It’s been proved and discussed many times on here, forgot the member name but I think he raced Audi’s…”quattro” isn’t one specific Audi AWD system…same with the very MFG…they all use different AWD systems in each make/model and they all vary over the years, and they’re all very similar.

This is absolutely true.  I’ve owned two, an A4 and Q5, both 2017’s.  They are great, until they aren’t.  Once something goes wrong, it starts a never ending downward spiral.  

Within 60 days of the expiration of the warranty, the Q5 needed a new turbo ($8K due to labor and basically having to remove the engine), new intake manifold due to intake manifold runner position sensor error ($2K), and new front struts and coil springs ($3500, because if one goes bad you have to replace both on a Quattro).

The A4’s been better but has front axle issues, again just after the warranty expired.

I will never buy another Audi.  As others have said earlier, I probably should have bought a Lexus.

I’ve owned most of the ones he talks about. He’s more right than wrong overall, but right for the wrong reasons on the Q7 being one to avoid. The first gen (2007-15) Q7 uses bombproof Aisin transmissions, they’re not an issue. It doesn’t have electrical problems either. People bitch about them because they’re 5400 pounds and eat brakes and tires.

Do you live somewhere where you need AWD? Here it adds unnecessary expense for something that will never go off road.

There was a legit problem with oil control rings. I had them replaced on Audi’s dime, after a fight, in my 2011 Q5. That car saw 5K oil changes with 502 oil and OEM filter every time, and still had oil consumption issues.

Torsen and Haldex. Torsen is used in longitudinal engines, is zero maintenance and is purely mechanical - no clutches or pumps or filters. This is what you want.

Haldex is pretty good from a performance standpoint but is a more complicated, less robust system. Requires maintenance. Transverse engines, usually in the smaller cars, is Haldex.

There more than Torsen and Haldex - and there's been 3 Torsen Centers  and Audi doesn't like Toyota owns it now

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I am fully aware of the early oil ring issues.

It was corrected by 12 I believe.

Incorrect oil still causes the contol ring ports to plug even up to the latest ea888 motors.

Either way the bg flush i posted has been very effective.

If you want to get into professorial subcategories, sure. But the longitudinal systems are all based on a torsen diff of one type or another, and the transverse ones are all some variant of a Haldex system since the late 90s.

The worst vehicle I have ever owned !  And I once owned a Fiat .  Constant mechanical , electrical , and computer problems .  One computer problem the dealer couldn’t fix .  Happiest day when I sold it . Never again .
Get a Lexus or high end Toyota .

There could be a 300 page discusson on the variations even within a generation.

The new torque vectoring stuff is tits.

Looks like there was another issue right after that

It's is but Crown Gear isn't Torsen - and as you know mit Ultra and R8 is electronic controlled clutch pack.

Agree on Ultra but you'll have some along soon enough saying how whatever they think Audi uses for centers is better.  Most won't realize R8 v2 uses Haldex.

Audi itself claims 5 main different "Quattro" systems recently, so what I want to get into is immaterial

Crown Gear doesn't (can't) infringe on Torsen, two systems use electronic clutch packs without mechanical centers so none of these are Torsen based.

This leave leaves out the Gen 1 R8 Viscous Coupling front and Quattro e-tron.

Ive heard of this but I've never seen one.

I do see more than a few blow holes through the pistons and burn valves, which as i understand it is a combination between poor oil quality and short trip drivers.

I think you must be retarded.

Thats nice dear

This is what I do with my S4. Easy peasy.

Love mine!

I've had two A4's.. All 6spd... I want an S5.. Quattro has saved me a few times.

Just need to maintain it, do oil, fix things when they are broken or when mechanic says there is an issue..

Even I know what to do, and I've seen my fair share in production models

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Jesus these threads - like you've never been in an Audi or under a hood.

This.

Audi did the 2010 around 100k miles and outside of warranty. Car has been fantastic since.

Well I have a 2016 A6 and it had no dipstick (check by computer only)

However, I bough an aftermarket dipstick for $35 for it and the tube that goes into the engine is still there from the factory; it's just capped off. Remove the cap and the aftermarket dipstick fits right in.

