also it took a lot of trial and error to discover which fruits/roots were safe to eat due to majority being toxic. Or if our ancestors were lucky enough to come across some honey comb. We weren't meant to have this year round. Winter would be more of a meat based diet imo. Burning body fat as fuel is more efficient than using carbohydrates. Carbs as a fuel source burn far too fast and the body craves more of it. Agriculture changed a lot of things for humanity. It wasnt all bad though until we became more industrialized and focused on non physical labor/a sedentary lifestyle. We originated from very warm areas, fruit likely grew all year, along with edible roots. There is a reason that civilization flourished once farming became the norm, carbs are a good source of fuel. I agree with you, sitdwnandhngon, and I find this one aspect of the current keto craze that always goes unanswered. Meats and other high quality proteins have historically been very expensive and difficult to get. I think our current american diet is very unhealthy, and ultra refined sugars are probably a large part of this. But carbohydrates have been a staple of the human diet for the past couple hundred thousand years and only for the past few decades has obesity and diabetes skyrocketed. Even then, there are other countries who have relied heavily on carbohydrates and have not seen such a rise in obesity and diabetes. Jason Fung really only pays this lip service in The Obesity Code, he notes that some asian diets may contain up to 80% of their energy from carbohydrates (via rice), but they obviously haven't seen the same explosion of diabetes/obesity. He doesn't go on to try and rectify this with his theory of insulin resistance and carbohydrates (or fasting). Anecdotally, I was in Peru in 2007 entire villages snacked on sugar cane all day long as they worked. Their diet was probably 90% simple sugars and they were all wirey thin and strong (and also had terrible cavities or no teeth). I find these examples to be significant unexplained shortcomings of the current low carb push. Animals were never hard to get. There are no cave paintings of people eating apples. Asians are getting much fatter and are suffering the same health issues as other cultures. the people you saw eating sugar cane like that probably did not live past 50. The scientists have ruined our food supply through genetic modification and our government has allowed poison oils to be sold without warning, in fact have been touted as being more healthy that animal fats. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 4:24:44 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Animals were never hard to get. There are no cave paintings of people eating apples. Asians are getting much fatter and are suffering the same health issues as other cultures. the people you saw eating sugar cane like that probably did not live past 50. The scientists have ruined our food supply through genetic modification and our government has allowed poison oils to be sold without warning, in fact have been touted as being more healthy that animal fats. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We were only designed to have sugar/carbohydrates as a random supplement to our diets or during certain seasons. We weren't designed to be eating it year roubd. Also it took a lot of trial and error to discover which fruits/roots were safe to eat due to majority being toxic. Or if our ancestors were lucky enough to come across some honey comb. We weren't meant to have this year round. Winter would be more of a meat based diet imo. Burning body fat as fuel is more efficient than using carbohydrates. Carbs as a fuel source burn far too fast and the body craves more of it. Agriculture changed a lot of things for humanity. It wasnt all bad though until we became more industrialized and focused on non physical labor/a sedentary lifestyle. We originated from very warm areas, fruit likely grew all year, along with edible roots. There is a reason that civilization flourished once farming became the norm, carbs are a good source of fuel. I agree with you, sitdwnandhngon, and I find this one aspect of the current keto craze that always goes unanswered. Meats and other high quality proteins have historically been very expensive and difficult to get. I think our current american diet is very unhealthy, and ultra refined sugars are probably a large part of this. But carbohydrates have been a staple of the human diet for the past couple hundred thousand years and only for the past few decades has obesity and diabetes skyrocketed. Even then, there are other countries who have relied heavily on carbohydrates and have not seen such a rise in obesity and diabetes. Jason Fung really only pays this lip service in The Obesity Code, he notes that some asian diets may contain up to 80% of their energy from carbohydrates (via rice), but they obviously haven't seen the same explosion of diabetes/obesity. He doesn't go on to try and rectify this with his theory of insulin resistance and carbohydrates (or fasting). Anecdotally, I was in Peru in 2007 entire villages snacked on sugar cane all day long as they worked. Their diet was probably 90% simple sugars and they were all wirey thin and strong (and also had terrible cavities or no teeth). I find these examples to be significant unexplained shortcomings of the current low carb push. Animals were never hard to get. There are no cave paintings of people eating apples. Asians are getting much fatter and are suffering the same health issues as other cultures. the people you saw eating sugar cane like that probably did not live past 50. The scientists have ruined our food supply through genetic modification and our government has allowed poison oils to be sold without warning, in fact have been touted as being more healthy that animal fats. