User Panel
User Panel
User Panel
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 6:37:03 PM EDT
[#1]
It wasn't that long ago when all drills, skillsaws and phones had cords attached to them-25 years ago the technology did not exist. The smartphone is only possible because of battery technology. A corded smartphone-not near as useful. Now Elon Musk says he is gonna revolutionize batteries. On battery day. It does sound kinda hokey, However his company just beat out Boeing. They've already docked with the space station. And returned. And Boeing says they another year off. So I'm all ears to what he has to say.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 6:41:20 PM EDT
[#2]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bet that would make a hell of a fire. I think its' nice Acme is getting more business. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 7:06:50 PM EDT
[#3]
lead acid batteries can not be as deeply discharged as lipo's without severely hurting their life span iirc. When I was investigating batteries for my camper, iirc it was almost a 2:1 difference. Add to that the lipo is smaller and lighter.
The real issue for battery consumers will be the secondary market. Power density is very important for cars. As the batteries age, eventually they will need to be replaced so that the cars range can be maintained. Due to recycling cost - it is very probable that the solar market will try to gobble these batteries up as they will probably have 75% of their capacity still remaining. Power density in solar is not nearly as critical, just add a few more. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 7:09:38 PM EDT
[#4]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lead acid batteries can not be as deeply discharged as lipo's without severely hurting their life span iirc. When I was investigating batteries for my camper, iirc it was almost a 2:1 difference. Add to that the lipo is smaller and lighter. The real issue for battery consumers will be the secondary market. Power density is very important for cars. As the batteries age, eventually they will need to be replaced so that the cars range can be maintained. Due to recycling cost - it is very probable that the solar market will try to gobble these batteries up as they will probably have 75% of their capacity still remaining. Power density in solar is not nearly as critical, just add a few more. Non-vehicle, solar based recharging, would be my interest in them. Primarily. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 7:14:44 PM EDT
[#5]
Who cares about battery life? What they need to do is make a quick change standard, and charge a rental fee. Pull into a station, spent batt is removed, fresh batt installed, pay the fee and drive on.
if ANYONE is in a position to do this it is Tesla/Musk. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 7:22:43 PM EDT
[#6]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who cares about battery life? What they need to do is make a quick change standard, and charge a rental fee. Pull into a station, spent batt is removed, fresh batt installed, pay the fee and drive on. if ANYONE is in a position to do this it is Tesla/Musk. They already thought of that a long time ago. I remember Tesla having a youtube video about it showing it taking less time to change the battery out than filling a car up with gas. You had 2 options you fast charge or pay a fee $25-30 to have your battery changed out. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 7:23:51 PM EDT
[#7]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So does the gasoline in a car. not like a battery fire. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 7:24:38 PM EDT
[#8]
I'm ready for affordable lithium batteries in cars. Imagine having a car battery that would last over 10 years.
My battery goes dead every 2 years like clockwork. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 7:26:13 PM EDT
[#9]
Neat. . To bad the Chinese will copy it and benefit from the technology.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 7:36:48 PM EDT
[#10]
UNtil IT KaN tAKe mY fUll HOrsetRAILer 4oo MIleZ tHEN Fil uP In 15 MINutES iLl sTIcK To mY DieSEL!!!
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 7:41:06 PM EDT
[#11]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm ready for affordable lithium batteries in cars. Imagine having a car battery that would last over 10 years. My battery goes dead every 2 years like clockwork. That's quite common with hybrids. Most are warranted for 100k miles and 8 years. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 7:42:01 PM EDT
[#12]
Quote HistoryQuoted: $75/kwh hour cost? What? the grid is only $0.12 that doesn't seem right Battery capacity. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 8:23:58 PM EDT
[#13]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who cares about battery life? What they need to do is make a quick change standard, and charge a rental fee. Pull into a station, spent batt is removed, fresh batt installed, pay the fee and drive on. if ANYONE is in a position to do this it is Tesla/Musk. I care about battery life, Electric vehicles are one part Home energy storage is another. Your quick change setup is useless if I want to use the battery for home storage. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 8:25:41 PM EDT
[#14]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I care about battery life, Electric vehicles are one part Home energy storage is another. Your quick change setup is useless if I want to use the battery for home storage. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Who cares about battery life? What they need to do is make a quick change standard, and charge a rental fee. Pull into a station, spent batt is removed, fresh batt installed, pay the fee and drive on. if ANYONE is in a position to do this it is Tesla/Musk. I care about battery life, Electric vehicles are one part Home energy storage is another. Your quick change setup is useless if I want to use the battery for home storage. Well sure, two totally different use cases |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 8:27:11 PM EDT
[#15]
Quoted: Some spyshots have been caught of Tesla's new battery. https://i0.wp.com/electrek.co/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2020/09/Tesla-Battery-2.jpg?strip=info&w=1500&ssl=1 https://electrek.co/2020/09/16/tesla-battery-cell-in-house-roadrunner-first-look/ Tesla's "Roadrunner" tabless battery cell that's supposed to last 1 million miles, have greater energy density, and lower waste heat. Expected to be used in Roadster, Cybertruck, and Plaid Model-S. Aiming for <$75/kwh cost. Skippy! |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 8:29:10 PM EDT
[#16]
This should drive stock price up enough to make some money.
