I can use a DIAS as a bottle opener, wall hanger, key fob, etc multiple legal uses.

Which just shows the absurdity of the whole thing.  That piece of metal is a machine gun.  

Agencies cannot use Chevron to establish or alter criminal law... so none of the aft's actions fly.  

And their two proposed rules on receivers and braces are shit-canned, thanks to this limitation of chevron.  They would instantly turn legal behavior and possession into a crime, which chevron cannot do,

Don't know.  Not a lawyer.  Logic says no.  The way the ATF interprets law, I would say assume THEY consider it illegal.

thats my point.  However that may or may not be how the ATF enforces the law

Didn't the courts find "Taxing a right" as unconstitutional?  IIRC that had to do with Poll Taxes... which election polling is not nearly as specific as the 2nd Amendment...
Just sayin.

If you go back far enough up the supply chain, would it technically be work in process when my material was laid out at the foundry?  When it was being melted?  When it was being recycled from it’s previous life as another object?  When they mined the alloy out of the ground?

Technically this is a first amendment issue because they drew artwork on a medium.

It's not me you'll need to convince ......

Most people, when presented with a picture of a duck, will identify it as a duck

You could argue all day long that an HK conversion sear is nothing but a letter opener, but you'll be doing it as the "defendant"

This is what I don't understand. I know he stated to make a decent amount of cash from his youtube channel and besides poking the atf I didn't take him as a complete idiot to be that stupid.  I would assume he knows he can get audited anytime so they could find out about anything that was in an account.  I know you don't play around with the irs especially if you own a profitable business.


I don't agree with the arrest and hope he can beat the case but he was asking for it by constantly poking and pushing. I'm not saying you shouldn't be able to but the process of the trial alone will be a huge burden even with the support he'll get.  


I can go to the ghetto with a Rolex while counting a wad of cash which is completely legal but I might not like what happens.


Wish him luck and glad he isn't a normal guy who would have zero chance here.

Agreed. But then why is it that some folks read "SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED" and then immediately tie themselves in knots trying to deny the plain as a duck meaning.

Answer: Because they don't like what it means. They are actively AGAINST the plain meaning for those 4 little words. Everyone arguing the minutia of the law or arbitrary unConstitutional statues put out by the criminals in the BATFE are all missing that plain as a fucking duck meaning.

Enough is enough.

“Whenever the legislators endeavor to take away and destroy the property of the people, or to reduce them to slavery under arbitrary power, they put themselves into a state of war with the people, who are thereupon absolved from any further obedience.” ~ John Locke (1690)

Sometimes it's good to have a cash stash so after the gov'ment seizes everything else you can hire a lawyer and post bail.  Under $10k is not supposed to be reported but undoubtedly a warrant was issued for the banks to provide all of his records.


On a subject mentioned by others, if I just happened to scan page 3 of Chapter 10 from "The Complete AR-15/M16 Sourcebook" by Duncan Long could I be charged with intent?  If I printed copies and sold them with a piece of sheet metal, a file and a drill bit am I guilty of selling machine guns?  Maybe it depends on how far they are willing to stretch the meaning of "readily converted."   There is also the copyright infringement they would throw in.  Is a photo of an M16 as your computer background violating some law in their mind?

Bottom line, this is no more than persecution under the color of law.  The courts should order the government to pay Matt several million dollars, taken directly from the budget of whatever section of the BATFE goes after folks like Hoover (there's some irony for you) and Rare Breed.

I just realized I have an unregistered suppressor... well, I mean I have a mag light, a set of taps, a box of freeze plugs, and saw a video about converting  a mag light into a suppressor. Is it time to turn myself in for constructive possession or am I in the clear as long as I leave the batteries in?

Okay...

Show people a picture of a DIAS, and ask them to identify it.

How many do you think will respond with "machine gun"?

See other thread about the rules likely being published Monday in the federal register.

No reason those should be illegal…if someone chooses to do something illegal with the item that is on them.  Selling an item that MAY be used illegally should never be a problem. Once that door is opened every gun or knife sold is a potential murder….your in pre-crime world now.

Boot the BATFE!

OK I understand he was trying to get cash out without alerting them so he's not assed out when they arrested him. Makes sense seeing the other guy had literally everything seized and couldn't do anything until they got a go fund me.


If you have everything frozen or seized after arrest you pretty much have no chance even if they have a shotty case.


