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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:41:47 AM EDT
[#1]
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Yes, but just not in the right places, I spoke with someone who had the idea of putting chargers on street light posts in parking lots, Seems like a better idea than running new wires. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:42:11 AM EDT
[#2]
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So at what point are you the joglee of Tesla? Tesla has a path to profitability: convincing drivers that autopilot is viable and their product is the best, so other companies license it or consumers only buy their cars. Kharn Are you insulting the messenger because you don't like the message? Tesla lags several other car maker in self driving tech, and will have to retrofit all existing Teslas with new hardware to make them autonomous. If anyone would be expected to perfect L5 and license it to car makers, it would be Waymo. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:45:26 AM EDT
[#3]
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Seekingalpha copypasta, written by shorts with a vested interest... I'm sure they'll move on to something else after, before it was Model X delays, Autopilot, Gigafactory problems, etc. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Gross profit. Operating profit. Net profit. The distinction is important, and explained multiple times in this thread. If Tesla stopped investing for growth they would then only lose money on every car they make, instead of losing money on every car they make and losing money by investing in growth like they do now. The best they can do is stop losing money altogether. They would do this by ceasing to invest in growth, and turning off the assembly lines for all of their products. They currently have no avenue to make a net profit, and it looks unlikely that that will change any time soon. The demand for their products has already stopped growing. S sales have been flat for 7 quarters. X sales have been flat for 4 quarters. Powerwall sales are virtually nonexistent. The Solar Roof is a vaporware hoax product. In the coming quarters we'll see how well they can increase Model 3 production, how many of the 500,000 gross reservations become orders, and what the actual demand is. Amazon stockholders were not taking near the risk. Amazon had free cash flow after only about 4 years of operation. Tesla is 14 years old and has never had positive free cash flow. I'm sure they'll move on to something else after, before it was Model X delays, Autopilot, Gigafactory problems, etc. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:46:34 AM EDT
[#4]
It's pretty amazing how the political polarization nowadays has created a kind supercharged confirmation bias.
Elon Musk's views on climate change mean that he is a complete husker who steals candy from babies and all of his accomplishments are off the backs of others. Business leaders (like Trump) who agree with you are Ayn Randian superheroes who are pure as the driven snow, and any subsidies/kickbacks they take are just the realities of modern business. There is no middle ground. The left took up identity politics and the right is making their own. No thinking allowed, just whether or not they are on "your team"... Thinking is not necessary. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:00:36 AM EDT
[#5]
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What does it mean to be the joglee of Tesla? I try to only present the objective numbers. I don't make hard pronouncements about the future; only predictions based on past performance and current situation, but always appropriately hedged in language. Are you insulting the messenger because you don't like the message? Tesla lags several other car maker in self driving tech, and will have to retrofit all existing Teslas with new hardware to make them autonomous. If anyone would be expected to perfect L5 and license it to car makers, it would be Waymo. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So at what point are you the joglee of Tesla? Tesla has a path to profitability: convincing drivers that autopilot is viable and their product is the best, so other companies license it or consumers only buy their cars. Kharn Are you insulting the messenger because you don't like the message? Tesla lags several other car maker in self driving tech, and will have to retrofit all existing Teslas with new hardware to make them autonomous. If anyone would be expected to perfect L5 and license it to car makers, it would be Waymo. Ask 100 people on the street who Tesla is and who Waymo is. Brand recognition and being first to market is a powerful position. Plus, why retrofit? $100k car consumers buy cars pretty often, they'll be happy to buy a 2019 or 2020 Model S or X with lidar if that's what Tesla finds they need for SAE 5, then it could come to the Model 3 the next year. The old ones wouldn't be upgraded with new hardware, GM and Ford don't add back up cameras to old cars. Kharn |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:11:32 AM EDT