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 4:28:10 PM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I agree with you, sitdwnandhngon, and I find this one aspect of the current keto craze that always goes unanswered. Meats and other high quality proteins have historically been very expensive and difficult to get. I think our current american diet is very unhealthy, and ultra refined sugars are probably a large part of this. But carbohydrates have been a staple of the human diet for the past couple hundred thousand years and only for the past few decades has obesity and diabetes skyrocketed. Even then, there are other countries who have relied heavily on carbohydrates and have not seen such a rise in obesity and diabetes. Jason Fung really only pays this lip service in The Obesity Code, he notes that some asian diets may contain up to 80% of their energy from carbohydrates (via rice), but they obviously haven't seen the same explosion of diabetes/obesity. He doesn't go on to try and rectify this with his theory of insulin resistance and carbohydrates (or fasting). Anecdotally, I was in Peru in 2007 entire villages snacked on sugar cane all day long as they worked. Their diet was probably 90% simple sugars and they were all wirey thin and strong (and also had terrible cavities or no teeth). I find these examples to be significant unexplained shortcomings of the current low carb push. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: We were only designed to have sugar/carbohydrates as a random supplement to our diets or during certain seasons. We weren't designed to be eating it year roubd. Also it took a lot of trial and error to discover which fruits/roots were safe to eat due to majority being toxic. Or if our ancestors were lucky enough to come across some honey comb. We weren't meant to have this year round. Winter would be more of a meat based diet imo. Burning body fat as fuel is more efficient than using carbohydrates. Carbs as a fuel source burn far too fast and the body craves more of it. Agriculture changed a lot of things for humanity. It wasnt all bad though until we became more industrialized and focused on non physical labor/a sedentary lifestyle. We originated from very warm areas, fruit likely grew all year, along with edible roots. There is a reason that civilization flourished once farming became the norm, carbs are a good source of fuel. I agree with you, sitdwnandhngon, and I find this one aspect of the current keto craze that always goes unanswered. Meats and other high quality proteins have historically been very expensive and difficult to get. I think our current american diet is very unhealthy, and ultra refined sugars are probably a large part of this. But carbohydrates have been a staple of the human diet for the past couple hundred thousand years and only for the past few decades has obesity and diabetes skyrocketed. Even then, there are other countries who have relied heavily on carbohydrates and have not seen such a rise in obesity and diabetes. Jason Fung really only pays this lip service in The Obesity Code, he notes that some asian diets may contain up to 80% of their energy from carbohydrates (via rice), but they obviously haven't seen the same explosion of diabetes/obesity. He doesn't go on to try and rectify this with his theory of insulin resistance and carbohydrates (or fasting). Anecdotally, I was in Peru in 2007 entire villages snacked on sugar cane all day long as they worked. Their diet was probably 90% simple sugars and they were all wirey thin and strong (and also had terrible cavities or no teeth). I find these examples to be significant unexplained shortcomings of the current low carb push. The poison is in the dose. A laborer, that is burning through 3000-5000 calories a day needs the fuel. Their body will use it up just fine for many many years with no issues. Take that same person and sit them on their ass all day for decades, and give them the same diet, and their insulin factory will be working non stop to try to find a place to put it. Insulin is an anabolic hormone, it's job is to shuttle the sugar that's been broken down by the gut into the cells for energy, if you aren't using that energy up quickly the insulin is working it's ass off to try to store it, and like any other drug, the more you have floating around for longer, the more resistant your body becomes to it. My biggest pet peeve is when people say to me "I wish I had your metabolism". You can have it, wake up at 5am, drink black coffee and skip breakfast most days, be on a jobsite at 7am ready to do some physical labor, and then start eating mid morning with some snacks or whatever, followed by a light lunch. If you see me eating 2000 calories at supper time over two plates of food, it's because I need to refuel the tanks, I didn't get to sit in an office chair all day and snack on pretzels. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 4:37:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Animals were never hard to get. There are no cave paintings of people eating apples. Asians are getting much fatter and are suffering the same health issues as other cultures. the people you saw eating sugar cane like that probably did not live past 50. The scientists have ruined our food supply through genetic modification and our government has allowed poison oils to be sold without warning, in fact have been touted as being more healthy that animal fats. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We were only designed to have sugar/carbohydrates as a random supplement to our diets or during certain seasons. We weren't designed to be eating it year roubd. Also it took a lot of trial and error to discover which fruits/roots were safe to eat due to majority being toxic. Or if our ancestors were lucky enough to come across some honey comb. We weren't meant to have this year round. Winter would be more of a meat based diet imo. Burning body fat as fuel is more efficient than using carbohydrates. Carbs as a fuel source burn far too fast and the body craves more of it. Agriculture changed a lot of things for humanity. It wasnt all bad though until we became more industrialized and focused on non physical labor/a sedentary lifestyle. We originated from very warm areas, fruit likely grew all year, along with edible roots. There is a reason that civilization flourished once farming became the norm, carbs are a good source of fuel. I agree with you, sitdwnandhngon, and I find this one aspect of the current keto craze that always goes unanswered. Meats and other high quality proteins have historically been very expensive and difficult to get. I think our current american diet is very unhealthy, and ultra refined sugars are probably a large part of this. But carbohydrates have been a staple of the human diet for the past couple hundred thousand years and only for the past few decades has obesity and diabetes skyrocketed. Even then, there are other countries who have relied heavily on carbohydrates and have not seen such a rise in obesity and diabetes. Jason Fung really only pays this lip service in The Obesity Code, he notes that some asian diets may contain up to 80% of their energy from carbohydrates (via rice), but they obviously haven't seen the same explosion of diabetes/obesity. He doesn't go on to try and rectify this with his theory of insulin resistance and carbohydrates (or fasting). Anecdotally, I was in Peru in 2007 entire villages snacked on sugar cane all day long as they worked. Their diet was probably 90% simple sugars and they were all wirey thin and strong (and also had terrible cavities or no teeth). I find these examples to be significant unexplained shortcomings of the current low carb push. Animals were never hard to get. There are no cave paintings of people eating apples. Asians are getting much fatter and are suffering the same health issues as other cultures. the people you saw eating sugar cane like that probably did not live past 50. The scientists have ruined our food supply through genetic modification and our government has allowed poison oils to be sold without warning, in fact have been touted as being more healthy that animal fats. Cave paintings contained animals because they were dangerous and hard to get, and it was a celebration when a hunt was successful. Nobody had to celebrate because someone picked an apple. Asian cultures are getting fatter as they have adopted American diets. But there are many cultures that have stuck with more traditional diets that have not seen the same level of obesity and diabetes. And while the people I saw in Peru didn't have the same life expectancy and the US, they weren't dying of complications of diabetes. Even in our own country, until the 1970s, most Americans ate a similar basic diet that consisted of a mixture of proteins, fats, and carbs and obesity wasn't an issue. It's convenient to blame it on the food pyramid and carbs but other countries also adopted a similar food pyramid and didn't see the same rise in obesity (until recently). I do agree with you that food science and the way in which ingredients are grown, manufactured, and processed are likely a significant player in our country's obesity and diabetes issues. Carbs today are not the same as carbs in the 1970s. But the insistance that carbs alone are to blame is a very limited and myopic view of the overall complexity of our health and its relation to our diets. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 4:44:39 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The poison is in the dose. A laborer, that is burning through 3000-5000 calories a day needs the fuel. Their body will use it up just fine for many many years with no issues. Take that same person and sit them on their ass all day for decades, and give them the same diet, and their insulin factory will be working non stop to try to find a place to put it. Insulin is an anabolic hormone, it's job is to shuttle the sugar that's been broken down by the gut into the cells for energy, if you aren't using that energy up quickly the insulin is working it's ass off to try to store it, and like any other drug, the more you have floating around for longer, the more resistant your body becomes to it. My biggest pet peeve is when people say to me "I wish I had your metabolism". You can have it, wake up at 5am, drink black coffee and skip breakfast most days, be on a jobsite at 7am ready to do some physical labor, and then start eating mid morning with some snacks or whatever, followed by a light lunch. If you see me eating 2000 calories at supper time over two plates of food, it's because I need to refuel the tanks, I didn't get to sit in an office chair all day and snack on pretzels. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We were only designed to have sugar/carbohydrates as a random supplement to our diets or during certain seasons. We weren't designed to be eating it year roubd. Also it took a lot of trial and error to discover which fruits/roots were safe to eat due to majority being toxic. Or if our ancestors were lucky enough to come across some honey comb. We weren't meant to have this year round. Winter would be more of a meat based diet imo. Burning body fat as fuel is more efficient than using carbohydrates. Carbs as a fuel source burn far too fast and the body craves more of it. Agriculture changed a lot of things for humanity. It wasnt all bad though until we became more industrialized and focused on non physical labor/a sedentary lifestyle. We originated from very warm areas, fruit likely grew all year, along with edible roots. There is a reason that civilization flourished once farming became the norm, carbs are a good source of fuel. I agree with you, sitdwnandhngon, and I find this one aspect of the current keto craze that always goes unanswered. Meats and other high quality proteins have historically been very expensive and difficult to get. I think our current american diet is very unhealthy, and ultra refined sugars are probably a large part of this. But carbohydrates have been a staple of the human diet for the past couple hundred thousand years and only for the past few decades has obesity and diabetes skyrocketed. Even then, there are other countries who have relied heavily on carbohydrates and have not seen such a rise in obesity and diabetes. Jason Fung really only pays this lip service in The Obesity Code, he notes that some asian diets may contain up to 80% of their energy from carbohydrates (via rice), but they obviously haven't seen the same explosion of diabetes/obesity. He doesn't go on to try and rectify this with his theory of insulin resistance and carbohydrates (or fasting). Anecdotally, I was in Peru in 2007 entire villages snacked on sugar cane all day long as they worked. Their diet was probably 90% simple sugars and they were all wirey thin and strong (and also had terrible cavities or no teeth). I find these examples to be significant unexplained shortcomings of the current low carb push. The poison is in the dose. A laborer, that is burning through 3000-5000 calories a day needs the fuel. Their body will use it up just fine for many many years with no issues. Take that same person and sit them on their ass all day for decades, and give them the same diet, and their insulin factory will be working non stop to try to find a place to put it. Insulin is an anabolic hormone, it's job is to shuttle the sugar that's been broken down by the gut into the cells for energy, if you aren't using that energy up quickly the insulin is working it's ass off to try to store it, and like any other drug, the more you have floating around for longer, the more resistant your body becomes to it. My biggest pet peeve is when people say to me "I wish I had your metabolism". You can have it, wake up at 5am, drink black coffee and skip breakfast most days, be on a jobsite at 7am ready to do some physical labor, and then start eating mid morning with some snacks or whatever, followed by a light lunch. If you see me eating 2000 calories at supper time over two plates of food, it's because I need to refuel the tanks, I didn't get to sit in an office chair all day and snack on pretzels. No argument there, I agree. I have seen may posters in GD, on the various keto/low carbs threads that pop up, that think your weight is soley determined by your diet, and that exercise has nothing to do with it. I can appreciate the idea that Jason Fung has proposed that weight is heavily dependent on insulin and other hormone mediators, but he almost fully dismisses the idea of calories-in/calories-out determing weight and I don't fully agree. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 4:44:40 PM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Cave paintings contained animals because they were dangerous and hard to get, and it was a celebration when a hunt was successful. Nobody had to celebrate because someone picked an apple. Asian cultures are getting fatter as they have adopted American diets. But there are many cultures that have stuck with more traditional diets that have not seen the same level of obesity and diabetes. And while the people I saw in Peru didn't have the same life expectancy and the US, they weren't dying of complications of diabetes. Even in our own country, until the 1970s, most Americans ate a similar basic diet that consisted of a mixture of proteins, fats, and carbs and obesity wasn't an issue. It's convenient to blame it on the food pyramid and carbs but other countries also adopted a similar food pyramid and didn't see the same rise in obesity (until recently). I do agree with you that food science and the way in which ingredients are grown, manufactured, and processed are likely a significant player in our country's obesity and diabetes issues. Carbs today are not the same as carbs in the 1970s. But the insistance that carbs alone are to blame is a very limited and myopic view of the overall complexity of our health and its relation to our diets. They were not dangerous to get, that is BS drama. Animals were far more numerous then, we cannot even imagine how many there were. Where did they get their fruit and veggies in the winter? Humans main meal was animal based not from carbs. The obesity is caused by the increased consumption of various increase in consumption of processed foods, oils and sugar filled foods. Even fruit juices are bad for us. A fruit in natural state (before genetic mutilation) are a great package, sugars and fiber that help balance each other out. When you consume the juice only you are not doing your body any justice. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 5:28:00 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So, beer? If someone made beer that made you healthier, I'd order a fucking pallet 