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 8:50:02 PM EDT
[#17]
Quote HistoryQuoted: lead acid batteries can not be as deeply discharged as lipo's without severely hurting their life span iirc. When I was investigating batteries for my camper, iirc it was almost a 2:1 difference. Add to that the lipo is smaller and lighter. The real issue for battery consumers will be the secondary market. Power density is very important for cars. As the batteries age, eventually they will need to be replaced so that the cars range can be maintained. Due to recycling cost - it is very probable that the solar market will try to gobble these batteries up as they will probably have 75% of their capacity still remaining. Power density in solar is not nearly as critical, just add a few more. Tesla batteries run at some retarded voltage 27V? I looked into used batteries and the juice wasn’t worth squeeze to me. Now if Tesla could figure out a way to utilize them into a powerwall type portable or fixed unit for RV or general use it would be a license to print money. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 9:15:05 PM EDT
[#18]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Missed it a little  100wh battery would be $7.50 A golf cart battery, fairly inexpensive lead deep cycle, is ~$100 per kWh of storage So they are trying to make something cheaper per kWh, which is presumably much, much lighter, smaller and has a much higher charge and discharge rate It’s a very big deal if they can do it I suspect the technology is still a number of years away On that battery shown above since it's about 4x this size of a 2170 that holds ~17wh probably holds 80+ wh by itself. At $75/KWh it would mean each cell costs ~$6 to make. Here are the other batteries taken apart:  |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/16/2020 9:21:14 PM EDT
[#19]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tesla batteries run at some retarded voltage 27V? I looked into used batteries and the juice wasn’t worth squeeze to me. Now if Tesla could figure out a way to utilize them into a powerwall type portable or fixed unit for RV or general use it would be a license to print money. The cells themselves are ~3.6v |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 8:25:21 AM EDT
[#20]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who cares about battery life? What they need to do is make a quick change standard, and charge a rental fee. Pull into a station, spent batt is removed, fresh batt installed, pay the fee and drive on. if ANYONE is in a position to do this it is Tesla/Musk. Won’t work, batteries can be abused, damaged and even at a million miles+ capability it still has a limited lifespan. That makes quick swapping for a predictable small fee impossible, never mind the batteries are actively cooled so it’d be more like swapping out radiators than removing and inserting a D-cell. But fear not, its likely they’ve improved charging time to some degree since thermal capacity is one of the limiting factors for rapid charging and tesla leaks have Indicated much improved thermal capacity in their new cell design. Of course this is providing the leaks are accurate, and tesla isn’t BSing us. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 8:41:01 AM EDT
[#21]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Who cares about battery life? What they need to do is make a quick change standard, and charge a rental fee. Pull into a station, spent batt is removed, fresh batt installed, pay the fee and drive on. if ANYONE is in a position to do this it is Tesla/Musk. Tesla did exactly that back in 2015. Built one swapping station, a few Model S with the capability, pocketed the govt subsidies, and closed it down. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 8:50:05 AM EDT
[#22]
So what does tabless mean in battery-speak?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 8:50:30 AM EDT
[#23]
Pretty interesting:
https://www.teslarati.com/tesla-roadrunner-battery-day-leak-analysis-video/
This design looks potentially amazing tbh. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 8:51:08 AM EDT
[#24]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gasoline doesn't thermal runaway, self-oxidize, or get very angry and mean when it comes into contact with H2O it can be poured into glass containers and turned into a weapon. It is a liquid, so it can rapidly spread out and bring fire with it. It can soak into porous items after little contact. It has decent adhesion is to non porous items and stepping in a film of it can be enough to provide Karma to Footloose AnTeaFa's. People filling gas cans at gas stations become video stars whEn the fire starts. When a car gets in a wreck, a small drip coming into contact with the exhaust leads to fire. Diesel is a much safer fuel than gasoline. Yet, we make gasoline powered minivans. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 9:09:35 AM EDT
[#25]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So what does tabless mean in battery-speak? All of those little battery cells contains rolled up anodes and cathodes (look at the pics I posted earlier in the thread) with tabs on the ends for the current to flow through. Resistance (ie waste heat generation) ends up being a function of how long these windings are, thus limiting cell size. With a tabless design, the current flows top to bottom, and the resistance ends up being a fuction of how wide the winding is instead of how long. Thus you can make the cells much larger while simultaneously massively reducing waste heat. There is also huge gains to be made in simplification of manufacture on the pack level as well. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 10:30:20 AM EDT
