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Posted: 9/16/2020 2:32:57 PM EDT
Some spyshots have been caught of Tesla's new battery.
 https://electrek.co/2020/09/16/tesla-battery-cell-in-house-roadrunner-first-look/ Tesla's "Roadrunner" tabless battery cell that's supposed to last 1 million miles, have greater energy density, and lower waste heat. Expected to be used in Roadster, Cybertruck, and Plaid Model-S. Aiming for <$75/kwh cost. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 2:34:25 PM EDT
[#1]
Its pretty revolutionary if what I am reading is true.
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Posted: 9/16/2020 2:36:31 PM EDT
[#2]
If it comes in a deep cycle and/or starting/cranking format, I'd be interested. Looking for new batteries for my boat.
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Posted: 9/16/2020 2:39:37 PM EDT
[#3]
Bet that would make a hell of a fire.
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Posted: 9/16/2020 2:40:33 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bet that would make a hell of a fire. So does the gasoline in a car. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 2:40:42 PM EDT
[#5]
So 40mm or so by 80mm?
More than double the diameter of an 21700 by the looks of it so a lot more volume. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 2:47:21 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So 40mm or so by 80mm? More than double the diameter of an 21700 by the looks of it so a lot more volume. Tabless design with much lower resistance allows them to roll a much larger cell. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 2:51:03 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So does the gasoline in a car. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bet that would make a hell of a fire. So does the gasoline in a car. Whoa guys, are you guys implying storing energy is dangerous? |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 2:53:46 PM EDT
[#8]
Quoted: Tabless design with much lower resistance allows them to roll a much larger cell. So compared to what they’re running now what’s the performance gain? |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 2:56:00 PM EDT
[#9]
40mm high density lithium battery.
40mm grenade launcher. May bring a new meaning to canned heat. 
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Posted: 9/16/2020 2:56:54 PM EDT
[#10]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So does the gasoline in a car. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bet that would make a hell of a fire. So does the gasoline in a car. Gasoline doesn't thermal runaway, self-oxidize, or get very angry and mean when it comes into contact with H2O |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 2:57:43 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So compared to what they’re running now what’s the performance gain? Right now, just "better"  No hard numbers yet.They are supposed to unveil it as part of a "Battery day" in a week or so. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 3:00:06 PM EDT
[#12]
9/22 is battery day.
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Posted: 9/16/2020 3:06:12 PM EDT
[#13]
Is there any IP on this or is it basically just a big, tab-less 18650 that everyone else can make?
 |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 3:07:15 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Is there any IP on this or is it basically just a big, tab-less 18650 that everyone else can make? https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/7727/production/_103330503_musk3.jpg "Earlier this year, Tesla applied for a patent a new battery cell with a tabless electrode that Elon Musk hyped as “way more important than it sounds.”" 
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Posted: 9/16/2020 3:08:51 PM EDT
[#15]
how long until someone puts one in a flashlight?
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Posted: 9/16/2020 3:18:49 PM EDT
[#16]
Quote HistoryQuoted: how long until someone puts one in a fleshlight? |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 3:23:32 PM EDT
[#17]
Just touch the trigger, the beam comes on and you put the red dot where you want the bullet to go. You can't miss. Anything else? The Terminator : Phased plasma rifle in the 40-watt range.
Soon... 
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Posted: 9/16/2020 3:25:24 PM EDT
[#18]
BIG BATTERIES MAKE BIG POWER
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Posted: 9/16/2020 3:26:55 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BIG BATTERIES MAKE BIG POWER There's no replacement for... big cells? I like big cells and I cannot lie, you other brothers can't deny |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 3:59:05 PM EDT
[#20]
Every "revolutionary" battery advancement in my lifetime has been meh. They've been promising "breakthroughs" that will enable electric vehicles to not be a joke for everyday use since I was first old enough to drive.
I'll get excited when REAL products hit the shelves for consumer use that are significantly better than current lithium batteries. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 3:59:44 PM EDT
[#21]
That's just a 22uF motor starting capacitor for an old Fedders window unit.