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Posted: 2/13/2022 6:58:55 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No argument there, I agree. I have seen may posters in GD, on the various keto/low carbs threads that pop up, that think your weight is soley determined by your diet, and that exercise has nothing to do with it. I can appreciate the idea that Jason Fung has proposed that weight is heavily dependent on insulin and other hormone mediators, but he almost fully dismisses the idea of calories-in/calories-out determing weight and I don't fully agree. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: We were only designed to have sugar/carbohydrates as a random supplement to our diets or during certain seasons. We weren't designed to be eating it year roubd. Also it took a lot of trial and error to discover which fruits/roots were safe to eat due to majority being toxic. Or if our ancestors were lucky enough to come across some honey comb. We weren't meant to have this year round. Winter would be more of a meat based diet imo. Burning body fat as fuel is more efficient than using carbohydrates. Carbs as a fuel source burn far too fast and the body craves more of it. Agriculture changed a lot of things for humanity. It wasnt all bad though until we became more industrialized and focused on non physical labor/a sedentary lifestyle. We originated from very warm areas, fruit likely grew all year, along with edible roots. There is a reason that civilization flourished once farming became the norm, carbs are a good source of fuel. I agree with you, sitdwnandhngon, and I find this one aspect of the current keto craze that always goes unanswered. Meats and other high quality proteins have historically been very expensive and difficult to get. I think our current american diet is very unhealthy, and ultra refined sugars are probably a large part of this. But carbohydrates have been a staple of the human diet for the past couple hundred thousand years and only for the past few decades has obesity and diabetes skyrocketed. Even then, there are other countries who have relied heavily on carbohydrates and have not seen such a rise in obesity and diabetes. Jason Fung really only pays this lip service in The Obesity Code, he notes that some asian diets may contain up to 80% of their energy from carbohydrates (via rice), but they obviously haven't seen the same explosion of diabetes/obesity. He doesn't go on to try and rectify this with his theory of insulin resistance and carbohydrates (or fasting). Anecdotally, I was in Peru in 2007 entire villages snacked on sugar cane all day long as they worked. Their diet was probably 90% simple sugars and they were all wirey thin and strong (and also had terrible cavities or no teeth). I find these examples to be significant unexplained shortcomings of the current low carb push. The poison is in the dose. A laborer, that is burning through 3000-5000 calories a day needs the fuel. Their body will use it up just fine for many many years with no issues. Take that same person and sit them on their ass all day for decades, and give them the same diet, and their insulin factory will be working non stop to try to find a place to put it. Insulin is an anabolic hormone, it's job is to shuttle the sugar that's been broken down by the gut into the cells for energy, if you aren't using that energy up quickly the insulin is working it's ass off to try to store it, and like any other drug, the more you have floating around for longer, the more resistant your body becomes to it. My biggest pet peeve is when people say to me "I wish I had your metabolism". You can have it, wake up at 5am, drink black coffee and skip breakfast most days, be on a jobsite at 7am ready to do some physical labor, and then start eating mid morning with some snacks or whatever, followed by a light lunch. If you see me eating 2000 calories at supper time over two plates of food, it's because I need to refuel the tanks, I didn't get to sit in an office chair all day and snack on pretzels. No argument there, I agree. I have seen may posters in GD, on the various keto/low carbs threads that pop up, that think your weight is soley determined by your diet, and that exercise has nothing to do with it. I can appreciate the idea that Jason Fung has proposed that weight is heavily dependent on insulin and other hormone mediators, but he almost fully dismisses the idea of calories-in/calories-out determing weight and I don't fully agree. Your weight is controlled by your diet. Your activity level is what gives you your calorie baseline to adjust from. You can never outrun your fork. If you eat more than you need, you'll stay fat. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 7:13:04 PM EDT
[#32]
I agree....sugar is an addictive poison.
