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Posted: 3/24/2024 8:50:30 PM EDT
[#1]
Those gray packs they were wearing seem like the ones used to hold cannisters (pods) of paintballs.
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Posted: 3/24/2024 9:07:02 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It is completely absurd to draw a correlation and I am aghast that this issue has devolved into "If you support Ukraine, you're a leftist" narrative. I support Ukraine's right to defend itself against a brutal foreign invasion because a war of aggression is evil. To me, it's a simple question of morality. If I take your analogy to its logical conclusion, then I could claim "The brutal Communist dictatorship of Kim Jong Un opposes Ukraine. Why are you aligned with China and Kim Jong Un, hmmm?" And if North Korea were brutally invaded by China with the Chinese doing to the North Koreans what the Russians are doing to the Ukrainians, then I would support North Korea's right to defend itself in any way possible. That has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with right and wrong. In your world, objectively good and evil actions are conditional upon what political leanings each side has. If anything, I am disappointed that my side of the political spectrum has chosen to ignore these objective facts simply because the side supporting the Ukrainians more openly are Democrats. First and foremost, I want politicians to do the objectively right/good thing, not blindly be a slave to a party. ETA: Like the current attack on Russia by the terrorists. That's objectively evil. I am opposed to Russia's war against Ukraine, but I also feel sorry for the Russian people killed in this tragedy and hope it doesn't happen again. ETA2: Look at this chart - do the Democrats that think we spend too much money on Ukraine now considered to be awesome Republicans? Do the Republicans who think we're spending too little or just enough all traitors? https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/SR_23.12.07_Ukraine-war_1.png The whole argument is just nuts - trying to pigeonhole people on ONE issue. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: When you find yourself constantly agreeing with leftists, you're the one who needs to step back and think that maybe you need to unfuck yourself. The hardcore Ukraine supporters here never seem to question why they're on the same side with Liberals in this war. They spout the "so you support Putin?" bullshit just like a leftist resorting to "so you support killing children?" in a gun control argument. It is completely absurd to draw a correlation and I am aghast that this issue has devolved into "If you support Ukraine, you're a leftist" narrative. I support Ukraine's right to defend itself against a brutal foreign invasion because a war of aggression is evil. To me, it's a simple question of morality. If I take your analogy to its logical conclusion, then I could claim "The brutal Communist dictatorship of Kim Jong Un opposes Ukraine. Why are you aligned with China and Kim Jong Un, hmmm?" And if North Korea were brutally invaded by China with the Chinese doing to the North Koreans what the Russians are doing to the Ukrainians, then I would support North Korea's right to defend itself in any way possible. That has nothing to do with politics and everything to do with right and wrong. In your world, objectively good and evil actions are conditional upon what political leanings each side has. If anything, I am disappointed that my side of the political spectrum has chosen to ignore these objective facts simply because the side supporting the Ukrainians more openly are Democrats. First and foremost, I want politicians to do the objectively right/good thing, not blindly be a slave to a party. ETA: Like the current attack on Russia by the terrorists. That's objectively evil. I am opposed to Russia's war against Ukraine, but I also feel sorry for the Russian people killed in this tragedy and hope it doesn't happen again. ETA2: Look at this chart - do the Democrats that think we spend too much money on Ukraine now considered to be awesome Republicans? Do the Republicans who think we're spending too little or just enough all traitors? https://www.pewresearch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/12/SR_23.12.07_Ukraine-war_1.png The whole argument is just nuts - trying to pigeonhole people on ONE issue. Well you said a whole bunch of shit that had nothing to do with my point. My point was "ask yourself why the left is supporting this war wholeheartedly when they are traditionally the anti-war group". Why has the left been so vehemently anti-Russia for the last 20 years? Why do they make Russia a scapegoat for everything they don't like? Why are they supporting Ukraine but shitting on Israel for fighting Hamas? The "oppressor/oppressed" narrative has taken hold and turned every conflict into a black and white battle of "good vs evil" where any shades of grey are not allowed. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 9:08:33 PM EDT
[#3]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Putin seems like the kind of man who will order these terrs fed to pigs. The ironic world outcry would be naïve. Until nations begin using terroristic practices actually feared by terrorists, there will be terrorists. Violent human nature doesn’t follow PC World Court rules, Geneva nor Hague Conventions. His police ran from the areana when the shooting started and were utterly incompetent at stopping it. The Cheka-OGPU became aware of a gigantic scandal in connection with the attack on Crocus, which the authorities, and especially the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation, are hiding. In the video recording of the moment when a white Renault stops at Crocus and armed terrorists jump out of it, a large van is visible nearby, and a man next to it. Several of our sources immediately reported that this is a van from the canine service of the Ministry of Internal Affairs of the Russian Federation, which that day participated in