We can say screw the atf or government but they can pretty easily destroy your life unscathed even if you beat the charges. He has a audience and hS a chance but when they knock on a nobody's door like most of us it's bad times.

and it doesn't fall into the category of frivolous law suit even though it is total bullshit

Why do we play "F"Troop's (aka BATFE) Game? Our stance should be and always should have been ALL FEDERAL GUN LAWS ARE UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

Has anyone taken the time to read U.S. vs Miller 1939 ? Any reasonable interpretation would lead you to the conclusion that Machine Guns are protected by the 2nd

BATFE were revenuers until the false flag attack on 9/11 now they have dual citizenship with Treasury and Justice. However like all federal alphabet soup agencies they only have jurisdiction in the 10 mile square (DC), forts and magazines (Article I Section 8 Clause 17 of the Constitution) We need to elect State, and County officials that will refuse to grant these alphabet soup criminal agencies permission to operate within the State and County borders. States need to re-assert sovereignty over their borders.

I know easier said then done

Actually, one or two of the keycard versions sold on their website were oversized and had a cutout for it to be used as a bottle opener.  Some cards were solid and some had the interior holes cut out and were shown with a pen through the larger hole holding them upright.  Either way they were sold as novelty items/conversation pieces.

ATF can lick my hole

Now that ammo is so cheap...everyone needs a machine gun...HaHaHa!

I expect to see more Waco and Ruby Ridge like events happening if they continue down this path in the coming months.

That's exactly what they want.

Licensing Liberty

Meanwhile, they will make arrests and prosecute anyway.  And judges will rule in the government's favor because they won't let a mean old gun owner go free.  And it never gets appealed all the way to SCOTUS because the victim of their prosecution can't afford the legal bills.  

And if they did, SCOTUS will refuse to hear it because they know they would have to rule in favor of the constitution, which plainly goes against all this bullshit.  So they won't hear it because they don't want the government to lose.

Just explain that the coat hangers are for possible future abortions if Planned Parenthood loses funding due to mean ol' republicans, and boom, you're off the hook.

Unlike the fetus.

FATF  This shit is pure unadulterated tyranny.  I've watched that guys videos many times, he's weird but okay.
Seems the Doomsday clock is seconds away from midnight, and I don't mean the nuclear war fearmongering BS.

So apparently he's out of jail now:



But I did notice something interesting.  His wife put up a GoFundMe page when this happened with a goal of $50K.  After a couple days, it hit that mark.  So she upped it to $100K.  Well, it's at $99K right now and guess what the "goal" is now?  It's $500K now.  

Well that poster is a statist so...

I dunno. This happened before they inevitably became woke and PC, like the whole Federal .gov:



Not sure they would fare better today.

A few dead fascists is exactly what leadership wants.  It justifies even harsher measures, more laws, etc.

Legal, traveling to, staying in Florida and the loss of income does not come cheap on this. He only hope that the case moves fast and the charges get dismissed.

Understood, but that's a quick progression to a goal of asking people to donate a half-million dollars.  At what point does it turn from a "we estimate we'll need X amount to defend" to just keeping an open hand out?  You don't think that asking for $500,000 is a bit...  much?

I guess I'm in trouble now for posting this .  Just think of the fire power this thing has . I'm not sure if this is a NFA weapon or not.  It's relatively quiet.

Form 4 ...One impulse mono wave phased modulated laser blaster




Or we just call it informational  GUN PORN

Matt did a video when the Auto Key dude got arrested. He did a general break down of the cost just for the legal defense before getting into the courtroom. The general focus at that time was just trying to get a good lawyer to argue for the dude in jail and nothing else was setup for that gofund me event. But his general summation was that. The auto key card dude was going to be left to rot in jail for two years. So in that two years, his family and him would be broken by the government without going ro trial.

FATF

Maybe that is why so few hardware stores still sell shotguns, and/or rifles, they had to choose between the guns or the hacksaws.....
Attached File

So force their hand...

He’s fighting the unlimited budget of the federal government.  They have the ability to wear a person down to the point that they have no choice but to capitulate.  I’m glad he has a large war chest to fight back.

Pretty much my take-away from the Kyle case. Where would he be now if not for the national attention and the donations? My answer: in prison for life.

You can tell almost no one read the PDF as I haven't seen any mention of Louis Vuitton purse as payment

AKCs are not a "part" any more than a coat hanger is. Both need to be fashioned into something that can be used in a rifle.

There is a guy on Northeastshooters who made an AK receiver flat out of a shovel and built it into a rifle. Same thing here, it's not a rifle until it is. It isn't a DIAS until it is.

"Interpretation" is ATF newspeak for very far reaching inclusion of items that clearly do not meet the statutory definitions of what ATF claims they are.



And in doing so, would be manufacturing the part ATF claims the cards to be.

Thanks for your comments in this thread though, they have made it abundantly clear why you are here.

In for $87.  