[#6]
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It's pretty amazing how the political polarization nowadays has created a kind supercharged confirmation bias. Elon Musk's views on climate change mean that he is a complete husker who steals candy from babies and all of his accomplishments are off the backs of others. Business leaders (like Trump) who agree with you are Ayn Randian superheroes who are pure as the driven snow, and any subsidies/kickbacks they take are just the realities of modern business. There is no middle ground. The left took up identity politics and the right is making their own. No thinking allowed, just whether or not they are on "your team"... Thinking is not necessary. You, sir, have made a mockery of everything we hold dear. Elon Mush is worse then a huckster. He is LITERALLY Stalin incarnate. If we allow Mush to keep doing what he is doing, between Tesla and SpaceX, he will take every single hard earned cent I have ever made and you have ever made. His products are literally vaporware. tell me, have you ever seen a Tesla on the street? I think not, because they don't exist. Have you seen a SpaceX Rocket fly? Again I think not. Mush is LITERALLY lying about everything and has the backing of Obama and Tax Subsidies and Liberal Media and that is why he is so hip. Just wait and see, Mush will fail and all his Tesla cars will be worth junk, everyone who bought Tesla stock will be poor like they should be, and my 1991 Ford Ranger will keep on truckin. All you Mush lovers are idiots and deserve your Liberal Messiah Huckster. I like Companies who don't take subsadies, like Boeing, GM, LockMart, Ford, Chrysler, GE, Alcoa, Nike, Shell. They are good AMERICAN companies who don't need the governments help, making all their products in AMERICA!!!! Mush Huckster lovers sickatate me!!!! YOU ARE ALL A DISEASE!!!! |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:25:55 AM EDT
[#7]
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Go search for joglee's post history and you'll see. Ask 100 people on the street who Tesla is and who Waymo is. Brand recognition and being first to market is a powerful position. Plus, why retrofit? $100k car consumers buy cars pretty often, they'll be happy to buy a 2019 or 2020 Model S or X with lidar if that's what Tesla finds they need for SAE 5, then it could come to the Model 3 the next year. The old ones wouldn't be upgraded with new hardware, GM and Ford don't add back up cameras to old cars. Kharn Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So at what point are you the joglee of Tesla? Tesla has a path to profitability: convincing drivers that autopilot is viable and their product is the best, so other companies license it or consumers only buy their cars. Kharn Are you insulting the messenger because you don't like the message? Tesla lags several other car maker in self driving tech, and will have to retrofit all existing Teslas with new hardware to make them autonomous. If anyone would be expected to perfect L5 and license it to car makers, it would be Waymo. Ask 100 people on the street who Tesla is and who Waymo is. Brand recognition and being first to market is a powerful position. Plus, why retrofit? $100k car consumers buy cars pretty often, they'll be happy to buy a 2019 or 2020 Model S or X with lidar if that's what Tesla finds they need for SAE 5, then it could come to the Model 3 the next year. The old ones wouldn't be upgraded with new hardware, GM and Ford don't add back up cameras to old cars. Kharn It's highly unlikely that Tesla will be first to the market with an L5 car. The available objective data say that several companies are ahead of them in autonomous capability. Tesla claims that all cars it has produced since late last year have all the hardware for L5 driving. People who are experts on self driving disagree based on teardowns showing anemic processing power and lack of LIDAR. Short of a miracle, Tesla will have to retrofit the cars with better hardware to make it work. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:43:32 AM EDT
[#8]
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Be specific. Lay out your accusations, unless you just mean to use innuendo and not address any objective problems with my analysis. You made the connection between me and joglee; you back it up. It's highly unlikely that Tesla will be first to the market with an L5 car. The available objective data say that several companies are ahead of them in autonomous capability. Tesla claims that all cars it has produced since late last year have all the hardware for L5 driving. People who are experts on self driving disagree based on teardowns showing anemic processing power and lack of LIDAR. Short of a miracle, Tesla will have to retrofit the cars with better hardware to make it work. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So at what point are you the joglee of Tesla? Tesla has a path to profitability: convincing drivers that autopilot is viable and their product is the best, so other companies license it or consumers only buy their cars. Kharn Are you insulting the messenger because you don't like the message? Tesla lags several other car maker in self driving tech, and will have to retrofit all existing Teslas with new hardware to make them autonomous. If anyone would be expected to perfect L5 and license it to car makers, it would be Waymo. Ask 100 people on the street who Tesla is and who Waymo is. Brand recognition and being first to market is a powerful position. Plus, why retrofit? $100k car consumers buy cars pretty often, they'll be happy to buy a 2019 or 2020 Model S or X with lidar if that's what Tesla finds they need for SAE 5, then it could come to the Model 3 the next year. The old ones wouldn't be upgraded with new hardware, GM and Ford don't add back up cameras to old cars. Kharn It's highly unlikely that Tesla will be first to the market with an L5 car. The available objective data say that several companies are ahead of them in autonomous capability. Tesla claims that all cars it has produced since late last year have all the hardware for L5 driving. People who are experts on self driving disagree based on teardowns showing anemic processing power and lack of LIDAR. Short of a miracle, Tesla will have to retrofit the cars with better hardware to make it work. Kharn |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 10:28:51 AM EDT
[#9]
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Are you paid by (directly or indirectly) or on the payroll of, or taking a stock position on, any company discussed in this thread? Kharn I've stated before that I own long dated puts as a bet that Tesla will go bankrupt. It's also likely that I own some shares, or at least partial shares, of Ford or GM through an index fund, though I'm not certain. What does this have to do with joglee? |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 11:06:40 AM EDT
[#10]
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My employer does not compete with Tesla at all; there's no relation there. I've stated before that I own long dated puts as a bet that Tesla will go bankrupt. It's also likely that I own some shares, or at least partial shares, of Ford or GM through an index fund, though I'm not certain. What does this have to do with joglee? Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Are you paid by (directly or indirectly) or on the payroll of, or taking a stock position on, any company discussed in this thread? Kharn I've stated before that I own long dated puts as a bet that Tesla will go bankrupt. It's also likely that I own some shares, or at least partial shares, of Ford or GM through an index fund, though I'm not certain. What does this have to do with joglee? Kharn |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 11:15:34 AM EDT
[#11]
I'm very dubious about Tesla's ability to go from 30 handbuilt cars to 500,000 annual production in a year. Even the big guys like Hyundai, Honda, and Kia that have assembly plants in the southeast don't produce but just over 300,000 vehicles a year each and all those plants are operating at or above rated capacity. I don't care how smart Musk or his team are there is a metric ton of processing engineering that has to be done. Even Morgan Stanley puts them at 2024 before they will hit that kind of production.
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Posted: 8/2/2017 11:24:59 AM EDT
[#12]
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Resistance. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 12:13:48 PM EDT
[#13]
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I'm very dubious about Tesla's ability to go from 30 handbuilt cars to 500,000 annual production in a year. Even the big guys like Hyundai, Honda, and Kia that have assembly plants in the southeast don't produce but just over 300,000 vehicles a year each and all those plants are operating at or above rated capacity. I don't care how smart Musk or his team are there is a metric ton of processing engineering that has to be done. Even Morgan Stanley puts them at 2024 before they will hit that kind of production. They need to make some major gains in manufacturing efficiency too, otherwise they'll have to hire 30,000 more employees at the plant to make those cars at their current cars/assembly-worker ratio. Their manufacturing efficiency needs to increase almost 450% just to match what the previous owners were doing there almost twenty years ago. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 12:19:50 PM EDT
[#14]
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Yeah, in addition to powering the street lights, simply utilize the existing lamp post wiring and underground conduits that are already in place to supply the power necessary to provide charging for electric cars. 
Why run new wires? 
You've got to be trolling this thread. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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LOL. I suspect there are more outlets than gas pumps...
Why run new wires?