[#26]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Gasoline is vaporous and even explosive. it can be poured into glass containers and turned into a weapon. It is a liquid, so it can rapidly spread out and bring fire with it. It can soak into porous items after little contact. It has decent adhesion is to non porous items and stepping in a film of it can be enough to provide Karma to Footloose AnTeaFa's. People filling gas cans at gas stations become video stars whEn the fire starts. When a car gets in a wreck, a small drip coming into contact with the exhaust leads to fire. Diesel is a much safer fuel than gasoline. Yet, we make gasoline powered minivans. Good point, the difference are pretty close to diesel and gasoline, it is indeed pretty moot. Also, any wreck that damages the battery enough to cause a run away fire in a lithium battery, is also likely to total the vehicle. Like I said, The differences really are moot. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 10:53:03 AM EDT
[#27]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm ready for affordable lithium batteries in cars. Imagine having a car battery that would last over 10 years. My battery goes dead every 2 years like clockwork. How? Is it the heat? I've only replaced one battery in all my vehicles. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 11:22:21 AM EDT
[#28]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I'm ready for affordable lithium batteries in cars. Imagine having a car battery that would last over 10 years. My battery goes dead every 2 years like clockwork. If you're talking about a regular 12v accessory battery, lithium isn't going to replace lead acid, and it's not the cost. Starting needs a lot of current for a short time, sometimes at very cold or hot temps. Lead acid is a champ at this. It doesn't handle deep discharges well but otherwise is extremely tolerant of abuse. The simple alternator we use can have wild swings in voltage that lead acid will happily soak up. Lithium would need a more complex regulator. It sounds weird, but lead batteries are more environmentally friendly too because the lead is nearly 100% recycled. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 11:34:54 AM EDT
[#29]
Laughs in Porsche Taycan.
Elon needs to stick to space stuff and leave cars to the professionals |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 12:42:28 PM EDT
[#30]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Laughs in Porsche Taycan. Elon needs to stick to space stuff and leave cars to the professionals What’s the range of the taycan in optimal conditions? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 12:43:35 PM EDT
[#31]
I think Battery day is the 22nd
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 2:45:35 PM EDT
[#32]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Laughs in Porsche Taycan. Elon needs to stick to space stuff and leave cars to the professionals Taycan: Half the range for twice the price! |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 5:27:30 PM EDT
[#33]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How? Is it the heat? I've only replaced one battery in all my vehicles. Heat is certainly a possibility. Nissan 300Z's were notorious for killing batteries in about a year, due to the cramped engine compartment and battery location just a few inches away from the engine exhaust manifold. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 5:31:21 PM EDT
[#34]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Whoa guys, are you guys implying storing energy is dangerous? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: Bet that would make a hell of a fire. So does the gasoline in a car. Whoa guys, are you guys implying storing energy is dangerous? |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 5:32:58 PM EDT
[#35]
Roadrunner is already a brand name of automotive batteries from Fleet Farm
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/17/2020 5:34:48 PM EDT
[#36]
How long until we take over Mexico because of lithium?
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2020 11:48:33 AM EDT
[#37]
Good video of the technologies that's likely in this battery:
 Tesla Battery Day Preview: What to Expect Ahead of Tesla’s Battery Day |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2020 11:56:22 AM EDT
[#38]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Bet that would make a hell of a fire. Well worth it for everything else this battery can be capable of doing. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2020 12:07:02 PM EDT
[#39]
Quote HistoryQuoted: How long until we take over Mexico because of lithium? Australia is the world's largest supplier of Lithium |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/18/2020 12:24:10 PM EDT
[#40]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Well worth it for everything else this battery can be capable of doing. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bet that would make a hell of a fire. Well worth it for everything else this battery can be capable of doing. I can see where 1 or 2 of those batteries in a flashlight could be really useful..