Hit this!  

maybe, but given how much it might cost an individual, vs the ATF which has a nearly unlimited prosecutorial budget...
Remember, those jackasses can drag it out for months or years, all the while his income is curtailed, his life is on hold, and the proverbial "Sword of Damocles" is hanging over his head, waiting for him to run out of money to pay the lawyer on retainer, or people to forget about him...

That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if any left over went into a legal defense fund for others wrongfully persecuted by the AFT in similar circumstances.

its the Gummament...unless the judge goes along with it [oh and hes gummament too, so good luck], you ain't forcing crap.

2 years isn't a speedy trial... he should already know his defense, make the ATF work, if they decided to charge they should be ready to go to trial not go on a fishing trip.

Interesting point on Fed overreach

We’ve all heard the muh Chevron crap

But didn’t the FAFT get transferred to be under DOJ during Bush admin

Key to this is. Now FAFT has ZERO ability to create rules for anything that falls under NFA as that is a Title 26 taxation statute

Just caught that while reading about Chevron and the USSC tests for it

https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/chevron_deference

My comments in bold below

Chevron Deference
Primary tabs
One of the most important principles in administrative law, The “Chevron Deference” is a term coined after a landmark case, Chevron U.S.A., Inc. v. Natural Resources Defense Council, Inc., 468 U.S. 837 (1984), referring to the doctrine of judicial deference given to administrative actions.

In Chevron, the Supreme Court set forth a legal test as to when the court should defer to the agency’s answer or interpretation, holding that such judicial deference is appropriate where the agency’s answer was not unreasonable, so long as the Congress had not spoken directly to the precise issue at question.  (Congress has spoken to the exact issue of what is and is not a machine gun when they created the definition in title 26)

The scope of the Chevron deference doctrine is that when a legislative delegation to an administrative agency on a particular issue or question is not explicit but rather implicit, a court may not substitute its own interpretation of the statute for a reasonable interpretation made by the administrative agency.  
(The agency congress authorized to administer NFA was the IRS, NOT the AFT. Which would be the same a a local sheriff just deciding to make up laws the enforce them cause he wanted to, can’t be done not without legislative authority to create a law)

Rather, as Justice Stevens wrote in Chevron, when the statute is silent or ambiguous with respect to the specific issue, the question for the court is whether the agency’s action was based on a permissible construction of the statute.(the actions have not been made by the IRS, which is the agenda congress authorized to deal with NFA)

The Chevron deference first requires that the administrative interpretation in question was issued by the agency charged with administering that statute being construed.  

Accordingly, interpretations by agencies not in charge of that statute in question are not owed any judicial deference.  Also, the implicit delegation of authority to an administrative agency to interpret a statute does not extend to the agency’s interpretation of its own jurisdiction under that statute.( interpretation by AFT is not allowed on two fronts. One IRS is the agency of authority. Two AFT interpretations do in fact wind up being interpretation of AFT jurisdiction)

Generally, to be accorded Chevron deference, the agency’s interpretation of an ambiguous statute must be permissible, which the court has defined to mean “rational” or “reasonable.” In determining the reasonableness of a particular construction of a statute by the agency, the age of that administrative interpretation as well as the congressional action or inaction in response to that interpretation at issue can be a useful guide, if the Congress was aware of the interpretation when it acted or refrained from action, and when the agency’s interpretation is not inconsistent with the clear statutory language.

In subsequent cases, the Supreme Court has narrowed the scope of Chevron deference, holding that only the agency interpretations reached through formal proceedings with the force of law, such as adjudications, or notice-and-comment rulemaking, qualify for Chevron deference, while those contained in opinion letters, policy statements, agency manuals, or other formats that do not carry the force of law are not warranted a Chevron deference.  In such cases, the Court may give a slightly less deferential treatment to the agency’s interpretation, giving a persuasive value under the Court’s “Skidmore deference” analysis. (the italic underlined in the last paragraph is a paramount thing in the Rare Breed Trigger and Bump Stock cases. None of those actions by AFT carry any weight of law as stated above)

@NoloContendere this may be a helpful thing for you guys that kick the feds in the nuts in courts

If he plans on taking it all the way to trial, 500k may not be that far out of the ballpark. Defending felony level cases in Federal court is expensive, especially when DOJ can throw as many attorneys, paralegals, and 1811s at a case as they need to.

Yeah if you have to go through all that I'd say one should be able to file a lawsuit and people get fired if they don't have a legitimate case. Should not be able to ruin your life that easily without the possibility for penalties.





I feel bad for him and he's lucky he has support unlike most people in similar situations but I wouldn't put it past him to capitalize on this entire thing. Probably better than the alternative of letting him hang in the long run.