You've got to be trolling this thread. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 12:45:05 PM EDT
[#15]
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Historically Tesla has only utilized its Fremont plant at about 18% of the efficiency and 25% of the capacity that Toyota and GM did when they ran it together. In order for them to produce at an annual run rate of 500k Model 3s and 100k Model S/X, they would have to run it at almost 50% greater capacity than Toyota/GM we're ever able to achieve there. They need to make some major gains in manufacturing efficiency too, otherwise they'll have to hire 30,000 more employees at the plant to make those cars at their current cars/assembly-worker ratio. Their manufacturing efficiency needs to increase almost 450% just to match what the previous owners were doing there almost twenty years ago. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm very dubious about Tesla's ability to go from 30 handbuilt cars to 500,000 annual production in a year. Even the big guys like Hyundai, Honda, and Kia that have assembly plants in the southeast don't produce but just over 300,000 vehicles a year each and all those plants are operating at or above rated capacity. I don't care how smart Musk or his team are there is a metric ton of processing engineering that has to be done. Even Morgan Stanley puts them at 2024 before they will hit that kind of production. They need to make some major gains in manufacturing efficiency too, otherwise they'll have to hire 30,000 more employees at the plant to make those cars at their current cars/assembly-worker ratio. Their manufacturing efficiency needs to increase almost 450% just to match what the previous owners were doing there almost twenty years ago. But Elon Musk thought he was smarter than the Toyota folks. I'm not certain what game Musk is playing, but it certainly won't end with Musk in charge of a profitable car company. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 2:23:41 PM EDT
[#16]
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If anyone could have made that Fremont NUMMI plant successful it would have been Toyota. Arguably, Toyota is the best car manufacturer in the world. Toyota gave up and closed that plant. But Elon Musk thought he was smarter than the Toyota folks. I'm not certain what game Musk is playing, but it certainly won't end with Musk in charge of a profitable car company. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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I'm very dubious about Tesla's ability to go from 30 handbuilt cars to 500,000 annual production in a year. Even the big guys like Hyundai, Honda, and Kia that have assembly plants in the southeast don't produce but just over 300,000 vehicles a year each and all those plants are operating at or above rated capacity. I don't care how smart Musk or his team are there is a metric ton of processing engineering that has to be done. Even Morgan Stanley puts them at 2024 before they will hit that kind of production. They need to make some major gains in manufacturing efficiency too, otherwise they'll have to hire 30,000 more employees at the plant to make those cars at their current cars/assembly-worker ratio. Their manufacturing efficiency needs to increase almost 450% just to match what the previous owners were doing there almost twenty years ago. But Elon Musk thought he was smarter than the Toyota folks. I'm not certain what game Musk is playing, but it certainly won't end with Musk in charge of a profitable car company. Kharn |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 2:49:19 PM EDT
[#17]
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NUMMI had UAW workers, Toyota probably wasn't fond of that arrangement. Kharn UAW is not why Toyota decided to exit NUMMI. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 3:29:18 PM EDT
[#18]
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One slow charger per lighting circuit enabled only when the lights are off. That circuit is sitting idle half the time anyway. Just kidding. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 3:35:03 PM EDT
[#19]
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NUMMI had UAW workers, Toyota probably wasn't fond of that arrangement. Kharn |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 4:17:24 PM EDT
[#20]
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The answer to your 'probably' is available via a simple Google search. UAW is not why Toyota decided to exit NUMMI. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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NUMMI had UAW workers, Toyota probably wasn't fond of that arrangement. Kharn UAW is not why Toyota decided to exit NUMMI. Plus, with big unions, you don't always want to spit in their face since they might get a vote in one of your more necessary plants and win. Thus why Toyota (or any other brand) will never say anything negative about them publicly. Kharn |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 4:47:03 PM EDT
[#21]
Tesla shares jump after hours to $340 on positive revenue
https://electrek.co/2017/08/02/tesla-tsla-q2-2017-earnings/ Averaging 1,800 net new Model 3 orders every day Looks like the seekingalpha echochamber of Doom is going to have to wait.... |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 4:58:56 PM EDT
[#22]
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His products are literally vaporware. tell me, have you ever seen a Tesla on the street? I think not, because they don't exist. 