security measures for the Picnic concert. In the filming from the hall of the first minutes of the attack, an employee of this service with a dog is clearly visible (the presence of a service weapon is not clear from the filming), who, as soon as the shooting began, quickly runs away. Moreover, the Pavshino police department is located right in the Crocus building. According to the Cheka-OGPU, at the time of the attack it was fully staffed. Weapons are stored there. However, none of the policemen went to protect and save civilians who were attacked by terrorists (only four people). The police chose to run away. That is, Vladimir Kolokoltsev’s subordinates, instead of protecting people who were in danger (and this is their direct responsibility), fled to save themselves. https://t.me/vchkogpu/46960 |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 9:20:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: My point was "ask yourself why the left is supporting this war wholeheartedly when they are traditionally the anti-war group". Quote HistoryQuoted: My point was "ask yourself why the left is supporting this war wholeheartedly when they are traditionally the anti-war group". Same reason 99% of the people here would support Ukraine (beside the pro-Ukraine crowd) if it was trump in office-identity politics. It's no different than when Soldiers and police were on the front lines of the 2020 protests. Leftists saw them as villains, Republicans as heroes. Now it's more or less reversed...mostly. Quoted: Why has the left been so vehemently anti-Russia for the last 20 years? Why do they make Russia a scapegoat for everything they don't like? Why are they supporting Ukraine but shitting on Israel for fighting Hamas? "anti russia"? They were in bed with Russia. They accused Trump of what they were doing. Biden took bribes from the Mayor of Moscow. Hillary had a reset button given to horse face (not MTG), Lavrov. Obama and Biden did squat when Russia first invaded. We can also discuss Uranium one, too. Quoted: The "oppressor/oppressed" narrative has taken hold and turned every conflict into a black and white battle of "good vs evil" where any shades of grey are not allowed. Whether or not you believe Ukraine is pure as the winter snow is immaterial. They have corruption problems. Anyone would be a fool to say they don't. That does not justify mass rape, torture, and the elimination of an entire nation state because you claim ownership and the russification of that group. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 9:31:08 PM EDT
[#5]
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Posted: 3/24/2024 10:02:29 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: His police ran from the areana when the shooting started and were utterly incompetent at stopping it. Moreover, the Pavshino police department is located right in the Crocus building. According to the Cheka-OGPU, at the time of the attack it was fully staffed. Weapons are stored there. However, none of the policemen went to protect and save civilians who were attacked by terrorists (only four people). The police chose to run away. That is, Vladimir Kolokoltsev’s subordinates, instead of protecting people who were in danger (and this is their direct responsibility), fled to save themselves. Maybe they had US style active shooter training like Broward County and Uvalde, and had to go outside to direct traffic and set up a command post. There is enough cowardice in the LE community to go around. I don't think it's an indictment of any nation that their cops are cowards. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 10:06:17 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well you said a whole bunch of shit that had nothing to do with my point. My point was "ask yourself why the left is supporting this war wholeheartedly when they are traditionally the anti-war group". Why has the left been so vehemently anti-Russia for the last 20 years? Why do they make Russia a scapegoat for everything they don't like? Why are they supporting Ukraine but shitting on Israel for fighting Hamas? The "oppressor/oppressed" narrative has taken hold and turned every conflict into a black and white battle of "good vs evil" where any shades of grey are not allowed. And like I said: I don't care. Whatever motivations they have are not my concern. Maybe some of the them just feel like it's the right thing to do. Maybe some Democrats have super nefarious motives. To me it's simply picking the side I see as being in the right. That has nothing to do with whether or not Ukraine was a wonderful place before the war, if they have corruption, or anything else. The discussion of how much is too much support is a completely different topic. ETA: I forgot to mention: Thanks for your clarification. Your initial post screamed "If you align with Ukraine, then you must be a Democrat shill" and apparently that didn't accurately describe what you were saying. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 10:09:23 PM EDT
[#8]
Quote HistoryQuoted: His police ran from the areana when the shooting started and were utterly incompetent at stopping it. Cowards like in Uvalde and Parkland. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 10:29:48 PM EDT
[#9]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Putin seems like the kind of man who will order these terrs fed to pigs. The ironic world outcry would be naïve. Until nations begin using terroristic practices actually feared by terrorists, there will be terrorists. Violent human nature doesn’t follow PC World Court rules, Geneva nor Hague Conventions. There would still be terrorists no matter what you do to them. Hell, the terrorist groups already torture and kill each other in the most gruesome ways but that doesn't stop any of them. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 10:30:35 PM EDT
[#10]
It's funny that the one small guy, while sitting on that bench being photographed like an animal, seems to be coming to the realization of what he has done, and what the rest of his life will be like.