The aftermarket dipstick works fine.

I had an '02 A6 4.2 and loved it.  Drivetrain was rock solid.  My only issues were self induced due to suspension modifications.

YOLO, or you could get a Lexus if your blind.

There is no way possible that a VAG car is worse than a Fjord.

So VAG > Ferd

Those fuckers.

I got into a discussion with a customer that almost turned into an argument when she wanted to see her air filter on a Malibu-for thoae who don't know, the air filter on a Malibu is flat and a bit bigger than a Bible.

"That can't be my air filter, the filter Jiffy Lube showed me was big and round!"

After about 5 minutes of back and forth we figured out that Jiffy Lube showed her the oil filter out of a Ford pickup or van-round and about the size of a coffee can.

There we go…..@alacrity….the reference

LOL I've merely had access and pay attention. There's a number of folks much more practically involved with Audi than I - at least one in this thread - much more so whose opinions I greatly respect.

It's not just Audi that creates marketing myths about diverse systems - they've just been very good at it.  In general AWD systems are similar from the standpoint of the type of center used - that gets colloquialized  to "Torsen" if mechanical.  In many cases very similar systems/units, sometimes identical, from the same manufacturer - Magna, Torsen, GKN, Borg, - are used across mfgs. Or rarely something proprietary that performs the same function. Audi has all of these in Quattro systems, tho not solely the center. Peeps focus on this solely when it's a combination of other aspects which create good traction response characteristics and mitigate disadvantages which all choices bring, to provide the best traction performance given constraints such as cost, packaging, etc. Mostly the dreaded and reviled (and often claimed absent in Quattro)  "electronic controls" - which have brought improvements.

As AgeOne post points out you could spend hours on all the variations and slick solutions Audi employs. They do a very good job of tailoring to constraints. Whether Mechanical Planetary Centers (Torsen or Crown Gear over time, model/transmission dependent) Haldex in transverse and R8 v2, and Ultra supplanting - an on demand system with all the shit Audiphites deride in other marques, developed for the same reasons. To be fair it's a very good system, tho proprietary, but so are many others. Then you have e-tron (meh), plus the 1st R8 used a VCU.

But all of this is too much to get across in marketing - so "Quattro". Which peeps then run with often not aware of the complexity of the situation. But for just about everyone else, including Pilots, that's good enough.

OP check beyond opinions here. There's much available on recent issues perhaps important to your choice - the oil consumption ran down, the recent engine recalls where catastrophic "Kia-ing" may result, water pumps, electrics. Older issues like timing chain, various oil probs. Tiptronic, S-tronic and manuals are GTG, Multitronic CVT not so much but if sticking with AWD not equipped.

Some Issues tend to be power-train specific. E888 has seen the bulk. If you're careful, you can find a decent option that will likely serve you well, but you'll need to separate the chaff. Like many here, not sure it's the optimal choice for high mile/long term use, but life is short as well.

100 miles a day! You can’t afford German. Buy another cheap commuter car that you will throw mileage on

Stay away from Audi. I have a 2018 Q5 and the PM costs a shit load of money.

This alone would be a deal breaker for me.  Knowing that you may need that dealer for repairs, I wouldn't want it to be that far away.

My nearest Audi dealer is over 200 miles away. I don't use them anyways. Never needed to.

what happened there?

I don't know if they are good or bad, but I am fittin' to find out!!!

My RS3 is in build this week, should see it here end of may if lucky. It's been a two year process.


I am pumped!

So test drove a 2021 Q8 yesterday. Talked with a lovely young lady salesperson who knew her stuff about these vehicles it seemed. No sales pressure whatsoever.

Really enjoyed the drive, handling, power of the car. The interface is a bit overwhelming to me but I think it’s doable for a 53 year old Subaru driver lol.

I appreciate all the advice you guys have given. I’m a bit torn about using such a nice car as a commuter now. I get that better fuel economy and racking up miles on a cheap vehicle makes more sense, I just like the thought of a much better ride and driving experience for all these miles I’m on the road.