Have you never seen a Tesla on the street? |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 5:00:59 PM EDT
[#23]
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Tesla shares jump after hours to $340 on positive revenue https://electrek.co/2017/08/02/tesla-tsla-q2-2017-earnings/ Averaging 1,800 net new Model 3 orders every day Looks like the seekingalpha echochamber of Doom is going to have to wait.... I understand the statement but have always enjoyed how business writers refer to losses as 'missed earnings'. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 5:02:18 PM EDT
[#24]
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Tesla shares jump after hours to $340 on positive revenue https://electrek.co/2017/08/02/tesla-tsla-q2-2017-earnings/ Averaging 1,800 net new Model 3 orders every day Looks like the seekingalpha echochamber of Doom is going to have to wait.... Kharn |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 5:08:34 PM EDT
[#25]
Felrom told me Tesla's second quarter earnings would be so bad it would be obvious the company is falling apart.
Shares are now up nearly 7% after hours. Tesla shorts gonna get their peepee slapped. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 6:03:21 PM EDT
[#26]
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Tesla shares jump after hours to $340 on positive revenue https://electrek.co/2017/08/02/tesla-tsla-q2-2017-earnings/ Averaging 1,800 net new Model 3 orders every day Looks like the seekingalpha echochamber of Doom is going to have to wait.... They are supposed to have 500,000 orders already They are getting 1,800 new orders a day They are only building an average of less than 300 vehicles per calender day right now in a factory that was churning that out in a few hours in 2009 with almost 2,000 fewer employees. They need to multiply production rate by 450% and stop production of everything but the 3 just to meet the original 500,000 orders within 12 months of the first model 3 actually coming off the assembly line and do this with very little cash in hand. More power to them if they make this work but these are not good numbers. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 6:45:02 PM EDT
[#27]
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Felrom told me Tesla's second quarter earnings would be so bad it would be obvious the company is falling apart. Shares are now up nearly 7% after hours. Tesla shorts gonna get their peepee slapped yet again. Meanwhile everyone who bought shares a month ago is up around 12% (assuming the price holds at ~350 / share). |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:14:43 PM EDT
[#28]
The negative:
Burned $1.16B during the quarter, to end with about $3B on hand. Liabilities rose to almost $20B. That's debt. Remember, it has to be repaid, refinanced at ever higher rates, or discharged in bankruptcy. Guiding for $2B in capex in the 2H17. Automotive margins shrunk. Energy margins shrunk. Customer deposits declined overall. The positive: Sold $100M of government-mandated ZEV credits to profitable car companies. Model 3 getting 1800 deposits/day in the last week. If one day they get to the point where they could clear $5000 on every car they sell, they'd only need to sell 4M cars from that point to counter the debt they've built just to today. Everything is riding on how well they can sell a $44,000 car with cloth upholstery, manual mirrors, and manual seats. If you want power mirrors and seats, leather, a color other than black, and the same Level 2 autonomy as a Toyota Camry, it'll cost you $55,000. Mass market!! 
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:28:11 PM EDT
[#29]
This is hilarious.
They've got ~500,00 people lined up saying "here take my money" @ a minimum $35k and you guys are preaching gloom n doom. Imagine if Tesla had zero pre-orders. Holy you guys heads would explode. But it's the opposite case. How many people are signed up for the Leaf? How many are signed up for Bolt? Sure they are selling but where's the demand. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:29:08 PM EDT
[#30]
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Felrom told me Tesla's second quarter earnings would be so bad it would be obvious the company is falling apart. Shares are now up nearly 7% after hours. Tesla shorts gonna get their peepee slapped. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:31:11 PM EDT
[#31]
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This is hilarious. They've got ~500,00 people lined up saying "here take my money" @ a minimum $35k and you guys are preaching gloom n doom. Imagine if Tesla had zero pre-orders. Holy you guys heads would explode. But it's the opposite case. How many people are signed up for the Leaf? How many are signed up for Bolt? Sure they are selling but where's the demand. They lose money on every car sold. They will lose money on every model 3 sold, too. How does having a large order backlog help them? 