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Posted: 9/16/2020 4:14:09 PM EDT
[#22]
$75/kwh hour cost? What?
the grid is only $0.12 that doesn't seem right |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 4:21:50 PM EDT
[#23]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $75/kwh hour cost? What? the grid is only $0.12 that doesn't seem right The cost of the battery to store the power. So a 100 wh battery would be 75*100 = $7500. That's a significant drop in cost of batteries and either the cars or profit for the manufacturer. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 4:40:34 PM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The cost of the battery to store the power. So a 100 wh battery would be 75*100 = $7500. That's a significant drop in cost of batteries and either the cars or profit for the manufacturer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: $75/kwh hour cost? What? the grid is only $0.12 that doesn't seem right The cost of the battery to store the power. So a 100 wh battery would be 75*100 = $7500. That's a significant drop in cost of batteries and either the cars or profit for the manufacturer. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 4:43:48 PM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Every "revolutionary" battery advancement in my lifetime has been meh. They've been promising "breakthroughs" that will enable electric vehicles to not be a joke for everyday use since I was first old enough to drive. I'll get excited when REAL products hit the shelves for consumer use that are significantly better than current lithium batteries. I dunno. Looking at cordless tools and RC cars/aircraft, it seems like battery tech has advanced pretty nicely over the last 25 years or so. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 4:48:34 PM EDT
[#26]
Right now the tesla powerwall is 13.5Kwh and cost about 1k per kwh. 100ah 12v lipos for solar systems start at about $750. So $75 is a big deal.
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Posted: 9/16/2020 4:49:08 PM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gasoline doesn't thermal runaway, self-oxidize, or get very angry and mean when it comes into contact with H2O Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Bet that would make a hell of a fire. So does the gasoline in a car. Gasoline doesn't thermal runaway, self-oxidize, or get very angry and mean when it comes into contact with H2O It also doesn't electrocute you. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 4:52:34 PM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I guess that's a way to compare batteries, but how many times it can be charged is really the important factor. Does that figure distinguish between once use batteries and a million cycle battery? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: $75/kwh hour cost? What? the grid is only $0.12 that doesn't seem right The cost of the battery to store the power. So a 100 wh battery would be 75*100 = $7500. That's a significant drop in cost of batteries and either the cars or profit for the manufacturer. Rumors say it’s expected to last about 3000-4000 charge cycles before significant degradation, most lithium batteries don’t go beyond 500 before significant degradation. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 4:57:34 PM EDT
[#29]
Interesting. I like the idea of it.
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Posted: 9/16/2020 5:01:43 PM EDT
[#30]
Considering home solar lithium storage is about $750 per kwh... This is a 10 fold decrease in price. It will be fucking HUGE for everything.
Home solar panels are closing in on 500wh per panel (at $0.50 wh now too.) |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 5:13:12 PM EDT
[#31]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Rumors say it’s expected to last about 3000-4000 charge cycles before significant degradation, most lithium batteries don’t go beyond 500 before significant degradation. I think the 500 cycles number is based on maximum continuous discharge until they're dead. So the battery is working the hardest it can and running it down past where you would in most applications. I have 18650 cells that have thousands of cycles |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 5:16:21 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: That's just a 22uF motor starting capacitor for an old Fedders window unit.  . |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 5:21:34 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Considering home solar lithium storage is about $750 per kwh... This is a 10 fold decrease in price. It will be fucking HUGE for everything. Home solar panels are closing in on 500wh per panel (at $0.50 wh now too.) What I'm seeing (I've owned an electric car and a couple hybrids) is that the cost per kWh is production cost, not end-consumer cost. So you and I won't be able to go to ye olde battery store and buy a 1kWh battery pack for $75. It'll probably still cost us hundreds. In 2017, I bought a camper and really would have loved to have a lithium battery for it. $1k for a 100aH 12V equivalent. In 2020? $1k. Prices on consumer units haven't gone down much at all. If car manufacturers can start baking in (or baking out) that reduction in cost to the sticker price, then we'll see movement. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 5:24:12 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: "Earlier this year, Tesla applied for a patent a new battery cell with a tabless electrode that Elon Musk hyped as "way more important than it sounds."" https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/09/Screen-Shot-2020-05-07-at-4.04.03-PM-e1588893154932.jpg?strip=info&w=1258 Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Is there any IP on this or is it basically just a big, tab-less 18650 that everyone else can make? https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/7727/production/_103330503_musk3.jpg "Earlier this year, Tesla applied for a patent a new battery cell with a tabless electrode that Elon Musk hyped as "way more important than it sounds."" https://electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/09/Screen-Shot-2020-05-07-at-4.04.03-PM-e1588893154932.jpg?strip=info&w=1258 |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 5:26:08 PM EDT
[#35]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So does the gasoline in a car. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bet that would make a hell of a fire. So does the gasoline in a car. But does it cause cancer in the state of California? We'll just build the enviornmental cleanup cost into your car insurance premiums. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 5:30:50 PM EDT
[#36]
Should I buy a shitload of TSLA stocks now?