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Posted: 3/24/2024 11:10:52 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well you said a whole bunch of shit that had nothing to do with my point. My point was "ask yourself why the left is supporting this war wholeheartedly when they are traditionally the anti-war group". Why has the left been so vehemently anti-Russia for the last 20 years? Why do they make Russia a scapegoat for everything they don't like? Why are they supporting Ukraine but shitting on Israel for fighting Hamas? The "oppressor/oppressed" narrative has taken hold and turned every conflict into a black and white battle of "good vs evil" where any shades of grey are not allowed. I wonder how the left would be viewing all this if they didn’t blame Russia for Trump 2016. |
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Posted: 3/24/2024 11:28:42 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: 20 years? I wonder how the left would be viewing all this if they didn’t blame Russia for Trump 2016. Remember Hillary's "Reset" button? Russia was the darling of the left. I has to be confusing to a lot of people that Obama and Clinton wanted to build a cordial relationship with Russia, when Trump felt that way, the left acted like fools about it. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 12:00:01 AM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well you said a whole bunch of shit that had nothing to do with my point. My point was "ask yourself why the left is supporting this war wholeheartedly when they are traditionally the anti-war group". Why has the left been so vehemently anti-Russia for the last 20 years? Why do they make Russia a scapegoat for everything they don't like? Why are they supporting Ukraine but shitting on Israel for fighting Hamas? The "oppressor/oppressed" narrative has taken hold and turned every conflict into a black and white battle of "good vs evil" where any shades of grey are not allowed. Cool derangement bro. The..left? has been anti Russia for 20 years? Uhh. Yeah, this must be opposite world. The right has always hated the Soviets then Russia for a century, until recently when the neo right decided they were cool. Contrarianism is for children and shitheads, and anyone who uses it to guide their actions can be ignored and laughed at. And inventing shades of gray from a unilateral invasion is fucking laughable. Nobody buys it. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 12:03:48 AM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remember Hillary's "Reset" button? Russia was the darling of the left. I has to be confusing to a lot of people that Obama and Clinton wanted to build a cordial relationship with Russia, when Trump felt that way, the left acted like fools about it. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: 20 years? I wonder how the left would be viewing all this if they didn't blame Russia for Trump 2016. Remember Hillary's "Reset" button? Russia was the darling of the left. I has to be confusing to a lot of people that Obama and Clinton wanted to build a cordial relationship with Russia, when Trump felt that way, the left acted like fools about it. The "reset button" was a photo op and there was never a reset of any kind. The Obama admin weren't buddies with Russia and the whole "wanted to build a cordial relationship" facade was horseshit. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 12:58:21 AM EDT
[#15]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The "reset button" was a photo op and there was never a reset of any kind. The Obama admin weren't buddies with Russia and the whole "wanted to build a cordial relationship" facade was horseshit. Claiming that the Obama administration was anti-Russia from the start is some real "we've always been at war with Eastasia" shit. Uranium One? Skolkovo? New START? I mean, the Obama administration's attitude towards Russia was literally an issue in the 2012 debate. "The 80's called, they want their foreign policy back," remember? |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 1:07:58 AM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The "reset button" was a photo op and there was never a reset of any kind. The Obama admin weren't buddies with Russia and the whole "wanted to build a cordial relationship" facade was horseshit. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: 20 years? I wonder how the left would be viewing all this if they didn't blame Russia for Trump 2016. Remember Hillary's "Reset" button? Russia was the darling of the left. I has to be confusing to a lot of people that Obama and Clinton wanted to build a cordial relationship with Russia, when Trump felt that way, the left acted like fools about it. The "reset button" was a photo op and there was never a reset of any kind. The Obama admin weren't buddies with Russia and the whole "wanted to build a cordial relationship" facade was horseshit. Barack Obama in open microphone gaffe with Dmitry Medvedev  Barack Obama in open microphone gaffe with Dmitry Medvedev |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 1:13:24 AM EDT
[#17]
Is say that reset button is broken....