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:38:06 PM EDT
[#32]
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This is hilarious. They've got ~500,00 people lined up saying "here take my money" @ a minimum $35k and you guys are preaching gloom n doom. Imagine if Tesla had zero pre-orders. Holy you guys heads would explode. But it's the opposite case. How many people are signed up for the Leaf? How many are signed up for Bolt? Sure they are selling but where's the demand. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:41:30 PM EDT
[#33]
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And all the company needs to do now, is make the leap between 30 hand built units to a half million properly assembled, mass produced, roadworthy, assembly line cars. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:52:41 PM EDT
[#34]
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Would you agree that Tesla has built over 100,000 Model S cars? According to recent reports, they are sitting on 14K of them, so made, sure, sold, nope. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:55:38 PM EDT
[#35]
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According to recent reports, they are sitting on 14K of them, so made, sure, sold, nope. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 7:57:14 PM EDT
[#36]
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So we are in agreement that Tesla is an experienced manufacturer of electric only cars, great. They are the #1 company in the world in losing money on every car sold, and accumulating massive debt. There is no debate about it. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:06:43 PM EDT
[#37]
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So we are in agreement that Tesla is an experienced manufacturer of electric only cars, great. As I've always said, they face incredible challenges with new ones on the horizon and others growing every day. They have a poor record of execution, and this is a bad time to be trying to build up a car company. There's a narrow path for Tesla to long-term solvency, but it will require absolute perfect performance and a lot of luck. I'm betting they don't pull it off. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:09:44 PM EDT
[#38]
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The negative: Burned $1.16B during the quarter, to end with about $3B on hand. Liabilities rose to almost $20B. That's debt. Remember, it has to be repaid, refinanced at ever higher rates, or discharged in bankruptcy. Guiding for $2B in capex in the 2H17. Automotive margins shrunk. Energy margins shrunk. Customer deposits declined overall. The positive: Sold $100M of government-mandated ZEV credits to profitable car companies. Model 3 getting 1800 deposits/day in the last week. If one day they get to the point where they could clear $5000 on every car they sell, they'd only need to sell 4M cars from that point to counter the debt they've built just to today. Everything is riding on how well they can sell a $44,000 car with cloth upholstery, manual mirrors, and manual seats. If you want power mirrors and seats, leather, a color other than black, and the same Level 2 autonomy as a Toyota Camry, it'll cost you $55,000. Mass market!! Kharn |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:24:36 PM EDT
[#39]
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Would you agree that Tesla has built over 100,000 Model S cars? Do you realize Jeep makes about 20K Wranglers per month during the Spring and Summer? Such that for the last 5+ years they make 50-100)% more Wranglers per year than Tesla has in the last 5 years. (I picked Jeep because they also make a niche vehicle that is popular. If you want to compare to a luxury car company like BMW - well they make 6-9x the number of vehicles per year than Tesla ) So no I really wouldn't call them experienced at mass production or running an assembly line. They are experts at designing electric vehicles and running up the hype/marketing - but they have not show expertise in mass productions. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:24:52 PM EDT
[#40]
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This is hilarious. They've got ~500,00 people lined up saying "here take my money" @ a minimum $35k and you guys are preaching gloom n doom. Imagine if Tesla had zero pre-orders. Holy you guys heads would explode. But it's the opposite case. How many people are signed up for the Leaf? How many are signed up for Bolt? Sure they are selling but where's the demand. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:26:04 PM EDT
[#41]
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I would agree that they're experienced making electric cars. There's still a difference between making just short of 100k cars in the last year, and guiding that you'll be making cars at a rate of 600k/year just one year from now. Given their last-in-the-industry number of vehicle turns per year and the cost of the car, they'll need over $2B just to populate their supply chain with parts to ramp up production to that level. As I've always said, they face incredible challenges with new ones on the horizon and others growing every day. They have a poor record of execution, and this is a bad time to be trying to build up a car company. There's a narrow path for Tesla to long-term solvency, but it will require absolute perfect performance and a lot of luck. I'm betting they don't pull it off. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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So we are in agreement that Tesla is an experienced manufacturer of electric only cars, great. As I've always said, they face incredible challenges with new ones on the horizon and others growing every day. They have a poor record of execution, and this is a bad time to be trying to build up a car company. There's a narrow path for Tesla to long-term solvency, but it will require absolute perfect performance and a lot of luck. I'm betting they don't pull it off. 