Will update if I pull the trigger on the Q8.

Thanks again

Plural or Single?

After switching to Liquimoly my oil consumption returned to “normal”, about a quart every 5k.

It still cracks me up that the owners manual says 1 quart per 1000 miles is normal. Lol

You are correct. Apple Car Play is your friend.

youre getting hosed at the dealer my brother in christ.

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Defect indicated at 1 Qt/L per 1-1.5k miles is pretty standard threshold. Even Toyota's ZE7/158.14 inspection TSB's for the AZ oil consumption is 1 Qt per 1.2k.  I'll bang up BMW for sliding consumption threshold and reducing OCI as litigation created liability - esp on the N (tho I never encountered issues). On the original 15k OCI that's saying 20 quarts added between changes for N and M series is normal. Motorsport engines don't really count.

Know it sounds BS but from failure standpoint Audi's standard isn't an outlier here.

Called to have it picked up, we spitballed and when I changed the AdvKey battery - resolved. Didn't recur while I had it. Have a pic since I sent the warning while troubleshooting.  I searched to see if I had any other pics from fair number of issues (not solely Audi, but I've had enough there ) I've ran into but no dice on the phone.

As you get it's all statistical distribution - shit happens you just hope it doesn't happen to you. Some are more prone, but you normally get something for your trouble.  Still never anything like the C&D long term Subie that chewed its rear bearings and clutch before 30k. Lol.  Not sure the bozo coefficient tho.

You see Hoffman's on the way out? Woulda been inside info a week ago, but I think it's widely spread now. Conflicted.

Cool OP - wish you luck. You've got a taste of variable Audi (VAG)  ownership here. Mixed reliability but likely rewarding.

They do drive nicely. No argument there. I have driven several over the years that friends owned.

I know personally, I dunno, 5 or 6 people who now refer to themselves as "reformed Audi owners". Their tales of woe only ended when they got rid of the cars. And these were mechanically savvy people, meaning they took care of them properly and didn't beat on them. Between them and another friend who was a line mechanic at an Audi dealer and the stories he told of what he saw, I am firmly in the camp of never wanting to own one. However, I do have one other friend who has owned the same Audi sedan for like 25 years and it has been great and trouble-free as far as I can tell. I don't think the odds are good.

Go drive a new WRX if you want a good sporty driving experience.

Makes sense the key battery..

but they usually say "battery in key is low"

I had one with that fault on dash the other day, had a fault stored for "starter jammed" all I could find was within the last few months someone had replaced the OE agm battery for a lead acid and didn't change the coding in the gateway to show the new battery or capacity. I programed it accordingly and the fault never returned.



which is why my car buying advice is always "Drive them all, everything you consider and some you don't, buy the one you actually like"

the thing is, stuff is going to break, or not, and past performances do not predict future results.

They’re designed to maximize profits at the dealership’s service department.

The WRX is a decent package, but disappointed Subie continues to employ VCU in all manuals - including WRX. You can get the more advanced, active and generally superior VTD in WRX CVTs, but no longer in any other top trim, which isn't a great move. Regardless no Xmode and the VCD algorithms seems to be much less aggressive, likely in a slant toward tar performance and NVH. Don’t love open diffs both end either.

STI DCCD was def legit, but it's gone as well. If you can't tell, I'm less than pleased with Subie's decisions here which are trending towards economizing.

Something like the S4 system with the Active Torque Distribution in the Sport Differential improves lateral dynamics noticeably over the WRX on tar and loose surfaces compared to the VCU WRX where reactive distribution lag is noticeable. The VTD system is better, but let down by the CVT. So as much as I'd love to say the Subies a poor man's Audi, it ain't. But you can save $15k if you don't mind a bit longer benchmarks. Still a very good effort, esp for the cheddar, just regressing a bit.

You better post pix

Are you wealthy ?

If the answer is no...

Deserves a thread. Kyalami or Python are fitting for the hoon monster, but 2 years, you go bespoke or demand?

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Knowing you TZL, you're all about this, but prolly the coolest thing on the car.

400/500 - it markets better in Europe. Hope you got the Trofeo R's.