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Posted: 3/25/2024 1:35:17 AM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Claiming that the Obama administration was anti-Russia from the start is some real "we've always been at war with Eastasia" shit. Uranium One? Skolkovo? New START? I mean, the Obama administration's attitude towards Russia was literally an issue in the 2012 debate. "The 80's called, they want their foreign policy back," remember? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The "reset button" was a photo op and there was never a reset of any kind. The Obama admin weren't buddies with Russia and the whole "wanted to build a cordial relationship" facade was horseshit. Claiming that the Obama administration was anti-Russia from the start is some real "we've always been at war with Eastasia" shit. Uranium One? Skolkovo? New START? I mean, the Obama administration's attitude towards Russia was literally an issue in the 2012 debate. "The 80's called, they want their foreign policy back," remember? That's all normal behind-the-scenes shit that goes on between adversaries. This thread's topic is a great example. We're actively arming Ukraine so they can kill Russians but our intelligence agencies just warned the Russians about a terror attack. There is always the media/public version of diplomacy and the real version they don't want us to know about. The relationship between the U.S. and Russia did not change during the Obama administration, they just tried to convince the public it was different so Obama could be labeled a "peacemaker". Do ya'll "reset button" believers think Russia wasn't supporting our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan during Obama's terms? Really? |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 2:09:15 AM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's all normal behind-the-scenes shit that goes on between adversaries. This thread's topic is a great example. We're actively arming Ukraine so they can kill Russians but our intelligence agencies just warned the Russians about a terror attack. There is always the media/public version of diplomacy and the real version they don't want us to know about. The relationship between the U.S. and Russia did not change during the Obama administration, they just tried to convince the public it was different so Obama could be labeled a "peacemaker". Do ya'll "reset button" believers think Russia wasn't supporting our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan during Obama's terms? Really? Let's pretend for a second that you're right, and that the public perception that the Obama administration was pushing to normalize relations with Russia was all a ruse intended to fool his supporters. That would mean Obama's supporters, aka the left, wanted improved relations with Russia. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:32:41 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's all normal behind-the-scenes shit that goes on between adversaries. This thread's topic is a great example. We're actively arming Ukraine so they can kill Russians but our intelligence agencies just warned the Russians about a terror attack. There is always the media/public version of diplomacy and the real version they don't want us to know about. The relationship between the U.S. and Russia did not change during the Obama administration, they just tried to convince the public it was different so Obama could be labeled a "peacemaker". Do ya'll "reset button" believers think Russia wasn't supporting our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan during Obama's terms? Really? |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:39:14 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Let's pretend for a second that you're right, and that the public perception that the Obama administration was pushing to normalize relations with Russia was all a ruse intended to fool his supporters. That would mean Obama's supporters, aka the left, wanted improved relations with Russia. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: That's all normal behind-the-scenes shit that goes on between adversaries. This thread's topic is a great example. We're actively arming Ukraine so they can kill Russians but our intelligence agencies just warned the Russians about a terror attack. There is always the media/public version of diplomacy and the real version they don't want us to know about. The relationship between the U.S. and Russia did not change during the Obama administration, they just tried to convince the public it was different so Obama could be labeled a "peacemaker". Do ya'll "reset button" believers think Russia wasn't supporting our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan during Obama's terms? Really? Let's pretend for a second that you're right, and that the public perception that the Obama administration was pushing to normalize relations with Russia was all a ruse intended to fool his supporters. That would mean Obama's supporters, aka the left, wanted improved relations with Russia. Leftists follow the ideas of the leadership, not the other way around. I see you ignored my last question. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:41:01 AM EDT
[#22]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Same reason 99% of the people here would support Ukraine (beside the pro-Ukraine crowd) if it was trump in office-identity politics. It's no different than when Soldiers and police were on the front lines of the 2020 protests. Leftists saw them as villains, Republicans as heroes. Now it's more or less reversed...mostly. "anti russia"? They were in bed with Russia. They accused Trump of what they were doing. Biden took bribes from the Mayor of Moscow. Hillary had a reset button given to horse face (not MTG), Lavrov. Obama and Biden did squat when Russia first invaded. We can also discuss Uranium one, too. Whether or not you believe Ukraine is pure as the winter snow is immaterial. They have corruption problems. Anyone would be a fool to say they don't. That does not justify mass rape, torture, and the elimination of an entire nation state because you claim ownership and the russification of that group. Very well written post. Still it’s hard to wrap my mind around making the enforcement of Ukraine’s borders a priority of the United States when United States border enforcement is not a priority. It would be better for everyone involved if the xenophobic Ukrainian’s would embrace the fact that diversity is their strength, that the Russians are their looking for a better life by accessing resources not available to them in their home country. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:41:44 AM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Ukraine did it, and only reason they are pinning it on ISIS is because Ukraine is grubby and wants more of our money, nobody is going to support them no more if they committed acts of terrorism on civilians. ISIS takes orders from Obama, who ordered them to falsely take credit for the attack to stir confusion and draw suspicion away from the Ukraine. Just when I think I’ve seen it all at this place. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:43:33 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Maybe they had US style active shooter training like Broward County and Uvalde, and had to go outside to direct traffic and set up a command post. There is enough cowardice in the LE community to go around. I don't think it's an indictment of any nation that their cops are cowards. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: His police ran from the areana when the shooting started and were utterly incompetent at stopping it. Moreover, the Pavshino police department is located right in the Crocus building. According to the Cheka-OGPU, at the time of the attack it was fully staffed. Weapons are stored there. However, none of the policemen went to protect and save civilians who were attacked by terrorists (only four people). The police chose to run away. That is, Vladimir Kolokoltsev’s subordinates, instead of protecting people who were in danger (and this is their direct responsibility), fled to save themselves. Maybe they had US style active shooter training like Broward County and Uvalde, and had to go outside to direct traffic and set up a command post. There is enough cowardice in the LE community to go around. I don't think it's an indictment of any nation that their cops are cowards. The reason is very simple really. They just didn’t want to get clapped. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 9:56:50 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's all normal behind-the-scenes shit that goes on between adversaries. This thread's topic is a great example. We're actively arming Ukraine so they can kill Russians but our intelligence agencies just warned the Russians about a terror attack. There is always the media/public version of diplomacy and the real version they don't want us to know about. The relationship between the U.S. and Russia did not change during the Obama administration, they just tried to convince the public it was different so Obama could be labeled a "peacemaker". Do ya'll "reset button" believers think Russia wasn't supporting our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan during Obama's terms? Really? It's not like Obama gave billions to Terrorist supporting nations like Iran. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:02:50 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well you said a whole bunch of shit that had nothing to do with my point. My point was "ask yourself why the left is supporting this war wholeheartedly when they are traditionally the anti-war group". Why has the left been so vehemently anti-Russia for the last 20 years? Why do they make Russia a scapegoat for everything they don't like? Why are they supporting Ukraine but shitting on Israel for fighting Hamas? The "oppressor/oppressed" narrative has taken hold and turned every conflict into a black and white battle of "good vs evil" where any shades of grey are not allowed. I'm old enough to remember Reagan urging Gorbachev to "tear down this wall". He increased defense spending that the Russians tried to match but drove them to practical insolvency. A more pertinent question would be to ask what drove the Republicans to become apologists for Russia. For Christ's sake, Gen. Michael Flynn was photographed sitting at a table with Putin during an RT celebration! I suspect the only reason to adopt their current policy was so they could stick a pointy stick in the eyes of Dem's. The only thing the Republican Congress is interested in is identifying the next policy the Dem's want to pursue and then act viscerally and take the diametric opposite position. Reagan's party is dead and gone. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:09:01 AM EDT
[#27]
OOhhhh TERROR!
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:12:12 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well you said a whole bunch of shit that had nothing to do with my point. My point was "ask yourself why the left is supporting this war wholeheartedly when they are traditionally the anti-war group". Why has the left been so vehemently anti-Russia for the last 20 years? Why do they make Russia a scapegoat for everything they don't like? Why are they supporting Ukraine but shitting on Israel for fighting Hamas? The "oppressor/oppressed" narrative has taken hold and turned every conflict into a black and white battle of "good vs evil" where any shades of grey are not allowed. These are points and questions that need to be answered. I was raised in the cold war / evil empire era, and now I'm not so sure we aren't getting lied to. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:15:28 AM EDT