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/19/2020 8:57:55 AM EDT
[#41]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Australia is the world's largest supplier of Lithium Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: How long until we take over Mexico because of lithium? Australia is the world's largest supplier of Lithium We need to liberate these poor, oppressed people who have been denied their most basic human rights, like being able to own an AR15. 
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/19/2020 6:15:32 PM EDT
[#42]
Quote HistoryQuoted: We need to liberate these poor, oppressed people who have been denied their most basic human rights, like being able to own an AR15. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Quoted: How long until we take over Mexico because of lithium? Australia is the world's largest supplier of Lithium We need to liberate these poor, oppressed people who have been denied their most basic human rights, like being able to own an AR15. China is well on their way to moving into Australia from what I hear so probably no AR's any time soon. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/19/2020 6:26:06 PM EDT
[#43]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Should I buy a shitload of TSLA stocks now? Like any other wise investor...follow your heart... |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/19/2020 6:32:33 PM EDT
[#44]
Jeez back in maybe 2009/2010 I was telling my dad about Tesla and how their goal was to develop new battery tech.
They never did it and they still frickin took off like crazy (which I still don't fully understand). If they actually figure out a better battery who the hell knows where their stock could go. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/19/2020 6:35:05 PM EDT
[#45]
Quote HistoryQuoted: So does the gasoline in a car. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Bet that would make a hell of a fire. So does the gasoline in a car. I store LIPOs in fireproof bags in a flammable cabinet. Just sayin |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/20/2020 11:58:42 PM EDT
[#46]
Quote HistoryQuoted: I store gasoline in plastic jugs in my garage. I store LIPOs in fireproof bags in a flammable cabinet. Just sayin Why would you store them in a flammable cabinet?  
|
|
|
|
Posted: 9/23/2020 1:21:44 AM EDT
[#47]
 Failed To Load Title New battery is 46mm x 80mm Also talking about a $25,000 car eventually and showed off a sports car that gets 520 miles per charge. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/23/2020 1:31:24 AM EDT
[#48]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Why would you store them in a flammable cabinet? Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: I store gasoline in plastic jugs in my garage. I store LIPOs in fireproof bags in a flammable cabinet. Just sayin Why would you store them in a flammable cabinet? Because that's what they're called https://www.grainger.com/mobile/product/CONDOR-Flammable-Cabinet-WP7299955/_/N-18md?breadcrumbCatId=4593&fromPidp=true&picUrl=//static.grainger.com/rp/s/is/image/Grainger/45AE90_AS01?$smthumb$webparentimage$  |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/23/2020 2:16:29 AM EDT
[#49]
Quote HistoryQuoted: Tesla did exactly that back in 2015. Built one swapping station, a few Model S with the capability, pocketed the govt subsidies, and closed it down. Quote HistoryQuoted: Quoted: Who cares about battery life? What they need to do is make a quick change standard, and charge a rental fee. Pull into a station, spent batt is removed, fresh batt installed, pay the fee and drive on. if ANYONE is in a position to do this it is Tesla/Musk. Tesla did exactly that back in 2015. Built one swapping station, a few Model S with the capability, pocketed the govt subsidies, and closed it down. I am working on a true solution. I call it "Project Hummingbird." When we get the product to market the paradigm shift will be realized. Just as the everyday hassles of horsemanship as a primary mode of transportation were exposed around 110 years ago. Time consuming daily duties like tack and saddle, feeding, brushing, watering, shoeing etc. were soon a thing of the past. The next era is finally upon us. |
|
|
|
Posted: 9/23/2020 2:24:11 AM EDT
[#50]
That could run your heart for fifty lifetimes!
|
|
|
Win a FREE Membership!
Sign up for the ARFCOM weekly newsletter and be entered to win a free ARFCOM membership. One new winner* is announced every week!
You will receive an email every Friday morning featuring the latest chatter from the hottest topics, breaking news surrounding legislation, as well as exclusive deals only available to ARFCOM email subscribers.
AR15.COM is the world's largest firearm community and is a gathering place for firearm enthusiasts of all types.
From hunters and military members, to competition shooters and general firearm enthusiasts, we welcome anyone who values and respects the way of the firearm.
Subscribe to our monthly Newsletter to receive firearm news, product discounts from your favorite Industry Partners, and more.
Copyright © 1996-2024 AR15.COM LLC. All Rights Reserved.
Any use of this content without express written consent is prohibited.
AR15.Com reserves the right to overwrite or replace any affiliate, commercial, or monetizable links, posted by users, with our own.