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Posted: 9/16/2020 5:37:40 PM EDT
[#37]
Quote HistoryQuoted: There's no replacement for... big cells? I like big cells and I cannot lie, you other brothers can't deny BIG CELLS REQUIRE BIG COAL! |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 5:39:49 PM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: But does it cause cancer in the state of California? We'll just build the enviornmental cleanup cost into your car insurance premiums. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Bet that would make a hell of a fire. So does the gasoline in a car. But does it cause cancer in the state of California? We'll just build the enviornmental cleanup cost into your car insurance premiums. Apperently, everything causes cancer in California. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 5:44:24 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: It also doesn't electrocute you. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Quoted: Bet that would make a hell of a fire. So does the gasoline in a car. Gasoline doesn't thermal runaway, self-oxidize, or get very angry and mean when it comes into contact with H2O It also doesn't electrocute you. True but thermal runaway of lithium/cobalt or magnesium batteries is really scary shit. Lithium Iron phosphate doesn't have the issue or any of the other major safety problems. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 5:48:14 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I think the 500 cycles number is based on maximum continuous discharge until they're dead. So the battery is working the hardest it can and running it down past where you would in most applications. I have 18650 cells that have thousands of cycles Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Rumors say it’s expected to last about 3000-4000 charge cycles before significant degradation, most lithium batteries don’t go beyond 500 before significant degradation. I think the 500 cycles number is based on maximum continuous discharge until they're dead. So the battery is working the hardest it can and running it down past where you would in most applications. I have 18650 cells that have thousands of cycles Yes those are complete charge/discharge cycles, everyone who’s honest goes by complete cycles, because anything else is arbitrary, and easier to defraud, (if you discharge you cells less than your competitors, your battery will out perform them) And yes if you baby a cell and don’t deplete it entirely every time it will last much longer, if tesla isn’t bsing us, then a babied battery could go for a LONG time. there are Tesla’s with original batteries in them with over 600,000 miles on them now, but as you said, they’ve been babied to some degree. Most tend to last between 300,000 to 500,000 miles depending upon use/abuse, it should be noted that the upper number on that average is still rising. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 5:54:42 PM EDT
[#41]
I always like new things. I have been holding off on a battery pack for a while now. $1000 vs $7500 would Be an enormous game changer not just for off the grid living but also for maintenance of the power grid itself. Think about all the homes charging the batteries at night where there is less Voltaic draw and then discharging during the day to power the air conditioning lights and computers that are otherwise dormant at night.
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Posted: 9/16/2020 5:54:54 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: What I'm seeing (I've owned an electric car and a couple hybrids) is that the cost per kWh is production cost, not end-consumer cost. So you and I won't be able to go to ye olde battery store and buy a 1kWh battery pack for $75. It'll probably still cost us hundreds. In 2017, I bought a camper and really would have loved to have a lithium battery for it. $1k for a 100aH 12V equivalent. In 2020? $1k. Prices on consumer units haven't gone down much at all. If car manufacturers can start baking in (or baking out) that reduction in cost to the sticker price, then we'll see movement. If it still costs hundreds per kWh on the consumer side - there's still a 50%+ drop in price possible versus current tech batteries. That's tremendous. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 6:01:25 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: The cost of the battery to store the power. So a 100 wh battery would be 75*100 = $7500. That's a significant drop in cost of batteries and either the cars or profit for the manufacturer. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: $75/kwh hour cost? What? the grid is only $0.12 that doesn't seem right The cost of the battery to store the power. So a 100 wh battery would be 75*100 = $7500. That's a significant drop in cost of batteries and either the cars or profit for the manufacturer. Missed it a little 100wh battery would be $7.50 A golf cart battery, fairly inexpensive lead deep cycle, is ~$100 per kWh of storage So they are trying to make something cheaper per kWh, which is presumably much, much lighter, smaller and has a much higher charge and discharge rate It’s a very big deal if they can do it I suspect the technology is still a number of years away |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 6:09:18 PM EDT
[#44]
Something tells me that my new Vape is going to last through the next Ice Age.
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Posted: 9/16/2020 6:16:56 PM EDT
[#45]
This would reduce the vehicle manufacturing costs by about 20%.
You could be looking at a sub $30k Model 3 with this battery cell. |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 6:17:53 PM EDT
[#46]
When they go.. will it be high order or low order?
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Posted: 9/16/2020 6:18:02 PM EDT
[#47]
Quote HistoryQuoted: BIG BATTERIES MAKE BIG POWER BIG BATTERY ENERGY |
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Posted: 9/16/2020 6:21:25 PM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: When they go.. will it be high order or low order? Sounds like a test folks can do...later.
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Posted: 9/16/2020 6:22:47 PM EDT
[#49]
Interesting
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Posted: 9/16/2020 6:33:48 PM EDT
[#50]
Yep, that battery would be a big deal.
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