[#29]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm old enough to remember Reagan urging Gorbachev to "tear down this wall". He increased defense spending that the Russians tried to match but drove them to practical insolvency. A more pertinent question would be to ask what drove the Republicans to become apologists for Russia. For Christ's sake, Gen. Michael Flynn was photographed sitting at a table with Putin during an RT celebration! I suspect the only reason to adopt their current policy was so they could stick a pointy stick in the eyes of Dem's. The only thing the Republican Congress is interested in is identifying the next policy the Dem's want to pursue and then act viscerally and take the diametric opposite position. Reagan's party is dead and gone. Flynn is a Democrat. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:16:28 AM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Want to stay busy on arfcom for hours? Play the is this guy fucking with me or does he actually believe what he just posted game. New content every few minutes! There is so much of both it's hard to tell. Crazy world. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:34:10 AM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: These are points and questions that need to be answered. I was raised in the cold war / evil empire era, and now I'm not so sure we aren't getting lied to. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well you said a whole bunch of shit that had nothing to do with my point. My point was "ask yourself why the left is supporting this war wholeheartedly when they are traditionally the anti-war group". Why has the left been so vehemently anti-Russia for the last 20 years? Why do they make Russia a scapegoat for everything they don't like? Why are they supporting Ukraine but shitting on Israel for fighting Hamas? The "oppressor/oppressed" narrative has taken hold and turned every conflict into a black and white battle of "good vs evil" where any shades of grey are not allowed. These are points and questions that need to be answered. I was raised in the cold war / evil empire era, and now I'm not so sure we aren't getting lied to. When was the last time we weren't lied to? They have ALWAYS concealed the real reasons for any conflict because "spreading democracy" and "defending freedom" sell to Joe Sixpack. Reality is much more convoluted. Nobody seems to ask why there's always a conflict somewhere that needs some American weaponry involved and why the MIC donates shit tons of money to the people who decide when and where we send troops/supplies. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 10:43:09 AM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm old enough to remember Reagan urging Gorbachev to "tear down this wall". He increased defense spending that the Russians tried to match but drove them to practical insolvency. A more pertinent question would be to ask what drove the Republicans to become apologists for Russia. For Christ's sake, Gen. Michael Flynn was photographed sitting at a table with Putin during an RT celebration! I suspect the only reason to adopt their current policy was so they could stick a pointy stick in the eyes of Dem's. The only thing the Republican Congress is interested in is identifying the next policy the Dem's want to pursue and then act viscerally and take the diametric opposite position. Reagan's party is dead and gone. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Well you said a whole bunch of shit that had nothing to do with my point. My point was "ask yourself why the left is supporting this war wholeheartedly when they are traditionally the anti-war group". Why has the left been so vehemently anti-Russia for the last 20 years? Why do they make Russia a scapegoat for everything they don't like? Why are they supporting Ukraine but shitting on Israel for fighting Hamas? The "oppressor/oppressed" narrative has taken hold and turned every conflict into a black and white battle of "good vs evil" where any shades of grey are not allowed. I'm old enough to remember Reagan urging Gorbachev to "tear down this wall". He increased defense spending that the Russians tried to match but drove them to practical insolvency. A more pertinent question would be to ask what drove the Republicans to become apologists for Russia. For Christ's sake, Gen. Michael Flynn was photographed sitting at a table with Putin during an RT celebration! I suspect the only reason to adopt their current policy was so they could stick a pointy stick in the eyes of Dem's. The only thing the Republican Congress is interested in is identifying the next policy the Dem's want to pursue and then act viscerally and take the diametric opposite position. Reagan's party is dead and gone. I wouldn't say the Republicans are "apologists for Russia" as much as they don't see Russia as the big bad boogeyman the left has turned them into. Trump was right, we (and the rest of the world) would greatly benefit by having a friendlier relationship with Russia. We've been fighting proxy wars against Russia for decades to protect the petrodollar. Russia tried to join NATO but that would have made NATO irrelevant and stopped the gravy train of U.S. taxpayer dollars going to the rest of the world so they were denied. The world needs a "good guy vs bad guy" illusion at all times to justify all the billions that are spent on defense by the world's superpowers and keep the population in a constant state of fear so the governments remain relevant. Peace is bad for business and causes people to ask uncomfortable questions. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:01:43 AM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm old enough to remember Reagan urging Gorbachev to "tear down this wall". He increased defense spending that the Russians tried to match but drove them to practical insolvency. A more pertinent question would be to ask what drove the Republicans to become apologists for Russia. For Christ's sake, Gen. Michael Flynn was photographed sitting at a table with Putin during an RT celebration! I suspect the only reason to adopt their current policy was so they could stick a pointy stick in the eyes of Dem's. The only thing the Republican Congress is interested in is identifying the next policy the Dem's want to pursue and then act viscerally and take the diametric opposite position. Reagan's party is dead and gone. I also am old enough to remember Senator Ted Kennedy traveling to Moscow in the early 80's trying to solicit help from Moscow to work against President Reagan for the 1984 election. Dems have cozied up to Commies throughout my lifetime. When they needed an excuse for Orange man bad the evil Russians were a natural choice. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:14:31 AM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Also, titanium is dirt cheap over there. Titanium muzzle brakes and boosters are not uncommon. Especially on a stolen rifle. I remember 20$ Russian titanium crow bars being sold back in the day through various mail order magazines. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:34:42 AM EDT