Kharn |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:27:34 PM EDT
[#42]
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Would you agree that Tesla has built over 100,000 Model S cars? |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:30:06 PM EDT
[#43]
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So in 5 years of production they made 100K Model S (20K per year production rate). Do you realize Jeep makes about 20K Wranglers per month during the Spring and Summer? Such that for the last 5+ years they make 50-100)% more Wranglers per year than Tesla has in the last 5 years. (I picked Jeep because they also make a niche vehicle that is popular. If you want to compare to a luxury car company like BMW - well they make 6-9x the number of vehicles per year than Tesla ) So no I really wouldn't call them experienced at mass production or running an assembly line. They are experts at designing electric vehicles and running up the hype/marketing - but they have not show expertise in mass productions. Quote HistoryQuoted:
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Would you agree that Tesla has built over 100,000 Model S cars? Do you realize Jeep makes about 20K Wranglers per month during the Spring and Summer? Such that for the last 5+ years they make 50-100)% more Wranglers per year than Tesla has in the last 5 years. (I picked Jeep because they also make a niche vehicle that is popular. If you want to compare to a luxury car company like BMW - well they make 6-9x the number of vehicles per year than Tesla ) So no I really wouldn't call them experienced at mass production or running an assembly line. They are experts at designing electric vehicles and running up the hype/marketing - but they have not show expertise in mass productions. Kharn |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:30:29 PM EDT
[#44]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmmmm, I remember United Launch Alliance being super confident with similar claims about Musk until... http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2015/12/22/67886861_h41558122_custom-a8f82ee1959f66bcdc3dfe0cf1bf98f4b1ea121d-s900-c85.jpg Kharn The car is a consumer item and the economic model for success is a bit different. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:32:35 PM EDT
[#45]
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But only ~15k 6 and 7 series BMWs per year, the price competitors to the S and X. Kharn Right now Tesla has 1 model (hopefully 2 soon) and their production numbers with just 1 vehicle being built aren't there - not even in the ballpark. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:32:43 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Hmmmm, I remember United Launch Alliance being super confident with similar claims about Musk until... http://media.npr.org/assets/img/2015/12/22/67886861_h41558122_custom-a8f82ee1959f66bcdc3dfe0cf1bf98f4b1ea121d-s900-c85.jpg Kharn People like to confuse the man with the company. Tesla is a gigantic pile of fail, from the powerwall to the solar roof to the cars. It will not succeed. SpaceX is a whole different animal. I have full confidence in its continued success. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:35:40 PM EDT
[#47]
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Irrelevant. Its how many cars can the company put out. They are putting out several different models and have huge numbers going out. Right now Tesla has 1 model (hopefully 2 soon) and their production numbers with just 1 vehicle being built aren't there - not even in the ballpark. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:37:13 PM EDT
[#48]
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Tesla has two models if you don't include the Model 3 The Model X has been a turd too, lots of problems with the stupid gullwing doors. Not surprisingly. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:38:30 PM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
The Model X has been a turd too, lots of problems with the stupid gullwing doors. Not surprisingly. |
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Posted: 8/2/2017 8:43:08 PM EDT
[#50]
Quote HistoryQuoted:
Tesla has two models if you don't include the Model 3 Still rookie numbers. |
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