I hit the keto hard this summer, 15lbs in the first month. Dropped almost 30 total now. I do low carb/no carb most days except 1 beer at night and a couple of homemade oatmeal raison cookies in the am. The cookies are made with honey, still sugar but a bit better. If I get up a couple of pounds, I hit the keto hard and drop the weight in a couple days. America is fat because cheap sugary carbs are everywhere and people have no will power. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 7:20:27 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your weight is controlled by your diet. Your activity level is what gives you your calorie baseline to adjust from. You can never outrun your fork. If you eat more than you need, you'll stay fat. All calories are not the same. look it up |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 7:21:59 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: No argument there, I agree. I have seen may posters in GD, on the various keto/low carbs threads that pop up, that think your weight is soley determined by your diet, and that exercise has nothing to do with it. I can appreciate the idea that Jason Fung has proposed that weight is heavily dependent on insulin and other hormone mediators, but he almost fully dismisses the idea of calories-in/calories-out determing weight and I don't fully agree. This is one area where I think the keto docs sort of, slightly, barely get it wrong: A metabolically healthy person at a healthy weight on most diets will by and large have weight fluctuations based on calories in/calories out. Think of that as one end of the spectrum. Now consider a guy that's 100 pounds overweight and just starting keto. He's the extreme other end. CI/CO be darned, this guy goes on keto and he's gonna drop weight like a rock as he has essentially hacked the process that was putting weight on him. As he approaches metabolic health and a healthy weight CI/CO becomes more of a factor. I believe this in part because I was that guy (well, not 100 pounds overweight, but generally, yes, that was me). The more I lose, the more calories seem to matter, though going carnivore for a few days seems to have boosted my weight loss again. The people who tell you to start keto and ignore counting calories, when you're badly overweight, are absolutely right. But as you lose weight and approach a healthy weight and regain some metabolic health, I think CI/CO begins to be more of a factor - but again, even with that, I think I was able to push through that by going almost zero-carb. And I suspect that given another 5-15 pounds of weight loss, even a straight carnivore diet would largely function according to CI/CO even for me. In short, both sides of this are sort of right but comparing apples (fat people) to oranges (skinny people). |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 7:30:13 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: All calories are not the same. look it up Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Your weight is controlled by your diet. Your activity level is what gives you your calorie baseline to adjust from. You can never outrun your fork. If you eat more than you need, you'll stay fat. All calories are not the same. look it up Where did I say they are? Your weight is still controlled by your diet, not your activity level. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 7:35:38 PM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Where did I say they are? Your weight is still controlled by your diet, not your activity level. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Your weight is controlled by your diet. Your activity level is what gives you your calorie baseline to adjust from. You can never outrun your fork. If you eat more than you need, you'll stay fat. All calories are not the same. look it up Where did I say they are? Your weight is still controlled by your diet, not your activity level. Your comment is suggesting that a calorie is a calorie. I can eat a high calorie amount of fat and not gain weight. If I eat the same amount in sugar calories I will gain weight at the same activity level. I am also more tired on the sugars than on the non sugar calories. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 7:38:55 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Your comment is suggesting that a calorie is a calorie. I can eat a high calorie amount of fat and not gain weight. If I eat the same amount in sugar calories I will gain weight at the same activity level. I am also more tired on the sugars than on the non sugar calories. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Your weight is controlled by your diet. Your activity level is what gives you your calorie baseline to adjust from. You can never outrun your fork. If you eat more than you need, you'll stay fat. All calories are not the same. look it up Where did I say they are? Your weight is still controlled by your diet, not your activity level. Your comment is suggesting that a calorie is a calorie. I can eat a high calorie amount of fat and not gain weight. If I eat the same amount in sugar calories I will gain weight at the same activity level. I am also more tired on the sugars than on the non sugar calories. I'm sure if you ate over your TDEE steadily in any macro, you would gain weight.....that is assuming you are actually absorbing it, and not just shitting it out. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 7:45:52 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: In honor of this thread I just ate a pop tart to fuel up for a workout in about an hour. Strawberry flavored goop gives me the energy I need to power through the day. Any of those fruit goops give me heartburn bad enough to induce coughing hacks. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 7:52:17 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: unless you follow a keto diet, you are still eating a fuckton of sugar, you just dont know it. I am acutely aware. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 7:57:06 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm sure if you ate over your TDEE steadily in any macro, you would gain weight.....that is assuming you are actually absorbing it, and not just shitting it out. Nope. I am 56 years old and have learned a lot about this. Do like I did and see that calories are not all the same |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 7:58:39 PM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Nope. I am 56 years old and have learned a lot about this. Do like I did and see that calories are not all the same Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I'm sure if you ate over your TDEE steadily in any macro, you would gain weight.....that is assuming you are actually absorbing it, and not just shitting it out. Nope. I am 56 years old and have learned a lot about this. Do like I did and see that calories are not all the same Have you eaten 500+ calories over your TDEE every day for at least a month? |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 7:59:43 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well did you die? What did you physically feel as far as symptoms? I believe it's a psychological issue along with a physical addiction. Not as bad as heroine, but the amount of sugar in the average American diet is deadly. I stopped eating sugar a few months ago, and my insulin resistance went away as soon as I did, and now my sensitivity has fully returned. I believe had I not done so, I would have suffered hart disease, or cancer or both topped off with dementia otherwise known as type three diabetes. A bottle of Heinze catchup is 1/3 sugar, it's in almost all processed foods, and sugar is a highly processed material. I fasted for 18 days in December/January, then went to one meal a day, and now i'm 3 days into my next fast. I haven't felt this physically good in a couple of decades. I cut out all processed sugars, reduced carbs, and caffeine. It kicked my ass, the one thing that stuck was the ditching of soda and fried foods. My symptoms began with headaches and lethargy, eventually they moved south when my gut got involved. The headaches were crippling, very much in the same ballpark as a migraine. The sensory overload really got the better of me. My whole digestive tract changed, and not for the better. Cramps, consistency changes and outright stoppages followed by Katy bar the door. It wasn’t psychosomatic. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 8:27:09 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I cut out all processed sugars, reduced carbs, and caffeine. It kicked my ass, the one thing that stuck was the ditching of soda and fried foods. My symptoms began with headaches and lethargy, eventually they moved south when my gut got involved. The headaches were crippling, very much in the same ballpark as a migraine. The sensory overload really got the better of me. My whole digestive tract changed, and not for the better. Cramps, consistency changes and outright stoppages followed by Katy bar the door. It wasn't psychosomatic. |
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Posted: 2/13/2022 9:27:38 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Wow, You know foods fried in lard, butter, olive oil, coconut oil, and avocado oil are really good for you, but the types of oil you don't want to use is exactly what most restaurants use, and it's pretty bad, not to mention they reuse it for a long time and reheat it over and over making it even worse. We cook at least two meals a day, usually breakfast and supper, and don’t use vegetable oils. Local butter, coconut oil, avocado oil, and some olive oil…Even so, anything other than pan frying just isn’t something we do more than a handful of times a year. |
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Posted: 2/14/2022 4:10:12 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We cook at least two meals a day, usually breakfast and supper, and don't use vegetable oils. Local butter, coconut oil, avocado oil, and some olive oilEven so, anything other than pan frying just isn't something we do more than a handful of times a year. |
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Posted: 2/14/2022 5:50:14 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Oh, okay so your on it then. Today is day 4 of my second water fast of the year. I do my best to not think or talk about food, but our culture is so soaked in food, it's difficult to not have it rubbed in our faces constantly. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: We cook at least two meals a day, usually breakfast and supper, and don't use vegetable oils. Local butter, coconut oil, avocado oil, and some olive oilEven so, anything other than pan frying just isn't something we do more than a handful of times a year. Ad blockers on all your connected devices goes a long way to limit this. Embracing your inner asshole towards people who try to control you with food generally takes care of the rest. |
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Posted: 2/14/2022 5:56:36 PM EDT
[#47]
Wow, look at the bunch of doctors we have here.
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Posted: 2/14/2022 5:58:32 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I've tried to quit sugar cold turkey, twice. I legitimately thought I was going to die. |
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Posted: 2/14/2022 6:01:38 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:  As an 10er you should know the declaration of a DUPE is nonsense without a link to original. 
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Posted: 2/14/2022 6:05:30 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It's real. You can study food history as well, sugar wasn't a part of the diet. It's an addictive drug added to food to make you crave more. It increases your appetite. Try substituting a fat; nuts, cheese etc when your craving sweets. So I can have cheese cake.
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