[#36]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Leftists follow the ideas of the leadership, not the other way around. I see you ignored my last question. So if I understand your beliefs correctly, you think the Obama administration was secretly antagonistic to Russia while publicly pursuing better relations with Russia in order to appease their followers; followers who would have followed the ideas of the administration whatever they were? Are you sure your beliefs are internally consistent? Russia was not a major player in Iraq or Afghanistan. The question is irrelevant anyway; we're talking about whether the left was secretly anti-Russia, not whether Russia was antagonistic to the US. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:37:52 AM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if I understand your beliefs correctly, you think the Obama administration was secretly antagonistic to Russia while publicly pursuing better relations with Russia in order to appease their followers; followers who would have followed the ideas of the administration whatever they were? Are you sure your beliefs are internally consistent? Russia was not a major player in Iraq or Afghanistan. The question is irrelevant anyway; we're talking about whether the left was secretly anti-Russia, not whether Russia was antagonistic to the US. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Leftists follow the ideas of the leadership, not the other way around. I see you ignored my last question. So if I understand your beliefs correctly, you think the Obama administration was secretly antagonistic to Russia while publicly pursuing better relations with Russia in order to appease their followers; followers who would have followed the ideas of the administration whatever they were? Are you sure your beliefs are internally consistent? Russia was not a major player in Iraq or Afghanistan. The question is irrelevant anyway; we're talking about whether the left was secretly anti-Russia, not whether Russia was antagonistic to the US. You're thinking too black and white with "anti-Russia/pro-Russia". |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:42:40 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: You're thinking too black and white with "anti-Russia/pro-Russia". Bud, you're the one who claimed the left had been "vehemently anti-Russia for 20 years." That's a pretty black and white statement. It's also not born out by the facts at all. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:43:36 AM EDT
[#39]
Russian border guards and FSB agents were seen furiously battering a man understood to be suspect Saidakrami Murodalii Rachabalizoda after chasing him through dense woodlands, in the 90-second-long clip shared to Telegram.
Moments later, an enraged soldier sliced off Rachabalizoda's ear with a knife and forced him to eat it. Video    Link |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:43:51 AM EDT
[#40]
Meet the new boss.
Same as the old boss. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:50:17 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Russian border guards and FSB agents were seen furiously battering a man understood to be suspect Saidakrami Murodalii Rachabalizoda after chasing him through dense woodlands, in the 90-second-long clip shared to Telegram. Moments later, an enraged soldier sliced off Rachabalizoda's ear with a knife and forced him to eat it. Video https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/03/25/11/82856561-13235419-image-m-19_1711364703730.jpg https://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/03/25/11/82856557-13235419-image-m-27_1711364787044.jpghttps://i.dailymail.co.uk/1s/2024/03/25/11/82856559-13235419-image-m-25_1711364754931.jpg Link Good. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:58:41 AM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So if I understand your beliefs correctly, you think the Obama administration was secretly antagonistic to Russia while publicly pursuing better relations with Russia in order to appease their followers; followers who would have followed the ideas of the administration whatever they were? Are you sure your beliefs are internally consistent? Russia was not a major player in Iraq or Afghanistan. The question is irrelevant anyway; we're talking about whether the left was secretly anti-Russia, not whether Russia was antagonistic to the US. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Leftists follow the ideas of the leadership, not the other way around. I see you ignored my last question. So if I understand your beliefs correctly, you think the Obama administration was secretly antagonistic to Russia while publicly pursuing better relations with Russia in order to appease their followers; followers who would have followed the ideas of the administration whatever they were? Are you sure your beliefs are internally consistent? Russia was not a major player in Iraq or Afghanistan. The question is irrelevant anyway; we're talking about whether the left was secretly anti-Russia, not whether Russia was antagonistic to the US. Pardon if I’m interjecting where I don’t belong, but I recall the Obama administration attitude changing over time regarding Russia. Notably around the Arab Spring getting stalled by the Syrian government pushback. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 11:59:44 AM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The "reset button" was a photo op and there was never a reset of any kind. The Obama admin weren't buddies with Russia and the whole "wanted to build a cordial relationship" facade was horseshit. How seriously misguided and foolish of you. Why would they have that photo op if they weren't trying to build bridges? That was the point. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 12:15:32 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted: A more pertinent question would be to ask what drove the Republicans to become apologists for Russia. For Christ's sake, Gen. Michael Flynn was photographed sitting at a table with Putin during an RT celebration! My bet is that with Russia sponsoring some of our enemies, they were attempting to establish some type of cordial relations to increase our influence over Russia. If Putin stood to gain more from a relationship with the US, then he might not support Iran like he does. Trump himself said something along the lines that a cordial relationship would be mutually beneficial to both nations. Do you ever wonder why the US gives Egypt the amount of foreign aid that we do? It's payment to not start a war with Israel. Any serious war on Israel would require Egypt, and if they are on the sidelines, any attempt won't go far. Take our money, you take our orders. The reason sanctions don't work on Putin is that there isn't enough money and leverage involved to cut off. Those of you who have memory issues with regard to Democrats and Russians, think back to when the Soviet Union went into Chapter 11. Clinton bent over backwards to help them stay afloat. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 1:51:35 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Pardon if I’m interjecting where I don’t belong, but I recall the Obama administration attitude changing over time regarding Russia. Notably around the Arab Spring getting stalled by the Syrian government pushback. Yeah, thats pretty much how the rest of the world remembers it. The Obama administration started off blaming the Bush administration for our poor relationship with Russia and trying a kinder gentler approach, with Republicans advocating harsher measures. The left didn't really start to turn around on Russia until the Syrian Civil War got rolling, with the full turn against Russia following the 2014 invasion of Ukraine. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 1:53:00 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well you said a whole bunch of shit that had nothing to do with my point. My point was "ask yourself why the left is supporting this war wholeheartedly when they are traditionally the anti-war group". Why has the left been so vehemently anti-Russia for the last 20 years? Why do they make Russia a scapegoat for everything they don't like? Why are they supporting Ukraine but shitting on Israel for fighting Hamas? The "oppressor/oppressed" narrative has taken hold and turned every conflict into a black and white battle of "good vs evil" where any shades of grey are not allowed. The US left only became anti Russia around 2016. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 1:59:34 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Remember Hillary's "Reset" button? Russia was the darling of the left. I has to be confusing to a lot of people that Obama and Clinton wanted to build a cordial relationship with Russia, when Trump felt that way, the left acted like fools about it. Obama withdrew the Eastern European part of the missile defense shield unilaterally. Trump re-instated it. Plenty more examples like that showing that Trump wasn't the one compromised by Russia. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 2:07:02 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's all normal behind-the-scenes shit that goes on between adversaries. This thread's topic is a great example. We're actively arming Ukraine so they can kill Russians but our intelligence agencies just warned the Russians about a terror attack. There is always the media/public version of diplomacy and the real version they don't want us to know about. The relationship between the U.S. and Russia did not change during the Obama administration, they just tried to convince the public it was different so Obama could be labeled a "peacemaker". Do ya'll "reset button" believers think Russia wasn't supporting our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan during Obama's terms? Really? Obama needed Russia due to the Iran Deal. Even after the Ukraine war Biden depends on Russia to negotiate for the US with Iran  .Biden didn't want the Ukraine war. But now that it happened, he's invested and rolling with it. Prior to the invasion he was trying to pull back on providing Javelins, something Trump provided and Obama refused. Without Trump I doubt Ukraine would have held back the initial Russian invasion. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 2:11:40 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Claiming that the Obama administration was anti-Russia from the start is some real "we've always been at war with Eastasia" shit. Uranium One? Skolkovo? New START? I mean, the Obama administration's attitude towards Russia was literally an issue in the 2012 debate. "The 80's called, they want their foreign policy back," remember? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: The "reset button" was a photo op and there was never a reset of any kind. The Obama admin weren't buddies with Russia and the whole "wanted to build a cordial relationship" facade was horseshit. Claiming that the Obama administration was anti-Russia from the start is some real "we've always been at war with Eastasia" shit. Uranium One? Skolkovo? New START? I mean, the Obama administration's attitude towards Russia was literally an issue in the 2012 debate. "The 80's called, they want their foreign policy back," remember? I remember. The left has only been publicly opposed to Russia since 2015. |
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Posted: 3/25/2024 2:14:44 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Do ya'll "reset button" believers think Russia wasn't supporting our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan during Obama's terms? Really? Obama supported Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas. The claim Russia was offering rewards for dead Americans in Afghanistan was without solid evidence. I doubt Russia is happy about the Taliban. They were probably happy to have the US there. There were issues in places like Syria, where the US and Russia were at odds. Although more so with Trump, who bombed the airbase there and killed Russians who attacked a US outpost. Obama's policies in the region were mostly about pushing the Iran Deal. That put him on the pro Russia side of things. Biden's policies are just a continuation of Obama's. |
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